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Palm Pre iTunes Syncing Back With WebOS 1.1 Update
suraj.sun points out CNet coverage of Palm's newest OS release, which restores the ability to synch with iTunes that iTunes 8.2.1 had broken. "The news was posted on Palm's blog where it listed the new features and enhancements of the software update and nonchalantly added at the end: 'Oh, and one more thing: Palm WebOS 1.1 re-enables Palm media sync. That's right — you once again can have seamless access to your music, photos and videos from the current version of iTunes (8.2.1).' Bold move, Palm. Bold move. It'll be interesting to see how Apple responds, and do you suppose the use of the phrase 'one more thing,' a phrase that Apple CEO Steve Jobs often uses to introduce a new product at the end of his keynotes, was intentional or am I just reading too much into this?"
Intentional.
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Theres only so much though that Apple can do short of killing compatibility with older iPods. Eventually Apple will just have to give up.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Why as a consumer would I be so dumb as to buy a palm if my itunes only worked intermittently or had no assured path forward. Sure one could perhaps use the old version of itunes while I waited for palm to fix it. But really that's not a strategy. I'm in that boat right now with my jailbroken iphone and did I not sort of enjoy the novelty of this cat and mouse game it would be a detraction not an attraction. I can't imagine most people want a phone that might not work some of the time. who needs to waste time like that?
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I just updated my Pre too. Scares me though. While Apple is selling DRM free music, dost it really stop them from their software only syncing up to properly signed iPods? I mean I like my iPod, but if its going to be a device that needs a secure encrypted channel to transfer file for me to just use normally, I am not sure I would want to use an iPod again.
Interesting. What sort of teeth does the USB IF have?
I mean, the complaint is obviously going to fail, as I see it. If Apple wants to use their vendor ID to identify their own USB products so that iTunes doesn't work with anything else, that's within their right. Even if Palm thinks it's a dick move by Apple, I can't see anything actually prohibiting them from doing it.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
The USB vendor ID was not intended to force users into lock-in at the software level. Apple is wrong to try to "close" and open standard.
By forcing Apple to issue updates specifically disable their device, Palm is capitalizing on the media hype maelstrom that is lavished on Apple, keeping the name "Pre" on the lips of people who would normally only ever talk about the iPhone. So when the media covers this "war", they are in effect establishing the idea of comparability between the products that would have been hard to get through had they just gone with traditional advertising and promotions. Between this and the new Microsoft ads, it is interesting to see Apple's competitors finally starting to ratchet up their competition with a brilliant marketing company.
Simple: Apple makes iTunes scan not only for the iPod saying it's an iPod, but also for a valid serial number and other attributes. If Palm tries mucking around with serial numbers then Apple may well be able to buttfuck them with a lawsuit.
Palm is just being stupid. They have a lot more to lose from pissed off customers than Apple does. Palm, just make your own goddamned sync app like you should have in the first place. Yes, Apple is being a bunch of asses, but who didn't see that coming from a mile away, especially at Palm? If they want to use people's iTunes libraries, just make the sync app read the iTunes library XML file. Bloody simple.
They are just phones and music players. Is it really that big an issue ?
-- It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -- Aristotle
I'll use it however I like. If I want to use iTunes with a home built Internet Rice Cooker/MP3 Player, I will. Boo fucking hoo for Apple, where do they get off trying to tell me what I will and will not do with my computer, software, and other hardware? You masochistic, submissive Apple fanboys may get off on being dominated by your Apple-daddy but the rest of us don't swing that way.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
When tunes are stored on an ipod they are stored in a way that creates a speedbump to just trasnfering them off. basically the names are munged. Maybe they mess with the id3 tags--don't know. But apple has long been a proponent of speedbump DRM, that is drm that gets in your way enough that most users won't hassle with defeating it.
The real trick that apple accomplished was convincing the music companies that this was sufficient protection.
IN return apple probably has to make a reasonable effort to prevent cases where pod-to-pod transfers all proliferation of music. this would include nominal efforts to never have a legitimate channel for this.
they won't care if it's not perfect. But they probably are obligated to try.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
It's official - Apple has joined Sony on my list of companies to avoid. Sigh - they used to be sooo cool....
