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Despite New Owner, id Still Lives Or Dies By Their Engines

The Guardian has an article about id Software's status after being purchased by ZeniMax (Bethesda's parent company) not long ago. While id gained considerable financial stability out of the deal, it's clear that what Bethesda has to gain is access to top-of-the-line engine technology, which they've often needed to license. id's Todd Hollenshead said, "The videogames business is defined by technology, which is why guys like JC [John Carmack] are still so significant. Consumers may not be as in touch with the intricacies as they used to be, but you can still make significant, impactful change. We're confident Rage will be one of them..." He also mentions that "the PC market has receded in terms of significance," a sentiment evidenced by id's aggressive expansion into the iPhone games market.

9 of 131 comments (clear)

  1. The times they are changing... by DirtyCanuck · · Score: 3, Interesting

    With the recent closing of the doors to 3d Realms it's good to reflect on the old heavy hitters in a contemporary complexion.

    Back in the day it was the Unreal Engine and the Quake engine that were the benchmark for graphics. The build engine for 3d realms spawned countless titles, though that was the last great engine they had.

    So today, it seems that what is most important to some firms is the quality of the engine rather than the games they produce. This however results in titles that are simply showcases, appose to good games.

    It would be nice for developers to have enough in house resources to do both. Create an amazing game around an amazing engine.

    With that I look with optimism to the future of id in hopes that they bring back some of that old sparkle that has been lacking as of late.

  2. atleast EA didn't buy them by Inconnux · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I wonder if this means they wont GPL any further game engines... This news was kinda sad, one of the top tier developers sells out... a sad time for pc gamers... but I guess it could have been worse, EA could have bought them.

    1. Re:atleast EA didn't buy them by spire3661 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Carmack said in a press release recently that their feelings towards open source are not negotiable (paraphrasing) and that every tech engine they make is intended for eventual open sourcing. Its simply part of the entire design philosophy

      --
      Good-bye
    2. Re:atleast EA didn't buy them by Aliotroph · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's exactly what I meant to say. He wouldn't sign up for a contract stopping him from carrying out at least a large part of his vision for the company. Everything I've read from him indicates this and so do the things I've read about him.

      He seems happy to work with them for now, indicating he likely got pretty much what he wanted. There are really no arguments against open-sourcing deprecated code. Things like that are great for PR, great for training programmers, great for keeping the games alive, etc. Carmack knows that and advocates it. If he sees things going the other way he will likely walk out the door and without him, id may just start feeling like a collection of old IP. In short, he's got leverage.

      Rather than worry too much about not seeing any more id code, I was thinking maybe we'd get to see some olde Bethesda code! If they were willing to release TES: Arena as freeware why not release the source (aside from any licensed libraries)? Maybe he can't convince many Zenimax/Bethesda people of that, but I doubt he would have been willing to end id's independence without that freedom for himself.

  3. Curious by GF678 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Why is John Carmack the only developer of commercial game engines who actually releases the source code after they have become technically obsolete? I mean it's very nice, since it's given us games like Urban Terror and OpenAreana which can be released completely free as standalone games, but companies very rarely do things out of the goodness of their hearts.

    The only reason I can see him doing this is because he believes in the open-source cause, but will his new owner allow him to continue this trend?

    1. Re:Curious by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think it was Seymour Cray who made a boat every year and finished by chopping the boat up and having a barbecue. If I could somehow dispose of the megabytes of legacy code I have to deal with at work, moving forward would be a lot easier. So maybe GPLing code is Carmack's way of saying its done. Now forget about it and move on.

  4. Id Needs A Gameplay Guru by Iyonesco · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Id was at its best when Jon Romero worked there since Carmack would focus on the graphics and Romero would focus on the gameplay. Since the break-up of this partnership Id's games have gone drastically down hill while Romero found he couldn't make a game without Carmack. Romero appeared to have trouble with the technical side of Daikatana with lengthy delays and terrible visuals when it finally was released. Daikatana received a poor reception but the gameplay was clearly there with some innovative ideas and great feel to the movement control. It was the technical execution that was lacking, likely a result of not having somebody like Carmack.

