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HP Restores Creased Photos With Flatbed Scanners

An anonymous reader writes "Scientists at HP have developed a technique to detect creases in photographs using standard, unmodified flatbed scanners. Once correctly scanned into a computer, software can determine where the photograph's defect is, and artificially correct it to remove any trace of a crease or fold. The result is a spotless JPEG scan from a creased photo, with absolutely no modified hardware and no technical know-how required on the part of the user." They're using multiple light sources to do this, in a way that reminds me of last year's description of 3D image creation using an ordinary digital camera.

125 comments

  1. Nice by thewils · · Score: 4, Funny

    A fold-less centerfold :)

    --
    Once I was a four stone apology. Now I am two separate gorillas.
    1. Re:Nice by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 4, Funny

      It makes my blood run cold.

    2. Re:Nice by needs2bfree · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My memory has just been sold.

    3. Re:Nice by The+Archon+V2.0 · · Score: 2, Funny

      This will be great for pictures that are old, though not for ones that have been damaged by mold.

    4. Re:Nice by icemanx8232 · · Score: 1

      haha, gotta dig some up

    5. Re:Nice by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 5, Funny

      ...and it suddenly dawns on everyone exactly why Archon V2.0 failed in his childhood dream to become a lyricist...

      --
      This guy's the limit!
    6. Re:Nice by BForrester · · Score: 1

      If you might be so bold.

    7. Re:Nice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      My Angel is a crease-less centerfold

    8. Re:Nice by m3rc05m1qu3 · · Score: 1

      C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER !

    9. Re:Nice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should have kept those pictures rolled.

    10. Re:Nice by dov_0 · · Score: 1

      A fold-less centerfold :)

      Does it remove staples as well?

      --
      sudo mount --milk --sugar /cup/tea /mouth /etc/init.d/relax start
    11. Re:Nice by fodi · · Score: 1

      you mean mod some up... ya digg?

    12. Re:Nice by andreyvul · · Score: 1

      Why? So it can be RickUNRolled?

      --
      proud caffeine whore
    13. Re:Nice by bronney · · Score: 1

      DOH!

    14. Re:Nice by default+luser · · Score: 1

      I'm reminded of a scene from Critters where a shape-shifting bounty hunter changes form to match a centerfold photo.

      It's a perfect reproduction, including a giant staple in her navel. Sounds to me like they already had this wonderful technology - look maw, no folds!

      --

      Man is the animal that laughs.
      And occasionally whores for Karma.

  2. It looks shopped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can tell by the pixels and stuff.

  3. Wait, wait by sottitron · · Score: 5, Funny

    Won't this ruin my collection of photographs of creased paper?

    1. Re:Wait, wait by SlashDotDotDot · · Score: 5, Informative

      Won't this ruin my collection of photographs of creased paper?

      Actually, no, it won't. Since the method uses different light sources to build a partial 3D model of the actual shape of the crease, your mere photographic creases won't be detected. You can breathe a sigh of relief.

      --
      /...
    2. Re:Wait, wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Won't this ruin my collection of photographs of creased paper?

      No, young man...

      It will improve them; and repair some of the damage you've caused by "mishandling" them earlier. All that's needed is to repair the initial damage of stapler holes...

      But of course, you can move on and download jpegs...

    3. Re:Wait, wait by geekoid · · Score: 1

      funniest thing I ahve read on /. in a long time.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    4. Re:Wait, wait by scorp1us · · Score: 1

      Origami users beware!

      --
      Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
    5. Re:Wait, wait by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 1

      Won't this make my hobby of scanning folded pieces of paper harder?

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
  4. !unmodified by muyla · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In the article it says that they use an unmodified scanner, but later on they claim to control the lights of the scanner individually... how is this not modifing the hardware?

    1. Re:!unmodified by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      Modification implies a hardware change. Using lights individually is simply a new way to use something. Does not imply a hardware change.

    2. Re:!unmodified by muyla · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yeah, but I'm guessing there was no reason for the scanners to come with individual controls for each light before this technology

    3. Re:!unmodified by blackraven14250 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's also no reason for them to include the switches for each light in hardware when they can do it in firmware.

    4. Re:!unmodified by Bat+Country · · Score: 1

      Contrast control, avoiding light pollution in the sensors when scanning an undersized object, lamp longevity, improved support for scanning coarse film grain photographs, glare reduction on shiny objects...

      I could think of a few.

      --
      The land shall stone them with the bread of his son.
    5. Re:!unmodified by mcgrew · · Score: 2, Informative

      From a different FA:

      Now Malzbender's team has achieved the same effect using an off-the-shelf flatbed scanner. They rely on the fact that modern scanners use two separate light bulbs. This feature was added to scanners to improve colour quality, but it also lets you capture the image from two different angles. Re-scanning the object after rotating it 90 degrees provides a total of four different angles, more than enough to deduce 3D information about the object - mathematically, you only need three.

      To fix old, damaged photographs, the software flags every pixel in the scanned image that isn't lying flat against the scanner, an indication that there is a tear or a fold there. Then it automatically replaces those pixels by copying adjacent ones, smoothing over the damaged region

    6. Re:!unmodified by do0b · · Score: 1
      From TFA:

      Most flatbed scanners use two separate light bulbs to accurately capture all the colour in a photo. By controlling these independently of each other, two slightly different images (each taken from different directions as the bulbs move under the photo) can be captured of the same photograph. From these, rudimentary 3D information can be generated.

