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Why the UK Needs the Pirate Party

Posted by samzenpus on from the representative-piracy dept.

Barence writes "The UK Pirate Party wants to reform copyright and patent laws, abolish the surveillance state and increase our freedom of speech, and it's just been recognized as a political party. In this interview with PC Pro, UK Pirate Party leader Andrew Robinson explains how he's planning to shake up the political landscape. 'What we really want to do is raise awareness, so that the other parties say "bloody hell, they've got seven million votes this time out," or one million votes, or enough votes to make them care and seriously think about these issues.'"

46 of 363 comments (clear)

  1. Sounds promising, but... by IBBoard · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It sounds promising that we now have a "Pirate Party" in the UK who will stand up on copyright issues, but I suspect they'll take it too far. It makes sense to decrease the legislation that is heavily in favour of the company rather than the consumer (things like making it illegal to make personal backups or making fines for infringement hugely out of proportion) but if they get to complete freedom to pirate everything then they've taken it too far the other way and the economy will falter again.

    People need the right to own what they've bought, but people don't need the right to own everything for free that's digital.

    1. Re:Sounds promising, but... by blackraven14250 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, but the way you get a major party to be moderate on an issue is by having an extreme viewpoint yourself. At least that way the votes get distributed across the spectrum instead of concentrated at one side.

    2. Re:Sounds promising, but... by BuR4N · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Its all about stir things up in a political environment that tends to see things from a 1987 perspective. Times have changed, media industry and politics understanding of it has not (at least not as much as it should have to be in sync with the world we live in).

      It have worked quite well here in Sweden, the pirate party have woken up the other parties when polls started to show that they might even get into the Riksdag ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden#Modern_political_system )

      --
      http://www.intellipool.se/ - Intellipool Network Monitor
    3. Re:Sounds promising, but... by damburger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They do have that right. Any property 'right' that require doors to be busted down and personal encryption keys to be demanded by threat is not a right at all.

      --
      If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
    4. Re:Sounds promising, but... by noundi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It sounds promising that we now have a "Pirate Party" in the UK who will stand up on copyright issues, but I suspect they'll take it too far. It makes sense to decrease the legislation that is heavily in favour of the company rather than the consumer (things like making it illegal to make personal backups or making fines for infringement hugely out of proportion) but if they get to complete freedom to pirate everything then they've taken it too far the other way and the economy will falter again.

      People need the right to own what they've bought, but people don't need the right to own everything for free that's digital.

      They're supposed to take it too far. Sweden was one of the first countries (if not the first, I'm not sure) to have a pirate party, nowadays with mandate in the European Parliament. The Swedish PP are very down to earth. They openly admit to not having a thorough agenda based on ideologies, such as the traditional party. However their intentions are not to win any election. Their intentions are to raise these questions, and force other parties to take a stance on them. The same year as the Swedish PP was formed many other parties officially took a stance on filesharing, privacy concerns and copyright/patenting. They are just as important for the societies of the modern world, as RMS is for FOSS. We all think RMS takes things a bit far sometimes, but you have to remember that there are far more "extremists" on the other end, those pushing for rights to more intellectual property and patenting. His function is absolutely necessary in order to land somewhere in the reasonable middle. Where producers and consumers get fair terms. Sadly people tend to think in black and white without realising the difference the pirate parties make without ever stepping a foot inside the parliament.

      --
      I am the lawn!
    5. Re:Sounds promising, but... by Odinlake · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yup, and I think that if the pirate party of Sweden had taken a more moderate (reasonable) standpoint they would have been boring and quickly forgotten. By being outrageous they are now known by near enough everyone and got 7% or something like that (one seat) in the election to the European parliament. No, I think "outrageous" is just the way to go.

      And come on - do you really think by giving them your vote you would risk a sudden abolishment of copyright?!

    6. Re:Sounds promising, but... by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Would the DMCA have breezed through the congress quite so easily if there were two million votes on the line...?

      --
      No sig today...
    7. Re:Sounds promising, but... by init100 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      but I suspect they'll take it too far.

