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Neuros LINK Mixes Quiet, Aesthetics, and Ubuntu

Posted by timothy on from the gone-to-seed-is-before-the-good-stuff-in-this-context dept.

jonniee writes with a link to Dr. Dobb's Journal's look at a rather cool living-room-suitable media-centric computer from Neuros (presented as being suitable mostly for developers and serious hobbyists for now), excerpting: "The Neuros LINK is essentially a quiet x86 PC running Ubuntu Linux with an ATI graphics card delivering video via VGA, DVI, and HDMI output. ... What makes the LINK such a compelling platform for these folks and Linux/open source developers in general is the recognition that a real business entity is stepping forward to spend the money necessary to market and commercialize what tech enthusiasts have been doing for years."

30 of 121 comments (clear)

  1. Yes but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Yes but does it run... wait... nevermind.

    1. Re:Yes but... by TheGreenNuke · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yes but can I sync it with my toaster?

    2. Re:Yes but... by inamorty · · Score: 3, Informative

      NetBSD Controlled Toaster

  2. Looks pretty good on features and price by OrangeTide · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It looks like it is only $250, not too bad. I could probably use it replace the Roku and AppleTV, which each kind of suck but at least do their one function well.

    I wonder how quiet it is, some of the pictures had fans...

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    1. Re:Looks pretty good on features and price by value_added · · Score: 5, Informative

      I wonder how quiet it is, some of the pictures had fans...

      At least you clicked the link. ;-)

      In the text accompanying those pictures it said 27dB. Not quiet, but not noisy either.

    2. Re:Looks pretty good on features and price by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The price is fine and all that. Unfortunately, at least according to my (personal) doesn't it doesn't look good in the literal sense. It looks like one of those cheap PCs back in the time when they were put on the desk below the monitor. The keyboard looks horrifying, too. Are all good industrial designers working for Apple?

    3. Re:Looks pretty good on features and price by addsalt · · Score: 2, Informative

      FYI - XBMC now runs very well on the AppleTV (aside from HD support). You can replace your Roku and AppleTV with, well an AppleTV. It removes all the crappy restrictions and provides a beautiful interface my 3 and 4 year olds can use and my wife is happy with. It might be worth a look if you haven't tried it

    4. Re:Looks pretty good on features and price by Thanshin · · Score: 4, Funny

      I wonder how quiet it is, some of the pictures had fans...

      Maybe the fans are to be pointed down to keep it levitating like a hovercraft.

      A very silent hovercraft.

      That runs linux.

    5. Re:Looks pretty good on features and price by Gorphrim · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The keyboard looks like it might be this Adesso model: http://www.amazon.com/Adesso-Wireless-Keyboard-Optical-Trackball/dp/B000JJM7S0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1249910929&sr=8-1 If so, my experience with it is that it is crap. Every time I woke the PC up from a sleep state, I had to re-sync the keyboard with the USB dongle. Typing sporadically dropped keystrokes, and the trackball was jittery. Overall it felt very cheaply made. Just my two cents.

      --

      Queens of the Stone Age - they rule
  3. Looking good by Osmosis_Garett · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One of the main things I look for in my entertainment systems is that they run quietly, and its promising to see a company develop a system capable of 1080p in a low sound output system. It is however disappointing to see that the system is just a reorganized PC, including multiple fans for cooling, which add the majority of decibels. As it takes on load (say, for running video in 1080p) and the fans kick it up to cope with the added heat, its going to increase in volume substantially, and as the system ages, it will start to make a fair bit of noise... not sounds I really want to be hearing as I'm engrossed in some sort of cinematic masterpiece.

    Ideally, I'd like a system much like the PS3 to use for a entertainment hub, something the PS3 is actually quite good at doing and doing quietly as well. Its just too bad that its a Sony product.

    1. Re:Looking good by OrangeTide · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Noise: under 27dB"
      That's from the device's specs. Although I'm not terribly impressed, that seems rather high for a box that needs to be near my entertainment center.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    2. Re:Looking good by Azaril · · Score: 2, Informative

      According to wikipedia, 27dB is actually as loud as a "very calm room", and is a minimum of 20 times quieter than talking. The PS3 weighs in at 24dB at idle, so this box is twice as loud as that (I believe from googling, that source shows the new, smaller process PS3 though this may not be the case).

  4. ATI? eek! by X0563511 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Using ATI in a linux MPC... that's just asking for trouble.

    I hope they give these things a _good_ testing...

    I see they are using an ATI Radeon HD 3200 - does anyone have any gaming performance numbers handy for this card, without all the benchmark-website-bullshit? If this thing works well enough... I may consider finally getting away from nVidia. But I thought these Radeon HD cards were giving Linux trouble? Did this get fixed?

