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English DJ Claims Wi-Fi Allergy

path0$ writes "British Ex-DJ Steve Miller claims that his Wi-Fi allergy is making his life one big misery , forcing him to live in an iron-clad home far from any neighbors. According to the article, more and more people are suffering from an allergy like his. The only positive side to this is that at least Miller didn't think of suing anybody yet, like these people did, who claim to suffer from the same condition and were mentioned in a Slashdot article in 2008."

39 of 515 comments (clear)

  1. Crazy people by Hatta · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Crazy people are everywhere. Stop giving them attention.

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    1. Re:Crazy people by adonoman · · Score: 5, Informative

      Most people with decent hearing find TV aisles uncomfortable - it's either too many random TVs putting out the same audio minutely out of synch, or the high-pitched squeal that comes from any CRT being multiplied by a couple dozen. The EMF signals are hardly the most irritating thing that a TV can put out.

    2. Re:Crazy people by amliebsch · · Score: 5, Informative

      Personally, I'll start taking it seriously when at least one so-called sufferer can reliably report the appearance or disappearance of his symptoms in coordination with a randomly cycled emf source in a credible, double-blind experiment.

      --
      If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
    3. Re:Crazy people by the_humeister · · Score: 4, Funny

      Most people with decent hearing find TV aisles uncomfortable - it's either too many random TVs putting out the same audio minutely out of synch, or the high-pitched squeal that comes from any CRT being multiplied by a couple dozen. The EMF signals are hardly the most irritating thing that a TV can put out.

      O RLY? I guess you haven't sat through an episode of 'Fringe' then?

    4. Re:Crazy people by JimXugle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or... you know... the stuff that they're actually playing on the TVs...

      --
      -jX

      Don't you just love politics? It's like a comedy of errors.
    5. Re:Crazy people by canajin56 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yes, they've tested it many times. No correlation found. The way they tested it was easy. They wheeled a scary looking device covered in antennas, and the people reacted in pain whenever the green light came on. The only trouble is, it was a big inert piece of metal. The only electronics in it were, well, the LED to show it was "on". Meanwhile, under the dropped ceiling there was an actual massive wifi antenna that would randomly blanket the room in "evil radiation", and they were completely unaware. In other words, they only react to wifi at all if they "know" it's there, even when it isn't.

      --
      ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
    6. Re:Crazy people by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 4, Informative

      Some of the RFID units operate at extremely low frequencies - down in the kilohertz range. The lowest I've seen is in the 130-140 kHz range though.

      These units usually use a LARGE coil as an antenna. There's a good chance the coil changes shape slightly with the duty cycle of the signal (lower than the carrier frequency) - this probably results in some audible energy coming from the security system coils. It may be such a low volume or at a frequency just outside of the normal human hearing range so that it can be "felt but not consciously heard". (This is a similar phenomenon to the well-known "GSM bleeps" - You can't hear 900 MHz or 1900 MHz RF, but you CAN hear when something in the environment rectifies it and low pass filters the signal envelope, because the GSM TDMA frame repeats at around 440 Hz.)

      Similarly, CRT TVs often have horizontal refresh rates in the 15-16 kHz range, right in the upper end of the human hearing range. If the transformers in these TVs malfunctions slightly, they'll vibrate at this frequency. Really cheap/defective/failing monitors and TVs will make enough noise at hsync to be heard. I remember we used to have a monitor we had to junk because you couldn't use it for more than 20 minutes without developing a headache - it started squealing softly at hsync frequency.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    7. Re:Crazy people by sunderland56 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I wonder if he has a microwave in his place... or even a bluetooth adapter somewhere.

      Or, racks and racks of electronic DJ gear....

    8. Re:Crazy people by samkass · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Crazy people are everywhere. Stop giving them attention.

      This attitude is unhelpful.

      The symptoms this man describes sound similar to anxiety disorder with agoraphobia. It's not uncommon, and is very treatable with cognitive behavioral therapy and an anti-anxiety medication such as an SSRI. Sufferers of this have physiological symptoms which are subjectively-- and sometimes objectively-- indistinguishable from anything from allergies to more serious medical conditions. The body creates a feedback loop in the endocrine system and the mind assigns causative correlations with anything that was happening at the time. It can result in anything from hot flashes to stuffy noses to a full-on asthma attack.

      Calling such a condition "crazy" just exacerbates it, and attention to it is something that has to be managed carefully to try to break the feedback loops.

      Disclaimer: I'm not a psychotherapist, just a patient.

