Why the UK Needs the Pirate Party

Sounds promising, but... by IBBoard · 2009-08-12 19:56 · Score: 5, Insightful

It sounds promising that we now have a "Pirate Party" in the UK who will stand up on copyright issues, but I suspect they'll take it too far. It makes sense to decrease the legislation that is heavily in favour of the company rather than the consumer (things like making it illegal to make personal backups or making fines for infringement hugely out of proportion) but if they get to complete freedom to pirate everything then they've taken it too far the other way and the economy will falter again.

People need the right to own what they've bought, but people don't need the right to own everything for free that's digital.

Re:Sounds promising, but... by blackraven14250 · 2009-08-12 20:01 · Score: 5, Insightful

Yeah, but the way you get a major party to be moderate on an issue is by having an extreme viewpoint yourself. At least that way the votes get distributed across the spectrum instead of concentrated at one side.
Re:Sounds promising, but... by Thanshin · 2009-08-12 20:05 · Score: 2, Funny

It makes sense to decrease the legislation that is heavily in favour of the company rather than the consumer (things like making it illegal to make personal backups or making fines for infringement hugely out of proportion) but if they get to complete freedom to pirate everything then they've taken it too far the other way and the economy will falter again.
That's why I don't vote the left.
It makes sense to go for a system that takes into account the general population and tries to protect the less favoured, but then they could go for utopic communism, the abolishment to private property and in the next legislature, they may enforce genetic manipulation to make us all identical. And replace names by numbers, so nobody has a better name.
And then, they'd probably forbid the use of the singular in language. We'd have to use plurals for everything.
tl;dr: Don't worry, a couple million votes to the pirate party won't destroy UK's economy.
Re:Sounds promising, but... by BuR4N · 2009-08-12 20:06 · Score: 4, Interesting

Its all about stir things up in a political environment that tends to see things from a 1987 perspective. Times have changed, media industry and politics understanding of it has not (at least not as much as it should have to be in sync with the world we live in).

It have worked quite well here in Sweden, the pirate party have woken up the other parties when polls started to show that they might even get into the Riksdag ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden#Modern_political_system )

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Re:Sounds promising, but... by damburger · 2009-08-12 20:09 · Score: 4, Insightful

They do have that right. Any property 'right' that require doors to be busted down and personal encryption keys to be demanded by threat is not a right at all.

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If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
Re:Sounds promising, but... by noundi · 2009-08-12 20:12 · Score: 5, Insightful

It sounds promising that we now have a "Pirate Party" in the UK who will stand up on copyright issues, but I suspect they'll take it too far. It makes sense to decrease the legislation that is heavily in favour of the company rather than the consumer (things like making it illegal to make personal backups or making fines for infringement hugely out of proportion) but if they get to complete freedom to pirate everything then they've taken it too far the other way and the economy will falter again.
People need the right to own what they've bought, but people don't need the right to own everything for free that's digital.
They're supposed to take it too far. Sweden was one of the first countries (if not the first, I'm not sure) to have a pirate party, nowadays with mandate in the European Parliament. The Swedish PP are very down to earth. They openly admit to not having a thorough agenda based on ideologies, such as the traditional party. However their intentions are not to win any election. Their intentions are to raise these questions, and force other parties to take a stance on them. The same year as the Swedish PP was formed many other parties officially took a stance on filesharing, privacy concerns and copyright/patenting. They are just as important for the societies of the modern world, as RMS is for FOSS. We all think RMS takes things a bit far sometimes, but you have to remember that there are far more "extremists" on the other end, those pushing for rights to more intellectual property and patenting. His function is absolutely necessary in order to land somewhere in the reasonable middle. Where producers and consumers get fair terms. Sadly people tend to think in black and white without realising the difference the pirate parties make without ever stepping a foot inside the parliament.

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I am the lawn!
Re:Sounds promising, but... by Odinlake · 2009-08-12 20:17 · Score: 5, Insightful

Yup, and I think that if the pirate party of Sweden had taken a more moderate (reasonable) standpoint they would have been boring and quickly forgotten. By being outrageous they are now known by near enough everyone and got 7% or something like that (one seat) in the election to the European parliament. No, I think "outrageous" is just the way to go.
And come on - do you really think by giving them your vote you would risk a sudden abolishment of copyright?!
Re:Sounds promising, but... by Joce640k · 2009-08-12 20:38 · Score: 4, Insightful

Would the DMCA have breezed through the congress quite so easily if there were two million votes on the line...?

