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Alan Cox Quits As Linux TTY Maintainer — "I've Had Enough"

The Slashdolt writes "After a stern criticism from Linus, the long-time kernel hacker Alan Cox has decided to walk away as the maintainer of the TTY subsystem of the Linux Kernel, stating '...I've had enough. If you think that problem is easy to fix you fix it. Have fun. I've zapped the tty merge queue so anyone with patches for the tty layer can send them to the new maintainer.'" A response to a subsequent post on the list makes it quite clear that he is serious.

22 of 909 comments (clear)

  1. Linus by Enderandrew · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Linus is brilliant. He is funny. Most days I really agree with anything he has to say.

    However, he has butted heads with people in the past. Perhaps this is just human nature and unavoidable from time to time. Linus isn't perfect, nor always right. I thought he was really unfair to Con Kolivas when he drove Con away.

    --
    http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    1. Re:Linus by Lord+Ender · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Serious question: what percentage of the current Linux kernel was actually written by Linus?

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    2. Re:Linus by Grishnakh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      BSD has terrible driver support compared to Linux.

      If you don't like the way Linus maintains the Linux kernel, then fork it and maintain your own branch. That's a lot easier than messing around with a different kernel that doesn't have half the driver support that Linux has. All you have to do is take what's there in Linux, then change the things you don't agree with (like dumping ALSA and moving back to the new OSS).

      It'd really be interesting if someone seriously made a Linux fork to compete with Linus.

    3. Re:Linus by Enderandrew · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm reading the thread. This is my take.

      Cox -> submits code which apparently caused a bug
      User -> Reports breakage
      Cox -> Can't replicate breakage and asks user for debug info so he can fix it.
      User -> Says they don't know what to debug for, but is willing to work with Cox.
      Linus -> Jumps in and calls Cox's code a buggy piece of shit before any debugging took place, and before it is established if the code is buggy or not.
      Cox -> Continues to troubleshoot the issue.
      Linus -> Flames Cox personally and says Cox is unwilling to work on the issue.
      Cox -> Takes his ball and goes home, except in this case, it is OSS so he doesn't really take any ball with him. He just leaves.

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    4. Re:Linus by TheWanderingHermit · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Harry Truman used to say he didn't want to talk to experts because an expert was just someone who didn't want to learn anything more on a subject because if he did, then he'd find out he didn't know it all and wasn't an expert any longer.

    5. Re:Linus by iluvcapra · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The quality of a programmer is often proportional to his ego.

      Be careful: Humans confuse cockiness with expertise.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    6. Re:Linus by Enderandrew · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I read the LKML for years.

      Ingo did write the new scheduler, at the request of Linus. Ingo didn't make personal attacks on Con.

      Linus was the one for years who said Con was wrong about scheduler theory. Ingo admitted Con was correct, but Linus wouldn't admit he was wrong. Linus asked Ingo to write a new scheduler, basically ignoring the one Con had submitted.

      When several people pushed to include Con's scheduler (which at that point was called Staircase) Linus made more personal attacks and wrapped it up saying that Con couldn't be trusted to support his work.

      Ingo had nothing to do with that.

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    7. Re:Linus by dvice_null · · Score: 5, Interesting

      > I found myself pulling on a door clearly marked Push.

      That is actually just an UI bug in the door. If you want people to push a door, you should use a handle that is like a plate, where you can easily put your hand against and push it. If you want people to pull the door open, you need to use vertical rod as a handle, where people can easily grab on to pull it. With this very small change, you don't even need to push/pull texts on the doors.

      Also, doors should be always pulled when you go in and pushed when you go out. That makes exiting the building easier in case of emergency (people don't rush to the door and jam it, preventing anyone from pulling it open.) and also when people are trying to get in and out at the same time, the person outside is more capable of keeping the door open for the person going out (it is better that people first get out, before new people get in, because inside there is a limited space, while outside contains usually a lot more room). Also outside usually contains more room for pulling, while the inside often has a wall that limits the space for pulling, especially if you want to keep the door open for someone else.

    8. Re:Linus by severoon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Agree 100%. Something as simple as a door should not require an instruction manual, even if it is a single word ("push" or "pull"). A good designer ought to be able to design any device as simple as a door so that it is easy to use correctly and difficult to use incorrectly, even for users that are minimally observant.

