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Windows Drains MacBook's Battery; Who's To Blame?
ericatcw writes "Users hoping that Windows 7's arrival will mean less power drain on their MacBook laptops may be disappointed, writes Computerworld's Eric Lai. Running Windows 7 in Boot Camp caused one CNET reviewer's battery life to fall by more than two-thirds. But virtualization software such as VMware Fusion suffer from the same complaints. Some blame Apple's Boot Camp drivers (the last ones were released in April 2008); others lay the blame at Windows' bloated codebase. With Apple and Microsoft both trying to avoid responsibility for improving the experience, Windows 7's reported improvements in power management will be moot for MacBook users for a while."
I have a MBP 5.1, one with both the on-board and discrete Nvidia cards. OS X switches between them depending on whether it is going for power savings or performance.
The drivers for Windows XP and Linux do not seem to have this ability. When I'm doing nothing but surfing, I get about 4.5 hours of battery life in OS X, but only about 2.1 hours in Linux (Ubuntu Jaunty) and Windows XP.
I always assumed it was the inability of XP and Linux to switch to the on-board graphics card.
Just another proletarian malcontent.
FTFA: Other than that, Windows 7 has been working great on my MacBook Pro... It looks good, too, even prettier than when it is installed on PC hardware.
This reminds me of the iPod Nano review here at Slashdot that claimed that the Nano sounded great, even in a moving convertible with the top down. (http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/09/08/1439244)
Yes, it's the Apple magic that makes the software look better.
How can we know that the battery isn't simply returning strange battery level information to the OS that OSX knows how to parse but Windows doesn't? What a strange review.
This is slashdot, any issue involving microsoft is automatically their fault. Why RTFA when microsoft is to blame for everything that is wrong with the world.
I agree that there would be issues, but going from 4.5 hours of battery life on OS X on a MBP to 2 hours on any other OS is a little extreme!
I would love to be able to use Linux on my MBP as the primary operating system, but often it is impractical because of the limited battery life.
That being said, 2 hours is about standard for any other laptop I've owned, so maybe I should think of it as OS X being uncannily power-efficient. ;)
Just another proletarian malcontent.
Running Windows XP dual-boot on a MacBook Pro (what you people call "boot camp") also drains the battery a lot faster than OSX. I'm pretty sure Apple didn't put much effort into making sure all the hardware drivers worked anywhere near as well under Windows as they do in OSX. (additionally, I've seen display driver quirks and more iffy trackpad operation)
That's actually a designed feature. Maximum CPU usage is a terrible drain on environmental resources, and the extra heat generated by the CPU contributes to global climate change. So to encourage users to use less CPU power (or to focus on using it in bursts rather than constantly keeping the CPU pegged, Apple used a slightly underpowered power supply.
I thought it was a joke too when I first heard it from my friend at Foxconn (who worked on the HW design with Apple). He told them they would have this problem (and could solve it with a very simply HW change), and they explained that this was a deliberate design decision. So sometimes what looks like a bug really isn't, especially when it comes to Apple.
LOL... They do have that reputation. However, last time I went shopping for a notebook it was about the same price as a similarly-equipped Dell and so I went with the MacBook Pro. To be fair, some of the features are hard to price-compare - but the pricing was within 5%.
I haven't tried to run Windows on it - so far everything from Windows-land that I need to run works in Crossover.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
First, a quibble with your argument. You do not pay a "massive premium". Depending on what product you bought, you paid a slight premium or slight discount vs. a similarly-spec'd Dell.
Second, it should be pretty clear why one would occasionally need to run Windows in native mode. Aside from saving the additional cost of virtualization software, Boot Camp simply runs some programs faster. Also, if I hand my IT department my notebook to configure and it is in Mac mode, they'd have absolutely no ability whatsoever to load it up with the VPN software since they don't do Mac. Put it in Windows mode, and they give no complaints.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
OS X probably is able to adjust the power usage of specific pieces of hardware whereas Linux and Windows are not privy to the information on how to do so.