      Politics is all about making deals in the middle of two positions. Most copyright proponents are extremists in their position that copyright should last forever, infringement should have harsh penalties, and that government must monitor everyone to ensure compliance. By taking an extreme position in the other direction, the result of political dealing and wrangling is more likely to be the middle road where you really want to be, than if you take that middle road already from the beginning. In the latter case, the end result will be somewhere in the middle between your middle road, and the current copyright maximalists.

    8. Re:Sounds promising, but... by Andy_R · · Score: 4, Informative

      There is a balance to be struck between extremism and populism. As party leader (yes, that's me being quoted in the article) I'll have an easier job of convincing sceptical voters and politicians that the current copyright term is too long than convincing them that copyright is unneccesary - and course my own view as a hobby musician is that copyright law is actually a good idea, it's jut the current lobbyist-driven draconian implmentation of it that's the problem. ... and now back to watching the server melt :-)

      --
      A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
    9. Re:Sounds promising, but... by Znork · · Score: 4, Interesting

      and the economy will falter again.

      Copyright (and other IP forms) are functionally equivalent to a form of taxation. It's transfer of money from one sector of the economy to another, and as such it does not affect the strength of the economy outside its comparative efficiency at generating value for the spent resources.

      Perhaps you wish to claim that the copyright industries are extremely efficient at generating value for their consumers, much more than the value the consumer would have gotten from the alternate products he would have bought for those funds, but frankly, most breakdowns of where the money goes indicate otherwise. Which would suggest that copyright damages the wealth generation of an economy as a whole.

      And of course, compared to a really optimized system of IP creation without monopoly effects and middleman funding, the economic outcome if utterly atrocious.

    10. Re:Sounds promising, but... by jhhdk · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Sweedish pirate party is not unreasonable or extremist. They will abolish patents completely and make private filesharing legal, but they will maintain a 5 year copyright term for commercial usage. Seems reasonable enough to me.

    11. Re:Sounds promising, but... by Husgaard · · Score: 4, Informative

      And come on - do you really think by giving them your vote you would risk a sudden abolishment of copyright?!

      Hardly, since the Pirate Party does not want copyright abolished, but reformed.

      We want patents abolished, though.

    12. Re:Sounds promising, but... by CarpetShark · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yeah, but the way you get a major party to be moderate on an issue is by having an extreme viewpoint yourself.

      Yes. Much like the way to get proprietary vendors to support open platforms and protocols is to launch a Free Software organisation, build an OS, popularise a Free license, etc. To some, it's extreme. To others, it's just the extreme balance to an extreme position taken by others.

    13. Re:Sounds promising, but... by Andy_R · · Score: 5, Informative

      As party leader, I can promise you that our policies are not more extreme than publically stated, we are well aware that there needs to be balance in copyright law, and that artists need to be financially rewarded when their work is sold... of course even though I've only been a politician for a couple of days you might not trust me, so I'd invite you to head over to our forum and actually take part in our decision making processes. You will of course see views expressed that are both harder and softer than the party's official line, but I hope you'll also see that we are a rational, balanced group of people.

      --
      A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
    14. Re:Sounds promising, but... by jez9999 · · Score: 3, Informative

      ... and we're considering policy to protect FOSS because of that. We're aware of RMS's letter on it.

      --
      == Jez ==
      Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
    15. Re:Sounds promising, but... by Husgaard · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You have a good point when you say that allowing all non-commercial use of copyrighted works is almost the same as abandoning copyright for the masses. And this is what the Pirate Party wants.

      If we do not allow non-commercial use, somebody has to check all private communication to check if copyrighted works are infringed. Would you like some government entity to eavesdrop your private communication with your local journalist, lawyer, doctor, priest, or secret lover? We pirates think that a society where private communication is impossible cannot stay democratic in the long run.

      The alternative - no monitoring of private communication - is almost as bad. This way people can break the law with no risk. Many people have a strong incentive to break the law here: Free access to cultural content. But if a majority of the citizens regularly break the law, they also loose respect for the law. Lack of respect for the law is extremely dangerous for our society, as it is based on people respecting the law.

