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Reasons To Hesitate On Zer01's Unlimited Mobile Offer

alphadogg writes with an excerpt from Network World that might save you some money: "Imagine downloading a two-hour HD movie in three minutes to your new cell phone, then plugging the phone into your TV to watch the film. Make unlimited phone calls, surf online as much as you like and send unlimited text messaging for $70 a month, without a contract. Sign up to sell the same service to other people and get $10 a month for each person you sell to. That's what a group of related companies including Zer01 Mobile, Buzzirk, Global Verge and Unified Technologies Group are promoting heavily online and at industry trade shows. The offer is attractive enough to garner coverage in top business and technology publications, at least one positive review from an analyst and even a 'best in show' award from a magazine at the CTIA wireless industry trade show earlier this year. Does it all sound too good to be true? If so, that's because it probably is. What little information is available about the services is technically inconsistent, and doesn't match up with public records."

46 of 122 comments (clear)

  1. Too good to be true? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    They had me at pyramid scheme.

    1. Re:Too good to be true? by crispin_bollocks · · Score: 2, Funny

      The mortgage biz is slow, gotta find something new

  2. Oh come on people by Dunbal · · Score: 5, Funny

    Surely email has taught us that we can absolutely trust anything offered for sale by someone u51Ng 1337 sp34k! Shame on you.

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    1. Re:Oh come on people by Dunbal · · Score: 2, Funny

      Apparently, this is no longer a problem ... puppies can now be cloned ...

            Cloned puppies can be harmed, too!

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      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  3. The laws of physics called by Com2Kid · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They want to speak with someone over at Zer01, something about "exceeding sane limitations of the electromagnetic spectrum".

    An HD movie in 3 minutes? Even if they are calling "480p" HD, there is no way in hell that is transfering wirelessly in 3 minutes to a cellular device.

    Trying to sign everyone up as a sales associate just proves it is a scam.

    1. Re:The laws of physics called by sanosuke001 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have a 1080p copy of a movie at home and it's ~8GB.

      8 GB in 180 seconds = 364.09 mbps.

      um.... no

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      -SaNo
    2. Re:The laws of physics called by Com2Kid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They are claiming use of the 2100mhz spectrum. Given the spectrum they are claiming to be using, there is no way to use cellular technology (wireless towers, multiple customers handled per tower) to get those types of speeds.

      Sure, if they crap all over everyone's licensed EM bands they could maybe pull it off, but even then they would encounter issues with running enough fiber out to every single cell tower to support users on any arbitrary tower pulling down in excess of 200mb/s, assuming a well compressed, somewhat short, 5GB HD movie.

      It is just not possible with using a cellular network laid out how we presently do it. Even using some futeristic weird uber-mesh network it would be hard as hell to pull off, and even then, you would need more than just some small slice of the 2100mhz band.

    3. Re:The laws of physics called by SlashDev · · Score: 3, Informative

      1) What if your handset supported 4G? 2) Did they specify the length of the film? :) 4G can support 100Mbits/s while moving and 1Gbits/s while stationary, that translates to downloading a movie (no telling how long) in a few minutes. "The Japanese company NTT DoCoMo has been testing a 4G communication system prototype with 4x4 MIMO called VSF-OFCDM at 100 Mbit/s while moving, and 1 Gbit/s while stationary. In February 2007, NTT DoCoMo completed a trial in which they reached a maximum packet transmission rate of approximately 5 Gbit/s in the downlink with 12x12 MIMO using a 100MHz frequency bandwidth while moving at 10 km/h,[12] and is planning on releasing the first commercial network in 2010." Source DoCoMo.

      --

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    4. Re:The laws of physics called by QuantumRiff · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Screw the wireless part! I want to see a drive that can dump 5GB in 3min, within the constraints of a phone's power capabilities!

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    5. Re:The laws of physics called by Frnknstn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The "electromagnetic spectrum" is not a finite resource.

      Yes it is.

      --
      If it's in you sig, it's in your post.
    6. Re:The laws of physics called by C0vardeAn0nim0 · · Score: 2, Informative

      doing the math, that's 45.5 MB/s, pretty much the sustained data transfer rates of a SATA hard disk.

      and that over a wireless link, right ?

