Slashdot Mirror


China Bans Gold Farming

InformationWeek is reporting that the Chinese government has declared a ban on the sale of virtual goods for real currency. This move is poised to shut down a several billion yuan a year business that has been growing by leaps and bounds every year. "The trading of virtual currency for real cash employs hundreds of thousands of people worldwide and generates between $200 million and $1 billion annually, according to a 2008 survey conducted by Richard Heeks at the University of Manchester. He estimates that between 80% and 85% of gold farmers are based in China. [...] Game companies typically forbid gold farming but committed virtual currency traders find ways around such rules. Some game companies have recognized the futility of trying to ban the practice and have built virtual commerce into their game infrastructure."

26 of 293 comments (clear)

  1. Hundred Millions or Hundred Thousands? by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Informative

    The trading of virtual currency for real cash employs hundreds of thousands of people worldwide and generates between $200 million and $1 billion annually, according to a 2008 survey conducted by Richard Heeks at the University of Manchester. He estimates that between 80% and 85% of gold farmers are based in China.

    Dear god! Eight tenths of one billion dollars is a lot of cash!

    The Chinese government estimates that trade in virtual currency exceeded several billion yuan last year, a figure that it claims has been growing at a rate of 20% annually. One billion yuan is currently equal to about $146,000.

    So what is it, hundreds of millions or hundreds of thousands? Because one is a nice chunk of change while the other is, across China's population, laughable.

    These numbers just aren't adding up here. There seems to be a large disparity between what the Chinese government reports and what Heeks' study finds. It's entirely possible that Heeks' is stretching stats to make his research sound more important and news worthy. It's also possible China is understating the impact their ban will have so they can "cure you of your illnesses." The reality is probably both a little of column A and a little of column B.

    Some game companies have recognized the futility of trying to ban the practice and have built virtual commerce into their game infrastructure.

    And now China will realize that futility. One would think that China would enjoy the tax on those who report this income but now it's just going to all go under-the-table. Hell, I'd say tax it but I'm certain China wants to look like the caring government attempting to heal the afflicted youth.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Hundred Millions or Hundred Thousands? by Hojima · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Personally, I'm quite happy when oppressive people with power tighten their grip. It follows the law of tension: the harder it's wound, the more likely it is to snap. Organizations such as companies that bully, to massive governments, make stupid decisions to maintain and ascertain their power, when all they do is jeopardize it more. I can't wait till they make a huge mistake on civil liberties and practically give their citizens no choice but to revolt.

    2. Re:Hundred Millions or Hundred Thousands? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      The numbers aren't adding up because the exchange rate for Chinese currency to U.S. Dollars is incorrect and the author dropped some zeroes. One Dollar is equal to ~7 Renminbi, so one billion Renminbi should be $146,000,000.

    3. Re:Hundred Millions or Hundred Thousands? by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Personally, I'm quite happy when oppressive people with power tighten their grip. It follows the law of tension: the harder it's wound, the more likely it is to snap.

      Normally I would agree with you. But as a kid I watched tanks clear a square in China. As a result of this, the Red Cross would later report twenty five hundred people dead with seven to ten thousand wounded. The same government that dealt with those protests in that way is still in power today, twenty years later.

      If that didn't do it, I don't see banning gold farming and regulating the internet doing it. The Chinese government is a new kind of oppression that has survived many attempts to move in the opposite direction. It must be a decision made simultaneously by billions of people to change this. If you're sitting their waiting for that tension to snap, you may be waiting a lot longer than you think.

      --
      My work here is dung.
    4. Re:Hundred Millions or Hundred Thousands? by sakdoctor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Get with the time. Now there is a massive Chinese middle class that have more than enough food, and are trying to figure out what to spend their money on.

      http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8113149.stm

    5. Re:Hundred Millions or Hundred Thousands? by fizzup · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I was having breakfast in Idaho City, Idaho around the time the Chinese government put down the Tianenmen Square protests. I overheard a guy at a nearby table say, "This wouldn't have happened if the Chinese were armed, I tell ya." I nearly laughed out loud, but I took a moment to really think about what he said. For the first time in my life, I understood the Second Amendment to the US Constitution.

      The First Amendment is the first line of defense; the Second Amendment is the last.

