Slashdot Mirror
Where Does a Geek Find a Social Life?
JustShootMe writes "I have a question for my fellow Slashdotters, and yes, I realize I am entering the lion's den covered in tasty meat-flavored sauce. I have never been a very social person, preferring to throw myself into technology; therefore, I've been spectacularly unsuccessful in developing any meaningful interpersonal relationships. Lately I have begun to feel that this situation is not tenable, and I would like to fix it. But I really don't know how and haven't the faintest idea where to start. I know that I am in the minority and that there are many different kinds of Slashdot readers, most of whom have more experience in this realm than I do. So please tell me: how, and more importantly, where do you meet fellow geeks — preferably including some of the opposite gender — in meatspace?"
don't call it meatspace, it freaks out the normal people.
Take up an outdoor sport.
If you can find something that you like to do you will meet other people who like the same thing and friendships will develop. I met a future girlfriend while mountain biking...
And as you tread the halls of sanity, You feel so glad to be, Unable to go beyond. I have a message, From another time..
Some ideas:
If you're unafraid of your klutziness, join a dance troupe. Or a theatre group. You'd be surprised; most such organizations desperately need someone to do lighting and such, and are woefully ignorant of basics. So if you can wire a lightswitch, can follow a script, you can be a stagehand or a technical director.
Volunteer for trail building. OK, this only works if you're an outdoor person, but that's where the sort of women I like hang out. You can build a trail in a local park, get to work next to some really good looking women, and perhaps have something to talk about - especially if you can keep your mouth shut and listen to eco babble about salmon runs and invasive species.
Or....
Anyway, find an activity that's not a dating meatmarket. Someplace where your social awkwardness (if such exists) is irrelevant, where you're working toward a common goal, and pretty soon you'll find some fellow tree planter or trail builder or invasive-species puller is asking you to come out next weekend to do something else.
The whole idea is that if you set out to find "fellow geeks" you'll end up in a room full of guys with stilted conversations about geek stuff. If you set out to do something different, and are honest and accepting and funny about your ineptitude, you will meet some really cool people.
The need is huge, the hands very limited, and the job has awesome fringe benefits: you like the person in the mirror and you work with some people who are willing to stop yakking long enough to actually help people.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
This is one of those things that a nerd can't ask normal people and get an answer worth two cents.
Ask a normal person how to be social and they'll list a million things that the nerd can't do/doesn't understand/won't get the nerve to go through with. Ask a slashdotter, and while the advice may not be so great, at least the nerd should be capable of doing it.
I agree with the OP, dance class is a great way to meet women an keep fit, I also noticed in your question you asked "where do you meet fellow geeks", I think what you should be asking is "where do you meet people".
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
It doesn't matter where you go, or what you do. Just start talking, and when it feels awkward, and people give weird feedback, don't take it personally, move on, and try again. After a while, you'll be person of character, and able to interact meaningfully with everyone.
I see your point, but it's just how I talk. I did not spend any particular time or effort making that up. At one point I tried to simplify my talking and it just ended up being condescending.
Some things you have to change, they're not important to who you are, other things are important and you should keep.
Classic geek example, geeks can sometimes ignore personal hygiene as unimportant or at least unimportant compared to the obsession of the moment. Being filthy hopefully isn't a core interest. That's the sort of thing you do something about. If you are intellectual, you may hold back on the geekiness when interacting with people at work, you don't strike up a conversation about the latest Linux distro, you don't insult people for liking pop television. But if you're interested in someone, feigning stupidity or feigning interest in things you cannot stand is lying to her and lying to yourself. That's not something to compromise on.
You said you're looking for a geek girl so at least you're not making the mistake of wanting the cheerleader when you have nothing in common with the cheerleader.
You have the right idea that you need to increase social interactions and increase contact in the right circles. The question is where and how. Some people live in good cities for this kind of thing, others don't. If you can surround yourself with like-minded people or simply compatible people, the law of averages says you should meet someone.
The thing to remember is you can't win them all. Not everyone will like you. But it's good to develop faking skills as a social lubrication. The jerk you have to work with on a project, learn to fake enjoyment or at least suppress your disgust, it'll make life easier, not rocking the boat. It only makes you a jerk if you do this sort of thing to ingratiate yourself to someone to get something out of them.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
Doesn't matter. Ladies will appreciate that you're making an effort and the fact that you're clueless makes you harmless (i.e. approachable and not-a-threat should you approach them). As long as you don't get embarrassed and act confident and persistent while stumbling forward, it can actually work in your favor. Some nice girl may even offer to help out as long as you're not just cursing yourself and getting frustrated.
Worth a try no matter what. Better to strike out than be the ball boy stuck polishing the bat.