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No sig today...
Re:Sounds promising, but... by init100 · 2009-08-12 20:53 · Score: 3, Insightful

but I suspect they'll take it too far.
Politics is all about making deals in the middle of two positions. Most copyright proponents are extremists in their position that copyright should last forever, infringement should have harsh penalties, and that government must monitor everyone to ensure compliance. By taking an extreme position in the other direction, the result of political dealing and wrangling is more likely to be the middle road where you really want to be, than if you take that middle road already from the beginning. In the latter case, the end result will be somewhere in the middle between your middle road, and the current copyright maximalists.
Re:Sounds promising, but... by Andy_R · 2009-08-12 21:00 · Score: 4, Informative

There is a balance to be struck between extremism and populism. As party leader (yes, that's me being quoted in the article) I'll have an easier job of convincing sceptical voters and politicians that the current copyright term is too long than convincing them that copyright is unneccesary - and course my own view as a hobby musician is that copyright law is actually a good idea, it's jut the current lobbyist-driven draconian implmentation of it that's the problem. ... and now back to watching the server melt :-)

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Re:Sounds promising, but... by Znork · 2009-08-12 21:25 · Score: 4, Interesting

and the economy will falter again.
Copyright (and other IP forms) are functionally equivalent to a form of taxation. It's transfer of money from one sector of the economy to another, and as such it does not affect the strength of the economy outside its comparative efficiency at generating value for the spent resources.
Perhaps you wish to claim that the copyright industries are extremely efficient at generating value for their consumers, much more than the value the consumer would have gotten from the alternate products he would have bought for those funds, but frankly, most breakdowns of where the money goes indicate otherwise. Which would suggest that copyright damages the wealth generation of an economy as a whole.
And of course, compared to a really optimized system of IP creation without monopoly effects and middleman funding, the economic outcome if utterly atrocious.
Re:Sounds promising, but... by jhhdk · 2009-08-12 21:49 · Score: 5, Interesting

Sweedish pirate party is not unreasonable or extremist. They will abolish patents completely and make private filesharing legal, but they will maintain a 5 year copyright term for commercial usage. Seems reasonable enough to me.
Re:Sounds promising, but... by Yvanhoe · 2009-08-12 21:51 · Score: 2, Interesting

This is the kind of party that exists just to disappear. Like ecological parties were. They need extreme positions. People will vote for them as long as they don't risk being elected. Once they reach 5 millions of voters, other parties will integrate the ideas of these parties into their programs and the pirate party will be able to successfully dissolve.

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The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
Re:Sounds promising, but... by Husgaard · 2009-08-12 21:53 · Score: 4, Informative

And come on - do you really think by giving them your vote you would risk a sudden abolishment of copyright?!
Hardly, since the Pirate Party does not want copyright abolished, but reformed.
We want patents abolished, though.
Re:Sounds promising, but... by Ren.Tamek · 2009-08-12 22:03 · Score: 2, Insightful

I suspect they'll take it too far. It makes sense to decrease the legislation that is heavily in favour of the company rather than the consumer ... but if they get to complete freedom to pirate everything then they've taken it too far the other way and the economy will falter again.
God, I hate slashdot sometimes. Why don't you just read the summary and click on the links if you don't know?! It took me 2 minutes to read the front page of both sites! What's worse, 5 people who also didn't read the fucking article modded you +5! It's just aggravating.
I will go ahead and quote the exact links in the summary, since the chance of anyone reading it themselves is slim to none.
From the pcpro Q&A:

There should be an exemption for non-commercial use in copyright. We're not in favour of abolishing copyright, or artists getting nothing. When things are copied and somebody makes a profit, that profit should go to the artist. When something's copied and there isn't a profit... well, that's a situation our law doesn't really have any way of dealing with at the moment, which is why people who copy a movie are lumped in with people who steal cars.
From the pirateparty.org.uk home page:

We want to legalise non-commercial file sharing and reduce the excessive length of copyright protection, while ensuring that when creative works are sold, it's the artists who benefit, not monopoly rights holders.
Their position is really very clear and consistant, and is exactly the same as the Swedish party and the other spin-off parties worldwide. So now you know, RTFA and prosper.