      I recently thought about this when I entered a bathroom stall, and the flip lever near the top of the stall door had a coat hook on it as well. When the stall door was unlocked, the coat hook was up against the stall divider and impossible to use. When it was locked from the inside, the coat hook was available for use. Furthermore, if you did decide to hang something on it such as a coat, a purse, even a key, it would take actual effort to ignore the item as you tried to exit the stall. Simple, straightforward design that is functional and eliminates the possibility of leaving an item behind.

      (Unfortunately, the toilet paper dispenser gave one lone, see-thru, single-ply sheet at a time and was positioned behind your left ankle. wtf.)

      --
      but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
  2. Interesting... by wandazulu · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm curious about how projects, in general, fare after someone with rather intimate knowledge leaves for whatever reason. I'm not being specific to Linux; you gotta think some of the kernel developers of Windows have left over the years. That's gotta be hard on the next person regardless of project; "here's his code, all three million lines of it. Oh, he seemed to like Pascal syntax so he wrote all these macros to make his C++ code look like Pascal. Good luck!"

    1. Re:Interesting... by jerep · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Indeed, ive jumped into quite a few projects replacing a previous programmer. Some were experienced and reading their code was really interesting, others were fired for being incompetent and I ended up rewriting most of their code.

      In any cases, the first few days, weeks or months depending on the size of the code are spent studying the structure rather than actually coding.

    2. Re:Interesting... by schon · · Score: 5, Interesting

      ive jumped into quite a few projects replacing a previous programmer. Some were experienced and reading their code was really interesting, others were fired for being incompetent and I ended up rewriting most of their code.

      In any cases, the first few days, weeks or months depending on the size of the code are spent studying the structure rather than actually coding.

      The differences here are that A) this is an open-source project, B) this is a *HIGH PROFILE* open source project, and C) Alan was the maintainer, not sole coder (so he both coded, and accepted patches from others.)

      It's possible that Alan was the only one who knew anything about the TTY code and how it worked, but I'd doubt it. I'd be really surprised if the new maintainer comes into the role cold.

  3. On slashdotting... by nweaver · · Score: 5, Interesting

    WHY can't lkml.org's mailing list retriever handle a slashdotting?

    Its not like the flashcrowds are all THAT big.

    --
    Test your net with Netalyzr
  4. Could anyone shed some light... by Lisandro · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...about the details of this argument? I know Linus might not be the easiest person to work with, but he seems to make some sense here.

  5. Re:Thanks by dotgain · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Not much else to say.

    How about "Nice work Linus, you'll have the entire kernel back to yourself any day now, I'm sure"

    Back three years ago I was sure I'd never leave. Now, I was no kernel dev, but I found out what it was like to try. In the meantime I grew up, and realised there's two sides to Linux.

    • The 'user' side, where you put up with limited, buggy and badly designed software, finding yourself grateful it even exists, and
    • The 'dev' side, where your success is proportional to the thickness of your skin. Your willingness to sit there and listen to argue with some other twit whose age you guess at 13 over something you know isn't furthering your project one bit. Oh, and telling people who post "I'm leaving" threads on the forum how wrong they are about everything, and how little their contribution was really worth anyway.

    Go and have a look at forums.gentoo.org, where you'll see both at work. I gave up too. For a long time I thought, through contributions and advocacy, I'd help Linux make some real headway in the Server and desktop market. Eventually I came to believe that it would never be big, it'd just mean more communities and more infighting and little real progress.

    So I'm sorry, Alan. I'm really sorry, but you've made the right move. Thanks for everything.

  6. The butt hurt started with KDESU? by tyrione · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Hi,

    A recent kernel change broke kdesu (from KDE 4.2) on my test boxes. ISTR a
    discussion about that, but I can't find it right now. Any clues?

    Rafael

    Seriously? KDESU is broken, in the first place.

    https://bugs.kde.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=kdesu

  7. Drag'n'drop by HomelessInLaJolla · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Drag and drop is quite convenient. It is also a security chasm. Once you can drag and drop one thing then you want to be able to drag and drop anything. In the case of arbitrary file formats not only must you implement code to check the incoming data stream (thus exposing yourself to all of the security considerations of "how many different ways can someone try to wax my process of checking the incoming data stream?") but you must consider that a data stream which is valid using one codec algorithm may cause a fault using another codec algorithm. Competing algorithms exist for many data format structures and the presumed same data format may have three or four codecs at use between X, the WM, a monolithic app like a web browser, and a devoted data editor (eg. GIMP), and even a devoted data viewer (eg. a multiformat display application). It isn't the simplest consideration.

