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Copyright Should Encourage Derivative Works

Techdirt has an interesting look at copyright and the idea that an author is the originator of a new work. Instead, the piece suggests that all works are in some way based on the works of others (even our own copyright law), and the system should be much more encouraging of "remixing" work into new, unique experiences. "Friedman also points back to another recent post where he discusses the nature of content creation, based on a blog post by Rene Kita. In it, she points out that remixing and creating through collaboration and building on the works of others has always been the norm. It's what we do naturally. It's only in the last century or so, when we reached a means of recording, manufacturing and selling music — which was limited to just those with the machinery and capital to do it, that copyright was suddenly brought out to 'protect' such things."

34 of 136 comments (clear)

  1. Remixes by sopssa · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's only in the last century or so, when we reached a means of recording, manufacturing and selling music -- which was limited to just those with the machinery and capital to do it, that copyright was suddenly brought out to "protect" such things."

    Which actually brings me to ask an interesting question; I've always liked remixes of songs and find they're great listening if you like the original song aswell, and sometimes even if you dont. But how do they handle the copyright issues with labels? And how do those professional remixes create them anyways, do they get all the different tracks from labels or what?

    1. Re:Remixes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Perhaps we need to add something that is anathema to most US copyright exercisers, namely mandatory licensing. If you want to create a derivative work, you need to give a percentage of x% of the value based on the x% derivation. Note, it is a portion of the percentage, not equal to the percentage derivation itself. And, this may be only if the parties do not agree to a reasonable royalty on their own.

    2. Re:Remixes by Runaway1956 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm not so much into music, as I am into books. Over several years, I read almost all of Marion Zimmer Bradley's books. I'm sure I missed some, but I read a LOT. Bradley's Darkover books, especially, inspired a huge fan club. Not only did Bradley tolerate, but she ENCOURAGED new authors to explore her Darkover universe. I would hate to count, but there are probably 5 or more published books about Bradley's Darkover than she ever published.

      If I recall correctly, all of those derivative works pay tribute to Bradley, somewhere within the pages. To my knowledge, Bradley never was paid a cent on any of those derivative works. Bradley DID BENEFIT from them, in that they expanded her sphere of admirers, who in turn bought more of her original works.

      This is the correct and proper way for copyright to work, regarding derivative works. Pay homage to the master who showed you the way, but you really owe him nothing more. Just like education - teachers teach to earn a living, but they HOPE that one or more of their students surpasses them. If/when a student does surpass his/her teachers, he isn't required to come back and pay them again for teaching him so well.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    3. Re:Remixes by EEBaum · · Score: 2, Interesting

      IIRC, the labels handle all the busywork for the artists on this. Lawyers and accountants call lawyers and accountants, hammer out agreements, establish a rapport over the years. Might even be some even-trades going on (you can use X of ours if we can use Y of yours). Works all right if you're signed with a label. Sucks majorly for indie artists who can't afford the fees demanded and/or don't have corresponding in-demand works to trade access for, assuming the labels will give them the time of day at all.

      --
      -- I prefer the term "karma escort."
    4. Re:Remixes by nine-times · · Score: 2, Informative

      Typically when a song is remixed or sampled, the copyright holders have given permission and are getting royalties.

    5. Re:Remixes by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      MZB's name was on the cover of all the Darkover books published during her lifetime, IIRC; it's a pretty fair bet that she made at least as much money off the anthologies as the individual authors did. Generally the way it works with anthologies is that the authors get a fixed payment, and the editor gets a (small) advance and the royalties.

      You're right, of course, that she encouraged both fanfic and the "official" stories written for the anthologies ... until she didn't, because (apparently, and this is all second- or third-hand information) some nutcase submitted a story for one of the anthologies, got a rejection slip, and then threatened to sue when some idea vaguely similar to the story appeared in one of MZB's own novels a few years later. At that point she felt she had no choice but to shut down the anthology line, and although she didn't tell people to stop writing fanfic, she was no longer able to give it her blessing. And I can't blame her. This isn't the usual pattern of a copyright holder being overly aggressive; it's about someone who had always been very generous with her copyrights defending herself against vicious and unwarranted attack.