      --
      After 12 years and a few days, I finally gave in to the dark side and joined slashdot.
    7. Re:!unmodified by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The scanners in question are the HP G4010 and G4050 that are advertised as 6 color scanners while they actually are RGB scanners with two light sources that differ in spectral distribution. The two fluorescent tubes can be switched as single or in combination. This isn't a feature of flatbed scanners in general. All the other flatbeds have either one or two fluorescent lamps with no difference in spectral output. The last with the lamps at the opposite sides of the optical path to reduce shadow/texture effects. It is not unlikely that the same crease imaging and reduction can be done on scanners like that if the driver could switch the lamps individually. Normally the driver can't do that.

    8. Re:!unmodified by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Firmware can only do what the hardware lets it do. There's no reason for them to include two switches for the different lights to be under firmware control! (Why bother, when wiring them in series or parallel will save components?)

      The only thing I can think of is that at least one existing scanning mode only uses one of the two lights or something; so there is a reason to physically include the second switch under firmware control.

      (In actuality, it looks like the lights aren't under control at all and CNet are stupid. Merely that the shadows from having two lights and then rescanning from different angles gives the 3D clues to the processing program.)

  5. great.... by gandhi_2 · · Score: 1

    nothing worse than scanned centerfold porn. porn-wise, i mean. (:

    1. Re:great.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then you haven't met gorgor in a fark porn thread, then.

      http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/47680

  6. Not really by Radagast · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I was hoping they were using that 3D information to do something interesting to actually restore the image. They're not.

    They're basically using rudimentary 3D information that they can get out of the scanner to determine that a crease exists. They then remove it with a simple infill algorithm, which is as basic as it gets (although it often works ok), and which you can find in most image editing software. It's no coincidence that the example image they use has a crease going over mostly similarly colored and low-detail areas.

    So what they're doing is not an improvement to restoration, it's just an improvement to defect detection. Basically, it saves you having to tell the software where the defect to be fixed is, the fixing is the same quality as it's always been.

    --
    --Joakim Ziegler
    1. Re:Not really by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Could still save some people a lot of money. I did some consulting a while back for a company that, among other things, digitises archives. Libraries send them books and they scan them then manually open each file, draw a line along the curve of the page, and then let the machine deform the image to remove the curve along the line of the text. This step takes several times longer than the scanning phase to do well. If a machine can recognise the creases then they can get rid of the humans in this process and increase their throughput considerably.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:Not really by Bat+Country · · Score: 1

      If the crease did not destroy image detail (a creased Polaroid instant picture often gets nondestructive creases) this could remove warping and glare problems.

      --
      The land shall stone them with the bread of his son.
    3. Re:Not really by nine-times · · Score: 1

      So what they're doing is not an improvement to restoration, it's just an improvement to defect detection.

      That's still helpful, isn't it? It seems to me that part of the problem with any algorithm to automatically fix photos is that you have to make sure the software knows the difference between a defect and a detail. If it detects what it thinks is a crease or a scratch, but it's really part of the image, it might edit out something you don't want it to.

    4. Re:Not really by calc · · Score: 1

      Just use the Google method, of course there is the little problem of it being patented.

    5. Re:Not really by complete+loony · · Score: 1

      The scanning process Google use takes an image of the book from multiple angles, then they flatten out the image mathematically. But I doubt they are using off the shelf scanners to do it.

      --
      09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
  7. If the crease destroyed image info . . . by PeeAitchPee · · Score: 1

    . . . found ONLY along the crease, then they can't interpolate what was there. Period. This is just an improved version of the various touch-up tools in Photoshop etc.

    1. Re:If the crease destroyed image info . . . by timeOday · · Score: 1

      Strictly speaking that's true, although some really smart software could restore the original image with high probability, given that almost all real-world images contain certain predictable elements such as faces, grass, clouds, etc. If I give you a picture of the President's face with a little bit torn out, there are many other images where you can find most of the information that was almost certainly there. Now is it possible something novel was actually happening at that point on his face at the time? Yes, but not very likely.

  8. Other uses for 3D info by bugnuts · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The rudimentary 3D info can be used for improving all sorts of scans.

    How about...

    - Flattening a scan of a book (by the spine)
    - Focusing an area that's raised (products like Focus magic assume a section is all out of focus at the same level, whereas a map of the amount of lost focus is possible here).
    - Using the above, scanning non-flat items.
    - Scanning nearly-flat 3d surfaces.

    Add a lens that can vary focus (based on the light differential) and you'd have a good 3D scanner for one side of a mostly-flat item, and a flatbed scanner that wouldn't lose focus on slightly-raised papers.

    1. Re:Other uses for 3D info by 644bd346996 · · Score: 1

      The application that comes to mind first for me is using this technique to capture realistic bump maps for use in 3d graphics.

  9. Book valley detection by gurps_npc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What we really need is a copy machine/scanner that can detect the valley formed by the spine of a book being copied and automatically correct for it. That would be worth it.

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    1. Re:Book valley detection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Xerox did this already a few years back. And Google does it for their book scanning by projecting a laser grid and determining the 3d surface curvature of the book.

    2. Re:Book valley detection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What we really need is a copy machine/scanner that can detect the valley formed by the spine of a book being copied and automatically correct for it.

      That would be worth it.

      DMCA ;)

    3. Re:Book valley detection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Atiz makes consumer (simple, cheap) and professional (more options, expensive) software to do this, and they also sell the hardware (though you can just use a scanner or camera+tripod).

      It actually works pretty well. The only caveat is that you must frame the photos to meet their specifications (e.g. need a solid background border around the book being photographed). It is also pretty slow to process several hundred pages...

      http://snapter.atiz.com
      http://www.atiz.com/

    4. Re:Book valley detection by BACPro · · Score: 3, Informative
    5. Re:Book valley detection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What we also need is a Press Release detector for Slashdot so advertisements like this don't get posted.