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"If you want a vision of the future, Winston, imagine a boot stamping on a human face forever." - George Orwell, 1984
Re:Sounds promising, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-08-12 22:15 · Score: 2, Insightful

I certainly hope not - the GPL uses copyright to protect your freedoms!
Re:Sounds promising, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-08-12 22:19 · Score: 2, Insightful

Yes, unfortunately due to the first past the post system here in the UK I don't see them having any luck.
What will happen, is in the areas they have constituents, all the teens etc. will vote pirate party because they actually care about a particular political issue (i.e. the fact no current British political party understands the digital age and those who are part of it). Their votes however will be outnumbered by a bunch of older folk who will vote Labour because their dad told them to after Thatcher kicked their poodle in the 70s, or vote Tory because bad Labour wont let them take a bunch of dogs to rip foxes to pieces.
The problem in the UK is that because of first past the post, where over 19 million votes were wasted votes due to safe seats at the last election no one actually votes based on the issues, they only have a choice to either throw away their vote as 19 million voters did in 2005 or like the rest of the population vote in football team style politics where they vote a specific party just cos they always have and just cos their dad always did.
We don't have a political system that supports voting based on political merit. Votes across the political spectrum don't matter in our country, Labour won the last election with 35% of the popular vote, yet maintain 100% of the power due to having a majority in the house. Couple this with the whip system and you don't even have constituents views represented. In fact, the only view that gets pushed in the British political system for most issues is that of the cabinet of whichever party just about managed to get the biggest minority of votes.
Re:Sounds promising, but... by CarpetShark · 2009-08-12 22:30 · Score: 3, Interesting

Yeah, but the way you get a major party to be moderate on an issue is by having an extreme viewpoint yourself.
Yes. Much like the way to get proprietary vendors to support open platforms and protocols is to launch a Free Software organisation, build an OS, popularise a Free license, etc. To some, it's extreme. To others, it's just the extreme balance to an extreme position taken by others.
Re:Sounds promising, but... by Andy_R · 2009-08-12 22:37 · Score: 5, Informative

As party leader, I can promise you that our policies are not more extreme than publically stated, we are well aware that there needs to be balance in copyright law, and that artists need to be financially rewarded when their work is sold... of course even though I've only been a politician for a couple of days you might not trust me, so I'd invite you to head over to our forum and actually take part in our decision making processes. You will of course see views expressed that are both harder and softer than the party's official line, but I hope you'll also see that we are a rational, balanced group of people.

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A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
Re:Sounds promising, but... by Kjella · 2009-08-12 22:47 · Score: 2, Informative

Not the commercial copyright, but all non-commercial use is to be made legal from day one. That's pretty close to abolishing copyright for the masses, with the exception of a few moral rights. It'd make 99% of all file sharing legal, except those sharing really nasty stuff covered by other laws.
The reason for keeping some commercial copyright is simple - if you make money, the original author/artist/whatever should make money. Otherwise for example cinemas could earn money showing movies without paying those that made it anything. As reforms go, it's as big as they come.

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Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Re:Sounds promising, but... by jez9999 · 2009-08-12 22:47 · Score: 3, Informative

... and we're considering policy to protect FOSS because of that. We're aware of RMS's letter on it.

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== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
Re:Sounds promising, but... by Husgaard · 2009-08-12 23:37 · Score: 4, Insightful

You have a good point when you say that allowing all non-commercial use of copyrighted works is almost the same as abandoning copyright for the masses. And this is what the Pirate Party wants.
If we do not allow non-commercial use, somebody has to check all private communication to check if copyrighted works are infringed. Would you like some government entity to eavesdrop your private communication with your local journalist, lawyer, doctor, priest, or secret lover? We pirates think that a society where private communication is impossible cannot stay democratic in the long run.
The alternative - no monitoring of private communication - is almost as bad. This way people can break the law with no risk. Many people have a strong incentive to break the law here: Free access to cultural content. But if a majority of the citizens regularly break the law, they also loose respect for the law. Lack of respect for the law is extremely dangerous for our society, as it is based on people respecting the law.
In many countries there are equivalents to "fair use", allowing non-commercial use of copyrighted works. But these exceptions in copyright law are under attack and almost every adjustment of copyright law these days seem to remove some of the rights to non-commercial use we citizens have.
For example: In my country before 1995 I could legally mail a copyrighted mp3 to a journalist. Today this is illegal. I do not want our government (or anybody else for that matter) to monitor my private communication with journalists. If such communication is monitored, the principle of source confidentiality of journalists would be broken, and nobody would dare to tip journalists about for example government abuse.
Re:Sounds promising, but... by mdwh2 · 2009-08-13 01:19 · Score: 2

Seeing as you are a fan of extremes, consider it being like repealing laws on murder.
I've nothing against extremes (being "moderate" doesn't make something better - see fallacy of argument to moderation). But I'm not a fan of bad analogies.
Perhaps you could compare it to a car?
I'm sure that the people with these views considered these issues, and aren't simply arguing for "maximum freedom for me at the expense of everyone else", as your murder straw man example suggests.
If you really believe the way copyright violators are punished is stupid, you should be campaigning for votes amongst copyright holders.
Eh? Parties should only care about copyright holders? Isn't that the problem at the moment, where the RIAA, Disney etc lobby for laws?
And if you could persuade Disney to release the first Mickey Mouse under a free licence, then there'd be no need for a political party in the first place.