      Which is a damned shame, because some of the anthology stories -- and the fanfic, for that matter -- were very very good, and helped launch the careers of some authors who are well-recognized names today. MZB's free-and-easy attitude also, no doubt, had a lot to do with the enduring popularity of the series. But I'm really not sure what else she could have done.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    6. Re:Remixes by DrSuperbo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Remix Releases 101 Let's say artist A makes a track, and artist B wants to remix it. B will most likely create a remix from just the CD audio of A's track, or from acapella tracks (only the vocal from the original song - often obtained from studio contacts or second hand from the same source, but many hip-hop and electronic acts make acapellas freely available, see the Beastie Boys, or even release them as B-sides, see Eminem) and send it to A's label, perhaps along with a description of what B would do given better access to A's master recording (every instrument as a seperate audio file). A's label now has three options. It can ignore B's correspondence altogether - the most common option by far. B can then either leave it at that, or can release the remix as an unnamed, unbranded release, which will be termed a White Label or VIP remix. B's name will not appear on the release and B will likely only be recognised as the remixer by rumour and hearsay, as the release is in effect a copyright infringement. It will most likely only appear on vinyl, at pressings of between 100-3000 copies, so intended for DJ play only. A's label can pursue the originator, as the vinyl pressing house's mark will appear on the disc, but as a cost vs benefit thing, they probably wont. If a house DJ plays a house remix of a U2 track at a house club, it lets a room full of people who likely wouldn't listen to U2 hear a U2 track, thus promoting U2 at no expense to the label. A's label's second option is to release B's 'rough draft' remix as it stands. This happens rarely, but does happen. The remix will most likely be found as the B-side to the 5th single off the album, or on the Japanese release, or as a DVD extra to the tour video, or appears as an 'exlusive' on a A-label-promoted DJ mix album. Point being that it does get released but not so as you'd notice as a consumer. B gets paid some money for this and A owns the copyright to the remix, and everyone's happy. Third option is that A's label likes where B is going with the remix, and releases the track stems (every individual instrument) to B to finish the remix. B will then finish the remix as planned, but A's label (and often A himself) will have more creative control, as if B was an artist on the label. B will get paid well for this, but at the expense of his creative control. The remix would then get released as a B-side to the original song's single or to the lead or second single off the album. These days, these third option remixes would get put on iTunes Store etc, but the 2nd option remixes probably wouldn't. In the case of A and B both being on seperate independent labels, A's label would release the stem tracks in exchange for someone from B's label being remixed by someone from A's. Then B would get paid less well, but both labels would be cross-promoting each other effectively. Note that this is when B WANTS to remix A. It is often that A's label thinks that B is *so hot right now* that they will actively pursue a remix from B. Hence last year you get Burial (Mercury award winner, NME and Radio 1 favourite, but with plenty integrity in the underground, exclusively signed to an independent) remixing Bloc Party (on V2, owned by Virgin, difficult indie rock band on their difficult 2nd album) and Thom Yorke (Radiohead frontman on his inaccessible but admittedly brilliant first solo album). This will follow the 3rd model above, but B can pretty much name his price for the remix. And just to end with my favourite internet cliche, hope that helps!

    7. Re:Remixes by WCLPeter · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If you want to create a derivative work, you need to give a percentage of x% of the value based on the x% derivation.

      Yes, but how do you determine what the derivative percentage is for a work I've used? Suppose I want to make a Star Trek film? I don't use any of the original characters, I create my own ship, my own crew, even my own sector of space for them to explore. I'd only be using the Star Trek backdrop because its familiar, I'm a Star Trek geek, and I feel there are plenty of quality stories still left to be told in that universe.

      How much Trek did I use to create my derivative work? I won't be able to tell you, I doubt anyone could, but you can bet your last dollar that the lawyers at Paramount would tell you its pretty damn close to 100% and, unless you had access to equally high powered lawyers, there would be no way you'd be able to fight it either.

      No, what we need is targeted, specific, legislation that makes it abundantly clear the copyright holder will receive a percentage of the net profits earned from the derivative work. With the power of Hollywood Accounting, they'll get exactly what they deserve.

