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EU May Allow US To Keep Snooping On European Bank Data

zaphod2 alerts us to a storm brewing in Europe over access by US intelligence agencies to EU banking data. There is considerable opposition in Europe to extending this access. The submitter adds, "I wonder how long it takes until gambling, online games, or non-RIAA-approved music shops are considered supporters of terrorism." "US anti-terror officials want to be able to continue examining Europeans' financial transactions, and it appears likely that the European Union is going to comply. ... The US has been examining transactions handled by the Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Transactions (SWIFT) since the 9/11 attacks... However, SWIFT, which is located in Belgium, is planning to move its servers and database — which is currently located in the US — to Europe. With data privacy laws far stricter in Europe, the US would then need permission from the EU before it could gain access to this sensitive information."

18 of 206 comments (clear)

  1. Its OK though by Gravedigger3 · · Score: 5, Funny

    because it is absolutely necessary in order to fight the terrorists!! If we don't police the world then WHO WILL!?

    --
    All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be. -PF
    1. Re:Its OK though by Hammer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And who decides what is terrorist acts?
      I for one would not want US government to access my financial activity. Not because I am a terrorist but simply because I do not want a foreign government to breach my privacy. A court order that allows MY government agencies to snoop is OK though.
      And as the post says. how long before US considers perfectly legal and reasonable acts to be terrorist acts?? Or for that matter simple petty crime to be terrorist acts.
      Furthermore... I am not so sure I want America to police the world unrestrained. Considering that it could easily be argued that US is not democratic (remember that GWB was appointed by a court that ordered the counting of votes stopped). Considering that it is a country that kills it's citizens. Considering that it holds prisoners without due court proceedings.

    2. Re:Its OK though by noundi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Alas, let's not neglect freedom to torture.

      --
      I am the lawn!
    3. Re:Its OK though by daem0n1x · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's funny that they have so much vigilance, but they can't stop billions of euros illegally leaving the US and European economies towards fiscal havens where they pay no taxes and there's no accountability whatsoever. Want to fight terrorism? End the fiscal havens.

      Fiscal havens played a very important part in creating the current economical crisis. Yet, the chicken shit governments of G8 and the world financial institutions haven't done shit to end this, besides a few cosmetic tricks.

      This is like people in a small town protesting against the local brothel, but they all go there on Saturday night.

      If I don't pay my taxes, the IRS will make my life miserable, they will come to my house and take my furniture, my car, etc. But Joe the CEO can transfer his savings to the Conga Bonga Islands through book manipulation and happily wait for retirement without paying a dime in taxes. And his money can be invested in drugs or weapons, there's no way to trace it.

    4. Re:Its OK though by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >>>how long before US considers perfectly legal and reasonable acts to be terrorist acts??

      If we deposit $10,000 or more in an account, the government makes a note of it and investigates. One local fellow was depositing $9900, $9500, $9600 in cash in order to avoid that requirement, but a suspicious Nazi... er, teller reported him anyway because he was "close enough". Then the stormtroopers... er, FBI arrested him for trying to avoid the $10,000 legel requirement.

      This is the kind of society that the scared American people have created. "Any who would give up Essential liberty for temporary security deserves neither." - Benjamin Franklin. All these problems would disappear if we simply enforced the Constitution as written. No warrant; no search of people or their effects (papers/bank accounts).

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  2. Terrorism has fully achieved its objective by ami.one · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think terrorism has fully achieved its objective. Majority of citizens in almost every country now face innumerable problems due to the 'anti terrorist' agenda of their governments. How worse can it be ? Success beyond Osama's wildest dreams !

  3. We protect the rights of our citizens... by tacarat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... but those other people? We'll spy on them like crazy to protect your rights. Terrorists and all that, you know? Oh, we may or may not be letting them spy on you. And don't ask if we'll be swapping notes with them behind closed doors. Only terrorist lovers ask questions like that.

    --
    "Common sense will be the death of us all"
    1. Re:We protect the rights of our citizens... by rolfwind · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We protect the rights of our citizens...

      No we don't.