Re:Need yes, Succes? by blackraven14250 · 2009-08-12 20:00 · Score: 3, Insightful

If you don't work towards change, you may as well accelerate the speed with which you go into a nasty future

ïI might vote for them, but it is futile by damburger · 2009-08-12 20:03 · Score: 4, Insightful

The UK political scene is completely stagnant, and will remain so regardless of any new political parties. Having taken public choice theory as license to be as corrupt as they like, politicians have given up any pretense of public service and now do what they are told for money. Simple as that. Because this same money controls the public discourse through the media, nobody who doesn't play this game has a chance.

The system is set up to resist any change to the social order. Class mobility has collapsed, wages are down and unemployment is up. Life is increasingly wretched for the poorest whilst being increasingly comfortable for millionaires in the City. Minor political parties are not going to change any of this.

Change will not come to the UK through elections, protests or revolutions. It will come through stagnation and then collapse

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If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?

Re:ïI might vote for them, but it is futile by Thanshin · 2009-08-12 20:12 · Score: 2, Insightful

Change will not come to the UK through elections, protests or revolutions. It will come through stagnation and then collapse
What kind of poison did you think the glass was half empty of?
Re:ïI might vote for them, but it is futile by Goffee71 · 2009-08-12 20:23 · Score: 2, Informative

God bless them for trying though, I seem to recall it was the younger voters that helped sweep TB to power. However, in the next election I guess all the pensionless pensioners will be out with their voting knives so the younger vote won't mean as much. Bad timing - although as we're clutching at straws if you get Stephen Fry, Bill Thompson and the other greying-techno leaders talking about it (regardless of their actual support position) the party might just creep into the national conciousness.

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If he's the Walrus then can I be a penguin please?
Re:ïI might vote for them, but it is futile by damburger · 2009-08-12 20:24 · Score: 4, Insightful

I do not own a TV station or a newspaper, so no matter how I express myself, I simply cannot reach enough people. Its a waste of my energys to engage in something so futile.

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If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
Re:ïI might vote for them, but it is futile by damburger · 2009-08-12 20:47 · Score: 2, Funny

You read that and placed me as a daily mail reader? What the fuck?

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If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
Re:ïI might vote for them, but it is futile by Andy_R · 2009-08-12 21:13 · Score: 2, Interesting

There is another method for change. The major parties instinctively chase votes, so it's possible to get them to alter course by showing them that there are votes to be gained by changing what are (to them) a few minor policies in obscure areas. You didn't really think their focus on environmental issues would have happened naturally without the spectre of a successful green party in the wings do you?
I think the 'endgame' for the Pirate Party UK will be to see the reforms we want enacted not because we stand a chance of winning, but because the party in power is willing to pass them in order to make us go away, which is one very good reason for us having a small manifesto that concentrates on a few areas that are important to us.

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A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
Re:ïI might vote for them, but it is futile by damburger · 2009-08-12 21:32 · Score: 2, Interesting

(Firstly, this post was direct at me and I don't consider it flambait, so I can't see why moderators do)
No, I don't write to my MP, because unless the envelope is stuffed full of Â£50 notes they will ignore me (or, at the very most, send me a letter full of promises and platitudes so they don't lose my vote, and then ignore me)
I am registered to vote, but I consider it largely a futile ritual. My vote has never had any chance of changing the balance of power because I've always lived in safe seats.
no2id is a worthy cause but a hopeless one. The interests which run government require that government exercise control and therefore no2id is running up against money and will fail.
I don't know where you get the idea I'm a Mail reader from. Completely the opposite in fact.

