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How They Built the Software of Apollo 11

LinuxScribe tips a piece up at Linux.com with inside details on the design and construction of the Apollo 11 code. There are some analogies to open source development but they are slim. MIT drafted the code — to run on the Apollo Guidance Computer, a device with less grunt than an IBM XT — it had 2K of memory and a 1-MHz clock speed. It was an amazing machine for its time. NASA engineers tested, polished, simulated, and refined the code. "The software was programmed on IBM punch cards. They had 80-columns and were 'assembled' to instruction binary on mainframes... and it took hours. ... During the mission, most of the software code couldn't be changed because it was hard-coded into the hardware, like ROM today... But during pre-launch design simulations, problems that came up in the code could sometimes be finessed by... computer engineers using a small amount of erasable memory that was available for the programs. The software used a low-level assembly language and was controlled using pairs or segments of numbers entered into a square-shaped, numeric-only keyboard called a Display and Keyboard Unit... The two-digit codes stood for 'nouns' or 'verbs,' and were used to enter commands or data, such as spacecraft docking angles or time spans for operations." Reader Smark adds, "The Google Code Blog announced today that the Virtual AGC and AGS project has transcribed the Command Module and Lunar Excursion Module code used during the Apollo 11 moon landing. The code is viewable at the VirtualAGC Google Code Page."

220 comments

  1. Fake by Yuioup · · Score: 4, Funny

    Wow. They sure went out of their way to fake the moon landing. I bet the source-code is fake too :-P

    Y

    1. Re:Fake by bAdministrator · · Score: 2, Funny

      lol Cheyenne Mountain doesn't exist.

    2. Re:Fake by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      The software used a low-level assembly language and was controlled using ... numbers entered into a square-shaped, numeric-only keyboard called a Display and Keyboard Unit

      I'm inclined to agree with the parent. This sounds just like the input methods of a Ti-86 calculator...

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    3. Re:Fake by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 2, Funny

      Wow. They sure went out of their way to fake the moon landing. I bet the source-code is fake too :-PY

      No, they couldn't have written in Python as it wasn't even a gleam in Guido's eye yet.

    4. Re:Fake by MichaelSmith · · Score: 5, Informative

      This is an Apollo DSKY BTW. A Classic command would have been

      [VERB]66[PRO]

      Which loosely translated means give me manual control, I need to land this sucker. If you watch the descent movies you will hear "P66" being called out by the LMP a few minutes before landing. Interesting to note that the 6 is right beside PRO. I wonder if there is a bit of clever UI design in that.

    5. Re:Fake by elrous0 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I sure hope it's not fake code. I'm a time traveling entrepreneur, and I'm going to make a FORTUNE selling this to the Russians in 1965.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    6. Re:Fake by commodore64_love · · Score: 5, Informative

      This Apollo computer has specs almost identical to ancient 1970s home technologies like the Atari VCS/2600 game console (1 megahertz, 2K ROM). Or an Atari 400/Commodore VIC-20 computers (1 megahertz, ~8K RAM). That gives you a rough idea of how "weak" the computer inside Apollo truly was.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    7. Re:Fake by CWRUisTakingMyMoney · · Score: 4, Informative

      Just to be pedantic, it was actually the Commander (Armstrong) who actually flew the LM to the surface, not the misnomered LMP, who mainly monitored things and called out warnings and readings. So if anyone said P66 (which the transcript doesn't indicate literally happened), it was more likely the Commander, who would've entered the program. The transcript has Armstrong saying "I'm going to..." when he goes into P66.

      --
      Those who anthropomorphize science and/or nature already believe in an intelligent designer.
    8. Re:Fake by TheLink · · Score: 1

      For more perspective, PC keyboard controllers are similar in processing power to something like this: http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/8048/Intel-P8048.html

      --
    9. Re:Fake by GeorgeStone22 · · Score: 1

      The Russians didn't even use computers to guide their version of the lunar lander. They had mechanical controls in the form of what looked like a giant handbrake.

    10. Re:Fake by iocat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think you've got the analogy backwards. It actually shows how powerful and capable those early micros were. Kind of embarassing when your multi-gigahertz PC can barely run a word processor, or stalls when trying to display a photo, huh?

      --

      Dude, I think I can see my house from here.

    11. Re:Fake by gefafwysp · · Score: 1

      Boy, I wish all the conspiracy theorists would just VERB 37 ENTER 00 ENTER.

    12. Re:Fake by Demonantis · · Score: 2, Informative

      Your statement is misleading. These beastly machines that we use are expected to be able to do a huge range of operations. The apollo computers were programmed to do a specific set of tasks and calculations. If given enough resources anyone could design a reliable computer that only did word processing or number crunching with amazing reliability.

    13. Re:Fake by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      I think you've got the analogy backwards. It actually shows how powerful and capable those early micros were. Kind of embarassing when your multi-gigahertz PC can barely run a word processor, or stalls when trying to display a photo, huh?

      Of course those early micros relied mostly on ROM according to TFA and didn't have to wait for disk i/o. The CPU is rarely the bottleneck in a modern computer system....

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    14. Re:Fake by commodore64_love · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >>>Kind of embarassing when your multi-gigahertz PC can barely run a word processor, or stalls when trying to display a photo, huh?
      >>>

      No not really. If I tried to run a modern word processor on an Atari or Commodore computer, it wouldn't even fit. And by the time you stripped-out enough code to make it fit, you'd have a plainjane processor with fixed fonts that are bitmapped and not scalable (i.e. no postscript encapsulation). You'd have pixelated printouts not clean professional documents like today's machines produce.

      As for photos, it used to take my Commodore 64 ten minutes to display a simple 320x240 VGA image. If it tried to display one of today's typical 16-million-color photos, first it wouldn't fit into the available memory, and second it probably would take a full day of number-crunching, displaying just one scanline every half hour.

      Even newer machines like PowerPC Macs have trouble with our modern technologies. I tried to watch an AVI movie on my 400 megahertz PPC, and it was like watching slow motion. Modern tasks demand a fast clock.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    15. Re:Fake by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      ENGINES OFF. ...
      COMPLETED

      (You probably meant verb 36 - "fuck". Ooops. I guess you're in for a hard landing.)

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    16. Re:Fake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Apollo computer was somewhat faster than those old computers.

      It used a 16bit word both internally and in RAM, so it's 2K memory is more like 4KB, and could carry out a number of operations at once on each tick.

      I'd say it was about four times faster than a VIC-20.

    17. Re:Fake by LWATCDR · · Score: 3, Informative

      "That gives you a rough idea of how "weak" the computer inside Apollo truly was."
      Or how strong the programmers where.
      Most of the code in most programs is for things like UI, security, data validation, help systems and so on.
      Very little code is there to do the actual work.
      The Apollo system was built to be used by a few highly trained people. It didn't need a help system.
      I would rather think of how good the programmers where and frankly the hardware people where than compare it to what we have 40 years latter.
      If you want to think about just how far they had come how fast.
      This was built only 42 years before men landed on the moon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_of_St._Louis
      I would say holy freaking jump batman for the moon landing!

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    18. Re:Fake by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Kind of embarassing when your multi-gigahertz PC can barely run a word processor, or stalls when trying to display a photo, huh?

      Because Neil and Buzz knew better than to have a 2-gig screensaver of their fluffy dog.
         

    19. Re:Fake by icebrain · · Score: 1

      Assuming that's true (can't verify ATM), that was actually probably simulating the collective control on a helicopter, which is mounted to the left of the pilot and operates with a handbrake-like motion.

      --
      The meek may inherit the earth, but the strong shall take the stars.
    20. Re:Fake by SpinyNorman · · Score: 1

      Hardly - the code in the Apollo guidance computer isn't going to have been doing anything very fancy. Just implementing a few formulae or control algorithms.

      I'm sure there were many more way advanced things done on early home computers of similar specs. My first was a Z80 based NASCOM-1 in 1978 which was also had a 1MHz clock, but only 1K of RAM for the user as opposed to the 2K the Apollo computer had a decade earlier. They were lucky!

      Even in 1K you could write a basic line editor or graphical (ASCII art) hangman game, which in reality is probably just as complex as what the Apollo computer was doing code-wise, even if their application domain was a tad more exciting. We'd also write self-modifying oode due to space/speed contraints, which used to be fun (e.g. write a loop where an address is nominally hard-coded, but in fact changes since you're writing to the address portion of that machine instruction).

      The Apollo code was rather the opposite to self-modifying - it was physically woven out of wires ard ferrite cores!

    21. Re:Fake by Hatta · · Score: 1

      No not really. If I tried to run a modern word processor on an Atari or Commodore computer, it wouldn't even fit. And by the time you stripped-out enough code to make it fit, you'd have a plainjane processor with fixed fonts that are bitmapped and not scalable (i.e. no postscript encapsulation). You'd have pixelated printouts not clean professional documents like today's machines produce.