  2. Absolutely by Jurily · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just look at software. How many developers learn to code without looking at examples? And why does good documentation contain lots of those?

    Face it: once you've seen some code, from that point on everything you write can be considered a remix of all those, coupled with your own ideas.

  3. No really? by Darkness404 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You only need to look at, well anything to see that everything is a derivative work of another thing. That was the point of public domain. Almost all of Shakespeare's work references heavily or is based on another work. Heck, music, movies, etc. Are all based on each other, anyone could tell you that. This is why it is very important to have a limited copyright. Anything more than ~30 years is harmful to the industry.

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    1. Re:No really? by Winckle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Anything more than ~30 years is harmful to the industry.

      Oh no, it helps the industry, it just harms culture.

    2. Re:No really? by Darkness404 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I don't think it really helps the industry as a whole though. Consider if Shakespeare wasn't allowed to adapt key pieces from The Tragical History of Romeus and Juliet into Romeo and Juliet (and if both had been around using the US copyright system, he wouldn't have). Both were part of the same industry (literature and plays), yet I don't think that The Tragical History of Romeus and Juliet would have made as much of money and helped the industry compared to Romeo and Juliet. It sure helps a few individuals, but not the industry.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    3. Re:No really? by Tweenk · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It helps a few major players, but harms industry on the whole. The same is true for other creative arts. The proponents of restrictive IP rights usually misrepresent the good of those few best known players as the good of the industry, but the reality is that prosperity lies in plurality and "lawless free-for-all", not exclusive deals.

      --
      Those who would give up liberty to obtain working drivers, deserve neither liberty nor working drivers.
    4. Re:No really? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      No, it helps a subset of the industry, to a limited degree. There have been three studies I can think of (one from Harvard, one from MIT, and the Gowers' Report by the British Government) that show that it doesn't help the entire industry. Unfortunately, the part of the industry it does help spends a significant proportion of their money on lobbying.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  4. If Everything is copied... by rm999 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Maybe I misunderstand what they are saying, but if everything is copied or derived from something else, then I don't see the issue. Want a superhero comic? Just make your own character and Universe that copies the same thing Batman did. There is nothing stopping this type of "innovation".

    But I do not think some two bit hack should be able to just create a Batman comic strip without permission. A lot of copyright holders put effort into creating a consistent Universe with high quality story lines. I think weakening what a copyright means can dilute people's creativity in this way.

    I personally license everything artistic I do under a creative commons license because I am not personally vested in my works. But I know some people devote their lives to their creations, and I know they would not want to see their works getting lost in a pool of comic strips with Calvin peeing on stuff or Billy from Family Circus telling his mom to do obscene things with that carrot on the table.

    1. Re:If Everything is copied... by Tweenk · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But I do not think some two bit hack should be able to just create a Batman comic strip without permission.

      Sorry but this is the purest form of assholery enabled by copyright.

      If someone random releases a Batman comic, then there are three possible outcomes:
      1. It sucks. Nobody cares, the original author does not lose anything. Publisher is annoyed because somebody is using "their" franchise, but since people tend to forget about shitty comics they doesn't care much.
      2. It is acceptable. Some people will buy and enjoy it, but most probably won't consider it canon. The original author is unaffected. Publisher is annoyed because they think that money should belong to them.
      3. It is absolutely great. Readers have a great comic, the "unauthorized" artist has a lot of money. The original artist might have a reduced ability to sell his future works if they aren't as good as the "unauthorized" ones, but most probably his earlier works will sell better because of increased popularity of Batman in general. Publisher gnaws his arms off because they did not make any money from the hit.

      Conclusion: this use of copyright does not benefit the authors or the readers in the slightest. They only benefit the publishers, who can turn the creative arts into a money farm. The effect is a cultural land grab that stifles creativity, and prevents a great many works from being created because they would not be authorized. For example, a movie about the Stalinist terror using Disney characters could become a cultural milestone, and yet there is no chance of that ever being authorized.

      --
      Those who would give up liberty to obtain working drivers, deserve neither liberty nor working drivers.
    2. Re:If Everything is copied... by gnupun · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A lot of copyright holders put effort into creating a consistent Universe with high quality story lines.