      In many countries there are equivalents to "fair use", allowing non-commercial use of copyrighted works. But these exceptions in copyright law are under attack and almost every adjustment of copyright law these days seem to remove some of the rights to non-commercial use we citizens have.

      For example: In my country before 1995 I could legally mail a copyrighted mp3 to a journalist. Today this is illegal. I do not want our government (or anybody else for that matter) to monitor my private communication with journalists. If such communication is monitored, the principle of source confidentiality of journalists would be broken, and nobody would dare to tip journalists about for example government abuse.

  2. Re:Need yes, Succes? by blackraven14250 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If you don't work towards change, you may as well accelerate the speed with which you go into a nasty future

  3. ïI might vote for them, but it is futile by damburger · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The UK political scene is completely stagnant, and will remain so regardless of any new political parties. Having taken public choice theory as license to be as corrupt as they like, politicians have given up any pretense of public service and now do what they are told for money. Simple as that. Because this same money controls the public discourse through the media, nobody who doesn't play this game has a chance.

    The system is set up to resist any change to the social order. Class mobility has collapsed, wages are down and unemployment is up. Life is increasingly wretched for the poorest whilst being increasingly comfortable for millionaires in the City. Minor political parties are not going to change any of this.

    Change will not come to the UK through elections, protests or revolutions. It will come through stagnation and then collapse

    --
    If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
    1. Re:ïI might vote for them, but it is futile by damburger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I do not own a TV station or a newspaper, so no matter how I express myself, I simply cannot reach enough people. Its a waste of my energys to engage in something so futile.

      --
      If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
    2. Re:ïI might vote for them, but it is futile by EdgeyEdgey · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Try chaining yourself to some railings.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffragette

      --
      [Intentionally left blank]
  4. Arr! by mach1980 · · Score: 5, Funny

    First things first. Top priority for the pirate party should be to make speak-like-a-pirate-day a national holiday.

    --
    Break the sound barrier - bring the noise.
  5. So, about that DMCA... by Hordeking · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is great. When do we get one of these in the US?

    --
    Disclaimer: The opinions and actions of the US Gov't are in no way representative of those held by this author or its ci
    1. Re:So, about that DMCA... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      http://www.pirate-party.us

  6. Raising awareness works - example Germany by Fusselwurm · · Score: 5, Informative
    from TFA:

    'What we really want to do is raise awareness, so that the other parties say 'bloody hell, they've got seven million votes this time out', or one million votes, or enough votes to make them care and seriously think about these issues.'"

    In Germany, a recent poll showed a 2% support rate for the pirate party (Piratenpartei).

    And lo and behold! Suddenly, politicians of other parties are discovering their love for the pirates' topics...

    (links in German, and I'm too much a of a lazy ass to translate)

  7. Re:The UK already has one dumbass party by twoshortplanks · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Actually, the Pirate Party, putting all issues about copyright infringement aside, has one proper issue that I think is interesting. It's to do with encryption and privacy.

    The concern is about how much the media owners and government have the "right" to monitor what you're doing. If you stipulate that the government should prevent copyright infridgement, it's not a big leap to say that they should monitor people to check that they're not breaking the law and punish those that do. Which is fine, until you realise that you've just said that the government should monitor all your communications, and the public shouldn't have the right to have private communications that the Powers In Charge don't read.

    Now, I'm not overly worried about this in the UK right now with our current government (who, let's face it, are under the thumb of the press and more likely to try and waste taxpayers money to clean their private moats than oppress the masses), but if history has shown us anything preventing citizens from being able to privately critique government bodies without those bodies being able to read all the criticisms is not a good thing... I'm not really sure where the line between upholding the law and curtailing the citizen is drawn - and it's not just on this issue that it's worth thinking about, but it is, at least, worth thinking about. So I welcome the discussion.