    6. Re:Hundred Millions or Hundred Thousands? by JoeMerchant · · Score: 4, Funny

      Only on /. would a story about gold farming lead directly to conclusions of imminent cultural revolt and overthrow of authority.

    7. Re:Hundred Millions or Hundred Thousands? by gad_zuki! · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Guns didnt help Jews, Poles, Gypsies, in WWII. An AK in every home didnt stop Sadaam from oppressing his own people. Its funny how people think a handgun or rifle works against a mechanized division.

    8. Re:Hundred Millions or Hundred Thousands? by Achoi77 · · Score: 5, Funny


      Rebel Farmer: The more you tighten your' grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your' fingers

      Chinese Govt: Not after we demonstrate the power of this station. In a way, you have determined the choice of the planet that will be destroyed first. Since you are reluctant to provide us with the location of the rebel base, I have chosen to test this station's destructive power on the World of Warcraft.

      Rebel Farmer: No! Warcraft is peaceful, we have no weapons you can't possibly-

      Chinese Govt: You will provide another target - a military target? The name the system! I grow tired of asking this, so it will be the last time. Where is the rebel base?

      Rebel Farmer: ...Runescape. They're on Runescape.

      Chinese Govt: There! You see Lord British she can be reasonable. Continue with the operation, you may fire when ready.

      Rebel Farmer: WHAT?!

      Chinese Govt: You're far too trusting. Runescape is too remote to make an effective demonstration but don't worry - we will deal with your rebel friends soon enough.

      Rebel Farmer: noo..

    9. Re:Hundred Millions or Hundred Thousands? by dan_sdot · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Hitler's first move was to confiscate firearms from the Jews. Here is something I just googled up on the subject: http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/article-nazilaw.pdf

      The first step of every modern tyrant is to confiscate firearms. (Note, this is not to say that everyone who wants to confiscate weapons is a tyrant). Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Castro, etc.

      The point is not that a guy with a handgun is going to stop a tank. There are 2 points to make:

      1) A crowd the size of the protests currently happening in Iran actually is something to be feared if they are armed.

      2) A complete reliance on the state for one's protection creates a complacency and an orwellian love for "big brother". This point is more subtle than the first, but the more I study the issue, the more I realize how important it is. If a person is forced to rely entirely on the state (usually a police force) for his/her protection, this is not a good thing. Responsible gun ownership reminds one that even though good police protection is a wonderful thing, if there were no police, one would still be able to get along with one's life. This autonomy from the state is a good thing.

    10. Re:Hundred Millions or Hundred Thousands? by DrgnDancer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I already mention the reluctance of the soldiers as one of the main factors keeping us safe. We're assuming that went away somehow in the "military kills protesters" scenario.

      You're going to get all those 200+ million armed civilians in one place supporting the protest? How are they all armed?

      Yes, if the military turned against us and EVERY SINGLE CITIZEN who is not otherwise a soldier took up arms in the defense of liberty and ALL of them could competently use their weapons (which you're assuming all of them have, in fact most people I know don't own a gun) they could certainly have a good chance against even our military. You'd have the support of at best a small percentage of the population (many would support the government even in the face of Draconian policies, hoping to be in the elite; more would be too scared; more still would be apathetic as long as American Idol continued to play; etc). Of those a fraction (maybe a large fraction, given the type of people you're talking about, but still a fraction) would actually HAVE guns, and a much smaller fraction would have any training in using them. Of the guns available to you most would be hand guns or hunting rifles, the first are all but useless against even body armor, let alone vehicles, the second only useful in the hands of real marksmen.

      Then there's the lack of training and fire discipline. Unless your 'troops' are former police or military themselves, they've never fired guns as part of a formation. This means that they are quite as likely to shoot each other as they are to shoot the soldiers that they are supposed to be aiming at. Cops and soldiers spend all that time training for a reason. It's because it is really hard to shoot, move and communicate in a group without lots and lots of practice.

      I said it above and I'll say it again, what keeps us safe is the rule of law and respect the military has for the rule of law; not the second amendment. That, at best, keeps you safe from muggers and home invaders.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    11. Re:Hundred Millions or Hundred Thousands? by gad_zuki! · · Score: 5, Informative

      >I already mention the reluctance of the soldiers as one of the main factors keeping us safe. We're assuming that went away somehow in the "military kills protesters" scenario.