      You nailed it. How many people on YouTube watch Naruto AMVs (just remixed scenes from the anime with their favorite song)? Just a few, because the videos are crap and the remixer is just a hack who lacks the creativity and skill required by true artists. If every wannabe was allowed to create and distribute their own Batman, Superman, Naruto etc. the video content will be the same crap quality as YouTube AMVs. If you force copyright holders to allow derived works, market will be flooded with so many crap Batman comics and movies, nobody will associate Batman with good shows.

      I, for one, am sick of the low-quality reality TV shows, low-quality youtube videos, low quality web blogs -- all free. When you demand free stuff, this is the quality you get.

      Secondly, I don't understand the entitlement attitude most people have towards copyrighted works. The author used his own time and skill to create a work for your enjoyment. He does not owe you any work unless he is your slave. Therefore, he has the right to charge a reasonable price for his work for his own personal benefit. School, religion and OSS type propaganda has brainwashed you into slaving your life away for the benefit of others, when in reality you should be spending your time primarily for your own benefit. Name a single species, on this planet, other than human, that works primarily for the benefit of others -- none.

    3. Re:If Everything is copied... by cdrguru · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You missed the real case.

      1a. It sucks. People buying it decide that ALL "Batman" stuff sucks. Nobody gets any money for stuff that sucks.

      This is the problem unless you envision a world where everyone hears about everything on an equal basis. Sorry, nobody is that well informed, no matter how much time they spend on the Internet looking around and following links.

      It is perfectly possible to destroy a "brand" with inferior merchandise, just as long as the inferior crap is put in front of people. This is what the battle for "counterfit" goods is all about and "derivative works" as well. If I can take over any brand and distribute my own version of it it cannot help the original brand much. It may not hurt it, or it can destroy it.

      Here is another concept of "unauthorized" works. How about a film about the secret passions of Pol Pot enacted with nothing but Disney characters. I'll bit Minny Mouse would look real cute in the gangbang scene. Do you believe this would encourage more parents to bring their children to the Disney store? Why would you assume that this wouldn't happen?

    4. Re:If Everything is copied... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Cool. That's why trademarks exist.

    5. Re:If Everything is copied... by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you force copyright holders to allow derived works, market will be flooded with so many crap Batman comics and movies, nobody will associate Batman with good shows.

      That's not really correct. All that might happen would be that people wouldn't assume that merely because it was a work about Batman that it was good. Instead, they would look to the author of the particular work. You can see an example of this with classic fairy tales. They're in the public domain, and anyone can publish copies of them or make derivative works based on them. A version of Cinderella by Disney might be good, while a version by Jerry Lewis might be pretty crappy. Rather than just go to anything about the character, the audience will have to check to see which version it is. This is not a tremendous burden.

      When you demand free stuff, this is the quality you get.

      It is inappropriate for copyright law or policy to care about quality. The government shouldn't be the arbiters of taste for everyone. Copyright should look to quantity instead, by encouraging the creation of as many original and derivative works as possible. Given that 90% of everything is crap, more of everything is the only sure way to get more of the good stuff. Since no one is forcing you, or anyone else, to watch bad things, it's easy to ignore it.

      The author used his own time and skill to create a work for your enjoyment. He does not owe you any work unless he is your slave.

      I agree completely.

      Therefore, he has the right to charge a reasonable price for his work for his own personal benefit.

      Provided that you mean he has a right in transactions in which he is a participant, and given that markets tend to dictate prices (would you pay as much for a DVD of Gigli as you would of Citizen Kane?), I'd agree with that too.

      But copyright isn't about either of those things. Even without copyright, both of those would still hold true.