    6. Re:Book valley detection by macraig · · Score: 1

      But, but, but... that would ruin my collection of photos of the valleys of female cleavage and buttocks!

    7. Re:Book valley detection by Shadyman · · Score: 1

      Epson scanners with DigitalIce do this too.

    8. Re:Book valley detection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FYI Google's method doesn't use flatbed scanners, they use a camera which is why the laser method works.

      This would be more difficult with a flatbed as you couldn't project a laser grid as easily.

    9. Re:Book valley detection by Frenchman113 · · Score: 1

      Why female?

    10. Re:Book valley detection by adolf · · Score: 1

      Can't? We not?

      The scanner itself uses a linear sensor that travels down one axis. Is there any compelling reason why the grid couldn't be projected similarly, one slice at a time, as the scanner moves?

      Cuz, I mean: If the scanner can't see the whole grid at the same time, then there's no reason for it to all be present at the same time.

    11. Re:Book valley detection by macraig · · Score: 1

      Ummmm... because I'm not?

  10. Old Idea Rediscovered by HP by mpapet · · Score: 1

    Applied Science Fiction was the first company to successfully market this as a 'dust and scratches' solution.

    Same idea, taken to a new level. Now, I hope HP's management is smart enough to get out of the way and bring this to market. It should definitely sell a few more scanners.

    --
    http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
  11. Quite so... by denzacar · · Score: 2, Interesting

    From the examples shown in the .PDF it seems that it is once again a case of a quick fix that only works on low-res and low detail photos, preferably in single color.

    And for it to work at all, you would need a 2-lamp scanner.
    Which are standard, but in high-quality print studios and other places that would do this kind of retouching by hand anyway in order to preserve or achieve better quality of the final product.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    1. Re:Quite so... by nine-times · · Score: 4, Insightful

      From the examples shown in the .PDF [hp.com] it seems that it is once again a case of a quick fix that only works on low-res and low detail photos, preferably in single color.

      That doesn't seem like a terribly bad thing to me. If you were a professional looking for extremely high-quality results, then yes, you're going to want to spend a lot of time screwing around with things manually on each photo. Even if it's a largely automatic procedure, you'll probably still want to tweak the parameters a little for each photo, including things like brightness, contrast, and hue.

      However, there's another real-world application for this sort of thing: someone like my grandmother scanning lots of old pictures that may have been folded, crumpled, or otherwise damaged. Even if it's not giving the highest quality results, if the results are at all better than not processing the photo, then it's probably fine. Without automatic quick fixes, people might either scan it and leave the damage, or decide not to scan it at all. Giving even barely passable results is an improvement.

    2. Re:Quite so... by adolf · · Score: 1

      My interpretation is different from that:

      EVERY bitmap image in the PDF is low-res and lousy in exactly the same way. This is an indicator of what DPI settings were used within Adobe Acrobat when creating the PDF, and not in any way telling of the quality of the original example photos.

    3. Re:Quite so... by dangitman · · Score: 2, Informative

      Which are standard, but in high-quality print studios and other places that would do this kind of retouching by hand anyway in order to preserve or achieve better quality of the final product.

      Actually, most images are restored using digital techniques these days, because it can achieve better results than doing it by hand. You'd only do it by hand if you were talking about something like a historical artifact or unique artwork.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    4. Re:Quite so... by denzacar · · Score: 1

      Observe the bitmaps closely and you will see the places where they were "fixed".

      The fact that it is not visible right away in the low-res photos shown in the PDF, directly indicates that said corrections would be more visible had the photos been of higher resolution.
      Also, examples show the following:

      - Girls: crease over single color surfaces.
      - Man leaning on a tree: black and white photo turned sepia.
      - Woman portrait: crease over single color surface.
      - Torn photo of a boy: black and white photo turned sepia. "Fix" quite visible.

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    5. Re:Quite so... by denzacar · · Score: 1

      However, there's another real-world application for this sort of thing: someone like my grandmother scanning lots of old pictures that may have been folded, crumpled, or otherwise damaged. Even if it's not giving the highest quality results, if the results are at all better than not processing the photo, then it's probably fine. Without automatic quick fixes, people might either scan it and leave the damage, or decide not to scan it at all. Giving even barely passable results is an improvement.

      First off, I would NEVER advise senior citizens and other people born decades before the invention of the term DTP and/or computers becoming a common household item, to do ANYTHING with photos other than store them in albums.
      Unless they have at least some elementary professional experience in dealing with photography I would most certainly advise them to contact a professional or their teenage grandson to do any digital task involving family or other memories in photographic format for them.
      Not only do the older people (usually) lack the necessary knowledge, but they also often lack the physical ability to tell the difference as the vision goes rather quickly with age.

      I've had enough cases of people bringing me a floppy full of .GIFs to have them printed as posters to know that the possession of a scanner and computer has nothing to do with even the elementary understanding of ways of its use.
      About 99% of people doing that were well over the age of 40.
      Not that 40 is old or anything, it's just that when they were in school only cursor they saw was on a typewriter or a slide ruler.

       
      Second, I doubt that your grandmother possesses the necessary hardware being that scanners with multiple (angled) lamps still tend to cost thousands of dollars for a used older model.

      Basically, at this point this technology is akin to employing a Formula 1 pit-stop crew at every gas station so they could replace all 4 of your tires in under 10 seconds each time you fill your gas tank.
      Using a technique and technology only available to particular professionals due to the cost, to provide a service that (almost) no "professional" would ever use - to the market of casual users.
      Car analogy - is there anything that it can't explain?