      But you'd still have a processor. 3000X the clock speed and 77000X the ram, and what do we get? Scalable fonts, whoopee. Sure that's useful, but it's not 3000X as useful. That's the point here, the capabilities of our computers haven't scaled as fast as the hardware has.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    22. Re:Fake by RenderSeven · · Score: 1

      If I tried to run a modern word processor on an Atari or Commodore computer, it wouldn't even fit

      Just for perspective every few years I drag my home built CPM80 2.7mhz 32k ram Z80 dual 8" floppys and fire up Wordstar. Its primitive by almost any measure, but its impressive how much it did and how well. It is certainly usable to write documents, especially if you already know how to spell. (Although it did in fact have a serviceable spell checker). Im not saying Id trade my laptop in, but with 1000x increase in processor speed, 1000x increase in memory and 1000x increase in disk, I'll give Word/Openoffice 10x improvement in useability.

      Its a good reminder what can be accomplished with minimal resources.

    23. Re:Fake by icebike · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not powerful in any meaningful sense. Just incredibly robust and failure tolerant.

      Some might remember the 1202 alarm when the LEM commander had to take over manual control and land the LEM because, according to the mainstream press, the computer crashed.

      Well, it turns out it was not quite that simple. Human error led to the computer reaching a PLANNED restart point. This restart was essentially instant, dumping tasks it could not handle due to missing data, and picking up where it left off.

      Aldrin, due to the closeness of the landing decided to take over manually as he had trained to do hundreds of times in the simulator.

      But the computer did not fail, it restarted, as programmed, and was back on line long before he even got his hand off the switch.

        http://history.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/a11.1201-pa.html

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    24. Re:Fake by interploy · · Score: 1

      I guess that puts Sony's warnings about using a PlayStation as a missile guidance system into perspective.

    25. Re:Fake by farnsaw · · Score: 1

      Interestingly enough, it was common practice to provide output codes that referred to actual printed manuals rather than wasting memory on a stirng of characters that actually told what the message was. When the code came up, and they didn't immediately know what it was, they grabbed the big white notebook and looked it up. Believe me, when you have 1K of RAM to work with, you would much rather output 42 (1 byte integer) rather than the string "The answer to life, the universe, and everything" (49 bytes including the null terminator).

      --
      "Computer Scientists can count to 1024 on their fingers" (non-mutant, non-mutilatated, human computer scientists)
    26. Re:Fake by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Kind of embarassing when your multi-gigahertz PC can barely run a word processor, or stalls when trying to display a photo, huh?

      Not really. My "multi-gigahertz" PC is doing vastly more complicated and dynamic calculations and running software developed at a fraction of the cost.

    27. Re:Fake by irae · · Score: 1

      That's the point here, the capabilities of our computers haven't scaled as fast as the hardware has.

      You don't play games, do you?

    28. Re:Fake by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "Your statement is misleading. These beastly machines that we use are expected to be able to do a huge range of operations. The apollo computers were programmed to do a specific set of tasks and calculations. If given enough resources anyone could design a reliable computer that only did word processing or number crunching with amazing reliability."

      Another way of looking at it...they were constrained on what all they could program the things to do, due to size and power of computing back then. I'm sure they would have liked to have done MUCH more, but, just had to program in the basics they HAD to have into the space given.

      That being said, man, the more I hear about this, I'm amazed they pulled it off. I mean, those guys had some real cajones on them...trusting their lives, and this whole unknown world to some tin, and computing power I basically have on my wrist watch.

      I wonder, given the money we have (or had till past few years before debt-zilla struck), and the technology we have...why we haven't in decades been able to pull it together to go back to the moon, or beyond?

      Maybe as a country, we have just lost our 'will' to do things?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    29. Re:Fake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought it was because of too much input from the ground radar being left on causing an "overload" of info to process and they never actually simulated the ground radar for real to catch the error.

    30. Re:Fake by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>But you'd still have a processor. 3000X the clock speed and 77000X the ram, and what do we get?

      You get a resume that you can hand-over in an interview, instead of the pixelated dot-matrix mess that a Commodore 64 would produce (okay for schoolwork but NOT acceptable elsewhere). i.e. Now we have professional-quality printers.

      You can get music that sounds as good as a CD, instead of 8-bit music that one of my coworkers described as "noise" when I played it for him. (Here take a listen for yourself - http://www.lemon64.com/music )

      You get high-speed on-demand SD video which would be impossible over the C64's limited 9.6 kbit/s external bus. Or if you download first and watch later, your modern PC or Mac can display high-definition full-color video just like a television. Even the best 8-bit computer could only do a grainy black-and-white (forget color - the processor is too slow).

      I know what my name is, but I also know the things we do today would be impossible on those old machines. Or even a ten-year-old machine. The clock speeds are too slow.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    31. Re:Fake by icebike · · Score: 1

      The software engineer says different.

      He's closer to the source than I by several orders of magnitude.

      He said is was switch settings causing missing data, and it never happened on any other landings.

      I can't imagine not testing with ground radar, since that was the principal function of that program.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    32. Re:Fake by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Ditto GEOS on the 64 (which acts like a Mac 64k).

      But I think it's a mistake to say we need 1000x CPU speed to write a document. Most of what we do today with word processors is virtually identical to what an old Quadra Macintosh or Commodore Amiga could do, and they only ran ~25 megahertz.

      The reason we need these uber-3000 megahertz PCs today is because a Quadra Mac or Amiga cannot playback CD quality music, or DVD-quality videos. That desire to turn a computer into an entertainment center is what drove the development forward, not the writing software.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    33. Re:Fake by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Back in the day, I had a TRS-80 that ran a word processor called LeScript that did do proportionally spaced justification. With the right printer (like a daisy wheel), it was capable of producing excellent output.

      That actually ran on a 48K machine (I think it would have worked on a 32K) with a 1.77 MHz Z80 and a pair of 40K disk drives (or had I upgraded to 80K by then?). Nothing I've got in the house, including my phone, is less than a thousand times as powerful in any reasonable metric.

      Modern programs aren't a thousand times as good as what I had back then.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    34. Re:Fake by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Good point.

      On those old 70s-era home computers, they did much the same thing as the Apollo's computer. Instead of getting a readable error, the machine would just hand you a number (?ERROR 42) and then the user was expected to reach for the manual to discover what that meant. Using 1 byte errors instead of long multibyte sentences saved precious ROM space (which was typically 4K or less).

      BTW the Atari VCS/ 2600 game console? It only had 128 bytes of RAM. That's a heck of a lot smaller than say, a PS1, with its ~4 million bytes of RAM. The men who programmed those ancient Atari games had to make very, very efficient code.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    35. Re:Fake by Hatta · · Score: 1

      I know what my name is, but I also know the things we do today would be impossible on those old machines. Or even a ten-year-old machine. The clock speeds are too slow.

      Yes, this is true. That's not the point. The clock speeds of computers have gotten faster. The capabilities of these computers have also gotten better. The question is, have they both improved at the same rate? I don't think so. I think if you quantified "capability" somehow, and plotted it vs clock speed, it would improve at a less than linear rate.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    36. Re:Fake by SCHecklerX · · Score: 1

      uh. that's the point the gp was making.

    37. Re:Fake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, what do you mean about the 6 being beside PRO? In terms of UI design, that is.

    38. Re:Fake by rhsanborn · · Score: 1

      Also note, that while it may write documents and the new word processors only have say, 10x the functionality for you, it doesn't mean they don't have 1000x the functionality as a whole. First, they likely include elements you don't use, but that others couldn't live without. Second, the amount of computing power to do some of the more advanced tasks really may be 1000x more. Consider adding photos from a digital camera into a document and having it scale the image appropriately, reflow the text, and do it all really quickly. Document templates, integration with the internet, collaboration, document versioning and revision logs, etc. I think ti's subjective to say these things are 10x, 100x, or 1000x the functional increase over earlier technologies that didn't have these capabilities. It's more appropriate to look at the computing power behind what it takes to do these things and consider the amount of power to do those things.

    39. Re:Fake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would rather think of how good the programmers where and frankly the hardware people where

      There, and there!

    40. Re:Fake by valinor89 · · Score: 1

      Good point.

      On those old 70s-era home computers, they did much the same thing as the Apollo's computer. Instead of getting a readable error, the machine would just hand you a number (?ERROR 42) and then the user was expected to reach for the manual to discover what that meant. Using 1 byte errors instead of long multibyte sentences saved precious ROM space (which was typically 4K or less).

      Isn't this what almost every OS, program, protocol, etc does? And now we have GBs of HDD.... Oh, and the BSoD clearly give you clear and detailed explanations...

    41. Re:Fake by Nethead · · Score: 1

      I remember writing a Mandelbrot program for the c64. I even wrote my own machine code (128 byte) to poke the pixels. It would take over night to just render one screen in monochrome. That was like in '89 IIRC.

      --
      -- I have a private email server in my basement.
    42. Re:Fake by iluvcapra · · Score: 1

      So if anyone said P66 (which the transcript [nasa.gov] doesn't indicate literally happened), it was more likely the Commander, who would've entered the program.

      Pedantic 2x: It's true that the Commander would pilot the LM and use the LPD to pick the landing site, and literally had his hand on ths stick, but Buzz was the one specifically charged with operating the computer. Neil would ask to see numbers and go into programs, and Buzz would enter the commands, so Neil didn't have to take his eyes off the window or hands off the controls.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    43. Re:Fake by Lisandro · · Score: 1

      I think you've got the analogy backwards. It actually shows how powerful and capable those early micros were. Kind of embarrassing when your multi-gigahertz PC can barely run a word processor, or stalls when trying to display a photo, huh?