      What copyright does is it prohibits third parties from making copies of the work, distributing them, etc., instead allowing the copyright holder to monopolize the market for the work, so that he can charge above-market prices, since for some reason copyright proponents don't ever think that the market price is ever "reasonable." There's certainly no natural right to a monopoly. It might be sensible to give such a right to a copyright holder, but given that it means a loss of freedom for everyone else, and having to suffer monopoly pricing, there really ought to be a good reason. The mere fact that the author created the work is not a good reason.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    6. Re:If Everything is copied... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem here is more closely related to trademark law than copyright. Imagine you create a new Batman film. You spend a massive amount of money advertising it. Then someone starts selling a comic book using the same characters that isn't very good. Two things will happen here. Firstly, people will buy it because they've seen your adverts and think it will be good. Secondly, they will be disappointed by the story and decide not to go and see the film.

      If you make sure that 'unauthorised' is written very clearly on the cover, I don't see this being a problem, but reusing someone else's setting and characters generally implies some form of endorsement.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    7. Re:If Everything is copied... by Tweenk · · Score: 3, Insightful

      1a. It sucks. People buying it decide that ALL "Batman" stuff sucks. Nobody gets any money for stuff that sucks.

      There is another mechanism to prevent that, and which is generally agreed upon as positive: trademarks. You are conflating trademarks with derivative works. You can register a trademark for the "leading" Batman comic (e.g. a distinct graphical symbol.. no idea what that could be) to distinguish it from those from competing authors, and only license it to works you approve of. This way you have a way of extracting some revenue from unrelated authors as well as having some grip on what is considered canon, but at the same you can't be an asshole and prevent others from publishing their work at all.

      Here is another concept of "unauthorized" works. How about a film about the secret passions of Pol Pot enacted with nothing but Disney characters.

      Except it wouldn't be marketed as a Disney movie. You might find the idea offensive, but there will be people who won't, and I see no reason to prevent them from making such a movie, as long as they don't misrepresent what it is about (which is an entirely different problem unrelated to copyright).

      When an actor stars in a horror it does not suddenly make a family comedy in which he also appeared unacceptable to the kids. I don't know why it shouldn't be the same with cartoon characters.

      --
      Those who would give up liberty to obtain working drivers, deserve neither liberty nor working drivers.
    8. Re:If Everything is copied... by icebraining · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's society who gives and takes "rights". What have you done to deserve freedom of speech, or the right not to be discriminated?

      As for the copy cats, do you think people would choose to buy "BartMan" instead of "Batman"? Art is not an utensil, people don't choose to listen to "Mentallica" just because their albums are somewhat cheaper than Metallica's.

  5. Um, no. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    George Lucas okayed derivative works as long as anyone didn't profit off of it. That's one person controlling HIS copyrights. That's his CHOICE.

    For example, do I want people making derivative works of my copyrights (my novels)? No. That's my CHOICE.

    1. Re:Um, no. by Runaway1956 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It is not properly up to George Lucas to decide that people may or may not profit from such derivative works. All that is required, in a sane world, is that the author acknowledge Lucas as a source of ideas, that the author not plegiarize (copy Lucas' work, then claim to have authored it), and that the new work actually contain substantial new material. If the derivative work is any good, people will want it. If it is trash, people aren't going to bother with it.

      Kinda funny how that works. I mean, how many people are going to watch a completely obvious Starwars ripoff that contributes little or nothing to the storyline of the universe? It would be a total financial loss for the idiot who tried it.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    2. Re:Um, no. by countertrolling · · Score: 3, Informative

      For example, do I want people making derivative works of my copyrights (my novels)? No. That's my CHOICE.

      No, it's a government granted PRIVILEGE. Hopefully, it will be revoked some day. Even your copyrights are derivative works with little more than personal anecdotes.

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
  6. Re:Nothing is wrong with our copyright law... by H0p313ss · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If anything, Obama's election proves the current mindset of Americans (social welfare for everyone granted by big government.)

    Odd perspective... I was thinking that it was more of an indication of the rejection of a government by the corporations, of the corporations, for the corporations.

    --
    XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
  7. Derivative works by nine-times · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In it, she points out that remixing and creating through collaboration and building on the works of others has always been the norm. It's what we do naturally.

    AFAICT, the real point of talking about "derivative works" with copyright is just to close a loophole where someone might say, "Oh, I don't have the right to distribute your work? Well no problem, this isn't your work. I changed 5 words in the novel, which makes it a different work. This new work is mine."

