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Laser Ignition May Replace the Spark Plug

dusty writes "Laser Focus World has a story on researchers from Ford, GSI, and The University of Liverpool and their success in using near-infrared lasers instead of spark plugs in automobile engines. The laser pulses are delivered to the combustion chamber one of two ways. One, the laser energy is transmitted through free space and into an optical plug. Two, the other more challenging method uses fiber optics. Attempts so far to put the second method into play have met some challenges. The researchers are confident that the fiber-optic laser cables' technical challenges (such as a 20% parasitic loss, and vibration issues) will soon be overcome. Both delivery schemes drastically reduce harmful emissions and increase performance over the use of spark plugs. So the spark plug could soon join the fax machine in the pantheon of antiquated technologies that will never completely disappear. The news release from The University of Liverpool has pictures of the freakin' internal combustion lasers."

25 of 388 comments (clear)

  1. Flashing lights by SilverHatHacker · · Score: 5, Funny

    If it makes cool red lights flash under the hood like KITT, I'm all for it.

    --
    Funny may not give karma, but +5 Informative never made anyone snort coffee out their nose.
    1. Re:Flashing lights by FlyingSquidStudios · · Score: 5, Funny

      It was the 1980s. Between the feathered hair, the parachute pants and the Members Only jackets, nothing could save you from looking like a complete jackass.

    2. Re:Flashing lights by interkin3tic · · Score: 4, Funny

      Wait wait wait, two things
      1. You're saying Members Only jackets are out of style and have been so since the 80s?
      2. Who are you calling a jackass?

    3. Re:Flashing lights by neonsignal · · Score: 5, Funny

      David Hasselhoff doesn't look nearly as cool as we remember him to be either...

    4. Re:Flashing lights by slashdotmsiriv · · Score: 5, Funny
    5. Re:Flashing lights by jcr · · Score: 4, Funny

      OMG, that's worse than a rickroll.

      What is seen can not be unseen. Don't click that link!

      -jcr

      --
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  2. So what happens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When the vehicle gets to be a few years old, and the rings start letting extra oil past. Soon the lenses are covered with soot. Sparks can still jump through a moderate layer of soot, can the laser?

    1. Re:So what happens by cptdondo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We're not talking gigahertz, 0.00001% error rate stuff. We're talking honking big pipe firing a few hundred times a second.

      My first thought was, 20% loss? Who cares!??? Just stick a bigger laser on the other end!

      Seriously, this is one of those things where power is good, and more power is better. Early ignition was pretty pitiful. Now electronic ignition is pretty much bullet proof.

      I expect this to be like fuel injection, going from expensive trouble prone disaster to rock reliable. Once they figure it out, it'l be like injectors - maybe 200,000 mile service.

      Honestly, I can't wait. I expect reciprocating engines will be with us a long, long time, burning some sort of liquid fuel.

    2. Re:So what happens by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm not worried about the amount of energy getting to the cylinder, that can just be brute forced as you note. I'm more concerned about what the energy that doesn't make it will do. Fiber fuse could be fairly dramatic in such a system. Video of fiber fuse propagating.

      I don't doubt that they'll work it out in the end, engineers have a long history of being clever like that; but it is going to take a giant pile of tweaks on top of the naive implementation.

    3. Re:So what happens by hardburn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The laser can be focused to a specific point more easily, allowing it to ignite a stratified charge better. This makes it better at igniting a leaner mixture. Coupled with Direct Injection and maybe some octane boost trickery, this could make gas engines get the same compression ratio as a diesel while still reving over 3k.

      --
      Not a typewriter
    4. Re:So what happens by Runaway1956 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You may be right, in that a spark makes a better ignition source. But, do we KNOW that, or do we just assume so? I won't argue the point, but I will point to explosives, and note that a spark is often not the best source of ignition. Naval guns use electricity to detonate primers. C4 and other explosives use a carefully controlled combination of pressure and temperature. In fact, those explosives can be set alight, and used to cook dinner, because the spark isn't what detonates them.

      Gasoline? Internal combustion engines? They are terribly wasteful of both fuel, and energy. Even a very efficient gas burning engine pumps fuel out the tail pipe, which is the reason catalytic converters are required on vehicles in the US. If a laser can set off a more thorough, more efficient ignition, that burns ALL of the gasoline in the cylinder, fuel mileage will increase, for certain. Polluting emissions will probably be reduced. Is it worth the cost? Only time will tell.

      And, THAT is the reason for research. Very few people will purchase these things if they add $10,000 to the cost of a vehicle - but if the cost is brought down to $50 per cylinder, they never have to be replaced, AND they increase fuel mileage even a little bit, people will buy them.

      Let them research. If/when they have a product ready for market, I'll probably test it.

      --
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    5. Re:So what happens by haifastudent · · Score: 5, Funny

      You ever had a car with Lucas electrics?

      Two. One for the road and one for the mechanic.

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    6. Re:So what happens by shiftless · · Score: 4, Interesting

      When it comes to ignition, compression is never a problem these days. What compression does do is increase *heat*. So unless your running gasoline with a higher octane rating, you will get detonation and pre-ignition the higher your compression ration is. ....and what happens when you use a laser to ignite a large portion of the fuel/air mixture at once, rather than using a spark plug to ignite a small flame kernel and waiting for it to propagate? The fuel mixture burns much more rapidly, allowing you to run less ignition advance. The result is more power, fewer emissions, and the engine is LESS prone to detonation. So then you can jack up the compression ratio and gain even more power.