      It has been said before, but spaceflight (specially to the moon and back) is a rather simple problem computationally.

      Now, i don't mean to diminish the incredible work that went into the design of the flight computer and the Apollo 11 program in general, nor defend the incompetence of programmers nowadays :) Those kind of microprocessors are still in use (specially in embeeded systems) and are extremely useful, but claiming that they're "powerful" just because they helped landing on the moon is rather inaccurate.

    44. Re:Fake by ozbird · · Score: 1

      Fast forward to 2001. Instead of HAL9000, we have (or had) Clippy. "In space no one can hear you scream."

    45. Re:Fake by instagib · · Score: 1

      The nice thing though was, you could keep it running beside your bed - no noise. Take that, water cooling!

    46. Re:Fake by Lisandro · · Score: 1

      No not really. If I tried to run a modern word processor on an Atari or Commodore computer, it wouldn't even fit. And by the time you stripped-out enough code to make it fit, you'd have a plainjane processor with fixed fonts that are bitmapped and not scalable (i.e. no postscript encapsulation). You'd have pixelated printouts not clean professional documents like today's machines produce.

      GeoPublish supported Postcript, and this is on a C64. The whole GEOS suit was amazing for the time - it had a "modern" WYSIWYG word processor, spreadsheet, presentation & drawing software, fax support, the works. You'd be surprised of what you could do on one of those.

    47. Re:Fake by instagib · · Score: 1

      Right. Without multimedia (and Javascript ;-) on computers, we would still be happy with a processor from the 80s. But if you think of it, with the exception of email, almost everything else has to do with pictures, audio, and video today.

    48. Re:Fake by Nethead · · Score: 1

      I had an sx-64 (the luggable) which most common failure was to blow the fuse that was wrapped in the coil of the power transformer. Sometimes wish it did have a fan. Though the most common failure mode was to pull a modem off the user port at an angle and short the 9VAC tabs. Bam! dead $600 computer.

      --
      -- I have a private email server in my basement.
    49. Re:Fake by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Sorry, what do you mean about the 6 being beside PRO? In terms of UI design, that is.

      Because it is an easy finger movement. A bit like how "nb" or "hg" are easy to type on a qwerty keyboard. P66 was something of a turning point for the crew. I believe it had special significance for them.

    50. Re:Fake by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Just to be pedantic, it was actually the Commander (Armstrong) who actually flew the LM to the surface, not the misnomered LMP, who mainly monitored things and called out warnings and readings. So if anyone said P66 (which the transcript doesn't indicate literally happened), it was more likely the Commander, who would've entered the program. The transcript has Armstrong saying "I'm going to..." when he goes into P66.

      You might hear P66 twice. Once when the commander asks for it, then a second time when the LMP enters the verb and echoes the new mode verbally to the CDR. Often though the LMP got to be able to read the CDRs mind about this. The last couple of minutes of the landing were heavily drilled.

      It doesn't surprise me that its not in the apollo 11 transcript. I was talking generally about all the flights. The breakdown in the division of responsibility between Armstrong and Aldrin has been discussed many times. The CDR had his attention in the cockpit because of the executive overflow problems (1202) in the PNGS. Consequently he let the LM get too low before he designated a good landing site and wasted fuel finding a smooth spot.

      But as the other poster said. The commander flys the vehicle and the LM pilot drives the computer. Communication between them is verbal which is why you hear the modes being called out.

      The Apollo 17 ALSJ is a good read. You can hear how the crew were continually hazing their rookie scientist Harrison Schmitt. At one point during the landing he calls out to Cernan that the descent rate is ...um.... a little bit too fast.

    51. Re:Fake by Linuxmonger · · Score: 1

      If you ever get a chance, give AppleWorks a try on an Apple ][e running 1MHz with 32KB of RAM, it was an amazing program. I don't remember ever having it crash, it integrated a word processor, spreadsheet and database well, and was easier to use than most anything I've used since.

  2. Space, Spacecraft *and* Code by MrKaos · · Score: 5, Funny

    I think I just had a geekgasm.

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    1. Re:Space, Spacecraft *and* Code by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Wow, I'm glad I didn't see your comment before I took Tami to D'arcy's Pint last week! She's about five foot nothing or shorter and over 200 pounds*, and as we were walking to the car she said "I just had a food orgasm".

      If I'd seen your post I'd probably stuck my foot in my mouth and said "a fatgasm?"

      That would not have been pretty...

      *She has a boyfriend, and it isn't me. he works at D'Arcy's, I can't figure out why he's jealous

    2. Re:Space, Spacecraft *and* Code by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Who's up for a flash mob at Tranquility Base?

  3. README.txt by Norsefire · · Score: 4, Funny

    For Vista, the following steps may need to be performed manually after installation:

    1.
    2.

    -- README.txt

    Wow, even rocket scientists don't know how to make code work on Vista.

    1. Re:README.txt by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's because Microsoft tries very hard to convince everyone by developing Visual Studio that programming for Windows isn't rocket science. Which is why rocket scientists can't program for Windows.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  4. Proper Old Skool by Goth+Biker+Babe · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As some one old enough to enter raw hex in to a hex keypad on a machine with an LED display having hand assembled the code in the back of her math exercise book during a math lesson (when I should have been learning stats) this doesn't sound too different.

    1. Re:Proper Old Skool by Norsefire · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Except if you screwed up you didn't cause several people to explode.

    2. Re:Proper Old Skool by MichaelSmith · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It was amazing they did so well on Apollo. The only real guidance screw up was on Apollo 11. Every other landing was spot on. Apollo 12 had been targeted for the middle of surveyor crater and was dead on when Pete Conrad got his first look at the landing sight. He had to fly manually to avoid the target.

    3. Re:Proper Old Skool by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 5, Funny

      As some one old enough to enter raw hex in to a hex keypad on a machine with an LED display having hand assembled the code in the back of her math exercise book during a math lesson (when I should have been learning stats) this doesn't sound too different.

      You kids and yer "raw hex keypads" and "LED readouts." Why, back in my day, we had toggle switches and light bulbs! And we liked it that way! Now you kids get off my law.....hey, wait...you're a girl? You can stay. :)

    4. Re:Proper Old Skool by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      Except if you screwed up you didn't cause several people to explode.

      Well, ya never know with power supplies back then...

    5. Re:Proper Old Skool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bah! electronics. I had to program processes in pneumatics for hazardous environments. You kids and your electrons. Bah!

    6. Re:Proper Old Skool by Stele · · Score: 3, Informative

      I don't believe there was a screw up of computer guidance in Apollo 11. Armstrong landed way off-target because there were large boulders in the way that weren't accounted for properly in the survey photos. This is why they used up almost all of their descent fuel.

    7. Re:Proper Old Skool by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Exactly. my first computer was a KIM-1 single board that you had to convert your assembler to hex yourself. I did it so much I compiled assembler in my head.

      I find it hilarious when programmers today freak out if they don't have 900 metric tons of libraries to use when they program and a nice glossy IDE.

      Plus the article summary is misleading, the computer in the lander was lower power in processing than my watch or my old TI scientific calculator. Calling it less powerful than a IBM pc XT is not giving it enough credit.

      The typical laptop today has more processing power than the entire planet had back in the 60's.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    8. Re:Proper Old Skool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The problem with Apollo 11's guidance wasn't the equpment, it was the moon. Look up MASCONs. Essentially, the moon's density varies from spot to spot and these differences in density changed the gravitational force affecting the LM during its descent. This, in turn, added errors that couldn't be accounted for, pre-flight.

      What they did on subsequent flights was to use radar doppler data on the LM as it came around from the backside of the moon to determine the difference between the expected flight path and the actual flight path. Once they had this data, they updated the LM's guidance computer to correct for this effect.

      One trickiness is that the state vector of the LM was a 6-tuple. Rather than update the state vector, they figured out that they could just update the range to the landing site by updating 1 number.

      Google search for Emil Scheisser. He's the guy who figured this out.

    9. Re:Proper Old Skool by icebrain · · Score: 5, Informative

      They overshot the original intended landing point by about 4 miles because of a timing error--the descent burn started about four seconds late.

      The rocks-and-boulders-and-crater thing you're thinking of was a different issue.

      --
      The meek may inherit the earth, but the strong shall take the stars.
    10. Re:Proper Old Skool by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps I should have included the reference to her writing raw hex too.

      Seriously, what the hell? Are you the real AcidBurn?

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    11. Re:Proper Old Skool by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Several? Oh c'mon, three, tops.

      I hate it when people exaggerate.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    12. Re:Proper Old Skool by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Nobody exploded. Three astronauts burned to death in the Apollo 1 fire, but they didn't explode. That was the Space Shuttle Challenger.

      And neither of those tragedies had anything to do with software; in both cases, it was hardware design flaws. In Apollo 1 the mistake was using pure oxygen in the cabin, where a spark could incinerate everyone and everything in there (as well as the malfunctioning hardware that caused the spark), in the case of the Challenger it was a management mistake, as the engineeers didn't trust the booster's O rings in sub-freezing weather, but their supervisors didn't pass the word along to Mission Control.