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If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
Re:ïI might vote for them, but it is futile by backwardMechanic · 2009-08-12 22:18 · Score: 2, Funny

Stagnation is perfect. If there were some big political issues being played out (something like the poll tax, privatisation of the railway, etc), the Pirate Party would have no hope. But I can't really see the difference between the major parties, and really can't find anyone I actually want to vote for. So, rather than striking my vote, I'll vote Pirate Party. If enough of us do, it'll make a point and maybe we'll see some reform on copyright and patents. It's a long shot. I don't expect the country to be run by the Pirate Party (although I'd love to hear the Queen's speech, the Royal Family have a long history of supporting pirates!), but I don't think I'm losing anything by not voting for a major party.
Re:ïI might vote for them, but it is futile by EdgeyEdgey · 2009-08-12 22:54 · Score: 4, Insightful

Try chaining yourself to some railings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffragette

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Arr! by mach1980 · 2009-08-12 20:03 · Score: 5, Funny

First things first. Top priority for the pirate party should be to make speak-like-a-pirate-day a national holiday.

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Break the sound barrier - bring the noise.

So, about that DMCA... by Hordeking · 2009-08-12 20:05 · Score: 5, Informative

This is great. When do we get one of these in the US?

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Disclaimer: The opinions and actions of the US Gov't are in no way representative of those held by this author or its ci

Re:So, about that DMCA... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-08-12 20:30 · Score: 3, Informative

http://www.pirate-party.us

Raising awareness works - example Germany by Fusselwurm · 2009-08-12 20:10 · Score: 5, Informative

from TFA:

'What we really want to do is raise awareness, so that the other parties say 'bloody hell, they've got seven million votes this time out', or one million votes, or enough votes to make them care and seriously think about these issues.'"

In Germany, a recent poll showed a 2% support rate for the pirate party (Piratenpartei).

And lo and behold! Suddenly, politicians of other parties are discovering their love for the pirates' topics...

(links in German, and I'm too much a of a lazy ass to translate)

Re:Raising awareness works - example Germany by Andy_R · 2009-08-12 20:39 · Score: 2, Informative

It's worth pointing our that I mentioned 'seven million votes' in the context of government figures showing that there are seven million filesharers in the UK, it does make me seem wildly optimistic if it's taken out of context.

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A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a

Re:The UK already has one dumbass party by twoshortplanks · 2009-08-12 20:11 · Score: 5, Insightful

Actually, the Pirate Party, putting all issues about copyright infringement aside, has one proper issue that I think is interesting. It's to do with encryption and privacy.

The concern is about how much the media owners and government have the "right" to monitor what you're doing. If you stipulate that the government should prevent copyright infridgement, it's not a big leap to say that they should monitor people to check that they're not breaking the law and punish those that do. Which is fine, until you realise that you've just said that the government should monitor all your communications, and the public shouldn't have the right to have private communications that the Powers In Charge don't read.

Now, I'm not overly worried about this in the UK right now with our current government (who, let's face it, are under the thumb of the press and more likely to try and waste taxpayers money to clean their private moats than oppress the masses), but if history has shown us anything preventing citizens from being able to privately critique government bodies without those bodies being able to read all the criticisms is not a good thing... I'm not really sure where the line between upholding the law and curtailing the citizen is drawn - and it's not just on this issue that it's worth thinking about, but it is, at least, worth thinking about. So I welcome the discussion.

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-- Sorry, I can't think of anything funny to say here.

Re:A big undertaking by arethuza · 2009-08-12 20:11 · Score: 4, Insightful

You mean like the "make us and our friends rich" basis for the other two parties in the UK?

Mod parent up by Joce640k · 2009-08-12 20:16 · Score: 4, Insightful

Very few people want "no copyright" but an awful lot of them want "less government"

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No sig today...

Re:Mod parent up by Aeternitas827 · 2009-08-12 20:32 · Score: 3, Interesting

Very few people want "no copyright" but an awful lot of them want "less government"
Well said; we're getting to a point that 'piracy' is an inevitability...music, video, etc, is GOING to be shared, and the way interpretation of copyright law is going these days, any victory for the Industries gets one step closer to extreme government oversight and penalisation for things that, ultimately, end up being relatively minor. Copyright laws, as originally written and intended, were to prevent someone from taking the printed words or phonographed music of one person, and claiming it as their own, to make it a profit. It's been bastardized to excess now, though, and even though we've seen suit after complaint after appeal after suit on the whole subject, not a thing with copyright law or dealings related to infringement has seemingly changed EXCEPT to favour the Industries with increased prying by the lawyers with Government OK's in doing so.

In the end, it's a hopeless endeavor, make token efforts to put in limitations on physical media, and when they get cracked, take some solace in the fact that records are still being sold (or downloaded from iTunes), and that people will still flock to a movie theatre (probably for the popcorn)..