    --
    For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    1. Re:ATI? eek! by javilon · · Score: 5, Informative

      There is another reason for considering Nvidia. They have vpdau:

      VDPAU (Video Decode and Presentation API for Unix) is an API designed by NVIDIA for its GeForce 8 series and later GPU hardware, targeted at the X Window System on Unix operating-systems (including Linux, FreeBSD, and Solaris).[1][2][3] This VDPAU API allows video programs to offload portions of the video decoding process and video post-processing to the GPU video-hardware.

      This would allow them to use fairly quiet and cheap processors, like the atom, and still get flawless HD 1080p output.

      --


      When his defense asked, "Which computer has Jon Johansen trespassed upon?" the answer was: "His own."
    2. Re:ATI? eek! by TeknoHog · · Score: 4, Informative

      In my experience, watching video on Linux is hardly limited by the graphics card, and you certainly don't need a gaming monster to get get good video. I'm only interested in a good Xv implementation for hardware scaling, since the video formats are evolving anyway.

      My current media machine has a Mini-ITX motherboard with integrated Intel graphics and a Core Duo T2300 at 1.66 GHz. When I watch 720p H.264 (that's the most my monitor is capable of), only one CPU is used at 60%, and of course everything is smooth. The machine has only one fan, rated at 24 dBA, but it's running at 7 V instead of 12, so it's even quieter. The power supply is a passively cooled one (like PicoPSU) rated at 80 W.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    3. Re:ATI? eek! by Bert64 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      On the other hand, the OSS drivers seem far more stable than the binary ones on hardware they do support (i have an older X1600), and a media player box like this is unlikely to need very much in the way of 3d capability... In this instance, the open ATI drivers are probably the best choice.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    4. Re:ATI? eek! by kinema · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What's wrong with XvBA from AMD/ATI? What does vadau offer that XvBA doesn't?

    5. Re:ATI? eek! by wagnerrp · · Score: 2, Informative

      Support. VDPAU is something that is in the drivers, and can be used right now. Last November, they added it to their beta drivers, and offered a patched version of mplayer to test and as a code example. XvBA has been rumored for years, and hints of it showed up in the driver in October, but it is still not functional.

    6. Re:ATI? eek! by jedidiah · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem with h264 "benchmarks" is that every h264 file can be different and
      the fact that you managed to get one particular sort of high res file to play on
      a particular system doesn't necessarily mean anything. Playing BBC or Apple web
      content is a bit different than playing and HD-PVR captures or BD rips.

      A $200 popcorn hour will play everything you throw at it.

      So will a $300 Revo running Ubuntu or Windows.

      This Neuros box is an interesting idea that was obviously flawed and
      somewhat behind the curve the moment it was announced.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  5. Even for power users... by MukiMuki · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Even for power users, HTPC's can be aggravating. Why, in a world where you could put together a tiny monster PC for around $300 would someone buy a MivX or NMT player? Simple. Take any HTPC on the market, ANY.

    Plug it into a regular, yellow, composite television.
    Plug it into an HDTV via component or HDMI.

    If you can turn it on, boot it up, and play a video on it without a single configuration edit without any hassle from installation, then please, reply to this topic because as far as I know, an HTPC that does this is akin to a fucking unicorn.

    I have an iStar Mini and a Popcorn Hour, both NMT devices. The Mini's in the living room. If I wanna take that thing to the kitchen TV (13", composite in), I just put the movie on a USB stick and it's showing the film inside of the 2 minutes it takes to set up and boot. When it goes back to the living room, it's an HDMI connection to the TV and coax to the (admittedly cheap) surround system. Works just fine, automatically detects 1080p at startup. Over component, I'd have to hit two buttons to get 720p or 1080i (worst-case, 480p is instantly automatically enabled).

    I had a friend try to build a MythTV box. Hours went by as this man tried to get MythTV to show up at a decent resolution on his HDTV (this was a few years ago, via DVI). This is a guy who runs and actually knows how to use Gentoo, and would be a sysadmin if he wasn't a programmer at a Fortune 500 company (A good one, you've probably used their services at some point(s) in the last six months). On the AppleTV, the first test isn't even a possibility without some insane level of hacking (especially if you want color out of the composite out). I can only IMAGINE what it's like an a Windows Media Center rig. And in the last two cases, playing videos other than Quicktime or WMV, respectively, (let alone something like MKV) is a hassle that goes more hours into getting up and running than those devices are probably WORTH.

    As crappy and low-end as the interfaces are on mini video boxes are, they happen to work remarkably well for the simple process of "Plug into TV, watch stuff", whether "stuff" is on a usb stick or the network. Give me a call when the HTPC manages to get there on a remote-friendly interface.