      Even the Columbia accident had nothing to do with software; it was a piece of frozen foam that knocked off heat tiles from the wing's leading edge.

    13. Re:Proper Old Skool by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Informative

      The typical keyboard has more than most computers in the 60s. The average gamer keyboard boasts more processing and storage power than the average computer of the 70s.

      Basically, they flew to the moon on two keyboards and a programmable mouse.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    14. Re:Proper Old Skool by maxume · · Score: 1

      According to Feynman, Challenger wasn't a result of not passing the word, it was a result of blatant technical illiteracy; seeing that the o-rings only burned about 1/3 of the way through in testing, the managers recorded that they provided a safety factor of 3, when the 'engineering' viewpoint would be that they failed. Wikipedia walks through it:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman#Challenger_disaster

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    15. Re:Proper Old Skool by SethJohnson · · Score: 1

      And neither of those tragedies had anything to do with software

      Glad they didn't hire those Lockheed-Martin programmers who forgot Nasa had standardized on the Metric system before the Mars Climate Orbiter Mission. Oops!

      On a side note, Science Fiction author, Frederik Pohl, posted an interesting anecdote about the first Apollo moon landing.

      Seth

    16. Re:Proper Old Skool by Brett+Buck · · Score: 1

      That's only part of the problem. They were low/long from PDI (power descent initiation) at least partly because of the moon's lumpy gravity, that was poorly understood at the time. That's bascially right from the start. Armstrong noted this in his landmark checks all being about 2 seconds early, which is something like 6000-8000 feet.

                Brett

    17. Re:Proper Old Skool by Goth+Biker+Babe · · Score: 1

      a) I have, in fact danced at slimes, sunday night laughtons, friday night laughtons and infest. I used to be mopey mopey hand stapled to forehead and still am on occasion but I'm not averse to a little dayglow and glowsticks when the mood requires.

      b) I rode a Z750 to April Whitby.

      c) A babe?? Some may think so.

      d) Female. Check

      e) Yup. Check.

      LOL...

    18. Re:Proper Old Skool by infolation · · Score: 4, Informative

      The LM initially overshot because the crew were distracted by alarms caused by the computer being unable to process all its tasks simultaneously. These alarms, in turn, had been triggered because ground simulations hadn't taken account of hardware powering up in a random order which generated data from two radars instead of one, which overloaded the computer.

      Armstrong's boulder avoidance flying was undertaken after the crew realised they'd overshot the target site by 4 seconds.

      (Unfortunately I find this subject insanely fascinating)

    19. Re:Proper Old Skool by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Armstrong's boulder avoidance flying was undertaken after the crew realised they'd overshot the target site by 4 seconds.

      But the boulders were smaller than what the orbital surveys could detect at the time. It was just the luck of the draw. There may have been boulders at the original target also.

       

    20. Re:Proper Old Skool by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      No. "Arrogance" was the main factor, plus pressure from above (Congress) to demonstrate that the space program was not just a waste of money. The manufacturer who built the booster rockets called NASA on the day of launch and advised it was too cold to launch, but NASA management decided to ignore that advice because they felt NASA cold do no wrong, and also because they were afraid if the schedule slipped they'd have to face Congressional hearings.

      What killed the astronauts that day was a stubborn decision to not listen to good advice. Sometimes people just become "bullheaded" and whoever made the launch decision at NASA was suffering from that disease.

      He gambled; he lost.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    21. Re:Proper Old Skool by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Toggle switches? LEDs? Bah!

      In World War 2 us submariners used targeting computers that were nothing but gears and rotary dials. Turn the dial to set distance and speed. Turn another dial to set target speed and bearing. Then read-off the solution on a third dial. We didn't need to stinkin' lights! ;-)

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    22. Re:Proper Old Skool by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      And about 1 trillion dollars in debt that we grandchildren are still paying-off. Thanks grandma/grandpa or mom/dad.

      (Sorry I know people hate when reality enters the picture, but that's just the way it is. I'd rather face the hard facts than deny them.)

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    23. Re:Proper Old Skool by Kuroji · · Score: 1

      Best analogy ever. This would, of course, be the one day where I end up without mod points.

    24. Re:Proper Old Skool by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that Mars thing was an embarrasment. Coincidentally, I posted a journal yesterday morning with almost the same name as the Pohl piece you linked that was posted last night.

      I never got to meet any or the astronauts, though, just saw the landing on TV.

    25. Re:Proper Old Skool by Beelzebud · · Score: 1

      And it was worth every penny. Money isn't everything...

    26. Re:Proper Old Skool by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Well, *now* (s)he's a girl. ^^

      Girls in school hand-assembling code... ...only in your dreams, my friend! Only in your dreams...

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    27. Re:Proper Old Skool by sconeu · · Score: 1

      The cost of Project Apollo was $25 Billion.

      Nice try, though.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    28. Re:Proper Old Skool by Stele · · Score: 1

      Ah yes I had forgotten about that.

      Incidentally, one of the best "documentaries" of our work towards the moon is HBO's "From the Earth to the Moon." After watching that I picked up a couple of books, including "Apollo", which have an incredible amount of detail about the whole process.

      For example, the shear complexity of the Saturn V engines. The thing looks like just a big simple rocket but these suckers are incredibly complex and that they worked at all is amazing.

    29. Re:Proper Old Skool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why, back in my day, we had toggle switches and light bulbs!)

      I remember debugging that way. The machine we ran the software on didn't have a keyboard. We loaded the compiled code from tape, then set breakpoints using toggle switches, and the light bulbs told us where we were and what the state of the memory was.

      I am not joking.

    30. Re:Proper Old Skool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Several? Oh c'mon, three, tops.

      several

      2 a: more than one b: more than two but fewer than many

      http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/several

    31. Re:Proper Old Skool by MrPhilby · · Score: 1

      Young uns never coded with chained together relays then?

    32. Re:Proper Old Skool by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Okay my off-the-cuff estimate was off, but that's still approximately 200 billion spent in today's dollars. Times a conservative 5% loan interest over forty years gives an overall debt load of around 1.2 trillion dollars.

      Hmmm. I guess my estimate was pretty close after all.

      As for people saying it was "worth it", that's what my dad said when he bought a $100,000 Ferrari back in the 80s but now the car is wrecked, and he has nothing saved for his retirement (just a few thousand), so he's living like a poor man. You know those commercials showing old people eating dog food? Well that's not him but it's pretty close. NOW he wishes he had never bought the Ferrari and instead invested his money.

      Anyway if we had turned the moon into a colony, to be used to explore further into space, then I would think it was worth it. But we didn't. We just went on a little 1 trillion dollar vacation to the moon. That same amount of money could have bought every American citizen free healthcare for the last forty years (approximately).

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    33. Re:Proper Old Skool by Nethead · · Score: 1

      I just saw a show on the German V2 of WW2 last night. I couldn't believe how complex those things were for the time, and that the Germans were building and firing 700 a month at one point. Of course they were able to by actually working to death tens of thousands of Jews. Sad and strange things us humans do.

      --
      -- I have a private email server in my basement.
    34. Re:Proper Old Skool by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      I read elsewhere that the German rocket program killed more Germans than Allies by a wide margin.

    35. Re:Proper Old Skool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      --> Emil Schiesser, actually. Quite an important distinction as anyone speaking German will tell you.

      (Since schiess___ means shoot, while scheiss___ means shit.)

    36. Re:Proper Old Skool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are calculating inflation on inflation. And you're not even doing it right! The loan would have been for 5% interst on the original $25 billion. Assuming we've paid nothing but interest, the interest adds up to $50 billion spread out over 40 years. Even if we had borrowed the full $25 billion and paid nothing on it, the capitalized interest and principal comes out to about $200 billion.

      Your math on what it would cost to provide free health care to everyone is also seriously lacking. The U.S. has spent more than $1.2 trillion dollars on health care so far this year! And it's only July! The U.S. spends about 17% of its GDP on health care.

      While you're criticizing the Apollo program for its costs, let's not forget the benefits it has provided. For example, this health care you were mentioning has benefited tremendously from MRIs, pace makers, composite materials, and many other advancements that were developed in part due to the Apollo program.

    37. Re:Proper Old Skool by hcdejong · · Score: 1

      Last week I saw In the shadow of the moon, a series of interviews with the Apollo astronauts. In this, Aldrin says the reason for the overload was that he kept the rendezvous radar running (against procedure) so they'd be able to find the CM quickly in case of an abort.

    38. Re:Proper Old Skool by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      you know your dad being a blathering idiot and blowing cash on a stupid car that will go DOWN in value and then crashing it, and the space program are two very different things.

      Lots of science and products came out of the apollo program.

      your dad did nothing.

      Call me when he spent $100,000 on a chemistry lab and produced several products that made the world a better place but left him pennyless. Then you have the same thing except that NASA and the USA is not pennyless from that event, just the money hole that is the middle east.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    39. Re:Proper Old Skool by Have+Brain+Will+Rent · · Score: 1

      You had keypads!?! And LED displays!?!

      Man we had to touch read the holes in the paper tape and then punch new holes with a ballpoint pen to modify the binary machine code. Of course the lights were off when we did that. But we had it easy compared to the previous guys - they had to start by making the paper tape by chewing on reeds and then pounding them with dead power supplies.