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Futile! by Frans+Faase · 2009-08-12 20:20 · Score: 4, Insightful

The UK has a two party system, just like the USA. For this reason, new parties, almost make no chance to get any political power. This is due to the district system, in which it is not true that all votes are equal. Because you need to gain majority in a sector to get someone in the parlement. People are not inclined to vote on a small party if it is almost sure that they will not get any significant representation in the parlement.

If such a party would be established here in the Netherlands, it might make a better chance of getting at least a few representatives in the parlement because we do not have a district system and each vote has the same weight.

Maybe the should also include the abolishment of the district system as a part of their program.

Re:Futile! by Tom · 2009-08-12 20:31 · Score: 4, Insightful

They can still make a difference, especially in a 2-party system.
Yes, the two major parties will not fear losing to them. But they might fear losing enough votes to the pirates so that the other major party prevails. Once the pirate party gets a considerable number of voters, the other parties will take up their ideas, in order to win back those voters.

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Got my vote - maybe by Karem+Lore · 2009-08-12 20:20 · Score: 4, Insightful

All the other parties are useless anyway:

Labour (Sorry, New Labour) is just a conservative in sheeps clothing, spend too much on public services that then go cut those services...ABC Bin collection in point, my bin is emptied every 2 weeks...My babies nappies and the flies are horrendous
Conservative are just out to enrich their own pockets (well, so are labour TBH) and make rich people richer and support companies.
Liberal Democrats have some really odd policies and I don't believe they have the strength to be a valid ruling party.
UKIP/NBP etc - racist, facist bigots that I would rather fight than have these people in power.
The rest (Pirate party included) - Too small to make a difference.

At least the Pirate party has a policy that I AM interested in...

Having said all that, I don't believe that people should have a free reign of music, games and other works of art...Companies will just stop producing...However, I believe that I should be able to copy, transform and move between devices that I own for my or my familys consumption...Soon they will require a purchase for each member of the family that will watch a DVD because in fact you ARE broadcasting to the rest of your family...

Patents, copyright and trademarking all need an overhaul...If that's what the pirate party are suggesting, or at least make one of the major parties take note, then I will look at voting for them...

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When all is said and done, nothing changes...

Re:Got my vote - maybe by jez9999 · 2009-08-12 20:43 · Score: 2, Insightful

UKIP are not racists and to say so is pure idiocy. Please go and educate yourself on them first, instead of listening to the UK mainstream media's bullshit.

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== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
Re:Got my vote - maybe by damburger · 2009-08-12 21:00 · Score: 3, Insightful

So what if companies don't output any more shitty movies, music, and games? Society will not collapse. There will still be content produced, but on a much smaller scale. We don't need content.

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If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
Re:Got my vote - maybe by IamTheRealMike · 2009-08-13 01:10 · Score: 3, Insightful

If it's pure idiocy why did the parties own founder quit after claiming the party was infiltrated by the far right? Why did the UKIP throw out 11 (!) BNP "infiltrators" in 2004? Why do they require all new recruits to state they aren't racist?

already working in germany by Anonymous Coward · 2009-08-12 20:22 · Score: 4, Informative

It's already working in germany.

The piratenpartei there got just approved to be part of national elections, which will take place in about 2 months in 15 states. After the german government had decided on a stupid domain-blocking scheme against (so they say) child porn, the piratenpartei got 0.7% at the european elections a short while ago.

The Spiegel (an important german weakly) and other media are reporting about the issue and discussion about regulation of the net is starting in the mainstream media and also within the various parties, forcing the parties to develop a clear position on things before election.

Up until recently the issue was not taken seriously by the german parties and security freaks like Wolfgang Schaeuble were allowed to install more and more legislation to control and observe citizens more closely and broadly (his party is actually using the following slogan in it's election campaign: "we're strong enough for both freedom _and_ security", which is of course bullshit, as we all know (Jefferson anyone)).

So yes, what the UK Pirate Party is trying to do is very much viable and makes sense. It'll raise awareness of the political cast to a problem unsolved and to the fact that people will not let their freedom be taken away so easily.

Re:I might vote for them, but it is futile by damburger · 2009-08-12 20:25 · Score: 2, Funny

Indeed. The City still hasn't figured out you can't generate electricity with smugness.

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If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?

Re:A big undertaking by seifried · 2009-08-12 20:25 · Score: 3, Insightful

You mean like making sure we have an environment where business can innovate and thrive (as opposed to suing each other lots), where culture is owned by society and not business (hint: you can't sing "Happy Birthday" in the UK without paying a license fee). You mean like making sure we have some modicum of privacy in our lives? Yeah, pretty shallow stuff.