I wouldn't think it would be "not allowed" in this instance, if (as reported above) Palm is correct when telling on Apple for misuse of the USB vendor ID. This would then be a legal way of circumventing an illegal/not allowed block by Apple (in using the Vendor ID string as a vehicle to kill products from using its' software)
If this pisses off Apple enough, I could see them pushing an update for older iPods to change the way they are recognised by iTunes, maybe using a more complicated method that will only run on the OS that are on iPods.. If they start using a different method to verify an iPod is connected with something other than the Vendor ID (I think they will have to at some point, as if they don't, many more will follow Palms' example) then there could be an interesting war starting between Apple, and the masses.
This all of course assumes Apple doesn't go the lawyers route.. Something tells me there is an overly good chance of that happening, from their past tactics..
Disclaimer: I know nothing, about anything, ever.
No more shady than reading vendorID and using it to lock out particular products. Can you see how a group so concerned with open standards like USB would find that practice questionable?
1. There are defined APIs Apple provides to allow third party software to interact with iTunes, and do everything Palm needs.
2. Palm is better at sync software than Apple *anyway*.
Doing it this way is just begging for a visit from the fuckup fairy. Plus, I want Hotsync back. And a pony.
If you want a car that runs on non-Ford brand gas, make it yourself!
Standards are standards for a reason. Subverting the standard for anticompetitive reasons is wrong. Period.
Besides... who wants to install yet another damn program on their machine? I hate how each widget I get has some shitty driver it needs to have to get working with Windows, with some shitty software that never works. My Canon HF100? The video management software for it is abysmal. Palm is actually serving consumers by allowing them to keep their computers cleaner and use existing infrastructure, and you're getting upset at that? Fuck Apple.
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I would imagine a lot of those same Slashdotters are currently using browsers that spoof the user-agent string to pretend to be other browsers. This sort of thing is not new.
Well, actually, they're telling them that the Pre is a device made by Apple:
http://www.precentral.net/how-palm-re-enabled-itunes-sync
That's a bit shady,
No, it really isn't.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
By breaking the USB vendor ID Palm is risking the bricking of Pres whenever Apple tries to do more than just a file sync.
Just how, do you imagine, would iTunes engage the Pre's firmware update system?
The Pre does NOT manage its firmware through iTunes. There is ZERO risk to a Pre's firmware from interfacing with the iTunes application.
Uh no! You do not have to get Microsofts permission to write applications!
Uh no! You do not have to get Sony's permission to write applications that run on the PS3!
Uh no! You do not have to get Honda's permission to make replacement parts!
To get a "Works with Win 7" badge you have to talk to Microsoft. To get a PS3 logo on your disc you have to fork out some $$$ to Sony. If you want Sony to tell you how to program for the PS3 you have to talk with them. If you want to make spare parts for Honda just do it. I don't use VW windshied wipers, or air intake or tires.
How is Palm not trying to force Apple into making iTunes SO restrictive about syncing that Palm can sue Apple for anti-competitive behavior, eventually forcing iTunes to be actively open.
I say that Palm is doing the exact opposite of trying to avoid a lawsuit, but their intention is to be on the 'right' end of it. It's brilliant if it works.
"instead of reading directly out of iTunes"
The music files in question are all stored, unencrypted on the file system referenced in the XML file. If you are already parsing the file and already have a means for copying files back and forth to the device (which the Pre does) why would you use iTunes in the first place? In addition the XML file is again, just a flat file which is unencrypted on the FS. There's absolutely no need to go through iTunes for this unless you were feeling either Lazy, Too Smart for your own good, or looking to pick a fight with Apple.
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but why as customer should I have to install that extra stuff when it Palm can offer out-of-the-box interoperability with iTunes?
Palm didn't abuse any vendor id. The were really clear (in round one) that this was a palm device. Thy used the vendor id only where it was a 'magic number' that was required to get interoperability.
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It's really stupid of Apple to try and block the Pre from the iTMS eco-system. Apple sells non-DRM music through that store and makes a little bit (most goes to the record companies, but Apple still makes something and enhances their standing as the world's biggest digital music store) music through iTMS that can be played on the Pre - so why throw out this market and hope that you can force them into an iPod only to make more money now? Be nice and they might buy an iPod later because of a good experience with iTunes.
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