    1. Re:Even for power users... by Tx · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, I did battle with a couple of those little standalone media players, but in the end I went to the trouble of building and configuring a full-fledged (XP and MediaPortal based) HTPC. If you can live with the limitations of those stand-alone things, then fine. But when you run into an unsupported codec on those things, that's it, your only option is to convert the video on a PC. If you want a feature it doesn't have, say you want to add a tuner or whatever, you're stumped. Network performance (if any) usually sucks. There's really no comparison to the power and flexibility of a full HTPC, and yes, the HTPC takes a few hours of setting up, but once done, with a suitable remote and the right software, it's as remote-friendly as any of the little stand-alones.

      --
      Oh no... it's the future.
    2. Re:Even for power users... by jeffehobbs · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Check out the MSI media live bareBones. My daughter is watching Backyardigans right now via Ubuntu/Boxee. TV out has always worked, even 'out of the box.'

    3. Re:Even for power users... by jmac_the_man · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is most likely heresy, but my HTPC runs the Vista version of Windows Media Center just fine. I've got cable running directly into my capture card. With an "unofficial extension" (3rd party patch) it plays the (admittedly common) videos I watch. (No AVI support out of the box was a stupid idea, but that's fixed with the patch.) There's an official Netflix plugin for watch instantly. A one time wizard sets up the tuner and program guide. The interface works over HDMI, so long as I have external speakers plugged into the machine. (I don't, so I use a combination of stereo input and VGA, but that works on my TV.) I use the remote that comes with my case, which has a joystick for mouse navigation, but WMC translates that into keystrokes. I built this from scratch for about 700 bucks. (I got Windows at a discount though.) Add 70 bucks for video game controllers for emulators. And it's also a gaming quality PC. The only advice I can give is that you shouldn't skimp on the keyboard and mouse if you want to game on it.

  6. Maybe it will force Adobe to fix flash on Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Adobe Flash Player is the biggest CPU hog I have seen on my Ubuntu box, even with hardware acceleration enabled. Things have improved with version 10 but the experience is still considerably worse than flash performance on windows. Maybe if a few hundred thousand Neuros devices are sold, it will convince Adobe to put a serious effort into fixing these issues.

  7. Re:Nice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I use an old Dell gx620 with a Nvidia 8400GS. Running Ubuntu and Xbmc, easy as pie.

  8. But ATI doesn't support hardware x264 acceleration by sanermind · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Honestly, nvidia's vdpau is the only way to go now for playing hi-def content (like that produced by the HDPVR1212)on anything other than a super high end box. (Seriously, even my quad core2 clocked at 3.2Ghz can't handle high bitrate x264 hi-def), although I've heard there's an experimental ffmpeg branch that can decode across multiple cores.

    --

    ---
    the pen is mightier than the sword, the sword is mightier than the court, the court is mightier than the pen.
  9. Acer r3600 with NVIDIA ION by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    TFA reads like an ad...

    Here's another:

    Have a look at the r3600 from Acer. I have just bought one and it is fantastic. It passes the girlfriend test by being silent and attachable to the back of the TV -- no wires visible except the power cord, and it is pretty happy at decoding HD video, thanks to NVIDIA VDPAU (ION platform). Costs next to nothing and is available in a Linux configuration. Couple that with a nice TV and a wireless keyboard and you get a pretty neat setup...

  10. Re:But ATI doesn't support hardware x264 accelerat by wagnerrp · · Score: 3, Informative

    A 3.2GHz Core2 should be able to handle any video an HDPVR can throw at it. The HDPVR really isn't even that high bitrate. Peaking at 13.5mbps, it's less than half what you might find on Bluray disks. The problem is that it is single sliced. You can currently only use one core per slice. The ffmpeg-mt branch should being decoding within range of most dual core processors.

  11. Re:Nice by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Specifically any Nvidia chipset that will let you use VDPAU.

    mplayer now supports it and you can easily drive 1080p with an underpowered PC, as long as the video card is up to the task.

    (And if you're into that sort of thing, off hours you can be contributing to projects that use CUDA to offload to the GPU and thus do stuff much faster).

  12. Re:Nice by marcansoft · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The 8400GS is a great choice for a linux media center. I got an Asus EN8400GS Silent 512MB and highly recommend it. 512MB is required to decode some reference frame-heavy h.264, and the 512MB version seems to have a better heatsink (and it is, of course, fanless). There are also two versions of the 8400GS chip (one based on an older Gxx architecture - I forget the specific number), and the Asus card uses the newer one which has better VDPAU features.

    Of note, although not advertised, the card does have an SPDIF header - so with a simple RCA to pin-header cable you can get HDMI audio out of it with any DVI->HDMI converter. I've been using this card to watch a lot of 1080p HDTV lately without any issues. If you're looking for a cheap Nvidia card to do 1080p h.264 decoding with VDPAU to an HDMI TV (with audio), it fits the bill perfectly.