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    6. Re:Quite so... by nine-times · · Score: 1

      First off, I would NEVER advise senior citizens and other people born decades before the invention of the term DTP and/or computers becoming a common household item, to do ANYTHING with photos other than store them in albums.

      Well both my mother and grandmother scan family photos sometimes. They do it both for storage/archival purposes (but the archive is only for personal/family use), but also so they can email them around and things like that. They're not computer geniuses, but they're smart enough to use a scanner and even do some basic adjustments in Photoshop once they're digital. They're not going to contact a professional photographer just to scan some family photos.

      Right now, if they scan something with some kind of damage (scratches or creases), they just leave the damage in the photo rather than making any attempt

      Second, I doubt that your grandmother possesses the necessary hardware being that scanners with multiple (angled) lamps still tend to cost thousands of dollars for a used older model.

      That doesn't mean that your everyday scanner being sold 5 years from now couldn't have the ability to do an auto-repair to some degree. That's what I'm trying to point out. Even if the auto-repair isn't super-high quality, if the results are even a minor improvement over leaving the scratch or crease in-place, then it's going to make people in my family happy. Ergo, this technology, as imperfect as it is, is not useless.

    7. Re:Quite so... by denzacar · · Score: 1

      They're not going to contact a professional photographer just to scan some family photos.

      That is why I said "contact a professional or their teenage grandson".

      scanner being sold 5 years from now

      And that is why I said "at this point".

      But I have a feeling that 5 years from now something like "crease-fix" will be laughable.
      Although, I doubt that it will be this particular way of implementation. Multiple lamps can only make scanners more expensive.
      Maybe something along the lines of doing multiple scans while rotating the photo to get the similar effect?

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    8. Re:Quite so... by nine-times · · Score: 1

      They're not going to contact a professional photographer just to scan some family photos.

      That is why I said "contact a professional or their teenage grandson".

      But my point is that they scan things by themselves right now, already. They don't have any teenage sons or grandsons left, either.

      But I have a feeling that 5 years from now something like "crease-fix" will be laughable. Although, I doubt that it will be this particular way of implementation. Multiple lamps can only make scanners more expensive. Maybe something along the lines of doing multiple scans while rotating the photo to get the similar effect?

      Rotating the picture seems too complicated, and too much work. How much more expensive would two lamps be? What, you have to add another lightbulb? It might not even need to be bright in order to allow the computer to determine depth. Maybe a small LED mounted somewhere would do the job.

      I don't know if this particular approach to this particular problem will be used in any particular timeframe, but I still don't see this as a useless idea. It seems pretty clever and effective at what it's doing: discovering a certain set of physical flaws in a photograph.

    9. Re:Quite so... by denzacar · · Score: 1

      Actually...
      After reading through the PDF, I've found that they did that exact thing in one method - manually rotating images to get multiple angle scans of the same source.
      That method actually gives better results, as it covers the "perfectly aligned defects" better.

      On the other hand - they ARE in fact already putting a second lamp in some cheap(ish) scanners in order to increase the scanner's gamut - but the procedure does require multiple passes, first with one lamp then with the other.
      "Just a small LED" wouldn't cut it though, as the light needs to be uniform and carefully calibrated.

      So, the hardware is actually available to the casual user, but still... results (Quite similar to doing a quick "heal tool" pass across the crease in Photoshop)are far bellow those achieved by manual retouching while multiple scans and the processing do add time to the process.
      AND the examples shown are still rather "simple" in color and detail.

      Then again... I am a bit "professionally biased". OK... A lot.

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    10. Re:Quite so... by adolf · · Score: 1

      Do you expect perfection? Cuz, I mean: We're a long way from CSI's enhance button.

    11. Re:Quite so... by denzacar · · Score: 1

      Expect perfection? I DEMAND IT!!!

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  12. Heh Heh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...he said "crease."

  13. Uses of multiple light sources by Animats · · Score: 4, Informative

    Multiple light sources offer some interesting options. A few years ago, someone modified a digital camera (I think a Canon PowerShot) to have four flash sources instead of the usual one. The camera would take four pictures in quick succession, one with each flash. This allowed better edge detection.

    It was useful for applications like taking a picture of complex, dirty machinery (as under a car hood) and locating the edges, even where everything was roughly the same shade. It also helped when photographing very shiny objects, where the reflection from the flash was a problem. With each reflection from each flash unit in a different place, all reflections could be removed.

    It was too specialized to become mainstream, though. That seems to be the fate of 3D from 2D systems. Good ones have been built, but most have been either discontinued or turned into very expensive products for specialized use.

    1. Re:Uses of multiple light sources by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There will soon be much less need for 3D from 2D hacks, because there's a new technology coming that produces 3D pictures directly: Time-of-flight cameras. Today they are really expensive but they're going to become much cheaper very soon. This is what XBox's Project Natal is based on.

      --
      main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
    2. Re:Uses of multiple light sources by wwfarch · · Score: 1
      The original work on using multiple flashes for edge detection was done at MIT although I don't recall who it was actually done by. Not long after the paper came out I worked on an implementation of it for an undergrad research project with one of my professors (Chris Brown). We definitely used a canon powershot and built a rig to support the external flashes and microcontroller needed to control the process.

      Our particular aim was automating detection and classification of small bombs in natural scenes. These bomblets are huge problems wherever wars are fought as they stick around ready to maim and kill for many years.

  14. This is all so ironic by vandelais · · Score: 2, Funny

    since it will restore the upskirt I took of Carly Fiorina that I accidentally creased.

    --
    Game: Player 'Donald J Trump' now has AI skill level 'experimental'.
    1. Re:This is all so ironic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I don't think that's a crease - women naturally have that.