Parochial Slashdot banner graphic? by ratbag · 2009-08-12 20:35 · Score: 3, Insightful

Does "politics" == "American politics" as far as Slashdot is concerned?

Rob.

Re:The UK already has one dumbass party by Lord+Bitman · 2009-08-12 20:43 · Score: 3, Insightful

The extremes of the pirate party are worth supporting, in the interest of a reasonable compromise.
Even if I don't agree with 5-year copyright terms, I agree with them a lot more than I do unlimited copyright.

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-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All

Re:The UK already has one dumbass party by damburger · 2009-08-12 20:54 · Score: 2, Insightful

This would be the conservative party that used soldiers dressed up as policemen to crush the miners strike? The same one that abolished the right to silence? Don't believe the hype.

--
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?

Re:Need yes, Succes? by TheLink · 2009-08-12 21:13 · Score: 5, Interesting

They don't have to win the elections.

If they get a few million votes and steadily increase share every election, even if they don't win the bigger parties might decide to adjust their policies a bit.

A lot of people say it's just a two horse race because of the "first past the post" system. Big fucking deal. That doesn't matter as long as you can influence the direction the horses are heading.

Fact is the big parties have changed over the years, so they can and do change.

If you keep voting for a party that you don't like, it's effectively saying to them "keep doing whatever you are doing". Why should they change if they keep winning most of the votes?

If they see their grip loosening, believe me, they'll do something.

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Too many replies beneath your current threshold

Re:Need yes, Succes? by jonbryce · 2009-08-12 21:22 · Score: 4, Insightful

European elections are proportional representation, not first past the post, and it is Europe where most of the changes need to be made with regards to copyright. Even if the Pirate Party did win the next Westminster election, they couldn't do much about copyright or patent law, because it is set at EU level. They could change encryption and spying laws because they are set at UK level. They would have some influence over the amount of law enforcement resources employed on copyright issues, but it is mostly local council trading standards departments that do that, and they tend to focus on commercial copying.

SNP are in charge in Scotland.... by fantomas · 2009-08-12 21:28 · Score: 2, Interesting

Agreed that most of the power in *England* is in a two party system but in Scotland and Wales the devolved system means that other parties get a good shout, and have some power as a result. The SNP runs the Scottish parliament for example. There are signficant local difference between English and Scottish legal situations and the SNP / Labour divide on political issues means that people in England and Scotland can be in quite different situations (e.g. healthcare).

Re:Single Issue Parties Get Nowhere by KanjiMonster · 2009-08-12 21:28 · Score: 2, Interesting

It sounds like the bunch are yet another single issue party. Single issue parties get nowhere.

Actually that's not quite true. While many single issue parties vanish as fast as they came, the greens here in Germany started as a single issue party, and now get over 10% in elections. OTOH, they aren't a single issue party anymore.
But I believe it will be the same with the pirate party. Limiting themself to their "core competencies" at first, then with gaining experts for other areas slowly expanding to these areas.

Daft plonkers by Rogerborg · 2009-08-12 21:29 · Score: 2, Insightful

They'll just steal votes from the Liberal Democrat party, which is (shock!) actually both pro Liberty and pro Democracy. It's also not a major threat at the national level to the two sock puppets of right wing corporate interests ("Labour" and "Conservative"), and having its vote watered down even further will just empower both of them to get on with making everything either mandatory or prohibited.

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If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.

Re:The UK already has one dumbass party by twoshortplanks · 2009-08-12 21:38 · Score: 2, Insightful

I'm only casual because I see a tendency for hyperbole on slashdot, whereby people jump straight to extremes, comparing anything to a much more extreme regime (typically, Hitler's Germany, China or North Korea). This, while causing the sensation a sensational comment it meant to provoke, doesn't actually leave much room for reasoned discussion. This is not to say I've not been deeply concerned by actions of our government and I'm casual to the real dangers if left to linger, and the danger of not keeping a watchful eye on the watchers.

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-- Sorry, I can't think of anything funny to say here.

Re:A big undertaking by holloway · 2009-08-12 21:52 · Score: 2, Informative

As a 'public performance' just means singing Happy Birthday to your friends in public...

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-Docvert converts MSWord to OpenDocument, clean HTML

Re:This is your life, Slashdot! by Anonymous Coward · 2009-08-12 21:57 · Score: 3, Funny

I like how this was modded "Redundant" - as in, "Yes, we already know."