    Since then, some people have taken it to mean that all new copyrighted works should be 100% original, not inspired by anything, and not borrowing from anyone's past work. But that's impossible.

    1. Re:Derivative works by Tweenk · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Copyright is complicated.

      If I change 5 words in somebody else's book and sign it with my name, it's plagarism.
      If I change 5 words and leave the original author's name on it, it's an unauthorized edition.
      If I rewrite a few chapters and sign it with both names, it's a collaboration.
      If I rewrite a few chapters and sign it with my name only, it's a derivative work.
      If I take the idea and characters and write an unrelated story, it's still a derivative work but might not be.
      If I reuse random sentences from someone else's book in my own unrelated one, it's called sampling.
      If I rewrite someone's book in modern slang, it's called a cover.
      If I reuse the store and characters but set it in modern times, it's called a remake.
      If I take the story, trivialize it in the most intellectually offensive way imaginable and show it to millions of people, with the original author maybe receiving lots of money and maybe not*, it's called a Hollywood movie.

      *) see LOTR fiasco. Not an example of offensive trivializing though.

      --
      Those who would give up liberty to obtain working drivers, deserve neither liberty nor working drivers.
  8. Art without copyright by Tweenk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Consider a form of art unhindered by copyright: dance.

    The age of Internet is also the golden age of dance. Little known or local styles like Melbourne Shuffle gain worldwide recognition. A plurality of others, like the many variants of Jumpstyle, Tecktonik or Hardstep are created, because the elements from many styles can be combined to form a new mix, while the Internet and Youtube in particular allows easy sharing of demos and tutorial videos that allow anyone to learn a particular move they like. Classical styles are becoming more popular as well. Never before in human history was there such a vibrant dance scene. And even though "anybody" can dance, professional dancers still have jobs (see Riverdance, Stomp, any music video).

    There is a lesson to be learned from this.

    --
    Those who would give up liberty to obtain working drivers, deserve neither liberty nor working drivers.
  9. Re:Just be careful what you wish for... by ClosedSource · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually, that's not exactly true. If there were a EULA, you might still be bound by it. The author of the original GPL'd work may be able to take action against the author of the derived work, but you are merely a third-party with no standing to enforce the GPL.

  10. Re:Nothing is wrong with our copyright law... by westlake · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There is virtually nothing wrong with our copyright law... that our founding fathers wrote for us

    The geek has no sense of history.

    When English authors could be easily and safely pirated there was little chance for an American to make it into print.

    Writers at Emerson's level had to beg friends for the money to self-publish.

    That's possible for the social and economic elite - an Adams or a Parkman - but much harder for the middle or lower class.

    Here is a simple test: "I have a mule, her name is Sal. Fifteen miles on the Erie Canal."

    Folk song or the New York stage? 1830 or 1905?

    Now try the same with a fragment of any old American song or story you seem to remember.

    I'm betting you will be wrong about the date and wrong about its origins.

     

  11. MOD parent up by mdmkolbe · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Artistic characters should only be protected by trademark. Artistic works which are covered by copyright should only include actual works (e.g. Steamboat Willie) and not abstractions of those works (e.g. the Mickey Mouse character). Somewhere in between there is a gray area between paraphrase (probably should be protected by copyright) and summary (shouldn't be restricted by copyright).

  12. Re:Nothing is wrong with our copyright law... by DreamsAreOkToo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Well, no one perspective is the entire picture. Some people voted for him because he wasn't Bush. A lot of people also voted for him because he was saying that he'd enforce all these social programs. I'm all for social programs, but they have to be social programs that work. Almost nothing the government does actually works. (Look at social security, which is supposed to be a holding program. If it's only a holding program, why isn't there any money?)

                I don't want to live in a country where you can sue somebody because you trespassed onto their property, started jumping on their trampoline and broke your neck. I also don't want to live in a country with big government. Or big corporations, which can harness enough economic power to be their own big governments. In order for that to happen, people need to start taking some responsibility. I don't know about the people around you, but when I talk about how the state wants to pass a bill that would allow them to track people without warrants, they ask me to stop talking, because they don't want to worry about it.