    --
    -- Sorry, I can't think of anything funny to say here.
  8. Re:A big undertaking by arethuza · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You mean like the "make us and our friends rich" basis for the other two parties in the UK?

  9. Mod parent up by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Very few people want "no copyright" but an awful lot of them want "less government"

    --
    No sig today...
    1. Re:Mod parent up by Aeternitas827 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Very few people want "no copyright" but an awful lot of them want "less government"

      Well said; we're getting to a point that 'piracy' is an inevitability...music, video, etc, is GOING to be shared, and the way interpretation of copyright law is going these days, any victory for the Industries gets one step closer to extreme government oversight and penalisation for things that, ultimately, end up being relatively minor. Copyright laws, as originally written and intended, were to prevent someone from taking the printed words or phonographed music of one person, and claiming it as their own, to make it a profit. It's been bastardized to excess now, though, and even though we've seen suit after complaint after appeal after suit on the whole subject, not a thing with copyright law or dealings related to infringement has seemingly changed EXCEPT to favour the Industries with increased prying by the lawyers with Government OK's in doing so.

      In the end, it's a hopeless endeavor, make token efforts to put in limitations on physical media, and when they get cracked, take some solace in the fact that records are still being sold (or downloaded from iTunes), and that people will still flock to a movie theatre (probably for the popcorn)..

      --
      I don't post AC. I like my -1, Flamebaits. Trump/Sheen 2012 on the Batshit Insane ticket!
  10. Futile! by Frans+Faase · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The UK has a two party system, just like the USA. For this reason, new parties, almost make no chance to get any political power. This is due to the district system, in which it is not true that all votes are equal. Because you need to gain majority in a sector to get someone in the parlement. People are not inclined to vote on a small party if it is almost sure that they will not get any significant representation in the parlement.

    If such a party would be established here in the Netherlands, it might make a better chance of getting at least a few representatives in the parlement because we do not have a district system and each vote has the same weight.

    Maybe the should also include the abolishment of the district system as a part of their program.

    1. Re:Futile! by Tom · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They can still make a difference, especially in a 2-party system.

      Yes, the two major parties will not fear losing to them. But they might fear losing enough votes to the pirates so that the other major party prevails. Once the pirate party gets a considerable number of voters, the other parties will take up their ideas, in order to win back those voters.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  11. Got my vote - maybe by Karem+Lore · · Score: 4, Insightful

    All the other parties are useless anyway:

    Labour (Sorry, New Labour) is just a conservative in sheeps clothing, spend too much on public services that then go cut those services...ABC Bin collection in point, my bin is emptied every 2 weeks...My babies nappies and the flies are horrendous
    Conservative are just out to enrich their own pockets (well, so are labour TBH) and make rich people richer and support companies.
    Liberal Democrats have some really odd policies and I don't believe they have the strength to be a valid ruling party.
    UKIP/NBP etc - racist, facist bigots that I would rather fight than have these people in power.
    The rest (Pirate party included) - Too small to make a difference.

    At least the Pirate party has a policy that I AM interested in...

    Having said all that, I don't believe that people should have a free reign of music, games and other works of art...Companies will just stop producing...However, I believe that I should be able to copy, transform and move between devices that I own for my or my familys consumption...Soon they will require a purchase for each member of the family that will watch a DVD because in fact you ARE broadcasting to the rest of your family...

    Patents, copyright and trademarking all need an overhaul...If that's what the pirate party are suggesting, or at least make one of the major parties take note, then I will look at voting for them...

    --
    When all is said and done, nothing changes...
    1. Re:Got my vote - maybe by damburger · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So what if companies don't output any more shitty movies, music, and games? Society will not collapse. There will still be content produced, but on a much smaller scale. We don't need content.

      --
      If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
    2. Re:Got my vote - maybe by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If it's pure idiocy why did the parties own founder quit after claiming the party was infiltrated by the far right? Why did the UKIP throw out 11 (!) BNP "infiltrators" in 2004? Why do they require all new recruits to state they aren't racist?