      I hate to bust their scam, but you're gonna need a very special, fine tunned setup to get this kind of transfer rates over _wired_ gigabit ethernet. the fastest wireless standard is 54 mbps (not counting draft standards), 1/20th the performance of gigabit. to transfer an SD movie over wireless from my linux notebook to the PS3 takes about 30 min.

      if we take the comparativelly slow data rates of HSDPA 3G cell networks, even the best operators top at 14 Mbps, which would require buffering to watch a standard def movie.

      to get the kind of speeds these guys are talking about, they'd have to use link aggregation/trunking to combine almost 100 HSDPA channels to match gigabit ethernet's speed. completelly unrealistic.

      --
      What ? Me, worry ?
    7. Re:The laws of physics called by maxume · · Score: 2, Funny

      Even without enforced frequency allocations, I would hope that people would not be making casual use of x-rays for communications devices.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    8. Re:The laws of physics called by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That might be the closest thing to "embracing transparency" that AT&T has ever tried...

    9. Re:The laws of physics called by Com2Kid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Lovely lovely speeds, on an isolated unpopulated cell tower. Two customers on that tower downloading movies? Speed cut in half. Aww crap, 100 people? You are going to be waiting awhile.

      And again, speeds would need to be around 45 MegaBYTES per second, well over 300mbit, and even if we cut that down to just 100mbit per second, do you really think companies are going to run enough fiber to give each user on a tower 100mbit of bandwidth on every cell tower in a city?

      The difference between what almost any standard can theoretically support and what you actually get is pretty significant, but large numbers do make for nice press releases.

    10. Re:The laws of physics called by Minwee · · Score: 5, Funny

      An HD movie in 3 minutes? Even if they are calling "480p" HD, there is no way in hell that is transfering wirelessly in 3 minutes to a cellular device.

      Sure you can. I do that all the time. You just need to do away with some of your preconceptions.

      Watch this. On the left I have a phone. It's a standard, off the shelf model, the same kind you can pick up just about anywhere pretty cheaply as long as you're willing to sign in blood.

      On the right, a microSD card packed with about eight gigabytes of hard core, er, family friendly and perfectly legal video. Again, just a standard card you could buy from a store. Well, one that carried SD cards. Perhaps you shop smart, shop SD Mart.

      Start the timer. In less than two seconds I can pick up the card with one hand, move it across the desk and plug it in to the phone. That's eight gigabytes of transfer in two seconds or 32Gb/s. All without using any wires, just fingers and those little metal contact thingies on the card. That's almost as much bandwidth as a station wagon filled with DLTs.

      There you go. 32Gb/s of wireless transmission. Just remember not to divulge any of the details I have shown you to the investors until after you get their money.

  4. Full stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From TFA

    One key player in the network of companies is Mark Petschel. He's the CEO of Global Verge, the multilevel marketing firm...

    Whenever MLM (multi-level-marketing) rears its ugly head, that's a good sign for me to avoid company like the plague.

    1. Re:Full stop by e9th · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When a company's CEO is on probation for security fraud, that's not a good sign either.

    2. Re:Full stop by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Funny

      That just means that he is an experienced bad boy with proven interpersonal skills!

    3. Re:Full stop by palegray.net · · Score: 2, Funny

      Given your username, I might not mind seeing that... what sort of appendages does your robot-self have, and how would you be using them on Mr. Securities Fraud?

  5. MLM by MBCook · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sign up to sell the same service to other people and get $10 a month for each person you sell to.

    That makes it multi-level-marketing (read: "legal pyramid scheme"), which should be an instant clue to anyone to avoid it.

    Also, reading the article, it's a $70 initial fee to do the MLM part, and $40 monthly fee, which means if you sign up 5 people, it will take 7 months to break even.

    You can probably make money faster by picking up loose change.

    --
    Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    1. Re:MLM by CannonballHead · · Score: 2, Funny

      by picking up loose change.

      Especially if the change is loose in someone's pocket ;)

    2. Re:MLM by anagama · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I haven't completely read the article, but this doesn't sound like MLM. In MLM, a person will get a cut of the revenue from the people who sign up under the people he signed up. This sounds like a discount for a referral, which can be perfectly legit. My webhost will give me a hosting credit if I refer someone who signs up. I've never even tried to get the credit, even with people I did suggest use my host, but that isn't MLN -- it's an incentive to make a referral.

      Note: I am not a MLM junkie by any stretch of the imagination, and like every(logical)one else, view all MLM schemes as scams. I don't see single level discounting as multilevel though, and they can be quite legitimate as a way to get an occasional discount, but are obviously not a way to make a living.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
  6. Ponzi pyramid peddler by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It sounds like all this guy does is set up ponzi schemes and then the state shuts him down, the circuit court rules that he must pay fines, but all he does is move on to the next ponzi.