      --
      The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny - Aesop
  5. Apollo 15 by MichaelSmith · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...was the first flight to land in terrain where the descent trajectory had to be designed to avoid high altitude terrain. By that I mean they had to fly over a mountain, then into a valley for the landing.

    The terrain model in the PNGS had five vectors in memory to represent terrain. Back in those days, RAM was expensive.

    1. Re:Apollo 15 by Bazman · · Score: 1

      No, you're confusing Apollo 15 with the landscape on the arcade Lunar Lander game, surely!

  6. looking at the code... by circletimessquare · · Score: 2, Funny

    this is clearly a horrible case of bloatware

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:looking at the code... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      So was my ex wife

  7. 1 MHz != 1000 Hz by Fleetie · · Score: 2, Informative

    "The Apollo's Guidance Computer was a snail-like 1.024 MHz in comparison, and it's external signaling was half that -- actually measured in Hz (1/1000th of 1 MHz, much as 1 MHz is 1/1000 of 1 GHz)." FAIL!

    --
    "Absorbing your worst..."
    1. Re:1 MHz != 1000 Hz by VMaN · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No love for KHz?

    2. Re:1 MHz != 1000 Hz by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You're wrong. Only RAM or ROM is measured in base 2, due to the innate binary nature of computers (they measure in multiples of 256, 512, 1024, 2048, et cetera). Clock speed is independent of that and measured in base 10 such that 1 megahertz == 1000 hertz.

      Anyway:

      This Apollo computer has specs almost identical to ancient 1970s home technologies like the Atari VCS/2600 (1 megahertz, 2K ROM) or an Atari 400 computer or a Commodore VIC-20 (1 megahertz, ~8K RAM). That gives you a rough idea of how "weak" the computer inside Apollo truly was.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    3. Re:1 MHz != 1000 Hz by SBrach · · Score: 1

      No you're wrong, here is a hint;

      peta
      tera
      giga
      mega
      kilo
      hecto
      deca

      deci
      centi
      milli
      micro
      nano
      pico
      femto

    4. Re:1 MHz != 1000 Hz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think he's referring to the fact that 1/1000th of 1 MHz is 1 kHz, not 1 Hz.

      But yes, while I don't like the "binary" prefixes for bytes, they're unquestionably wrong for anything else.

    5. Re:1 MHz != 1000 Hz by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Ooops. 1 MHz = 1 million hertz.

      I wasn't really thinking. I was hung-up on the base 2/base 10 argument (which frankly pisses me off). It seems the great-grandparent believes 1 MHz == 1024 x 1024 hertz == 1,048,576 hertz which would not be correct.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    6. Re:1 MHz != 1000 Hz by Bakkster · · Score: 2, Informative

      Only RAM or ROM is measured in base 2, due to the innate binary nature of computers (they measure in multiples of 256, 512, 1024, 2048, et cetera). Clock speed is independent of that and measured in base 10 such that 1 megahertz == 1000 hertz.

      Absolutely correct. Hertz is an SI unit. Just as 1km = 1000m, so does 1kHz = 1000Hz.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hertz

      --
      Write your representatives! Repeal the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics!
    7. Re:1 MHz != 1000 Hz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've never gotten laid once in your life have you?

    8. Re:1 MHz != 1000 Hz by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      I think the binary measure might clear up the differences.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    9. Re:1 MHz != 1000 Hz by LordKronos · · Score: 1

      I see no indication at all that he beleived 1 MHz == 1024 x 1024 hertz. You made a mistake and misunderstood what his original post was trying to address. No shame in that...many of us have done the same from time to time. However, just admit your mistake instead of making up stuff to cover your ass.

    10. Re:1 MHz != 1000 Hz by Rocketship+Underpant · · Score: 1

      I assume that by "FAIL", you're referring to that apostrophe that shouldn't be there.

      --
      He who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.
    11. Re:1 MHz != 1000 Hz by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>I see no indication at all that he beleived 1 MHz == 1024

      QUOTE: "The Apollo's Guidance Computer was a snail-like 1.024 MHz" led me to think the poster though clock speeds were measured in base 2.

      >>>cover your ass

      Thanks for the offer but I'm already wearing Stafford underwear and pants. You can keep your ass-covering.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    12. Re:1 MHz != 1000 Hz by LordKronos · · Score: 1

      >>>cover your ass

      Thanks for the offer but I'm already wearing Stafford underwear and pants. You can keep your ass-covering.

      1) Too much information. I neither need to nor care to know the brand of underwear you wear

      2) If you took that as some type of offer, I'm beginning to see how you really DID think that guy was complaining about a base 2 vs base 10 issue. Misreading posts apparently is a common habit of yours. I'm beginning to wonder how you will misread this reply.

    13. Re:1 MHz != 1000 Hz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It seems the great-grandparent believes 1 MHz == 1024 x 1024 hertz == 1,048,576 hertz which would not be correct.

      Uh, no.:

      "...actually measured in Hz (1/1000th of 1 MHz, much as 1 MHz is 1/1000 of 1 GHz)." FAIL!

      He was pointing out that the article made the same mistake that you later made. 1 MHz != 1000 Hz

    14. Re:1 MHz != 1000 Hz by Freetardo+Jones · · Score: 1

      QUOTE: "The Apollo's Guidance Computer was a snail-like 1.024 MHz" led me to think the poster though clock speeds were measured in base 2.

      The fact that he surrounded that statement in quotes shows that he was quoting someone else's words not that those were their own words. Is this the first time you've encountered quotation marks before?

    15. Re:1 MHz != 1000 Hz by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      LordKronos == sense of humor lacking

      I was just joking. Jeez. You wouldn't happen to be related to the same jerkoff that runs ipodtvnova.com would ya?

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  8. Amazing by hamburgler007 · · Score: 2, Funny

    When you consider how many shitty programmers there are now who use variable names that take up nearly 2k.

    1. Re:Amazing by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      but my objects use more than 2k for their vtable entries, memory guard blocks and garbage collector references before I even start writing any of my code, you insensitive clod!

    2. Re:Amazing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what ? Other times, other constraints.

    3. Re:Amazing by hamburgler007 · · Score: 1

      The point I was making was that the programmers did an amazing job considering the constraints they had to work under. Many programmers don't have to work under many constraints which leads to lazy, sloppy and inefficient code. Of course this doesn't apply to everyone, but when you had to consider each and every byte that went into your code it manifested much better programming practices.

    4. Re:Amazing by VAXcat · · Score: 1

      See, the thing of it is, programming used to be so damned hard, that only really, really smart people could work in the field...thus, you didn't see a fraction of the widespread idiocy in computing back then that you do now. It was a golden age...now the barrier to entry has been lowered so much, you get all kinds of pigeon brains cranking out bad code.

      --
      There is no God, and Dirac is his prophet.
    5. Re:Amazing by hamburgler007 · · Score: 1

      True that. Back then, computer science really was a science. Now it is largely a mess, but that is progress for you.

    6. Re:Amazing by Freetardo+Jones · · Score: 1

      It was a golden age...now the barrier to entry has been lowered so much, you get all kinds of pigeon brains cranking out bad code.

      I'm guessing you've not maintained much code that is a few decades old. Despite what your rose-colored glasses are showing you, there was tons of shitty code being written during your so called "golden age".

  9. Calculating trajectories for Apollo program by bAdministrator · · Score: 5, Interesting

    http://embedded.com/columns/technicalinsights/218401508?pgno=1

    "Calculating trajectories for Apollo program"
    "Jack Crenshaw describes what he and team members did to research trajectories for the Apollo missions."

    1. Re:Calculating trajectories for Apollo program by destroyer661 · · Score: 1

      Thanks for that link, was a good read.

      --
      #define true false // Have fun debugging!
  10. shut up already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    no, there are no analogies to open source anything here. collaboration != open source.

    can we please have an article about computing where someone isn't droning on and on about open source at any opportunity? it's annoying that any attempt to discuss anything is sabotaged by open source zealotry. it's like having someone who has to interject crap about their religion into every conversation.

    1. Re:shut up already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      modded down by open source fanatics because it's true.

      they'd have you silenced just for telling the truth about their cult, like any other extremist.

    2. Re:shut up already by Manfred+Maccx · · Score: 1

      Please mod up the parent!!!!

  11. Guidance computer explanation by noidentity · · Score: 1

    I found a fascinating audio explanation of how the guidance computer deals with deviation. Well worth the listen (only a couple of minutes long).

    1. Re:Guidance computer explanation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is that the one where it was, not where it is, but when it gets where it wasn't it knows were it was, and so on and so forth for about 4 minutes.

      can someone feed that audio into goodlevoice? its almost as good as "who's on first"

  12. Moon Machines by Anti_Climax · · Score: 1
    --
    Even people that believe in pre-destiny look both ways before crossing the street.
    1. Re:Moon Machines by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      thankyouthankyouthankyou!