    2. Re:This is all so ironic by MartinSchou · · Score: 0

      That gives me an interesting thought. Will this be able to remove simple wrinkles in people's skin?

      I.e. you scan a picture of your grandmother, and all her wrinkles disappear?

    3. Re:This is all so ironic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      since it will restore the upskirt I took of Carly Fiorina that I accidentally creased.

      it will remove her crease!

    4. Re:This is all so ironic by rattaroaz · · Score: 1

      no, but botox can

    5. Re:This is all so ironic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um, ewwwww.

      Britney Spears...sure
      Megan Fox...hell yea
      Natalie Portman...duh
      Carly Fiorina...vomit

    6. Re:This is all so ironic by Eternauta3k · · Score: 2, Funny

      I believe you'd have to scan her face. Good luck getting her to comply (tell her it's laser surgery!)

      --
      Yeah. Would you choose a neurosurgeon who pokes around people's brains in his spare time? I wouldn't.
  15. sj by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A spotless JPEG? :/

  16. Correction - The Chudnovsky Brothers: Prior Art? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Make that the Unicorn tapestries

    Repatently,
    KT

  17. Enhance by atramentum · · Score: 0

    [Types random keys] Enhance! [Types random keys] Enhance!

  18. Re:The Chudnovsky Brothers: Prior Art? by The+Archon+V2.0 · · Score: 0

    reconstructed the warped the Unicorn tapestries circa 2003.

    Patently Yours, Kilgore Trout

    We've been leafrolled!

  19. Beer Goggle ware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What we need is software that will reproduce the effect of beer goggles. It'd come in handy updating photos of ex girlfriends after men have sobered up and come to their senses.

    1. Re:Beer Goggle ware by ericski · · Score: 2, Funny

      Drink more beer. Problem solved.

  20. Other restoration applications? by bitslinger_42 · · Score: 1

    I don't have any creased photos that I need to restore, but I've got boxes of matte finish prints that are a pain to scan. I wonder if a similar technique couldn't be used to automatically remove the scanning artifacts (little regularly-spaced crescent moon shapes) from those.

  21. Turn it by kilraid · · Score: 1

    Turn the picture around and re-scan, that way you effectively have the light coming from different angles by each scan. No need to modify the scanner.

  22. Re: accidentally creased by macraig · · Score: 1

    Aw, c'mon, admit it: the crease was deliberate because you were trying to spare your eyes and sanity!

  23. And exactly who gets this new feature...? by macraig · · Score: 1

    Do you suppose HP will be nice consumer-friendly guys and update their PrecisionScan software for previous scanner models? Nope: they'll roll this feature into software that'll only work with new scanners they wanna sell you. So, even though it doesn't REQUIRE new hardware, you can bet they'll figure out how to restrict it so that you still have to buy new hardware in order to use it.

    1. Re:And exactly who gets this new feature...? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have some questions macraig: It is part of a product line. It is not one product. They sell millions of 10-40 pound devices. Why use the words require or restrict? That is not what is happening. Every company has to do this. Have you heard of Wall Street? Should the company give you free stuff? You could be living in a communist country, though. At which point I have to employ cultural relativity and admit that everyone has a right to a perspective.

    2. Re:And exactly who gets this new feature...? by macraig · · Score: 1

      Were you not paying attention? It isn't "part of a product line". It isn't tied to specific hardware at all. It's applicable to virtually any/every scanner. How exactly do you conclude that it's "part of a product line"? I never said nor even implied that HP should give it away: people would gladly pay to buy software with this new technology FOR THEIR EXISTING SCANNERS. Those people would include me.

      I used the word "restrict" because I conclude that's exactly what HP is going to do with it. HP won't offer it for sale separately, even though it is in fact separate: what HP will do is restrict it artificially and use it to blackmail and coerce people into buying new hardware they don't need to use the new software. HP already has a history of doing this with their scanning software.

      Either get off your Libbie/Cappie high horse and join the real world, or ride off and make dust/FUD somewhere else.

  24. Lawsuit! I smell lawsuit! by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 1

    Applied Science Fiction was the first company to successfully market this as a 'dust and scratches' solution. Same idea, taken to a new level. Now, I hope HP's management is smart enough to get out of the way and bring this to market. It should definitely sell a few more scanners.

    Quoting a certain Francis Ford Coppola flick -- "I love the smell of (lawsuits) in the morning. You know, one time we had a (HP sued), (logging untold number of billable hours.) When it was all over, I (finally looked) up (the patent.) We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' (violation). The smell, you know that (sulfur) smell, the whole (office.) Smelled like... (heck.)"

    --
    ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
  25. And our local hotel ... by mikael · · Score: 1

    .. would like to patent the concept of removing the creases from a newspaper by ironing it under a dry towel.

    --
    Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
  26. Diffuse light sources for scanning is not new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Spirit Datacine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_DataCine) has used diffuse light sources to "get around" scratches in film for YEARS.

  27. Seriously? JPEG? by Ranzear · · Score: 1

    The result is a spotless JPEG scan from a creased photo

    I'm not sure if artifacts and compression are much better than just leaving the crease in the image...

    --
    Slashdot: Where opinions are just opinions until you have mod points.
    1. Re:Seriously? JPEG? by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I was wondering about that too. Really, there is no good excuse to not be using PNG these days.

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
    2. Re:Seriously? JPEG? by dangitman · · Score: 1

      PNG? Don't you mean RAW, PSD or DNG? PNG is useful for things like web distribution, but you wouldn't want to use it as a production format.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    3. Re:Seriously? JPEG? by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 1

      PNG is lossless but compressed, whereas JPG is lossy and compressed. Apparently these devices arn't already using RAW, PSD, or DNG but rather opting for JPG. If you're going to use a more "common" format like that, it should at least be something that's not nearly so shitty.