    So, where do I sign up and give him my $70?

  7. Phantom phone? by interkin3tic · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Does this remind anyone else of the phantom. An electronic device that sounds too good to be true gathering investment money, the people who were supposed to be developing the thing have "offices" which are not really there.

    Of course in this case, one of the guys involved already has a record. At least with the phantom no one was outed as a known fraudster beforehand.

    I'm guessing that in 10 years, Zer01 will come out with a handy device to hold your phone up to your ear for you.

  8. It's funny, and a bit disturbing... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How, on the one hand, society makes it ever harder to escape your past(even shit entry level jobs can come with background and credit checks, never mind trying to get cleared, or the whole sex offender registry thing) while, somehow, certain people just seem to float right through, skipping from one scam to another, seemingly impervious.

    I wonder how it works. Is it the charm that sociopaths are known for that allows certain people to do it? Are the rules different in certain areas? Are most of the barriers actually illusory/psychological? Why doesn't an attempt to legally incorporate a new business include a "do any of your officers have a background in crime, particularly white collar crime?" check?

    1. Re:It's funny, and a bit disturbing... by Animats · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Why doesn't an attempt to legally incorporate a new business include a "do any of your officers have a background in crime, particularly white collar crime?" check?

      That's a real problem. People barred from involvement in the securities industry keep slipping back in. Bar owners barred from holding a liquor license often end up doing some deal as a "silent partner".

      I get complaints from "web businesses" who want to operate anonymously, because SiteTruth down-rates them for that. (It's a criminal offense to run a business anonymously in many jurisdictions.)

    2. Re:It's funny, and a bit disturbing... by durdur · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A lot of crime floats under the radar. If you've been scammed out of a few hundred bucks, you can try getting the police interested but likely they won't be. Better to take the guy to small claims court, if you can find him to lay a summons on him. Eventually if somebody scams enough people out of enough money they may rise out of the general level of scum up to a point where law enforcement will get interested. But it takes a while, and some people manage to avoid consequences for a good long time. It's a little harder if you're a corporation and have to be or look semi-established, but there's still inertia/time lag before you get noticed and somebody decides they have a case against you. Look at ZZZZ Best.

      As for business licensing requiring a clean slate - even if this were a good idea, the guys who take your money and give you a license are bureaucrats, not cops. And you don't pay them enough to have them check everybody who comes in the door for past misdeeds.

    3. Re:It's funny, and a bit disturbing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      I kept hearing things about some site called "Google", so I tried running it through SiteTruth. Turns out it's some shady, fly-by-night company. Phew! Glad I had SiteTruth to warn me.

    4. Re:It's funny, and a bit disturbing... by CAlworth1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Even better, try entering sitetruth.com - apparently they aren't too sure about themselves...

    5. Re:It's funny, and a bit disturbing... by Animats · · Score: 3, Informative

      I kept hearing things about some site called "Google", so I tried running it through SiteTruth. Turns out it's some shady, fly-by-night company.

      Yes, Google is in the doghouse again. Google is hosting some phishing sites, which were reported to PhishTank. SiteTruth blacklists any domain with a hit in PhishTank. On any given day, about 50 to 100 well-known domains (out of the 1.5 million in OpenDirectory) are on the blacklist, generally because of sloppy security. Microsoft, Yahoo, and eBay used to be on the phishing blacklist, but after some nagging by us and The Register, they've mostly plugged the security holes involved. The blacklist is updated every 3 hours, so companies that clean up their act quickly don't stay on the list for long.

      Domains on the blacklist are usually 1) free hosting services, 2) URL redirectors like TinyURL, 3) DSL providers with weak abuse departments, and 4) sites with a software bug that lets other sites use them as a redirector. Some companies in those categories are good at quickly cleaning out such abuses; others just don't seem to care. In each category, there are plenty of companies who don't have such problems, so there's no reason to give anybody a free pass.

      It says something about a company's abuse department if they're on that list for more than a day or two.

  9. Contempt of Court by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Just throw the CEO in jail already...

  10. Fraud is a good business model by Locke2005 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Enzyte, despite the conviction of the founder and his mom for fraud, is still in business. They are still heavily advertising on TV, and apparently they are expanding and hiring. So there doing quite well for a company whose business model was proven unlawful in court.

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  11. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  12. Pyramid Scheme? by TheModelEskimo · · Score: 3, Funny

    Is this one of those multi-level marketing (a.k.a. pyramid) schemes? I cannot WAIT for my neighbor with the jacked up Humvee to scrape the "MONA VIE" crap off his back windshield and replace it with a bunch of l33t h4x0r jargon. :-)

    1. Re:Pyramid Scheme? by homer_s · · Score: 2, Funny

      Is this one of those multi-level marketing (a.k.a. pyramid) schemes?