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
Three Words: Jon Fucking Katz.
In other words, it was always this lame. The signal to noise ratio may have dipped slightly, the interface has gotten shittier, and many of us have gotten older and more crotchety, but it was never as cerebral as people like to remember it. Even now, the level of discourse here is quite a bit above most sites that allow comments. The only thing that's really sunk significantly is the quality of the trolls.
Actually, you're probably best off finding friends at a LARP club or a game club of some kind. There are just too many types of geek who will be interested in computing and so any attempt to find friends/relationships amongst Linux geeks will be futile. Too large a collection of too many utterly divergent personalities.
No, you need to find a way to isolate a much, much smaller pool of geeks, ones who share multiple interests in common with you, and the only way to do that is to find groups that share your interests.
(Looking online very, very rarely works, mostly because online spaces allow people to be totally dishonest. If there's no honest representation, you cannot find people by presupposing they are being honest.)
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
I've met quite a few gorgeous women in "non-geek" settings. They love that I'm smart and quirky, and I make a great living. It sells itself. Just be confident and find things you like to do socially, and the rest will work itself out.
I think the most important tip everyone seems to give here is to get out and about. No women likes a couch potato, even geek girls like to go out and show off their tail feathers. Besides, they gotta show you off and impress other women. Think of yourself like a Gucci bag. A cock shaped Gucci bag that knows complex mathematics and earns a paycheck.
That sounds like a bad idea. Not so much the dance classes, but actually meeting someone there. If you can't talk to chick drunk in a bar, no way you're going to strike up a conversation during dance lessons that will work out for you.
Here's what worked for me: find a cause, and volunteer. I got involved with Special Olympics, myself. Plenty of volunteer opportunities, and lots of rewards regardless of whether you meet anyone or not (but - you will). Just find something you can support. Local animal shelters are always looking for help. You can find soup kitchens and food banks, too, if you're into that, but less prospects for decent social interaction. Lots of community organizations get involved with fundraisers that involve beer trucks and bands - lots of opportunities there.
"Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
--- Jerry Garcia
Even now, the level of discourse here is quite a bit above most sites that allow comments. The only thing that's really sunk significantly is the quality of the trolls.
The level of discourse is what keeps people coming back. Sometimes I just want to read a good debate. Is there a better place?
As for the trolls, they keep me laughing, too.
Well, the one "skill" most people neglect to mention is simply approaching women and asking them out. I'm not saying you should be an ass and hit on every girl you see, but if you respectfully ask if they'd like to go out sometime they'll either be flattered and decline or say yes. You'll get rejected less often if you're honest about who you are and look for someone like yourself. Are you an overweight nerd that's into renaissance fairs? Walk up to the next chubby girl you meet at the fair and ask it she'd like to split a turkey leg.
There's a world of socially awkward women desperate for someone to show some interest in them. Be confident, don't fear rejection, and make the women that show interest in you feel desirable and attractive.
You're onto something there, but I think the bike doesn't have everything to do with it - your best advice is in your later steps.
The things women most dislike about geeks is there lack of personal style/confidence - in the "selection" code of human behaviour, these latter traits speak volumes about class/earning potential. Yes, some may argue that this is a trend that should have been left in the stone ages, but unfortunately we're still clinging to many of our old methods as we head into more intellectual climes.
I've been an IT guy since around a year and a half now, taking a break from a photography career of twenty years, and I can say as far as my social life goes, my style habits saved me. My present work doesn't interest my "usual" entourage at all (save for my closest friends), so I've had to turn to other networks for social - er - development. I've found that most people don't ~care~ what trade you do after you make it past the "first impression" stage.
So, yeah, definitely get into taking care of your "look" - as long as do it seriously, for you, with passion, it may at least give you a foot in the door.
No, no sig. Really.
ThePromenader
It's amazing how much of this thread is about action, and how little about traction. The Seligman video I watching this morning on TED discusses how psychiatry is devoted to getting people from -infinity (suicidal) to zero (empty, but not distressed); there hasn't been much study about how to get people from zero to something better.
A lot of the advice here is from the -infinity to zero camp: having none to having some. You could end up with someone you're not very well suited to, who doesn't really see you for who you are (see the "mold like putty" post), and with few emotional skills to make a relationship last more than three months.
Women have finely tuned sensors about men who are posing for effect. If a woman doesn't have this skill, she's nothing but trouble herself.
90% of success in relationships comes from listening skills, mostly of the non-verbal variety. The safest place to start an intimate conversation with a women you don't know very well is about her relationships: family members or close friends. If you have the knack of non-verbal communication, you'll pick up many small clues from body language during the rambling chit-chat. Note that most women tend to be peace-makers at heart, so if a chick is rambling endlessly about a relationship and your head is starting to spin from all the mindless detail (e.g. dress colour selection as a bridesmaid) there is usually some relationship tension hiding in there.