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
    4. Re:Seriously? JPEG? by dangitman · · Score: 1

      PNG is lossless but compressed

      So is TIFF, plus it has more features than PNG. So, why would I use PNG over TIFF?

      If you're going to use a more "common" format like that, it should at least be something that's not nearly so shitty.

      What do you mean by "these devices"? A scanner doesn't deliver a JPEG to the computer - it delivers raw data. It's up to the software to save the file in whatever format it supports. And I don't believe I've ever come across scanning software that doesn't support formats other than JPEG, they usually support TIFF and BMP at the very least.

      Anyway, JPEG isn't so bad. The compression ratio is excellent, and at higher quality settings, artifacts are largely imperceptible. If small file size is a concern, then JPEG is an excellent choice. And small file size does matter to many users, who send images via email, etc. In fact, it is possible to get better quality out of JPEG at the same file size as a PNG. JPEG's superior compression allows you to save the file at a higher resolution than an equivalent PNG, which cancels out any artifacts.

      You called JPEG "shitty." Now that's an over-the-top statement. JPEG is an excellent format, it was nothing short of a revolution when introduced - but it's not intended for every purpose. Just like PNG isn't.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
  28. [yawn] by psbrogna · · Score: 1

    Scientists invented the wheel too but I don't want to see it posted on Slashdot. Seriously, isn't this really old news? Removing creases in photos was one of the first things I remember everybody doing when scanners went mainstream sometime in the 80'.s

    1. Re:[yawn] by dangitman · · Score: 1

      Scientists invented the wheel? I don't think so. It was invented before science.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
  29. Doesn't restore photographs by BetterSense · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    This does nothing to restore creased photographs. What it does is scan the photograph, manipulate the digital image obtained, so that you can print out the image onto another piece of paper. This is not restoring the photograph. The photograph still has a crease in it.

    As a practitioner of traditional photography, I'm annoyed to no end by people who talk as if the concepts of "photograph" and "image" were one and the same. Photographs are unique physical objects that have mass. Speaking as if photographs are digital images is like speaking as if symphonies are .mp3 files.

    1. Re:Doesn't restore photographs by dangitman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As a practitioner of traditional photography, I'm annoyed to no end by people who talk as if the concepts of "photograph" and "image" were one and the same. Photographs are unique physical objects that have mass. Speaking as if photographs are digital images is like speaking as if symphonies are .mp3 files.

      That's stupid. A traditional print is made from a negative or slide, so by your purist philosophy, restoring the print isn't actually restoring "the photograph." Digital images are photographs and vice versa. What matters is the image, not the medium it is presented on.

      Your idea of the photograph would be considered silly and outdated by the photographers of 50 years ago.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    2. Re:Doesn't restore photographs by dangitman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      P.S:

      I probably shouldn't have used the term "purist philosophy" to describe your attitude towards photography in my previous post. Because it is neither pure or philosophy. A more apt description would be "nostalgic shortsightedness" or "ludditism."

      The word "photography" at its root, means painting, drawing or writing with light. And "light" is really the key theme, the other root of the word describing "capturing" the light more than anything else. A digital image displayed on a screen that is never printed, fits the definition perfectly, and could be argued to be more "pure" than a print because you are observing the emission of light directly. But I won't argue about purity, because that's a completely irrelevant concept here, as photography was never "pure" to begin with.

      I find your attitude to be insulting to photography. What is "traditional photography" anyway? Photography is a science, a craft, and an artform that has always been changing, and always at the cutting edge of technology and culture. Photographers have always been striving for new techniques and tools. To say that there is some "traditional" form that has some kind of purity or superiority to others is ludditism. Do you think that any of the pioneers of traditional photography would shun the digital form, rather than embrace it as a tool?

      I say this as a person who has explored your idea of traditional photography for many years, and who still sometimes uses film and darkrooms and cameras that are half a century old. I too, have nostalgia for black-and-white film and beautiful prints. But to say that a digital image is not a photograph, or is some how less worthy, is nonsense.

      Why is it that you are so annoyed by people who use "photograph" and "image" interchangeably? They are the same thing. Are you upset by people using language accurately? I think you're suffering from a very misplaced sense of romanticism and nostalgia. That's not good. Imagine if in earlier years, people acted on such romanticism, and decided that the Daguerreotype was the only real photography (it's certainly more "pure" than negatives and prints) and never developed flexible film, 35mm film, rangefinder cameras, SLRs and the like. Where would your traditional photography be now?

      Isn't your idea of traditional photography just a bastard stepchild of Daguerre and Talbot? Why aren't you using those metal plates instead of those newfangled films?

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    3. Re:Doesn't restore photographs by BetterSense · · Score: 1

      I'm amazed at the confusion over the semantic difference between a photograph and an image, but I point it out in this case because TFS cleary implies that they are restoring creased photographs, when what they are really doing is copying an image of the photograph and manipulating the image. That is noble if you want to save the image; to some people the image is all that matters. But you are not restoring the photograph, and to some people the photograph itself matters.

      ""A traditional print is made from a negative or slide, so by your purist philosophy, restoring the print isn't actually restoring "the photograph.""

      You don't understand the supposed "philosophy" you think I have at all. Restoring the print would be restoring the print. Restoring the image contained on the print would be restoring the image, but it wouldn't be restoring the photograph. TFS uses the term "the photograph" synonymously with "the image contained in the photograph".

      Of course traditional photographic prints are photographs; they are usually made by photographing an original camera negative, copy negative, color separation, or something else; they are objects written onto by light, and thus they are photographs. Negatives are also photographs themselves as you pointed out irrelevantly, as are slides or positive Polaroids. The definition of a photograph is very broad, simple and obvious...if an object itself carries an image that was literally drawn with light, that object is a photograph.