      --
      E pluribus unum
    9. Re:Crazy people by kheldan · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's not the CRT that makes the noise, it's the flyback transformer, which is being driven by the horizontal sweep oscillator, which is oscillating 15750Hz.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    10. Re:Crazy people by ThatsNotFunny · · Score: 5, Funny

      Don't mock people with LED allergies!

      --
      "Was it a millionaire who said 'Imagine No Posessions?'" -- Elvis Costello
    11. Re:Crazy people by Meumeu · · Score: 5, Informative
      From wikipedia:

      In 2005, a systematic review looked at the results of 31 experiments testing the role of electromagnetic fields in causing ES. Each of these experiments exposed people who reported electromagnetic hypersensitivity to genuine and sham electromagnetic fields under single- or double-blind conditions.[1] The review concluded that:

      "The symptoms described by 'electromagnetic hypersensitivity' sufferers can be severe and are sometimes disabling. However, it has proved difficult to show under blind conditions that exposure to electromagnetic fields can trigger these symptoms. This suggests that 'electromagnetic hypersensitivity' is unrelated to the presence of electromagnetic fields, although more research into this phenomenon is required."

      Seven studies were found which did report an association, while 24 could not find any association with electromagnetic fields. However, of the seven positive studies, two could not be replicated even by the original authors, three had serious methodological shortcomings, and the final two presented contradictory results. Since then, several more double-blind experiments have been published, each of which has suggested that people who report electromagnetic hypersensitivity are unable to detect the presence of electromagnetic fields and are as likely to report ill health following a sham exposure, as they are following exposure to genuine electromagnetic fields.

    12. Re:Crazy people by luder · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Agreed. There was a case on my university that I found very interesting.

      We have access points (AP) distributed all around the campus, meaning we get wireless connectivity pretty much everywhere. One particular AP was located inside a small room used by janitors, adjacent to an interior garden. Being inside a room, it was safe from the weather and would still provide coverage for the area.

      However, one day, one of the janitors complained she was getting headaches, and claimed that the AP was the culprit. The network managers, skeptical of it, decided to test her theory and switched off it's radio interface, not telling her anything about it. Although the AP stopped emitting radio waves, the status LED and Ethernet LED still blinked constantly. For the common person, not familiar with network devices, that is enough to assume the access point is working as usual.

      Unsurprisingly, the headaches didn't go away and the whining continued. Despite the technical expertise and scientific knowledge of the network staff, the school directors decided to ignore all of the advisory they provided and sided with the janitor, ordering for the AP to be moved out of the janitor's room.

      Now, the funny thing is that they moved the access point around two meters from the original position, so that it was on the other side of the wall, enclosed on an opaque, weather resistant box. Radio interface was brought up and then, mysteriously, the headaches went away...

    13. Re:Crazy people by UncleTogie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Hate to play the part of Captain Obvious, but the article you linked to seems to indicate that those "afflicted" react to fake EM fields, too. Not very convincing...

      --
      Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
    14. Re:Crazy people by spun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Dude, no one disbelieves that EM waves can have an effect on organic tissue. For a much safer and less sarcastic and condescending proof, GO OUT IN THE SUN. I don't believe that low level EM waves can have such a deleterious effect. I also believe that no scientific study has shown any correlation. Finally, I believe that people claiming to have such a condition respond to fake exposure they know about, and do not respond to real exposure they DON'T know about. In conclusion, while I accept the fact that this may possibly have a slight chance of being real, my working hypothesis is that these people are making shit up because they are crazy hypochondriacs.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    15. Re:Crazy people by MaXintosh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're bathed in EM fields. Constantly. Even if I went to the furthest point on the globe, I'd still be surrounded by Electromagnetic radiation. Most of it is from space/the sun. The only people I know who claim are allergic to it are vampires.
      Well, I guess the hungover are also fairly allergic to sunlight.
      People wouldn't be able to function in a city if they really were allergic to what they claim they are.

  2. Seriously by His+Shadow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What's left to say? Isn't this just a matter for psychiatrists and sociologists now? Engaging these idiots in discussions would just make your own IQ drop without affecting their worldview in the slightest.

    --

    Fiat Homos et Pereat Theos

  3. Cordless phones? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From the 70s, man. Cordless phones. And baby monitors. And cell phones. RC cars are in the 2.4GHz band. And walkie-talkies like security guards use. Also power lines, radio stations, and other things cause EMI on other bands besides 2.4GHz. Man this guy's entire life must suck.

  4. I'm allergic to BS by burtosis · · Score: 5, Funny

    And I got a nasty rash just reading the summary.

    1. Re:I'm allergic to BS by fridaynightsmoke · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'm allergic to BS.. And I got a nasty rash just reading the summary.