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  13. Waist deep in snow, uphill both ways by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Funny

    In those days we had to program the computer the size of a school bus strapped to our backs while trudging through the waist deep snow, for five miles one way, uphill both ways, without mittens while the politicians were whipping us yelling, "you don't want the Ruskies to win, do you?", those were the days boys. Now these young whippersnappers are using laptops with 8 Gigs of RAM and still could not write a simple javascript engine with a just in time debugger without creating a buffer overflow vulnerability while fed very long unicode strings.... bah... now get off my lawn.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:Waist deep in snow, uphill both ways by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      I never understood you people who loved your giant, bulky VAX machines and insisted I should use one to get "real" work done.

      Bah humbug! I did all my work on an Atari 800 (and later a C-64) which was only slightly bigger than one of today's keyboards. Nice and portable and all you needed was a standard TV to display the code/results.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    2. Re:Waist deep in snow, uphill both ways by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice and portable and all you needed was a standard TV to display the code/results.

      Because it was only a toy, son. Now, go play with your GI Joe and get off my lawn.

    3. Re:Waist deep in snow, uphill both ways by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How's this for being dated: I worked with computers that you could actually stand inside. In the operations center during the graveyard shift we would get bored and throw the write protect rings from tapes at each other. During the melees, you could get inside the some of the big IBM mainframes to seek shelter and wait for your next victim.......

    4. Re:Waist deep in snow, uphill both ways by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      In those days we had to program the computer the size of a school bus strapped to our backs

      You had laptops? I'm jealous!

    5. Re:Waist deep in snow, uphill both ways by Linker3000 · · Score: 1

      I loved my VAX 11/750 - especially when the DEC commissioning engineer forgot to screw the feet of the disk pack unit to the floor and we both had to make a grab for it when it 'took off' across the computer room as soon as the system test started a sequence of random head movements.

      --
      AT&ROFLMAO
    6. Re:Waist deep in snow, uphill both ways by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know this is a joke but...

      You know it wasn't a buffer overflow, was just a failure in underlying system libraries to check results of malloc causing a null pointer exception, right?

      https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=504342#c7

      https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=504342#c19

      https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=504342#c22
      etc...

  14. Variation on a theme by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 2, Insightful

    When I wrote my own equivalent program in C= BASIC, you weren't in a lunar module at all -- you were on foot. There was no fuel, but you had a time limit. You'd been poisoned, you see, and you had to get to hospital, quick. Go too slow, you don't reach the hospital in time, die. Go too fast, run into a wall, die.

    I was a very strange child.

    --
    Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
  15. Switching to manual by mc1138 · · Score: 1

    Considering how simple by today's terms the computer was, plus the fact that it couldn't handle all the input anyway leaving the astronauts to essentially land the craft without any assistance. Not to say the computers didn't help with all the other extraordinary feats that were accomplished, but it goes to show that relying solely on computers especially in essentially untested conditions can be dangerous and foolish.

  16. Atari 2600 by CountZer0(QAW) · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Wow essentially man landed on the moon with the computing power of a 2600.

  17. Source by Threni · · Score: 1

    Where is it? There's something about subversion, then an URL which doesn't work. There can't be more than a few K of source - why not just provide a link for people who don't have subversion installed on their phones/PCs etc?

    1. Re:Source by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      At the top there's a navigation bar reading "Checkout | Browse | Changes". Clicking on "Browse" will take you here: http://code.google.com/p/virtualagc/source/browse/

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
  18. !opensource by NevarMore · · Score: 3, Informative

    Shoehorning a piece of software into an "open source" angle really doesn't do any justice to open source or the software you're writing about.

    Instead of writing about open source software, write about good software that happens to be open source. If there is really good software where we know something about the code, like this Apollo software, then write about that. Discuss the collaborative development the engineers did, talk about the open source clone over at Google Code, but calling this "like opensource but only for NASA" is a massive distraction.

    1. Re:!opensource by bonch · · Score: 1, Funny

      I agree. It was pretty annoying to see the author of the piece try to shoehorn the story into an open source angle multiple times. You could tell the interviewer asked, "Would you consider it open source?" and the guys responded, "Well, in the sense that the source was accessible to the other NASA engineers, sure..."

  19. Good Book on the Subject by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Journey to the Moon: The History of the Apollo Guidance Computer
    by Eldon C. Hall
    ISBN: 156347185X

    If anyone is ever in the Mountain View area the Computer History Museum has one of them on display.

    Richard Feynman's book 'What Do You Care What Other People Think?' also mentions the software development scheme used for space shuttle hardware in the context of the Rogers Commission report on the Challenger accident.
    ISBN: 0393320928

    1. Re:Good Book on the Subject by iluvcapra · · Score: 1

      I liked this book too, though when I bought it it was almost $80 and it tends toward the very minute and technical, and doesn't have as much operational or programming-type stuff I wanted. Digital Apollo isn't as specific about the whole technical process, but it has a lot of interesting discussion about the astronauts and how they related to the computer, how initially they rejected the idea of the thing, etc... Also cheaper and more readable for a layman.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
  20. less grunt than an IBM XT by mcgrew · · Score: 1

    The History Channel was running space history stories all day Sunday, and in one of them about Apollo 11 (IIRC it was the show "Modern Machines") they said that a pocket calculator had more power than the 180 lb onboard Apollo computer. Integrated citcuts were very primitive, containing less than 100 transistors each (according to wikipedia).

    An XT was far more powerful than a pocket calculator. Your cell phone is more powerful than an IBM-XT.

    When they were landing on the moon, the computer was in the process of crashing - it had computational overloads that it couldn't handle. On top of this, they almost ran out of feul.

    I was seventeen and at work when the Eagle landed, I journaled that night yesterday.

  21. And you too can play with the code! by arkham6 · · Score: 3, Informative

    1: Download the excellent sim Orbiter:
    http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/

    2: Download the Apollo addon NASSP:
    http://nassp.sourceforge.net/wiki/Main_Page

    3: Download the virtual AGC/AGC software:
    http://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/

    4: ?????
    (Literally, spend hours trying to figure out how to fly, how to get into orbit, reading the detailed manuals, etc etc etc)

    5: Profit!

    1. Re:And you too can play with the code! by BigJClark · · Score: 1


      Great find! Thanks!

      --

      Hi, I Boris. Hear fix bear, yes?
    2. Re:And you too can play with the code! by Suzuran · · Score: 1

      Step 3 is not necessary. We pack the vAGC software in our CVS. Be advised we only support Apollo 7 right now; We're still working on later stuff. The largely neglected launch-vehicle software is still missing. Everyone likes to talk about the AGC software because it's the most visible, but the Saturn LVDC is what put them on their translunar trip. RTCC software would be a nice find as well! It's nice to hear from people that enjoy the project. It's a lot of fun to work on, even if it's a bit head-bangingly difficult sometimes. (Hey, this -IS- rocket science!)

  22. Lmitied possibilities were probably a benefit... by divisionbyzero · · Score: 1

    A lot of the problems we see with software today are due to the complexity of the hardware and software systems on which it is built. For the most part there are way too many variable to keep in your head at once to make sure they are all coherent.

  23. future on board computing by Ins0mau · · Score: 1

    In future missions, astronauts reportedly plan to bring along many thousands of times more on board computing power than previous eras by "not forgetting their mobile phones".

  24. You can run the code in a simulator by TuringTest · · Score: 1

    Available here

    --
    Singularity: a belief in the "God" idea with the "demiurge" relation inverted.
  25. Interesting story on the virtualAGC page by cluke · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Next time you think you have a tight deadline:

    "Final exam (for the advanced student)
    Prior to the descent of Apollo 14's LM to the lunar surface, a short in the LM control panel caused the abort switch to be triggered intermittently. If this actually happened during the landing, an abort would have automatically occurred (meaning that the lower stage of the LM would have been jettisoned and the upper stage would have blasted back into space). No landing would have been possible, and the astronauts would have faced the grave situation of needing rescue by the command module. It was therefore necessary, in the orbit or two before descent, for the some of the software designers to work out a fix for this problem that allowed a software lockout of the abort switch during the initial phase of the descent, but also allowed reenabling the abort switch later in the descent, in case the astronauts needed to use it. They did, in fact, work out such a fix. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is this: Work out such a fix and send it to me. Remember, your fix can only involve erasable memory, since the core-rope containing the program cannot be altered. The fix needs to be keyed in at the DSKY by the astronauts. You have about 90 minutes to figure it out. Go!"

    http://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/index.html#Final_exam_for_the_advanced_student_

    1. Re:Interesting story on the virtualAGC page by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Simple....

      If altitude MAX display 80085 on display.

      I had room to put in a cookie :-)

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    2. Re:Interesting story on the virtualAGC page by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I guess a little more information would be necessary.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Interesting story on the virtualAGC page by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But you only have at most 90 minutes of stress in this scenario.

      After 90 minutes it's just

      "Oh well, lost a couple of astronauts. I still have time to catch the end of the My Favorite Martian!"

  26. NASA on software development for the space shuttle by Gyske · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A few years ago I read an excellent article on how NASA develops software for the space shuttle. It focuses on the development process. The article is quite long, but well written, informative and entertaining. Read it here: http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/06/writestuff.html?page=0%2C3

  27. Lunar Lander by tedgyz · · Score: 1

    Let's give praise for the great game simulating the lunar landing experience. Running out of fuel was such a sick feeling - watching your module helplessly smash into the surface.