      Photographs are not images. Photographs contain images. Images are concepts; they are not even objects, have no mass or reality about them and are not photographs. When you look into a mirror and see an image of yourself, that is not a photograph. It is an image, but not a photographic image. When you look through a telescope you see an image, but that's not a photograph image, just an image. When you take a pencil and make a drawing, that is an image, but it's not a photograph. When you look at your computer monitor at any sort of picture, you are viewing an image, but it's not a photograph. Digital images are not photographs any more than drawings or paintings or reflections in mirrors or many other kinds of images are photographs.

      It should be clear that digital cameras don't produce photographs considering they don't produce any objects at all...their main advantage over photographic processes is that they can obtain images WITHOUT the trouble of generating a photograph that can get lost, costs money, takes up space, and has to be copied later! They are awesome, efficient imaging devices that read the image that the lens projects onto the sensor and convert it into numbers that represent said image. Those bits represent an image, they encode an image, but they are not, themselves, "a photograph"; the idea itself should be silly.

      Now, if you used an inkjet printer to print out a digital negative of that image, you would then have an inkjet print, written by jets of ink; still not a photograph. If you put that negative in a photographic enlarger or copy camera and made a photographic print, that print IS a photograph. A photograph of the digital negative, in fact!

      TFS exhibits muddled thinking and equates a photograph with its image with its claims that HP is "restoring creased photographs". They are imaging a photograph and manipulating the image contained on the photograph, but they are not restoring the photograph. The photograph is still creased. Which is the weakness of photography; digitally storing images has many obvious advantages over photographically storing them.

    4. Re:Doesn't restore photographs by BetterSense · · Score: 1

      I have no illusions of granduer nor do I feel that photographic processes are better at imaging than digital processes; I'm sorry if you got that idea somewhere. You seem to have your panties in a bunch over the fact that I understand the difference between an image and a photograph. Digital imaging is superior to photographic imaging in countless ways that I shouldn't have to mention; that's why photography is obsolete and digital is taking over everything commercially. Doesn't change the fact that a digital image is not a photograph. You can print a digital image out photographically and obtain a photograph, but that doesn't make the digital image a photograph. You can can take a lens and some light-sensitive material and obtain a photograph of the Grand Canyon photographically; that does not make the Grand Canyon a "photograph". Your assertion that photographs and images are the same thing is groundless and nonsensical.

    5. Re:Doesn't restore photographs by dangitman · · Score: 1

      Digital imaging is superior to photographic imaging in countless ways that I shouldn't have to mention; that's why photography is obsolete and digital is taking over everything commercially.

      Photography is obsolete? Since when? Digital imaging is photography. Photography is more relevant than ever.

      Doesn't change the fact that a digital image is not a photograph. You can print a digital image out photographically and obtain a photograph, but that doesn't make the digital image a photograph.

      Where the hell do you get this idea from that a photograph has to be printed on paper? Digital imaging is a photographic process. Nothing about the definition requires the light-sensitive medium to be chemical.

      You can can take a lens and some light-sensitive material and obtain a photograph of the Grand Canyon photographically; that does not make the Grand Canyon a "photograph".

      What the hell? When did anyone ever say that taking a photograph of an object makes the object itself a photograph?

      Your assertion that photographs and images are the same thing is groundless and nonsensical.

      No, your assertion that a digital image is not a photograph is groundless and nonsensical. Seriously. Explain to me why a digital image can't be a photograph.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    6. Re:Doesn't restore photographs by dangitman · · Score: 1

      ...if an object itself carries an image that was literally drawn with light, that object is a photograph.

      But why does a photograph have to be an object? Where in the definition and practical use of the term is this specified?

      Furthermore, why does an object have to be physical? There is such a thing as a digital object.

      Digital images are not photographs any more than drawings or paintings or reflections in mirrors or many other kinds of images are photographs.

      Nonsense. An image in a mirror or a telescope is not a photograph, because it is not fixed, or recorded. A digital photograph is a photograph, because it is a fixed or recorded image. Put a digital sensor on that telescope, and you can make a photograph.

      Is an article published in an online journal not published, because it is not printed on paper? I don't think so. Is graphic design for a website not graphic design because it isn't printed?

      Those bits represent an image, they encode an image, but they are not, themselves, "a photograph"; the idea itself should be silly.

      Why?

      You appear to be confusing photography with printing. Two entirely different things.

      It doesn't matter whether silver halide in an emulsion captures an image, or an electronic sensor does. They are both photographic processes.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    7. Re:Doesn't restore photographs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now, if you used an inkjet printer to print out a digital negative of that image, you would then have an inkjet print, written by jets of ink; still not a photograph. If you put that negative in a photographic enlarger or copy camera and made a photographic print, that print IS a photograph. A photograph of the digital negative, in fact!

      The problem for your definition of a photograph is once I have a digital image, I can quite trivially have it printed on photographic paper. At which point how do you distinguish it from a "real" photograph.

      In fact to further complicate matters, lots of cheaper places these days after developing your film, scan it in and then print it on photographic paper using the same method (scanning lasers) as they would for printing a digital negative.

      If I use my film based camera to take a "photograph", I end up with a negative or a slide which also fails your definition of a photograph.

      Frankly you are trying to be a purist, but unfortunately your arguments don't stand up to the test of logical argument. so you just look like an idiot.

    8. Re:Doesn't restore photographs by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      No you don't understand the difference between a photograph and an image, because your comprehension of the English language is flawed.