      No we are not assuming, we saw it at Kent State.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

    12. Re:Hundred Millions or Hundred Thousands? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 4, Informative

      Indeed practically nothing short of another tank can stop a tank.

      That's patently wrong. Things like RPGs are still quite effective, even against modern tanks. Yes, there are countermeasures, but they can be defeated, too.

      A good example of how vulnerable tanks actually are against infantry is the first Battle of Grozny. Chechen fighters had set up people with RPGs in basements along the main routes which Russian tank columns used to advance towards the city center. They would wait till the column is entirely within reach, and then 4-5 people would hit the first tank in the column, and the same number for the last - thus virtually guaranteeing that tanks would be disabled at the very least, trapping the rest of the column - which would then be destroyed methodically in a similar fashion. And basements were used over roofs because tank gun simply cannot depress low enough to make an aimed shot into a basement.

      Two things to keep in mind: it's much easier to increase armor penetration than it is to increase armor strength (mostly because you have to increase armor strength along the entire surface of the tank, while e.g. a shaped charge only has to punch through a specific point). And also, tanks have very limited visibility and maneuverability in urban environment, especially compared to infantry.

      This sort of thing is why, in modern urban warfare, tanks are always supported by infantry, which defends them against enemy anti-tank infantry.

    13. Re:Hundred Millions or Hundred Thousands? by cskrat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm sorry but all your talk of military formations and heavy weaponry suggest a level of open war that does not sit well with your talk of civilian apathy.

      As for the distribution of civilian weaponry. The fact that not everyone is armed is made irrelevant by the fact that anyone could be. Hunting riffles are, with the right ammunition, capable of piercing body armor. Further, hunting riffles are often owned by people that hunt and can hit a moving target from a respectable distance. The civilian snipers will be defending and therefore have the terrain advantage. Given the wide variety of terrain types in this country, (compare Montana, Oregon, Nebraska, Florida, Virginia) local terrain knowledge will be enough of an advantage to nearly offset the disadvantage in training and equipment.

      I have no doubt that civilian casualties will be higher than military casualties. But if the US military ever turned on the general population, the result would make the Vietnam War seem like a grade school shouting match.

      --
      My God! It's full of eval()'s.
  2. Re:China seems to want to enhance its image... by Spy+Handler · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It would not be a pleasant job, even if you got the same wage you do now. Your bosses will constantly be pushing you to maximize your per hourly gold yield. And most likely you would be running several computers at once and using various hacks, working like a dog. Any semblance of it being a fun game would be completely gone, replaced by simple drudgery.

    I'd rather do straight data entry typing than be a gold farmer...

  3. But will they ENFORCE this? by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If this is just another instance where the farmers just have to bribe the cops to look the other way, this "ban" will amount to nothing more than a PR stunt.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  4. There is always India by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And suddenly thousands of Indian techies have opened Warcraft accounts.

    --
    It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
  5. Why? I don't get it... by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's not illegal to make Gold.
    It's not illegal to Give Gold.
    It's not illegal to Give real Money to someone else.

    But somewhere along the way, selling Gold online becomes illegal. Wheras stating the transaction as a two-way donation easily bypasses the law.

    Also - the big question - why would this become illegal? People do what they want with their money. If Blizzard was smart - they'd offer Gold at a price matching the market and get a cut on this. They've already ruined WoW four times over. Anyone who's played since the beginning can tell you how much more enjoyable it used to be.

    Gold farmers also increase the amount of subscriptions that the game has, more money going into the developers... I don't get why they fight it so much.

    To me - its the worst business logic I've ever come across, and games that have these microtransactions already involved will be the ones who come out on top.

    1. Re:Why? I don't get it... by rainmaestro · · Score: 5, Funny

      This reminds me of the old Carlin skit on prostitution:

      "Selling is legal, ****ing is legal. So why isn't selling ****ing legal?"

  6. Re:China seems to want to enhance its image... by Red+Flayer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Your bosses will constantly be pushing you to maximize your per hourly gold yield.

    My understanding is that most of the gold farmer "workers" work on a quota system. Of course the quota will get moved up depending on possible performance. It's not about maximizing yields, it's about hitting the quota dependably.