  3. PETA by AmigaHeretic · · Score: 4, Funny

    Is it one shark per cylinder?

    Yeah, they're gonna be pissed.

    1. Re:PETA by minvaren · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yes. And the only way to start the car will be to jump it.

      --
      Big! Strong! Wow! Tada-O!
  4. Re:misreading by AmigaHeretic · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'd go trade mark that name quick if I were you... "SharkPlugs"

  5. Re:bs science as usual- and a waste of time/effort by east+coast · · Score: 4, Insightful

    this is typical insane engineering- if this succeeds then a mechanic would need to be an expert in light theory and frickin laser beams to work on your car.

    Only as much as they need to be an expert in fluid dynamics to change your oil.

    this is not the way to make cars more efficient- spark plugs work great and im sure these lasers cant give any more power - the spark plug ignites the gas already, and it BURNS- how much more combustion could you get?

    It is a good question as to how this would work any better but if you've ever spent any time under the hood you know it doesn't take much in the way of fouling or plug wire degradation to change fuel efficiency. If this system can avoid those kinds of issues it would make certain aspects of tune ups obsolete and would also increase fuel efficiency over a period when traditional plugs and wires would degrade but not to the point of seemingly needing replaced.

    --
    Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
  6. IC engine by zymano · · Score: 4, Insightful

    inefficient. Adding a laser is not going to do much.

  7. Great... by PhotoGuy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Great, the laser pulses will probably be DRM encoded so that only authorized chips are used and vendors that insert the appropriate smart card can perform service on them...

    The advent of CPU-enhanced cars is a great one, but this is one place where the govt really needs to step in an open things up. For standard engine codes, things aren't too bad; but Lord help you if you want to read an ABS or airbag code from a GM vehicle (for example). They're locked down. I have some decent PC-based code reader hardware and software, but in order to read the ABS error that my two vehicles are both showing (GM, learn to design ABS, will ya!), I need to spend hundreds or thousands on their own software/hardware to simply find out which of my four ABS sensors is faulty.

    The more they get into specialized things like this, including laser ignition, the more I worry that I won't be able to be a backyard mechanic any more.

    --
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  8. Re:In most likeliness by RsG · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I would imagine that such a technology could be adapted to other fuel sources like hydrogen. In fact, I suspect that hydrogen engines might actually benefit greatly from this.

    I'm not so sure of that. Granted, you can use hydrogen fuel in an IC engine, but storing it is a big PITA. At sea level pressure, gaseous hydrogen has abysmal energy density per volume, and any solution for reducing that volume would have to be adapted for every car on the road. Meaning liquid hydrogen is a non-starter, pressurized hydrogen needs to be stored in a collision-rated tank, and hydrogen dissolved in or bonded with something else needs a cost-effective carrier of limited weight per fuel (else the energy density per weight or price per tank becomes a problem).

    If we've got the hydrogen storage problem licked, and with all the R&D focusing on precisely that we very well might someday in the not too far future, then why use an IC engine over a fuel cell? In a FC + electric motor configuration, the engine makes very little noise, there are fewer moving parts than an IC engine, no need for a separate (and heavy) alternator + battery to power the electronics, and probably other advantages I've overlooked. The one downside is cost, which can probably be substantially reduced via mass production - the cost per cell is high now, but we aren't making them for every car on the road.

    --
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  9. Re:bs science as usual- and a waste of time/effort by Bobnova · · Score: 4, Informative

    I've spent entirely too much time under the hood of a car(21 year auto mechanic), and you are entirely incorrect.
    Degrading plug wires either cause a misfire, which is blindingly obvious and kills mileage horribly, or doesn't. There is no middle ground. Plug wire misfires happen maybe once or twice in the 300,000 mile life of a (japanese...) car.
    Modern electronic ignition systems are fairly immune to spark plug wear until extreme circumstances, such as missing three tuneups in a row with standard plugs. Then you will sometimes get drivibility issues and lose 1mpg, tops.

    Back in the days of points it was different, plug wear and point wear (mostly point wear) had huge effects on mileage between tuneups. These days, the effects are minimal at most.

  10. Re:Stupid question by confused+one · · Score: 4, Informative

    Those aren't spark plugs, they're glow plugs. different animal altogether. No spark, just a hot wire...

  11. Re:In most likeliness by flyingfsck · · Score: 5, Funny

    Actually, the hydrogen storage and delivery problem has been licked long ago. If you combine hydrogen with carbon and form long chain molecules, it becomes a liquid at normal atmospheric pressure and temperature. This allows it to burn efficiently in modern vehicles without any modifications required...

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  12. Lifetime? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The problem with putting lasers in your engine is that it gets hot in there, and laser lifetime plunges drastically when you run them at elevated temperatures. I'm sure the dealers will love us having to replace our laser-plugs every two months, but no one else will.
    (And if you're thinking thermo-electric cooling is the answer, that's going to use a whole lot of juice; don't know how feasible it is.)

  13. Laser-initiated ordnance systems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    We used a similar system starting back in the late 1990s for initiating ordnance systems. The primary explosive would be doped with a small amount of carbon black to enhance absorption. One advantage was that specific equipment was required for proper initiation, which (in theory) made it safer.

    Dynamite and a laser beam indeed.