  12. already working in germany by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's already working in germany.

    The piratenpartei there got just approved to be part of national elections, which will take place in about 2 months in 15 states. After the german government had decided on a stupid domain-blocking scheme against (so they say) child porn, the piratenpartei got 0.7% at the european elections a short while ago.

    The Spiegel (an important german weakly) and other media are reporting about the issue and discussion about regulation of the net is starting in the mainstream media and also within the various parties, forcing the parties to develop a clear position on things before election.

    Up until recently the issue was not taken seriously by the german parties and security freaks like Wolfgang Schaeuble were allowed to install more and more legislation to control and observe citizens more closely and broadly (his party is actually using the following slogan in it's election campaign: "we're strong enough for both freedom _and_ security", which is of course bullshit, as we all know (Jefferson anyone)).

    So yes, what the UK Pirate Party is trying to do is very much viable and makes sense. It'll raise awareness of the political cast to a problem unsolved and to the fact that people will not let their freedom be taken away so easily.

  13. Re:A big undertaking by seifried · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You mean like making sure we have an environment where business can innovate and thrive (as opposed to suing each other lots), where culture is owned by society and not business (hint: you can't sing "Happy Birthday" in the UK without paying a license fee). You mean like making sure we have some modicum of privacy in our lives? Yeah, pretty shallow stuff.

  14. Parochial Slashdot banner graphic? by ratbag · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Does "politics" == "American politics" as far as Slashdot is concerned?

    Rob.

  15. Re:The UK already has one dumbass party by Lord+Bitman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The extremes of the pirate party are worth supporting, in the interest of a reasonable compromise.
    Even if I don't agree with 5-year copyright terms, I agree with them a lot more than I do unlimited copyright.

    --
    -- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
  16. Re:Need yes, Succes? by TheLink · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They don't have to win the elections.

    If they get a few million votes and steadily increase share every election, even if they don't win the bigger parties might decide to adjust their policies a bit.

    A lot of people say it's just a two horse race because of the "first past the post" system. Big fucking deal. That doesn't matter as long as you can influence the direction the horses are heading.

    Fact is the big parties have changed over the years, so they can and do change.

    If you keep voting for a party that you don't like, it's effectively saying to them "keep doing whatever you are doing". Why should they change if they keep winning most of the votes?

    If they see their grip loosening, believe me, they'll do something.

    --
  17. Re:Need yes, Succes? by jonbryce · · Score: 4, Insightful

    European elections are proportional representation, not first past the post, and it is Europe where most of the changes need to be made with regards to copyright. Even if the Pirate Party did win the next Westminster election, they couldn't do much about copyright or patent law, because it is set at EU level. They could change encryption and spying laws because they are set at UK level. They would have some influence over the amount of law enforcement resources employed on copyright issues, but it is mostly local council trading standards departments that do that, and they tend to focus on commercial copying.

  18. Re:This is your life, Slashdot! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    I like how this was modded "Redundant" - as in, "Yes, we already know."

  19. Re:This is your life, Slashdot! by TheP4st · · Score: 3, Funny

    And yet you keep on coming back. Say more about you than the rest of us.

    --
    "I have downloaded hundreds and hundreds of records, why would I care if somebody downloads ours?" Robin Pecknold
  20. Re:Need yes, Succes? by daveime · · Score: 4, Funny

    0.003% of the population can't be wrong ...

  21. Re:Need yes, Succes? by jonbryce · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Well the European Parliament did an excellent job of stopping software patents in Europe.

  22. He is now a career politician. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This idiotic hatred of politicians as a class must go.

    There are good politicians and bad politicians, painting them all with the same brush discourages the good ones.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  23. This is nonsense. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Many parties that changed whole countries were started in a bedroom between a few friends and relatives, against the ruling class and their cronies.

    Somebody like you certainly will change nothing, because to affect change the necessary requisite is conviction.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  24. Cardassians! by mrsurb · · Score: 3, Funny

    Can we really trust a political party run by Andrew Robinson, a known Cardassian spy?