      FISA - Wiretapping. No longer was probable cause criminal wrongdoing suspicion, had to show special court that person was maybe foreign agent. Originally made so that evidence collected was not used in criminal prosecutions.
      Right to Financial Privacy Act (1978) - Transfers the ownership of financial records from person to the bank.
      National Security Letter (1978) - Self-written search warrant (no judge). Allows government to go to financial institutions, ie bank to get the records the bank now "owns". Also put a gag order on bank from telling you (although that was overturned in Doe vs Ashcroft in 2008). May have been circumvented by now (shrugs). Carter ordered it may not be used in criminal prosecution.
      US Patriot Act - Changes definition of Financial Institution to include Post Office, your lawyer, your doctor, etc. Anybody served a national security letter put under gag order.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_Financial_Privacy_Act
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Letter
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act

      http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2659761702659115038&ei=tMZuSp_4CJXnlQffprFu&q=napolitano&hl=en

  4. Re:As long as someone does it. by pacinpm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There is already a police in EU countries, you know. Unfortunately direct access to EU financial data can be used for industry espionage by US companies. And it is far more likely than next terrorists attacks in US.

  5. The EU is a totalitarian government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The sad thing is, things that invade our privacy and violate our basic rights are passed in a non-democratic way. The part of the EU government that is actually elected by the people, has absolutely no say in these matters. They are outraged but powerless.

    The EU is a "great" tool for oppression and more powerful governments. Basically everything that no national government would be able to put into a law, can be done in the EU. There is no such a thing as this annoying democratic process.

    1. Re:The EU is a totalitarian government by tronicum · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You are true about the current situation. There is a sign for hope though, if the Treaty of Lisbon will be accepted by Ireland et al, EP will have the power to rule on security matters, too. It is a shame though that we just elected an parlament which voted against this snoop hole, which is ignored by the EU commision (that actually has the EU power at the moment).

    2. Re:The EU is a totalitarian government by silanea · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The European Constitution is as anti-democratic as can be, both in the way it was drafted and unsuccessfully attempted to be imposed on its supposed subjects, and in its most central terms. So no, it is not ironic.

      --
      Rudolf Hess edited Mein Kampf. He was the very first grammar nazi.
  6. Re:As long as someone does it. by sproot · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You'd be thinking of this

  7. U.S. government invades and bombs for profit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "We are Team America..."

    There is no "we". The violence of the U.S. government has not benefited U.S. citizens. If you got in the way of the controlling groups, they would kill you, delt0r, and your family.

    "US anti-terror officials"

    The "anti-terror" is only a smokescreen. The U.S. government spends more money on surveillance and war than any country in the history of the world. That taxpayer money partly helps some people profit, for example: House of Bush, House of Saud, and hurts U.S. taxpayers.

    The U.S. government has invaded or bombed 25 countries since the 2nd world war. Most or all of the interference was for profit. Quote: '... although nearly all the post-World War II interventions were carried out in the name of "freedom" and "democracy," nearly all of them in fact defended dictatorships controlled by pro-U.S. elites' The dictators pay the corrupters, of course.

    U.S. citizens don't want to believe that their government is as corrupt as it is, even though the recent financial corruption has made many of them poor.

    1. Re:U.S. government invades and bombs for profit. by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Someday U.S. taxpayers will have to pay-off that enormous debt, which is now the equivalent of $105,000 hanging over every home.

      It would be nice if our politicians would grow-up, stop acting like teenagers with credit cards, and reduce spending. But no, instead they want to saddle us with a giant Uncle Sam healthcare program that we can not afford. By the end of Obama's term, that debt will have risen to ~$150,000 per home.

      Pretty soon the entire U.S. will be like bankrupt California.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  8. Re:Misleading by SeaFox · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They're letting another country snoop on their citizen's financial transactions. Sounds like they're being subordinated to me.

  9. Re:RIAA? Eh? by Corporate+Troll · · Score: 5, Informative

    No, the RIAA doesn't exist in Europe... (Guess what the last A in RIAA means) However, pretty much every Nation has its own equivalent institution. I don't know them all, but in Belgium it's SABAM, in France it's SACEM. I'm sure there are others.

  10. Could we please stop spreading this myth? by SoVeryTired · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You know, the whole point behind those attacks was not to destroy the West, or wipe us off the map, or any of that rubbish.

    The main demands the Al Quaida originally made were that US forces withdraw from Saudi Arabia, and for Palestine to be recognised and given equal support to Israel. That was before every fundamentalist nutjob in Islam was invoking the name Al Quaida though ( PDF here, for reference).

    I'm sorry to say, no matter what the media would have you believe, these guys aren't SPECTRE. They just want to be left alone. Throw rocks at a wasps' nest, and what do you expect to happen?

    --
    Slashdot: news for Apple. Stuff that Apple.