      For the love of god; DON'T CLICK ON THE DAILY MAIL LINK!
      There's levels of BS on there that scientists haven't yet been able to measure.

      --
      This is a substitute for a clever sig that fits within the maximum number of characters.
    2. Re:I'm allergic to BS by Demonantis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They have a medication for that. They call it placebo.

  5. Easy to test by Eisenstein · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Put him into a room. Randomly switch on and off a WiFi-net and ask him to tell if it is on or off. If he manages to get more than 50 % right there might be something to it. He would also be the first person to manage this in years and years of testing.

    1. Re:Easy to test by Reziac · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This comment following TFA says it all:
      =====
      The problem with this claim is that WiFi uses the 2.4 gigahertz frequency spectrum along with Bluetooth phones, cordless home phones, and just about any other consumer wireless device. If he really had an 'allergy' like that, he wouldn't have been able to leave his house for the past 15 years. He should try to promote himself a different way than this.

      - Dr. Black, Los Angeles, CA, 24/7/2009 14:30
      =====

      Not to mention that cosmic radiation doesn't conveniently omit some portion of the EM spectrum. Has he ever been outdoors??

      There have always been people who claim that some particular class of witchcraft is making their lives hell. In days of yore it was the evil eye; during the hippie era it was Bad Vibes; today it's some portion of the EM spectrum, because that's the Newly Widespread Thing That We Know Is There But Can't See, So It Must Be Causing Our Ills.

      Crank these people's tinfoil hats one notch tighter, and they'll claim it's thoughtwaves from aliens instead. Oh wait, we've already had that one!!

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    2. Re:Easy to test by Yvanhoe · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It has been done with other electro-sensitive subjects : the sight of a fake cellphone gives them headaches. All the symptoms usually listed are those of psychosomatic diseases. But MPs are never the wisest and the "precaution principle" keeps popping up. Apparently it is admitted that a medical study can prove the existence of a risk but not disprove its existence. Which is a real problem.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    3. Re:Easy to test by timholman · · Score: 4, Informative

      Put him into a room. Randomly switch on and off a WiFi-net and ask him to tell if it is on or off. If he manages to get more than 50 % right there might be something to it. He would also be the first person to manage this in years and years of testing.

      Quite right. People who claim to be "allergic" to modern technology invariably fail to prove it in properly designed double-blind scientific tests. In extreme cases, you find people who claim to be allergic to anything "artificial", be it synthetic fibers, plastics, electronic equipment, automobiles, or any one of a thousand other modern conveniences. Their complaints are real, but the root cause is psychological, not physical.

      Some EHS (electro-hypersensitivity) sufferers go so far as to line their rooms and clothing with aluminum foil to supposedly "shield" themselves. In the most extreme cases, they move out into the country and adopt a 19th century lifestyle to completely divorce themselves from the modern world. Of course, they're still being exposed to EM radiation even in remote areas, as AM and shortwave radio transmissions span the globe, not to mention the EM radiation emitted by the sun. But once they believe they are safe from EM radiation, their symptoms abate.

    4. Re:Easy to test by Chris+Burke · · Score: 4, Funny

      But once they believe they are safe from EM radiation, their symptoms abate.

      Whoa, that's weird. I believe I'm safe from EM radiation too, and I've never had any EM allergy-related symptoms. Coincidence? I think not!

      You know what this means? The allergy is real, but believing it doesn't affect you is a cure! It makes sense, too -- allergies are an auto-immune response of the body, which can conceivably be affected by the central nervous system, if not consciously then subconsciously. People can learn to control their heart rates or body temperatures, maybe we unknowingly control our immune systems to respond or not respond to things it shouldn't. Thus the luddites fear of technology creates the very allergy that makes them fear technology. A vicious cycle!

      But hopefully we can make use of this, and I can believe my way of of this annoying mold allergy -- THAT I DON'T HAVE BECAUSE I'M SAFE FROM MOLD. I KNOW I'M SAFE I KNOW I'M SAFE.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    5. Re:Easy to test by Dmala · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm embarrassed to say that I've experienced this. I was horrified to learn that they were installing a cell tower on top of an apartment building I was living in at the time. The day it was supposed to go online, I could "feel" it; I started getting dizzy and nauseous going up in the elevator. A few weeks later, I learned that there was a delay and they hadn't even powered the thing up until a week later. Fortunately, finding this out "cured" me of what was essentially a phobia and I haven't had a problem since.

    6. Re:Easy to test by commodoresloat · · Score: 5, Funny

      He should try to promote himself a different way than this

      Yeah seriously; he should just start a band and try promoting himself under his own name. Call it the Steve Mill... umm, never mind.