The next step is to engage the emotional clues you're getting with your own emotional content. It's hard to ask sensitive questions if you sound like you're filling out an insurance claim form. It works better to go "I was listening to you the other day and I started to get this feeling, so I started to wonder if there was more to your story." The first five words will catch most women off guard, the rest of it is fairly non-directive, and the woman will regard it as a small trophy that you, as a man, admit to having emotional responses. She'll want to affirm your bravery by telling more of the story.
Even if I pose this as a bit of gambit, you're best off being completely authentic. Note that this is hard, delicate work. Inauthenticity is a kind of lie, and lies become hard to remember.
If you're not insulting with your content, don't be too afraid of occasional conflict. Women tend to seek resolution, so you're almost certain to be given a chance to redeem yourself. At this point, be gentle, but act like you have a backbone. As much as women will try to mold you, they get cranky if they have too much success at this. At the end of the day, you can't rely on putty.
Women tend to be more straightforward about their emotions with their close friends than their romantic partners. Another detail it is important to bear in mind is that women experience the same range of emotions as men, including dark emotions of anger and hostility, but they tend to dress it up differently, and the rules are complicated about when this can be openly discussed (with some women, never, but these are not choice companions).
No matter how good you become with your communication skills, your biology is down there shuffling the deck, making things at the surface confusing as hell. Women tend to assume that if you're not confused by your emotions at some point, you aren't fully invested. A little bit of volatility proves you're alive. So don't be afraid once in a while to venture off script.
In the long run your sanity will be much improved if you reach the state of being where you can say "vive la différence" about all this heartache and really mean it.
The number one predictor of a successful romance is shared value systems, and the number one predictor of a successful long term relationship is emotional engagement. Eventually, even great sex becomes a matter of psychology and emotion, and for that, you need to find something in yourself worth sharing.
I just want to ask: when did dark and brooding (also known as the "David Boreanaz douchebag look") become the ultimate in cool? What happened to bright and righteous?
Oh, wait, Christianity. Never mind.
Go to a dance instructor. You've got the money. Pay for lessons. Then go to group dance lessons. Meet people there and then get groups going to dance clubs.
All your problems will disappear.
I have to confirm that this is a really good idea. As the very least you will learn to be comfortable around girls. *Attractive* girls, since this is the kind of girls that mostly go to the dancing lessons. Most unattractive girls are to shy to do that. This ability alone can help you dramatically. There is a downside, though: most of the girls will be married or in the LTR, because... well, first because all attractive girls are :) You have to learn to ignore that. Second, because were they not married they wouldn't be hanging out on dancing lessons, they would go some place where they can meet single men.
Also, you have to hang out with guys too, make a lot of new male friends. When you do that, follow the most valuable advice of social life I ever got in my life: say "yes" to every invitation. In a matter of weeks, you'll be choosing, which girl to hang out with.
May Peace Prevail On Earth
And besides that, its kind of stupid to try to find yourself a geek girlfriend. It may sound nice first, but your world viewing will be really limited and she will be just another nerdy thing there. I have a girlfriend that isn't really that nerdy at all, and shes dragged me to places I wouldn't otherwise go, but its always been fun in the end then and I get to see totally new aspect of life, not just the computer and internet. People need a push to do something different, and thats the perfect and most fun push. So dont again limit your activies to the nerdy stuff.
Now the thing isn't at all about what you do or what you're interested in. You just have to make it sound *interesting* and *create your personal style* that will stand you off from the group. That's the most critical part that most geeks dont see. They just try to act "normal" and end up looking shy and non-interesting. Most girls dont want "just another normal guy". Cocky but fun stories or talking works great btw, I landed my own gf by asking her questions noone else dared to ask and told her stuff noone else woulnd't dare to tell, but in a funny and laughting way. It also makes you interesting and creates attraction, and in the end way more open relationship aswell.
Non-geeky girls also tend to be a bit cuter and better looking too ;) (sorry slashdot girls, you're sexy tho!)
I cannot agree more. LEARN TO DANCE, and have fun at it. You don't need a partner to take lessons, but you may enjoy group classes.
1) Many are beginners, just like you.
2) It can be a real challenge, if (like me) you feel like you have no sense of rhythm.
3) As you learn, you will get more confident.
Later on, you will be able to be at ANY party, any formal gathering, any wedding, company dinner, or WHATEVER, and be able to dance. You will hear a waltz, a tango, some swing, or the like, and be able to ask a lady to dance with you -- and KNOW that you know the dance. You will be able to lead, and probably dance better than anyone else at the party (because how many guys takes dance lessons??) Think of it like DDR, but the way you increase your score is by making your partner look awesome.