Multiple driver issues then, as running some OS in fusion isn't the same as in bare hardware, it's a whole new machine from the guest OS point of view.
If you run windows on the bare hardware, it will use nvidia and all other real hardware drivers.
If you run windows in fusion, it will use some "generic" hardware drivers.
So I somehow doubt it's a specific driver problem if it happens both in fusion and on bare hardware.
I gave up with the idea of an useful sig...
I bought a macbook because I wanted to run Leopard and XP. Consumer reports also rated Apple laptops #1 in all screen size categories. I'm also not poor so I spent a few xtra bucks.
I agree with you. For instance on my previous generation Macbook Pro, there is no way to tap the touch pad for a mouse click under Windows. You are forced to use the touchpad button.
On the face of it, it looks like an innocent little accidental omission by Apple, which they steadfastly refuse to fix. Since all the Windows drivers are provided by Apple, I believe it is deliberate on their part to degrade the user experience on anything but OSX. That is just typical mean-spirited behavior by Apple.
Acura was a brand that was created purely for the NA market (because americans like shiny things/luxury brands). There cars used to be sold as Hondas in Japan. One example has always been the Acura TSX, which is a Honda Accord in Europe.
On latest gen (nv9300 based) Mac Mini, I have installed Win7 64bit. It installed all the drivers and even clever to figure mainboard driver giving direct link to nvidia driver exe which is absolutely a very serious risk but anyway...
The ATA chipset driver is missing from Win7 since Apple didn't really put nv9300 chipset in exact way. So, it falls down to non DMA generic MS driver. Every single byte transferred to/from disk is guaranteed to use massive CPU along with horrible (down to 15MB/sec from 70MB/sec under OS X) slowness.
So, if Macbooks have similar issue with Windows 7, it could be same issue. As they are battery powered, it would be visible in battery life too.
BTW, there is no point testing Windows 7 until Apple releases boot camp for Windows 7. Apple computers aren't really PCs. If MS was really clever and wanted Windows 7 to be _really_ tested, they should have printed a very clear privacy policy on screen and actually make machine report all kinds of anonymous stats. That way, they could really figure what is going on. For example, a core duo powered 2009 machine shouldn't really max to 15mb/sec with a SATA 2 drive.
I couldn't even find something similar to bugreporter.apple.com when I wanted to report issues. All I saw is a stupid forum which beginner level MS engineers are monkeying with templates. They even made their own wrong answer as 'answer to the issue' while it would create massive compatibility problems in one occasion.
Apple can aggressively block any and all applications that they don't approve from and iPhone, aggressively tie the iTunes store with the iPod, and sue anyone who so much as speculates about their upcoming products--and that's just them "acting within their rights." But if MS so much as installs IE as the default browser on a Windows install, slashdotters are breaking out their pitchforks (never mind that Apple and Linux do the EXACT SAME THING on their OS's).
This "MS is evil. But Apple and Google can do no wrong" meme got tired a LONG time ago. I suggest a new graphic with Steve Jobs as a borg too.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Nope. There is. Keyboard backlighting works just fine on my MBP when bootcamped to XP. It does not, however, automatically adjust the keyboard backlight intensity with ambient lighting conditions as OSX does. One can still manually adjust the intensity with the keyboard buttons, if desired.
Come to think of it, I'm not actually sure the screen brightness adjusts dynamically in bootcamped XP either. It might be the same deal as the keyboard. I can't recall.
It could be little things like that adding up. Screen brightness is a major drain on battery power. It could be that since OSX can and does (by default anyway) aggressively ramp down the brightness whenever it can when on battery power, it's able to save more watts. Where if XP can't/doesn't do that (on an Apple), you'd get more of a battery drain. Just a thought.
Your post doesn't really have any rationale behind it but rather states your opinions such as "I have to question the wisdom of using a VM session for more than an hour or so on just the battery" and "that's kind of to be expected, IMO". My response would be why? I'm willing to listen by not just take your word for it. Explain.