    9. Re:Doesn't restore photographs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The GP has a point; in a technical discussion, it makes sense to draw a distinction between the image and the medium it's recorded on. The article talks about 'restoring' the image of a creased photo, not restoring a creased photo.

      Using word 'photograph' for both the image and the physical object that contains the image can cause misunderstandings.

    10. Re:Doesn't restore photographs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is it that you are so annoyed by people who use "photograph" and "image" interchangeably? They are the same thing.

      They most definitely are not, or would you not call a drawing an image? A photograph is an object that *carries* an image; a medium. An image is something in which we perceive a likeness of something that the thing itself is not.

      The GP is not romanticising old-style photography, he's merely drawing a semantic difference between a photograph and an image on one hand, and chemical and digital photography on the other.

    11. Re:Doesn't restore photographs by dangitman · · Score: 1

      They most definitely are not, or would you not call a drawing an image?

      Yes. A drawing is a subset of the term "image." A photograph and a drawing are both images. A photograph is an image created by photographic processes (i.e - response to light).

      Is drawing on a computer with a Wacom tablet somehow not drawing because it doesn't involve pencil and paper?

      A photograph is an object that *carries* an image; a medium.

      No, a photograph is the image, or at least a version of it. Even if you insist on it being an object, there's no reason it has to be a physical object. A digital object performs the task just as well.

      he's merely drawing a semantic difference between a photograph and an image on one hand, and chemical and digital photography on the other.

      It's a semantic difference that is incorrect, and entirely irrelevant to the use of the term. You yourself called it "digital photography" - if we were to subscribe to the GP's POV, that would be an incorrect usage of the term "photography" because he claims that a digital image is not the result of a photographic process.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    12. Re:Doesn't restore photographs by dangitman · · Score: 1

      The GP has a point; in a technical discussion, it makes sense to draw a distinction between the image and the medium it's recorded on.

      That's why we use the terms "print" and "negative" for the medium it is carried on. The term "photograph" refers to any image that is the result of a photographic process. It does not refer to the medium used to view it.

      The article talks about 'restoring' the image of a creased photo, not restoring a creased photo.

      Substitute the word "print" for "photo" and you have a correct answer.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
  30. Chorus {Repeat 3x} by Guppy · · Score: 1

    ...and it suddenly dawns on everyone exactly why Archon V2.0 failed in his childhood dream to become a lyricist...

    It's okay, we're getting to the part of the thread that doesn't have any words:

    "Naah-naah-na-na-na-na, Nah-nah-nah-nah-nah-na-na-na-na-na-naaa...."

  31. Doctor, doctor, my buttocks are sealed shut! by marciot · · Score: 1

    Pervs who sit on scanners/photocopiers to get a picture of their naked butt-cheeks are going to be in for a surprise.

  32. Novel Events by Beardydog · · Score: 1

    Finally, I can accomplish my lifelong dream of restoring the Zapruder film!

  33. HP engineers, here is the next man-size problem! by Max_W · · Score: 1
    There is no tool to cut out an image of an item from the background automatically. It is needed for the e-commerce, because an item should be "flying in the air".

    There are several tools, but they are using technique of analyzing colors and by this detecting borders on an item. It does not work with every image, more correctly it does not work with almost every image. It sometimes work if an item is, say, of even dark color on a white background.

    We are always shooting the same items: bottles, boxes, cans, TV-sets, phone sets, etc. Maybe it is possible to use not only a border detection technique, which does not work, let us put it mildly, ideally, but include into the program basic shapes of items, so that borders of items recognized more accurately?

    This innovation would save the eyesight to thousands of e-commerce photographers. I have to cut out an item from background about 100 - 200 times per shift. The only reliable way to do it is using the tool "Path" of GIMP, placing points of a path manually along the image border and then bending this path's line manually along the item border. Then making a selection from a path, feathering selection, inverting it, and finally cutting out the background.

  34. Not automatic... by pedestrian+crossing · · Score: 1

    ...but Quick Mask is your friend. I used to muck about with the path tool (no end of frustration there), but being able to paint/erase the quick mask and switch back to selection has changed all of that. Use an automated selection tool to get your selection 90% of the way there, use quick mask to get the rest of the way...

    --
    A house divided against itself cannot stand.
  35. Let me guess... a member of the Literary club? by denzacar · · Score: 1

    Which would explain the literal approach to the term "by hand"?*

    Pray tell - how would one use a scanner (mentioned in the sentence above the one you quoted) in the "restoration by hand" that you envision?
    As a work surface that you can put your brushes and chemicals on?

    *Meant as a joke, not a troll.
    On the other hand... If a mod with points to spare does find it to be trolling, this is my message to them: "SCREW YOU and the (figurative) horse you rode in on!"

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  36. Re: [yawn] - followed by even more yawning ... by psbrogna · · Score: 1

    A scientist is a person that practices science. Science is the business of knowing. The origins of the wheel do not predate "knowing" or the pursuit or investigation of new knowledge.

  37. Re: [yawn] - followed by even more yawning ... by dangitman · · Score: 1

    No, a scientist is someone who applies the scientific method. The scientific method had not been invented before the wheel was. Do you even know what science is? By your definition, I'm a scientist because I know the name of my next-door neighbor.

    --
    ... and then they built the supercollider.
  38. Yeah, but... by teh+dave · · Score: 1

    Sounds pretty cool. But it is by HP, so too bad it will be 3.5GB to download, which will unpack into a 12GB program that needs 2GB of RAM to run and uses up 50% of your paging file before it even starts processing an image, and will advise that you need to invest in your own 64TB SAN full of 15krpm SCSI disks to make it work properly. And will use custom form controls. That are black. And made in Flash.