Having the confidence to know that you rock at something can let you feel much less intimidated. Just as presenting about your awesome code or awesome geeky accomplishment isn't so hard, you can similarly be willing to talk or demonstrate about dance. It's quite cool. I wish I had actually taken more lessons than the ones before my wedding. ;)
Amen. First step is for the poor guy to stop calling himself a geek and seeing it as some sort of badge of identity. Treat people as people and why on Earth does he think he has to find someone who labels themselves according to some stereotype. Sharing some interests is fine. But the main things is you get on and fill the roles in each others lives that you both want to. You meet girls the same way anyone else on the planet does. You go out, you try to be fun and you mix with people until you find someone you like and who likes you. There is no special rule for people who... well, whatever the definition of "geek" is because I certainly don't know what the definition is
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
Eric Raymond's essay's are very informative, but this 'dating' business somewhere down the middle is where his agenda really shows up. What's all this nonsense about polyamory that strewn in the middle like some kind of enlightening testimony? Does he not realize that he is giving advice to try something most people consider absolutely disgusting?
One of the well-spoken skanks he supposedly interviewed is quoted to say that both partners have to 'work even harder' in a polyamorous relationship. Yeah, no shit. Emotional dis-attachment requires extra work to pretend everything is OK? Wow, I'm sure we couldn't have figured that out on our own. And then she goes on to say that the pale, uninitiated geek like the one who posted this slashdot story, is supposed to try 'sexual relationships' to appreciate the difference between them and romantic relationships. Wow. Live, human subjects. You're supposed to degrade yourself to a lesser primate and do unspeakable things in order to educate yourself?
What a load of bull. These people, these outspoken veterans of the 'educated sex' scene, rarely lead happy lives with a partner. They hide themselves from society because they know they're plain weird, and they present their views online as if they are humanity's guiding light for successful relationships. The only truly content people practicing polyamory for any extended period have one thing in common: they SHUT UP about it, and they will tell you they do NOT recommend it to anyone at all. Normal relationships are a friggin pain in the ass, and these clowns are recommending that you go around screwing different people based on sexual desire and communal love, as long as you sit down and plan everything like some sort of big hiking trip?
I do not mean to be overly negative, but I have lived all over the world, in different cultures and among different races, and I love science. People who talk like this man are an insult to science, because they have no idea what they are saying. Who said jealousy was something to be overcome? It is to be controlled, not overcome. It evolved in the most basic animals for a reason, you know. I don't understand why the sexual urge is something to be encouraged while the other things we evolved to keep it in check should be taken out of the picture. If you want to sleep around, science is not going to make you look prettier. The feelings we have we ALL evolved, and are all useful, not just the ones you want to partake in. Our society is barely in one piece already you crazy idiots.
How can you look your partner in the eye and tell them you love them when she knows you may or may not have been trying to pick up her best friend, because you've both 'agreed' to it? How could she bury herself in your arms when tomorrow you could be in the arms of a complete stranger whose name you might not even know? How can a man trust a woman with his home and his children when she can be spreading her legs to pretty much anyone the very same day, because hey, you're both signing that contract? Sex is the urge to reproduce, and it is nothing else.
It is the urge to love and be loved that is very elaborate, and beautiful, and strange, and not necessarily linked to the reproductive cycle. Things that sound scientific and modern are not necessarily less disgusting than those that expose themselves to the barbarity of what they are in less elaborate terms. When you spread your legs, you are spreading your legs. When you bust a load, you bust a load. Sugar coating the terminology does not make it any more elegant or sophisticated.
Finally, before I quit the tirade for the night, I'd like to say that the most successful and most long lasting relationships across the world are the product of chance, just like the 'engineered' ones. You meet someone on the metro, or at school or at work or in the street. You think it will make a difference if you sleep with them first, or if you date for years, or you marry just 2 weeks later.. life experiences will show you it rarely matters. The 'primiti
Unless of course you can't stand bars. Ihave been in only one where it was any fun most bars are boring unless you are talkative. If you don't care about talking to random strangers then bars are useless. You haveto do something to waitfor thehours that women actually show up that aren't taken
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
Yeah. And the problem with this is the girls you find in bars is that they are the kind of girls you find in bars.
Hoist Number One and Number Six.
Most women who go to bars are there to socialize with their friends, not to get picked up. The ones who go there to get picked up by strangers are not the kind you can build a long-term, meaningful relationship with.
Women expect to get hit on in bars, so their defenses are completely up.
A perfect example of using a geek-oriented online network to establish contact with a woman. Well done ;-)