    --
    "No matter where you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai
  28. Proper Old Skool-CNC. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    G and P codes. People who work with CNCs are already familiar with the keypad/ LCD method you describe.

  29. Sounds about right by smchris · · Score: 1

    I had a base 2K of RAM and a 1 mhz processor on my Sinclair ZX81 too, and I could play lunar lander (with what we called graphics back then on the whopping 16K expansion).

    1. Re:Sounds about right by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      And they should have used less, considering reality did all the graphics for them.

      I always said it, application programmers have it better than game programmers. They get all their flashy graphics and environment for free. :(

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Sounds about right by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      The module only had 2k, half of the Timex's base memory, and no expansion pack. Dod you write it yourself, or buy it?

    3. Re:Sounds about right by MrPhilby · · Score: 1

      I loved peeking and poking hex and then using the ridiculous command "Randomize" to run the Machine code.Not quite a Tardis tbh.

    4. Re:Sounds about right by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I wanted a battle tanks game, and couldn't find one for sale, so I wrote one in BASIC -- epic fail. The thing was just too slow. So I learned Z80 assembly, rewrote the BASIC into assembly (down to the hardware level; I had the program look at the raw keyboard outputs and was able to have both players pressing keys at once and have the thing respond), and as there were no assemblers, hand assembled it and POKEd the hex in.

      It worked! I may still have the cassette I saved it on, I'm not sure.

  30. Memories by BCW2 · · Score: 1

    My father in law worked for Boeing in the late 60's and was part of the team of Engineers that built hardware and coded for the LEM. His first experience with code.
    One of his later jobs was QA for every line of code in the fire control computer for Seawolf.

    --
    Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
    1. Re:Memories by sunking2 · · Score: 1

      That's impressive considering Grumman made it.

    2. Re:Memories by BCW2 · · Score: 1

      Boeing did several of the systems on the LEM.
      If you're talking about Seawolf, GE had the project and sold it after a year or so. That work was in Syracuse, NY. Where he spent 3 years on the project as a temp.

      --
      Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
  31. 40 Years After the Wright Brothers... by Baldrson · · Score: 1

    Its fascinating how history repeats itself. I mean 40 years after the Wright Brother's first flight, the US government was still trying to recreate the feat.

    1. Re:40 Years After the Wright Brothers... by LordKronos · · Score: 1

      Huh? The first Wright Brothers flight was 1903. According to wikipedia, "Heavier-than-air aircraft were first used in the military in the Italo-Turkish War", and that war took place in 1911-12.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_aviation

      Unless you mean they were unable to build an exactly identical plane from blueprints and get it to function, which wouldn't be a surprise since the blueprints wouldn't account for any variations that were introduced (accidentally or intentionally) when the Wright Brothers built their plane.

    2. Re:40 Years After the Wright Brothers... by Queltor · · Score: 1

      I think he's speaking in metaphor and playing fast and loose with the dates.

      40 years after we sent a man to another planet, we're trying to recreate sending a man to another planet (either back to the Moon or Mars). And maybe ~40 years after that we'll send someone to yet another planet.

      Then again, maybe I'm misunderstanding the original comment.

  32. C!= BASIC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    C and BASIC are very different languages.

    1. Re:C!= BASIC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Woosh!

    2. Re:C!= BASIC by bsDaemon · · Score: 1

      "C=" is ASCII-ism for the Commodore logo, sort of like Apple ][

  33. Young engineers working on Apollo by Queltor · · Score: 1

    My father was a young electrical engineer working on Apollo.

    I remember watching Apollo 13 with him (the movie, not the actual mission). It was a long stream of, "I remember him..." and "this is what they didn't include in the movie..."

    1. Re:Young engineers working on Apollo by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      They should make a movie with him for History Channel or something. Where he gets to tell the "didn't include" stories. Apollo 13 was a nice movie (still love watching it from time to time), but I was already sure (and now it's confirmed) that we didn't even see 10 percent of what happened and what they had to hack together.

      IMO it's one of the most interesting pieces of space flight. When people have to think fast and engineer solutions under insane pressure, it shows what they're really made of. And those engineers pulled off an insane feat. If you ask me, A13 showed a lot more about the genius of humankind than A11. Coming up with something when you can test it is fairly easy. Try something, watch it fly (or blow up), learn from it, try again. When you have only ONE attempt and it HAS to work, you really show whether you know your stuff or whether you're pissing in the wind.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Young engineers working on Apollo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      true, i've done the same thing, and not everything has been unclassified either. i could tell because he'd open his mouth to speak and it would just snap shut.

  34. AGC could multitask 8 jobs at once! by Viol8 · · Score: 1

    In 2K in 1969!

    But in the 21st century microsoft have decided that a 1Ghz processor (thats 1000 times faster than the apollo CPU) in a netbook is not enough for poor Windows 7 to run more than 3 applications at a time. Gimme a friggin break! FFS , what kind of idiots are calling themselves systems programmers these days.

    1. Re:AGC could multitask 8 jobs at once! by EveryNickIsTaken · · Score: 1

      I was wondering if someone would manage to talk shit about Windows in a post about Apollo 11 software. Nice work.

    2. Re:AGC could multitask 8 jobs at once! by Viol8 · · Score: 1

      Whats shit about it? Are saying they weren't claiming that they were going to limit notebooks win7 to 3 apps for "performance" purposes?

    3. Re:AGC could multitask 8 jobs at once! by MegaMahr · · Score: 1

      1Ghz processor (thats 1000 times faster than the apollo CPU) in a netbook is not enough for poor Windows 7 to run more than 3 applications at a time.

      A bit like comparing an apple to a Ferrari. The only real-time graphical display that the LM had was the window, and they weren't surfing bloated flash-enabled websites while typing up a damage per second spreadsheet in OpenOffice. The uses for computers have changed dramatically in 40 years, and even though the 3 application limit is horseshit, you cannot compare the 8 "tasks" that the AGC could handle to 3 applications in Windows 7. The thread count on my windows 7 test PC (which admittedly is not a netbook) currently stands at 221 while idlely sitting there with no applications open...

      --
      788652 = 2 x 2 x 3 x 3 x 19 x 1153
    4. Re:AGC could multitask 8 jobs at once! by Viol8 · · Score: 1

      "The only real-time graphical display that the LM had was the window, and they weren't surfing bloated flash-enabled websites while typing up a damage per second spreadsheet in OpenOffice."

      No , but the code it was running was running on a processor 1000 times slower. I think the comparison is valid.

  35. Dadddy how was I made? by MrKaos · · Score: 1

    Well Hal, once upon a time...

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  36. 1202 errors by the-matt-mobile · · Score: 1

    The part that is most amazing to me is that the software was was spitting errors the whole time the LEM was landing. It seems like that would make it awfully difficult to concentrate on landing when you're basically getting out-of-memory exceptions the whole way down. I think that they wound up landing with something like 17 seconds of fuel left. It's really a wonder we made it as far as we did on that technology.

    1. Re:1202 errors by maxume · · Score: 1

      If they had spend 5 times as much money on each mission, they could have landed with 100% extra fuel...

      That doesn't diminish the technical accomplishment, I'm just pointing out that they were intentionally finessing things, not playing it fast and loose (the failure mode for running out of fool was to boost back into orbit).

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    2. Re:1202 errors by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      It wasn't out of memory exceptions, it was 'failed to run all tasks in their timeslice' exceptions. The software was designed to use 95% of the processing power in the worst case, and would have run happily, but NASA procedure was to enable the rendezvous radar prior to landing in case of an abort. The simulator it was tested on didn't fully simulate that radar, so they only found out that processing the extra radar data took more than the spare 5% of CPU time when it was 'tested' for real on the first landing.

      Fortunately it used priority-based scheduling, so this merely meant that the lowest-priority tasks were skipped if they couldn't all be completed in the time available but the guidance continued operating.

      One of the more interesting aspects of the software was that it was designed so you could reset the computer at any time and it would come back in a fraction of a second and continue where it left off... one of the programmers said that he used to press the reset button at random during his testing to simulate power failures and the like, and it would just keep on running happily.

  37. good idea by anc+w. · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    very good idea

  38. flash / javscript version by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know I'm lazy, but is there a flash / javscript simulation of the AGC?

  39. well, since it pisses you off personally by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    let's just forget that whole 'on topic' thing and dig a little into what is really bothering you. how about wombats? do you like wombats?

  40. AGC Replica by root_42 · · Score: 1

    There is one dude who built a working replica of the AGC and let it run the original flight software:

    http://klabs.org/history/build_agc/

    Lots of good information in those PDFs. Also very interesting that the AGC already ran some simple real-time capable multitasked OS. Simple, but still with a lot of modern ideas in it.

    --
    [--- PGP key and more on http://www.root42.de ---]
  41. Interesting Book on Apollo & Computing by TwobyTwo · · Score: 1

    Though not primarily about the code or machine structure, the recently published book "Digital Apollo: Human and Machine in Spaceflight" by David A. Mindell (Amazon) has lots of interesting insights into the design decisions and tradeoffs that led to the Apollo software being discussed here.