  6. Steve Miller allergic to Wi-Fi? by hal2814 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Some people call him the space cowboy
    Some people call him the gangster of love
    Some people call him Maurice
    Because he has to stay in a Faraday cage to block out the wi-fi signals he's allergic to...

  7. And He Can Profit! by FroBugg · · Score: 4, Informative

    A properly scientific proof of this would most likely qualify him for the JREF challenge. If he can physically detect relatively minor electromagnetic radiation on these frequencies, he could win himself a million dollars. http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

  8. Lets try to be helpful by Useful+Wheat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've heard of this before, and I've always been skeptical of it. Not because that I think it's impossible for people to absorb electromagnetic radiation, but because the first people to expose me to this sensitivity believed pyramid shaped crystals could fix them. I really blame them for killing all of the credibility this condition may have had with me, but it's their own fault. This always struck me as a powerful example of the placebo effect. People want to feel sick when electromagnetic waves are around them, so they do. I've had a few friends deeply wrapped up in holistic medicine, and you could pick any random ingredient on your soda (anything man made) and they give you a story of how they feel sick when they are in the room with that ingredient.

    I'm not going to sit here and bash the people who think they have this symptom. You're going to get 50 posters who have done that thoroughly by now. Instead I'm going to offer them a suggestion. Find a person who exhibits a visible symptom when they're exposed to the types of radiation you object to. If we can take a person and reliably give them a rash with a wifi router, then we're in business. Until then you're...well this lady who had her house covered in tin foil.

    "But beneath the coats of magnolia paint, she points out, the walls are lined with a special paper that contains a layer of tin-foil; and upstairs, the windows are hung with a fine, silvery gauze."
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-450995/The-woman-needs-veil-protection-modern-life.html

  9. Hold on... by Aphoxema · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Just because it's all in someone's head doesn't mean they aren't suffering from it.

    --
    "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
  10. Re:What about Microwave Ovens? by timholman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If he were really allergic to Wi-Fi, wouldn't he have an extreme allergic reaction to microwave ovens too?

    Absolutely. Yet if he does use a microwave oven, and you were to point this out to him, he would quickly declare that the WiFi transmissions must have some additional quality that makes them "bad" as compared to microwave oven radiation.

    You must always keep in mind that you are dealing with people suffering from a psychological disorder. Logical arguments means nothing to them; they'll simply ignore what you're saying, or rationalize their behavior in one way or another. I've heard that some drugs for treating obsessive-compulsive disorder can be helpful in extreme cases, but these people are completely convinced that their ailments have physical causes, and will reject any suggestion that "it's all in your head".

  11. I know what he needs by SilverHatHacker · · Score: 5, Funny

    He needs one of these. So he can always tell when he's in danger.

    --
    Funny may not give karma, but +5 Informative never made anyone snort coffee out their nose.
  12. Re:Test This Claim: by EasyTarget · · Score: 4, Funny

    Why do we report bizarre claims to Slashdot without requiring the scientific method to be applied.

    If I claim to be psychic and to be able to use ESP to read emails out of thin air, does qualify for the front page of Slashdot?

    If you have to ask... you must be new round here.. :-)

    --
    "Oops, I always forget the purpose of competition is to divide people into winners and losers." - Hobbes
  13. EMF sensitivity by mike449 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As a kid, I could actually hear some EM quite distinctly. It was only the stronger pulse-like stuff, like arcing transformer a hundred meters away, or lightning strikes within about 2km. I can still hear lightning strikes that are fairly close as a faint crack in my head, a second or so before the thunder, but this ability seem to be diminishing as I age.
    Of course, there is no frickin way anybody can feel 100mW of 2.4GHz radiation from any distance, and not feel 1kW (although shielded, but leaking a lot more than 100mW) microwave oven.

  14. Found a corroborating study on the net by mattr · · Score: 4, Interesting

    FWIW take a look at this study (http://www.aehf.com/articles/em_sensitive.html) which shows after weeding out people who are affected by fake situations, that this is a real health issue. An M.D. is involved in the paper. After weeding out people who got faked out by placebos and "active challenges", they got 100% positive, 0% negative. (I just briefly flipped through the paper so read it more carefully please.)

  15. Re:Test This Claim: by Freetardo+Jones · · Score: 4, Informative

    This submission was posted by sampenzus which means it's just more idle crap polluting the front page.

  16. Re:What about Microwave Ovens? by vlm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You must always keep in mind that you are dealing with people suffering from a psychological disorder. Logical arguments means nothing to them; they'll simply ignore what you're saying, or rationalize their behavior in one way or another.

    So, you're saying the mysterious wifi allergy disease is actually a religion?

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger