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High Court Allows Remote-Storage DVR System

Immutate and several other readers noted that Cablevision will be allowed to go ahead with deploying a remote-storage DVR system, when the US Supreme Court declined (without comment) to hear an appeal of a lower court ruling that went against movie studios and TV networks. (We discussed this case a few months back.) "Cable TV operators won a key legal battle against Hollywood studios and television networks on Monday as the Supreme Court declined to block a new digital video recording system that could make it even easier for viewers to bypass commercials. The justices declined to hear arguments on whether Cablevision Systems Corp.'s remote-storage DVR system would violate copyright laws. That allows the... company to proceed with plans to start deploying the technology this summer."

25 of 112 comments (clear)

  1. I don't get... by Darkness404 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't understand why cable networks think that we need to pay for their content twice. I mean, I'm already paying for their content via the cable subscription fee so why should I even have ads? Either get rid of the licensing fees or get rid of the ads. This is like paying for a "premium" website only to get hit by pop ups on every page. I mean, I could even understand an ad or two at the start and after the end of the program, but why do they think they need to have 9 minutes of ads for every show when I'm already paying for their content?

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    1. Re:I don't get... by QuantumG · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because they can.

      If a significant number of people quit their service and gave the feedback "there's just too many ads for a pay service" then maybe something would get done about it. But they don't.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    2. Re:I don't get... by Darkness404 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem with that is... cable bundling. Theres about 5 networks I watch regularly, and out of them about 2 have way too many ads that I would give up watching them if I could send feedback. However, if I cancel those networks, I end up canceling the 3 other networks that I do watch.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    3. Re:I don't get... by Starlon · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's how Cable started out -- free of commercials. People got greedy though.

      --
      Health Freedom is almost as popular as Freedom itself.
    4. Re:I don't get... by basementman · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually TV and Internet costs aren't that different. I pay a monthly fee for the line that goes to my house for both TV and Internet. When I watch a TV show I see commercials, and when I go to most websites I see ads. The only difference is that TV ads are far more obstructive to the content.

    5. Re:I don't get... by Pentium100 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't know how this stuff works in the US, but where I live, the cable operator just catches the TV programs off the air or via some cable or satellite (I don't work for a cable company so don't know for sure), converts it to analog and sends both analog and digital versions trough the cable to my home. There is no difference between a channel that I can get off the air and the same channel on cable (except the reception quality). The commercials are part of the original program, so if the cable company were to remove them, it would leave a 5-10min gap of nothing where the commercials were.

      Why use cable then? Because of the higher reception quality and the ability to see foreign channels that would only be available via satellite.

      My cable company has a single channel of their own, but nothing interesting (to me) is there so I don't know if it has commercials or not (it only operates part of the day, the other part is ads with music, but it's easy to avoid them - just don't watch that channel)

    6. Re:I don't get... by AuMatar · · Score: 2, Informative

      In the US there's 4 or 5 OTA channels (CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, and maybe a PBS or WGN). Cable gives you dozens or hundreds of channels that aren't ever broadcast OTA. It's those channels that they're arguing should be commercial free.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    7. Re:I don't get... by sangreal66 · · Score: 4, Informative

      While the gist of what you are saying is correct, it is not accurate to say that "Cable companies do not pay networks to rebroadcast their signals." Cable providers pay a per-subscriber fee to the networks they carry, from a few cents to a few dollars.

    8. Re:I don't get... by Cylix · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually,

      Cable companies can and do pay for non-premium networks. The idea is fairly straight forward. If you need more viewers and your product is not so much in demand you might not charge for the product. More often then not these "less demanded" networks are packaged together with more appealing networks. Common sense comes into play here... if you can get someone to pay for your product then you will most likely elect to produce additional revenue where possible.

      This applies to both network and broadcast television.

      --
      "You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
    9. Re:I don't get... by Cylix · · Score: 3, Informative

      In the US, a cable company cannot re-transmit at will.

      It requires a re-transmission agreement or the broadcast originator files a "must carry" clause with the cable op.

      Must carry is used in place when the cable company does not carry your broadcast signal and they do not want to negotiate rates.

      A re-transmission agreement is simply a contract with whatever terms and length both parties can agree on. Top rated stations generally opt for cash and services from the cable company.

      --
      "You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
    10. Re:I don't get... by CyDharttha · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's how the Web started out - free of commercials. People got greedy though.

      :-)

    11. Re:I don't get... by mrbcs · · Score: 2, Informative
      Obligatory hosts file reply:

      Get this, http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm don't forget to go Start->Run->services.msc -> shut off dns client.

      The only ads you'll see are the ones served from the site you're on. Helps protect against phishing sites too.

      --
      I'm not anti-social, I'm anti-idiot.
    12. Re:I don't get... by Greg_D · · Score: 3, Funny

      That's how the universe started out -- free of commercials. But God wanted to watch the thighmaster commercial, and we've been screwed ever since.