    When labor is that cheap, it's probably more effective to hire additional workers than it is to squeeze every last drop out of the ones you have.

    Anecdotally, back when I played MMOs, I was once asked to hold onto some surplus in-game cash for a farmer. He wanted to set it aside so if he had a bad day, he could use it to get over quota and avoid punishment.

    I recall reading an article about this somewhere (Gamasutra?)... the gold farmers didn't want to make too much gold for their bosses, or their coworkers would get mad. Excess earnings in a session were hidden to (1) save for a bad day (2) sell independently for income or (3) play the game themselves. It was a really interesting look inside gold farming at the basest level.

    --
    "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
  7. Re:China seems to want to enhance its image... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is still a hundred times better than working on a farm for a living. Life is hard in rural areas, and making any kind of living outside of farming is a huge step up from what your parents likely did. Even if the work is hard and demanding by our standards, people in the 'first world' live decadent soft lives that don't know what a real lifetime of work would look like if it slapped us in the face.

  8. Re:Why would China do this? by maxume · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One reason might be that building an industry that is entirely reliant on the whims of a foreign company could leave them holding the bag for thousands of idiots who thought they had a job.

    --
    Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  9. Nothing to do with Gaming by kenp2002 · · Score: 5, Informative

    In full disclosure: I work in the financial industry currently.

    This ban has nothing to do with gaming, gambling, or local economy.

    This is likely a direct response to MASSIVE money laundering.

    Joe has $100,000 worth of illicit cash.
    Joe strikes a deal to buy $100,000 worth of virtual currency in WoW. Joe smuggles the money. (Many times Joe can even hire the kid down the street and pay him cash...)

    Joe turns around and over several months sells the gold BACK to the gold farmers and claims the sales as legitimate income. Selling it at a 50% loss he can convert $100,000 into $50,000 of legitimate funds. Even more so when he acts as a virtual broker (IGN anyone?).

    While this is a simplified scenario but we are talking BILLIONS of dollars a year are now going through these kinds of channels.

    I've seen locally here in the US $300,000 attempts and laundering money this way (through a combination of FF Online, LOTRO, and Maple).

    While it is getting easier to deal with this now that the gaming companies are willing to share some data I can only imagine how hard is must be in Asian markets where channeling cash to chinese gold farmers is easier with the shorter phsyical distances. Oddly though, in my experience, I have seen more Korean and Indian gold farmers then Chinese.

    Never had a problem with gold farmers, never will, but I have serious doubts that this ban has anything to do with gameplay.

    I think this is in response to the forged bonds that were intercepted in Italy. They are worried about organized crime shifting large sums of money (which require laundering) through the virtual economy.

    If I am an evil overlord and I have to get 4 billion to my agents around the world the easiest thing to do is buy a billion dollars worth of WoW gold, have all my agents log in with characters. Divvy up the gold then have them sell it off locally or back to the gold farmers at a loss.

    No quicker way to distributed that much real world money then through a network of games.

    --
    -=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
  10. Re:So... by Pollardito · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It might be related to their attempts to limit the time that people spend playing games online. After all it would seem strange to limit people from playing more than 3 hours in their private life, while still allowing people to play 4 times that long at work.

  11. ...it's probably more effective... by jeko · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When labor is that cheap, it's probably more effective to hire additional workers than it is to squeeze every last drop out of the ones you have.

    Spoken like a man who's never had a truly crappy job. Squeezing every last drop out of your workers is its own reward. I knew a restaurant manager once who stole tips off the servers' tables "just to remind everyone who the big dog is." I knew a lawyer who refused to pay his staff a living wage or work them less than 60 hours a week "so they won't have time to go find another job." Hell, even John McCain refused to honor our commitment to pay for our soldier's college expenses because, and I'm paraphrasing correctly, if our soldiers knew they could come home and go to college, no one would want to stay in Iraq.

    Sometimes treating your employees like crap is more about shoring up your own inferiority complex than it is smart business decision. If you haven't experienced it directly, go reread Thomas More and George Orwell to get the gist of it.

    --
    He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
  12. Re:so we are so lazy now by Abcd1234 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We pay the Chinese to do the grunt work so that we can focus on having fun.

    Which just illustrates why these games are b0rked. If people are willing to pay to avoid an integral part of the game, maybe you've done something wrong.