    Carmack's engines always look amazing but the engine is now Id's only selling point and their games are just dire. Id desperately needs to recruit someone with a proven record of making fun games so they can bring their gamplay up to the level of their engines. I vote for Romero, and bring American McGee back while you're at it. That would really return Id back to its past glory.

    1. Re:Id Needs A Gameplay Guru by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I agree it does sound like a good idea. i.e. The whole bit about having the flashlight and being able to shoot mutually exclusive in Doom 3 just wasn't a very good design decision.

      Unfortunately, that's not to happen. I had dinner with Romero at E3 - he's busy doing 5 (!) MMOs. I actually asked about Daikatana. :-) I didn't realize it sold 200,000 and broke even for Eidos. He admitted that one of the mistakes made was hiring inexperienced people. One of the lesson learnt was "Hire the most experienced people first, the least experienced people last" which sounds pretty reasonable.

  5. Re:Reduced Focus = Reduced Significance by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I agree with you, but i wouldnt toss Valve into the mix. Valve has been great on the PC. Steam while it still is a copy protection scheme, is still a pretty dam good distribution platform and a great gaming community. Yes its a form of DRM but they're pretty fair with the users and Steam doesn't hassle the user in any way really. Its very light on resources and it enhances the gaming community.

    Valve has also been incredible with Team Fortress 2. They've supported it quite well and Its far better than anything ID has ever put out.

    The Left 4 Dead 2 thing was a kick in the ass to PC gamers that bought L4D (such as myself). The reason being is that Left 4 Dead was too simple, too short, and seamed like a mod (which in reality it is and they some what admit to it if you read about the history of its development).

    The problem was Left 4 Dead was so simple and under developed, that fans had expected Valve to support it with lots of free content that would enhance the game such as new campaigns, new weapons, better AI, etc. This expectation was due to the fact that Valve had been so generous with Team Fortress 2 and they still are to this day. They have been openly supporting TF2 at their own cost, selling the game for $10 on several occasions. They managed to grow a large user base by building a community of gamers and supporting it, so much that we all expected them to do the same with Left 4 Dead.

    L4D is a really shallow and boring game. Its a great idea that never really came to light in its execution. Valve probably knows this and decided to just go ahead and do a Left 4 Dead. I dont think L4D was EVER expected to be as popular and as huge as it became (thanks to the hype). L4D2 will remain a thorn in most gamers minds until it is released. I plan to buy L4D2 if it is of quality this time around. L4D was a huge disappointment but a great idea.

    Anyways... I agree... PC gaming is not dead.... YET. If developers like ID dont start actually making games.... It will die.

    Valve has done far more for PC gaming than id has done recently. id may not even be relevant these days because they're too slow to develope and no one is interested in their games because no one ever hears of what they're doing. They might as well not even exist. id is legendary but they need to produce something NOW.

    I just bought Street Fighter IV on steam... I own it already on xbox360. So I dont think PC gaming is dead. The PC has the best version of Street Fighter IV, and MadCatz's xbox 360 Tournament Arcade stick works perfectly on the PC as well.... so its a match made in heaven.

    Developers like CAPCOM (makers of street fighter), whom are traditionally console developers have been supporting the PC more than ever now a days. More so than even id software. Capcom has put out more PC games than id has in the past 10 years. I find that interesting.

    That said... Xbox live is a great community, and the xbox hardware itself is good enough to play 720p games while sitting back on your couch looking at a giant HD LCD screen. More people use voice coms on xbox live than on pc and more people have xbox's than a gaming PC.

    The consoles are going to win this war because developers are going where the people are first, and second they do still care about piracy. The PC versions of console games tend to come out after the console release. The console releases all get priority (Street Fighter, Lost Planet, Red Faction all came out later on PC).

    This is why i wont toss valve under the bus... Valve has created an Xbox Live like experience with Steam. A friends list, voice coms, game invites, messages, personal webpages for gamers, digital download distribution with a very friendly drm scheme.

    Valve is doing the right thing, and I'm proud of their fair pricing and often ridiculously cheap prices on their hit titles... They're quite fair to gamers in many respects. The whole Left 4 Dead 2 thing is a bitch but i cant complain too much. I bought Team fortress 2 for $10 on Steam, and they have given me so much free additional content for TF2 and have kept the community alive and well that it really is admirable. I cant kill Valve for the Left 4 Dead 2 thing yet... not until I see the final product.