    In particular, it explores debates that might now seem quaint as to whether computers could be programmed to make the decisions necessary to reliably fly and land a spacecraft, and especially, what the right tradeoffs are between direct human control, fully automatic operation, and intermediate modes in which the computers provide the human with higher level abstractions than the raw hardware. Ultimately, for the moon landings, it seems to be this intermediate design point that proved compelling: when Armstrong "overrode" the automatic guidance to choose a landing spot, he was not directly controlling each thruster or the main descent rocket; rather, he was instructing a program to reposition the craft, change speeds, etc., and the computer adjusted the various thrusters and engines appropriately.

    There's also a quite good discussion of the famous 1202 errors that almost caused an abort, and of how they related to what was then the very novel and robust architecture of the software created by MIT and the Instrumentation Lab. The book also provides lots of interesting information about scheduling issues (nobody noticed until relatively late in the game that software would be important or difficult), some about hardware architecture (the so-called "ropes" that carried the code in a form that we would think of as ROM today). Overall, a good book for those interested in details.

  42. Met one by argStyopa · · Score: 1

    I had the pleasure to meet John Schinas, one of the programmers tasked with LEM landing and orbital code and the entrepreneur behind a company my wife had the pleasure to work for. An absolute genius.

    As I hear the story, he was given the task to write the code and was asked how many team members he'd need, he demurred, saying that he'd just do it himself. Program managers said it was impossible for a person to write 100,000 lines of machine code without error, and after he did it, nevertheless tasked backup personnel to scrutinize the code line by line. They didn't find anything.

    Really nice guy, too.

    --
    -Styopa
    1. Re:Met one by SpinyNorman · · Score: 1

      100,000 lines of machine code can't be right. It would generate at least one byte per instruction/line, and result in 100K+ of code.

      TFA mentions the Apollo computer only having 2K of memory. I read elsewhere that the program was stored in old fashioned hand-woven core memories (a grid of fine copper wires passing thru or around **TINY** donut-like magnetic ferrite cores). The Apollo astronauts visited the factory where women were assembling these ROM cores (pass wire through core for a "1", around it for a "0") to make them feel more personally connected to the project and not make any mistakes, although I assume they did double-check anyway.

    2. Re:Met one by argStyopa · · Score: 1

      Ironically, I'd *heard* the story told as "one million lines of code"...I downgraded that as conceptually unlikely. :\

      Just to be clear - this was NOT a story that John ever told, it was whispered around Digi by admiring employees. When questioned casually about it, he'd deny that it was such a big deal and just state that he was part of the team that worked on it.

      --
      -Styopa
  43. Gruuuunt by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    Apollo Guidance Computer, a device with less grunt than an IBM XT

    You mean like the usage profile of the slashdotted server?
         

  44. Core rope memory by slipangle · · Score: 1

    I think the use of core rope memory for program storage was fascinating. I guess you really have to be sure of your code. That kind of commitment is kinda scary. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_rope_memory

    1. Re:Core rope memory by Tteddo · · Score: 1

      Here's a picture http://www.tteddo.com/tmp/corememory.jpg I took of one someone gave me. Pretty amazing!

  45. Word != Byte by jspenguin1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The Block II AGC had 2,048 WORDS of memory, not 2,048 bytes. A word on the AGC is 15 bits + 1 bit parity. So, the AGC actually has 4 KiB of erasable memory, or 3.75 KiB not counting parity.

    Also, keep in mind that this was just data memory, not program memory. A lot of early 8-bit micros loaded their programs into RAM from cassette or paper tape, so the total memory available for data is reduced.

    The AGC had 36 KWords of read-only program memory which was woven into core-rope memory by the same "little old ladies" that sewed the suits together.

  46. Ask Slashdot... by PinkyDead · · Score: 1

    I was watching "From the Earth to Moon", the entire series, there on Saturday and it was all great.

    But I especially enjoyed the Apollo 8 episode, where they had dramatized Grumman Engineering's development of the Lunar Module.

    From a software engineer's perspective, I thought to myself that there must be a huge amount to learn about the design process, interface design and large scale project management among other things from the whole Apollo project - and I was wondering if there was a book that explored all this.

    After the programme was over I actually ordered "Digital Apollo" from Amazon. Maybe that's it? Any other suggestions?

    --
    Genesis 1:32 And God typed :wq!
  47. NASA book online about space program computers by caseih · · Score: 1

    While the article was good, many people will want likely want to read NASA's online book about computers in space travel, covering computers back in the Gemini program through to the space shuttle and unmanned probes. Fascinating stuff:

    http://history.nasa.gov/computers/contents.html

  48. Never mind the tech stuff by Kupfernigk · · Score: 1

    I think I've just fallen in love with the parent poster. Female, biker, embedded systems designer. Now, one small problem, how does a 50+ male become an attractive lesbian?

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
    1. Re:Never mind the tech stuff by Capt.DrumkenBum · · Score: 1

      "Now, one small problem, how does a 50+ male become an attractive lesbian?"
      Major surgery.

      --
      If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
  49. I was there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There were a fair number of errors in the article. The code was not open source by any stretch of the imagination. You needed security clearance to see it. Keying in a patch is not the same as contributing to open source.

    The main development computer was the IBM 7094, a 1-2 MFLOP machine, depending on the model. It had 32K (not 64K) 36 bit word memory, putting it around 200K characters. It was not 12 hours to do a compile, probably only a few minutes, but it took 12 hours to get your results back from a batch process. Your program had to wait its run.

    Actually running your program on the Apollo Guidance Computer took months, because the memory (ROM) was hand woven by little old ladies from a textile mill (really!). A 1 was a core. A zero was the absence of a core.

  50. Obligatory FastCompany by sconeu · · Score: 1
    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
  51. Supergeek Builds Homemade Functional AGC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This guy wins the ubergeek crown of all time. He actually built a fully functional version of an AGC out of discrete IC chips. Granted, it is not a true AGC clone, since the exact chips could not be procured in 2000-2004, but he did build a functional workalike of the AGC out of individual TTL chips, and wrote two software emulators, and got his modernized hardware reproduction AGC to run actual original AGC machine code software.

  52. Ah but will it fly... by farnsaw · · Score: 1

    Ah, but will it fly and successfully land the Lunar Lander simulator (http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/07/20/1447236)?

    --
    "Computer Scientists can count to 1024 on their fingers" (non-mutant, non-mutilatated, human computer scientists)
  53. Okay, let's game this.... by CodeShark · · Score: 1

    Since we now have the "how they did it", let's game this into: Suppose that some big-a$$ set of rockets

    • boosted a major fuel source into orbit,
    • way in advance sent another two (one for the lander to tank up on when it gets there", and one to bring the mother ship home, and
    • the AGC programs are the tools used to fly the craft...

    Quickest here to Mars for the least energy output using the Apollo AGC wins...

    --
    ...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
  54. I feel bad 4 u by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "There are some analogies to open source development but they are slim."

    aww, poor kid.

  55. ROM by sjames · · Score: 2, Informative

    Just calling it ROM doesn't quite convey the level of tech. It was also known as little old lady memory because it was literally copper wire and ferrite cores woven together by little old ladies.

  56. Kennedy's challenge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    JFK's challenge was to land a man on the Moon *and* bring him safely back to Earth. Just landing on the Moon wasn't enough!

  57. Hardware by slashusrslashbin · · Score: 1

    Here's a very good article from the IET about the AGC hardware: http://kn.theiet.org/magazine/issues/0912/smart-apollo-0912.cfm

  58. The will to go back by jmorris42 · · Score: 2, Informative

    > Maybe as a country, we have just lost our 'will' to do things?

    Partly. But it is also rational. Remember why we did it in the first place. We had to beat the 'Godless Commies' to the moon so we were willing to spend whatever it took and men with balls of steel were willing to climb into rushed spacecraft. And we won a major engagement of the Cold War with only three casualties. When the historians finally settle on things it is likely that Kennedy's Apollo and Reagan's Strategic Defense Initiative will be remembered as major contributors (the other two major ones being Reagan's "Focus of Evil" and "Tear Down this Wall" speeches) to the failure of the Soviet Union so it was worth the investment. After we planted the flag the game changed. The stated goal was to land on the moon and return, we had never set a goal of building a moonbase or anything more permanent. It was no longer worth spending such a large percentage of the US Federal budget, the need to take such risk dropped, etc.

    I have long said we went to the moon fifty years before we were ready and because of that we will probably lose another fifty years before returning. Because after the moon landings none of the things we should have been doing to work our way to the moon the 'right' way were/are inspiring enough to sustain the political support needed to do them as big government NASA style jobs. So we will now have to wait until the tech gets developed enough that private industry can do it as part of profitable ventures. And we are seeing the first signs of that finally getting going. But it will be at least fifty years before any of the private ventures can work their way back to the moon.

    And there IS profit to be made 'out there' so go we will. Private companies are already making real coin in the launching business. NASA is trying to outsource suppling the ISS, mostly because they wish they were rid of the white elephant but whatever.

    --
    Democrat delenda est
  59. This article on the subject is interesting by martinde · · Score: 1

    This article from MATLAB News & Notes that came out on the 30th anniversary is pretty interesting - there are some nice details in it about the original system. It was co-authored by Dick Gran, one of the engineers who helped design the real thing. I saw Dick Gran give a talk on this subject and it was really interesting. Full disclosure: I work for the MathWorks.