    13. Re:I don't get... by Arcady13 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Nine minutes of ads would be great. That's what you got in 1969 on a one hour show. In 2009, you get 18 minutes of ads per hour. Yes, your "hour-long drama" is really 42 minutes. And your re-run of Star Trek TOS is missing 9 minutes of material, not including the "previously on" and "coming next week" spots that are also cut.

      By 2039, the show will be 9 minutes long and you'll have 51 minutes of ads. And fast-forward will be illegal.

    14. Re:I don't get... by antdah · · Score: 3, Interesting

      For someone who only has access to the free channels, I was really surprised when I realised this. I don't get it, the networks expect people to pay them good money for access to their channels and then suffer through commercials?
      And these guys wonder how people have the morale to pirate their shit...

      I just read the other day, but now I can only find this link, that there are studies suggesting that DVR's are actually good (or at least do no harm) to ads. Television Week: Study Says DVRs, Ads Can Co-Exist (television)
      For those of you who understand Swedish: MMS (Mediamätning i Skandinavien) has some info on it, and they also encourage you to visit www.adage.com, I did this, and the results are interesting.

    15. Re:I don't get... by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The problem with that is... cable bundling.

      The problem with that is... YOU.

      If you want the cable company to sell you cable a la carte then you need to cancel your cable subscription, and tell them why.

      By paying for those channels, you are voting for paying for those channels.

      Since people can clearly survive without television, I am not interested in your excuses. When you buy a product you don't want, you clearly are showing us that you want that product. You obviously want those channels, or you wouldn't pay for them.

      If you're getting local cable so you can watch your local community college's educational station, then you have a valid complaint. Otherwise, you are the problem.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  2. Heaven forbid you record a show off of tv! by itsybitsy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yikes you mean you can record a show off of tv and watch it at a different location? Wow what an innovation... oh, wait, I used to do that with Video Tape (VHS) all the time... time shifting shows too... location shifting them is no different...

    Before you know it you brain cells will have to pay a fee for SEEING a show. Oh wait, that's known as a movie theater...

    Before you know it you'll have to pay a fee every time you REMEMBER a show you saw on TV. Now that's scary.

  3. The content providers won but don't know it by speedlaw · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So the content providers sue the cable company for remote caching of shows. They really won this. Now, if the show is on a server somewhere, things like ad skip can't be disabled. There's no web page of hacks and work arounds for the "cable box". While the cable company was looking at this as two million remote boxes in homes versus a server farm, the content providers, stuck in 1965 where they played and you watched when they said to, freaked. They will figure out they won this as soon as they charge 5 cents per delayed broadcast...all passed on to the viewer, of course. Oh yes, that "dvr" fee is not going away, even if the DVR does.

  4. Re:Not that I disagree with the ruling, but... by Jason+Pollock · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There is a difference between the two situations.

    In the VOD situation, the operator is making a preemptive copy, and then rebroadcasting that copy when the customer requests it. The operator decides what is to be recorded and made available.

    In the PVR situation, the end customer decides what is recorded, and what is played back and stored.

    The question becomes, since the customer already has the right to make a time-shifted copy of a TV show (Sony v. Universal), the question hinges on whether or not the network operator is able to make a copy for the customer. Is it the customer making the copy, or the operator?

    Now, there were some strange bits in the arguments, both sides avoided what would appear to be obvious defences (see the previous slashdot discussion), but that's what it boils down to.

    To see how strange it was getting, they were talking about how long the video was stored in buffers in the device - too big a buffer and it becomes the operator creating a copy.

  5. MythTV is awesome by drewzhrodague · · Score: 4, Insightful

    MythTV works for me. It already eats the commercials from the recorded shows, and with simple scripts, I can encode old Star Trek shows onto my iPhone. If you haven't used it recently, I suggest taking a look. MythTV.

    --
    Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
    1. Re:MythTV is awesome by Dan667 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you record it with MythTV and play it back when you want and it automagically skips all the commercials you get to see what you want, when you want. That is unlike services like hulu that force you to watch it only on certain browsers and force you to watch commercials.

  6. No win for the consumer by hamburgler007 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No matter which party prevailed in this case, the average citizen wouldn't win. Both parties are only interested in making money, and as much of it as they can get away with.

    1. Re:No win for the consumer by Sp1n3rGy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Since when is capitalism so unpopular?

      If I'm evil for trying to turn a buck, then the US is in a shameful state for sure.

      I guess you are right. Let's move to China where... wait... umm, they like the Benjamins as well. Russia? Ohh wait, that was almost 20 years ago. How about the moon? Yeah!

  7. Re:Thoughts from the consumer side. by sprior · · Score: 3, Interesting

    More predictions. The cable companies are going to end up recording one of everything so "recording" something on the DVR is just a matter of keeping a pointer, so the next big fight is going to happen when a cable company allows you to "record" a show after it has already ended and the content producers cry foul.

    And more control will be exercised as to how long you can keep a recording. Those Battlestar Galactica episodes you've been keeping on your DVR for 6 months? Um, no.

  8. Re:A few thoughts... by dean.collins · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm actually suprised how little press attention has been paid to this court ruling. This could be a very very big thing if applied to other digital content. http://deancollinsblog.blogspot.com/2008/08/cloudification-of-your-content.html