    With so much of the problem and criticism with the reigning proprietary OS being security related the open source community has tried to remain a little more focused on security related issues. Combine that with the difference in conceptual organization--F/OSS guys don't get paid to go to in house meetings together--and it is completely logical that something as "simple" as drag and drop is not implemented across largely unrelated application development groups.

    Within a particular desktop environment using apps which were written specifically for that desktop environment (often referred to as a desktop suite) there is probably a more consistent end user experience.

    It is the culmination of (years of) similar situations which has brought many rifts in major F/OSS development groups.

    I find myself personally familiar with the situation which caused Alan to leave. The difference is that Alan has enough financial backing and social connections behind him that he likely will not end up living on the streets.

    Can you imagine a headline,"Major developer sick and tired of political crap, leaves development group, will take up a section of cardboard on the sidewalk just down the block from Slashdot's HomelessinLaJolla"?

    --
    the NPG electrode was replaced with carbon blac
  8. Re:Theo by Zancarius · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Perhaps Alan can come over to the FreeBSD camp where we are a bit more friendly. He's a good guy and will compliment any project he latches onto.

    Oh boy, I can't agree more with this statement. I realize this is anecdotal, but here's my own personal experience...

    In the Gentoo Freenode channel, it was difficult to so much as type without bumping into someone's ego. Participants were generally rude, crude, and--perhaps most ironically--threatened to kick people for using swear words. I have no idea if this has changed at all in the 4 or 5 years since I last joined... but it wasn't a pleasant experience.

    Contrasted with the various FreeBSD channels I used to join infrequently, the experience was on the whole much better. People were friendlier, had a sense of humor, were helpful, and didn't get their underpants in a dozen knots over something incidental like a single, mostly unoffensive swear word. Again, it's been years since I participated in that as well and perhaps the FreeBSD channels have changed...

    Personally, I doubt it. It's a cultural difference, I think. The BSD crowds seem more product-driven (let's get Y done) versus some Linux distros that seem process-driven (I don't like how you're doing X and it doesn't matter if we're making Y).

    This, of course, is purely anecdotal. You don't have to agree with it because it was my personal experience, and as such, FreeBSD folks have come off to me as MUCH more friendly and cooperative.

    --
    He who has no .plan has small finger. ~ Confucius on UNIX
  9. Re:So long and thanks for all the code. by phoxix · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Actually, and bizarrely enough, there is a high level FreeBSD developer named Alan Cox too

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Cox

  10. Re:Should I? by croddy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Once we camped out near a river, in known bear territory somewhere in central California. We hadn't seen any bear tracks, but put our food up in a nearby tree anyway (because that's just what you do in bear territory).

    At around 2 AM that night, we awoke to hear the sound of large animals moving in our campsite, accompanied by the rustling of what sounded very much like our bear bag. Getting a fire going as quickly as possible (meaning, a liter of white gas poured onto the nearest thing that looked like wood and then set ablaze), we didn't find a bear. We found a team of TWO bears attacking our bear bag.

    The big one climbed up the trunk of the tree, just under the branch from which we'd hung the bag. The little one, presumably a cub of the big one, had climbed out on the branch, and in a series of small steps, had pulled the bag along the branch with one arm toward the larger bear, who could now reach it from her spot on the trunk, and who was shredding the bag to bits as all our food dropped out. The fire, of course, chased the thieving duo away after a couple of minutes, and they thankfully only got away with some sausages and most of a bottle of pancake syrup.

    Of course, what we hadn't noticed was that this tree had basically no leaves or branches or bark on it anywhere. Based on the number of large scratches and claw marks all over the tree, we surmised that we weren't the first ones to try to hang our food from this tree, which was essentially a food collection station operated by the bears to tax any humans foolish enough to camp there.

    The damn bears are smarter than you'd think.

  11. Re:Thanks by Pyrion · · Score: 4, Interesting

    On Windows, you just throw in the disk, click ok, and your hardware is working.

    Unless you're running Vista x64, have 4GB or more of memory, and are trying to install the drivers for a TV tuner. Doesn't matter which manufacturer, they all would tend to fuck up under such conditions. I gave up trying to get TV tuners to work on my rig after wasting close to $250 on various models cuz I found only one commonality amongst them: they don't fucking work.

    --
    "There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell.
  12. Re:Thanks by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You volunteer hundreds of hours of your time, without pay, and all you hear from the members is complaint-after-complaint-after-complaint.

    You eventually reach a point where you say, "What am I doing this for? No one's appreciating it or saying thanks. I could be out having fun instead of this shit," and then you stop volunteering.

    You just described why I mostly use commercial software. Because they take all my complaining with a smile and a nod and get to work.