.NET development in Fusion on my MacBook Pro (especially while traveling). Normally I'm plugged in when doing this but I do sometimes go on battery and I haven't had any issues. I know that not everyone does multi-platform development but if you do you and you find yourself traveling then you try to limit the amount of hardware you have to lug around. The easiest way to do this if you're doing OS X, Java, and .NET work is to use a Mac then run a VM for the .NET stuff, IMO.
As for your comments on usage patterns and there not being a need for this sort of usage, I sometimes do
"Boot Camp just resizes the hard drive so it can accomodate a Windows install and then you are able to dual-boot your system. It's also possible to install Linux on the other side for example. So it seems like Windows has an issue with the Intel or NVidia chipset, the processor or just plainly consumes more resources than Mac OS."
Not entirely accurate. Bootcamp also provides BIOS emulation, since current gen macs (not sure for how long though) use EFI.
I haven't read the article yet (of course.) but I wonder how battery life is when Win7 (which supports EFI) is installed "Natively", i.e. without BIOS emulation.
-- My Sig is a P228.
Maybe it's because you've used Windows since release 1.0, have a ton of applications for it, and just want to run them on a really sharp looking laptop?
IMO Apple would do well to open up their market a bit and offer MacBooks preloaded with Windows. They would destroy Dell & HP in the high end market.
Interesting, I hit this from the complete opposite direction. I'd only really messed with my iBook as far as laptops go (mostly used desktops with linux and windows). I got on a friends windows laptop, first time we were in a car on a road trip, so slightly bumpy and for the life of me I could NOT figure out why things kept activating, or responding to 'clicks' when I had not clicked any of the mouse buttons on the laptop.
He finally showed me that it would click by 'tapping' the touch pad.
Even after I found out about it...to use his laptop, I had to turn the tap pad thing the fuck off. I'm used to keeping my finger on the mouse pad most all the time, and it constantly was registering clicks when I'd not wanted to click anything.
So, depends on what you're used to. I often prefer to hook a mouse up to my laptops when I can...especially when using linux, so I can have the center button for quick pasting after highlighting for a copy.
But yes...that tapping thing was a surprise to me. I'm much more comfy with clicking a real button.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Honest Question here. Is the same behavior observed for Vista, or are we only talking about Windows 7? If we are only talking about windows 7, why does everyone expect Apple to have properly working drivers for a BETA version of Windows that hasn't been released yet.
But all those little features OS X knows about and uses properly. Boot Camp Drivers Cover most of them, Windows handles other ones.
Usually power is handled by ACPI. Apple has two opportunities to fuck up ACPI, in the implementation and in the driver. Most manufacturers do it by using Microsoft's tool to configure it, which creates a sort-of-compliant situation that has really complicated linux ACPI and ruined a lot of people's suspend/hibernate support. Windows can also handle properly compliant ACPI though, of course. Apple could have created a similar situation, or they could have created an ACPI driver included with boot camp which would also break everything. I don't know, since I don't have a mac, but I have been burned by ACPI problems in Linux over and over again.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Maybe, at least for the VM, it's neither Microsoft nor Apple, but rather VMWare. I wouldn't question the wisdom of using a VM session at all on battery or not. I do all of my browsing, email, IM, etc through different VMs, (eg. 1 VM for Firefox, 1 VM for Outlook, 1 VM for ICQ/MSN), I can't say that I've ever noticed it draining my HP Pavillion's battery any more than anything else really...
"Be prepared, son. That's my motto. Be prepared." --Joe Hallenbeck
People seem to think you are being reactionary, or a troll. But the truth is the touch pad worked fine in the Bootcamp beta, then at some point it got crippled.
Its a little too convenient. It wouldn't surprise me if there are other drivers poorly written to punish you for using WIndows.
Exactly: OH NO - the software I bought for the hardware it isn't supposed to run on doesn't work!