      Nope. Their model is a trapezoid - much more stable.

  13. Ars Technica was a little skeptical too by e9th · · Score: 5, Informative
    Last March, Ars Technica wrote:

    Zer01 says it can offer unlimited cell calls (via VoIP) and cell data through a unique relationship with AT&T. AT&T isn't talking, and the particulars of the deal fly in the face of similar virtual mobile network operator deals past and present.

  14. Movie in 3 minutes? No problem...! by Joce640k · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You can have a two hour movie at 1080p resolution in 1Mb of data if you're not too fussy about image quality.

     

    Resolution is one thing, bitrate is something else.

    --
    No sig today...
    1. Re:Movie in 3 minutes? No problem...! by CecilPL · · Score: 5, Funny

      Here's an example - Star Wars EpIV in 10MB. I'm pretty sure you could compress this below a meg.

      And you can make it 1080p if you increase your font size!

  15. Everything you know is wrong! by snspdaarf · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Interesting that he can get salespeople to pay him to work for him. All that crap they taught me in school about wages and salary obviously was backwards.

    --
    Why, without your clothes, you're naked, Miss Dudley!
  16. Nice try, submitter by Bookem+Danno · · Score: 4, Funny

    You don't want me to sign up so that when it turns out to be AWESOME later on, you can get 10$/mo for referring me.
    I'm on to your scheme, I WILL BUY A DOZEN!

  17. Re:The lies! by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 4, Insightful

    He's not selling to technical people who can do the math.

    He's selling to people who will hear the pitch and think, "Holy shit, people will line up around the block to get HD movies on their cell and plug it into their TV! I've GOT to invest in this right now, and get in on the ground floor."

    Look at what he's got already: postive reviews, awards, and a front page on /. I guarantee you that the next rounds of adverts in an investment magazine will have these awards highlighted.

    "Holy shit, not only is this a great-sounding idea, but it's won a CTIA award. It's... fucking legitimate! Cut this guy a cheque, and do it before some other asshole does!"

    The system requires travelling to other dimensions with different physics in order to work, but other than that, it's a great idea.

    --

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    ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
  18. scams and profit by tommyatomic · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Rarely do fake pyramid scam companies collect real income in a recession with the increasing number of sufficient savvy consumers increasing. Therefore they must get their employees to pay the company instead of paying their employees. Its a law of reverse proportions scams (I made that law up).

    Step 1 Create fake miracle product.
    Step 2 Hire employees as product advocates swearing by the awesome majesty of imaginary hardware/service.
    Step 3 Convince employees to pay employer instead of being paid themselves.
    Step 4 PROFIT!!!!!!!!!! and Create a new identity to hide from the multi-state angry mob of rightfully vengeful customers.

    1. Re:scams and profit by nietsch · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The trick is to scam the scammers. Find other 'salespeople' and give them enough hints that this may be a profitable scam. Paying to get in is a subtle trick to get your salespeople more commited (they already have something at stake) and to give them the impression they can really make some serious money with this. Somebody must have done the maths on this after all? (yes, and those people politely decline...)

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  19. Re:The lies! by Antony+T+Curtis · · Score: 4, Funny

    The system requires travelling to other dimensions with different physics in order to work, but other than that, it's a great idea.

    Oh great. You had to do it didn't you? You've just provided them a citable reference that they can use to claim "Out of this world service".

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    No sig. Move along - nothing to see here.
  20. Ditto the fundraising organizations by tompaulco · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Fundraising organizations that help schools, churches, etc raise money for projects are equally as bad as MLM. They are essentially getting FREE labor, and not paying into Social Security, Medicare, providing benefits or anything. Many times the schools have to pay up front for a certain amount of product, and if they don't sell it they are stuck with it. There is almost no risk for the fundraising organization while the school or Church or whatever shoulders most of the risk or shares the risk with the parents of the underage labor pool. Meanwhile, the corporate campuses of some of these outfits are just insanely lavish and huge. Their only real cost of business is sending people out to beat the drums at the schools and churches.

    --
    If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
  21. Re:And yet he's out...? by palegray.net · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Let me help you out. You see, his attorney actually went to law school with the judge. His son is dating the DA's daughter, and a generous contribution to his campaign for re-election has recently been made by an anonymous donor.