Re:This is your life, Slashdot! by TheP4st · 2009-08-12 21:57 · Score: 3, Funny

And yet you keep on coming back. Say more about you than the rest of us.

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"I have downloaded hundreds and hundreds of records, why would I care if somebody downloads ours?" Robin Pecknold

Re:Need yes, Succes? by CarpetShark · 2009-08-12 22:26 · Score: 2, Interesting

Yes, but the question is how to work for change. Sometimes non-participation is better than implicitly consenting to be part of a system.

Not that I'm advocating it here. I normally would have said that a pirate party has no chance of making a dent, but it's working in sweden/europe, and many interested people in the UK know that. The UKPP already has a 1000+ followers on facebook alone. Looks like a good start.

Re:Need yes, Succes? by daveime · 2009-08-12 22:32 · Score: 4, Funny

0.003% of the population can't be wrong ...

Re:Need yes, Succes? by silanea · 2009-08-12 22:45 · Score: 2, Insightful

[...] Even if the Pirate Party did win the next Westminster election, they couldn't do much about copyright or patent law, because it is set at EU level. [...]

I would like to dispute that. Seeing how EU regulations in the past have been drafted and negotiated in closed circles comprised of national representatives, lobbyists and general morons, and combining that with the EP's rather limited ability to interfere with said process I am willing to bet that any member state has more leverage to get their will than parliament.

--
Rudolf Hess edited Mein Kampf. He was the very first grammar nazi.

Re:Need yes, Succes? by jonbryce · 2009-08-12 23:05 · Score: 3, Insightful

Well the European Parliament did an excellent job of stopping software patents in Europe.

Isn't that an empirical question? by jonaskoelker · 2009-08-12 23:31 · Score: 2, Insightful

People need the right to own what they've bought, but people don't need the right to own everything for free that's digital.

I think "need" is probably the wrong word---I think this is about what people want combined with what's economically feasible. But the choice of words is the least concern.

People want culture (music, film, literature), preferably well-made items of culture. They also want things to be cheap (preferably free). And they also want to obey the law. Those who make culture want to make money doing so (preferably more than less, but some are content with no money).

How they value each of those in relation to one another varies from person to person. Some prefer stuff with expensive (and maybe even good :D) production for free over obeying the law. Some prefer stuff that's free and obeying the law over expensive production. Some prefer expensive production and obeying the law over stuff that's free.

If a change to the copyright law, any change (including allowing redistribution for private purposes, or complete abolishment) gives the people as a whole something more valuable than what the current regime does, why shouldn't we make that change?

Your statement leaves me to conclude that you think allowing free redistribution of copyrighted stuff doesn't give people what they want (presumably due to the removed profit incentive on the producer side of the equation). Why do you think this?

I think it's an empirical question what the effect of changing copyright law would be. Would people stop making music? Probably not, but the amount and quality would probably decline. How about movies? They're much more expensive, so maybe we'd only have short films by film students posted on youtube. How happy or unhappy would people be about this? I think that's something we should measure (or at least approximate) rather than guesstimate.

Do you agree? If not, why not?

Re:Need yes, Succes? by Vanders · 2009-08-12 23:40 · Score: 2, Insightful

it is Europe where most of the changes need to be made with regards to copyright

Yes, and it's worth pointing out that the Swedish Pirate Party already have on MEP, and a second "pending" (Pending ratification of Lisbon, that is). So it would appear that Pirate Parties in the EU are going to be capable of getting elected representatives into places where they matter.

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Syllable : It's an Operating System

Re:grow the fuck up by rotide · 2009-08-13 00:37 · Score: 2, Insightful

I can't tell how much you're joking versus actually being serious, but I'll bite.

The Pirate Party isn't going out to _win_ elections. They aren't going out to be a major force and overthrow anyone or anything. The whole point of the Party is to show the other candidates another set of opinions and viewpoints. They are going out to show them that Copyright reform is something worth talking about. That all the laws that have been enacted to thwart copyright infringement matter to the people.

So what is in the name? To me, Pirate Party does almost sound self defeating. But what does the general population know and understand? If they were the "Copyright Reform Party" would the average citizen really know what that means? Heck, I know people that still think copyrights are only the things that stop you from photocopying books and using slogans from major corporations ads. When they think of how it applies to music/movies/games/digital anything they think of the word Pirate, not Copyright. You also have to figure that when the Pirate Party makes news of some sort, the name alone will make people ask questions. It is intriguing at the very least and may cause people to read up on it and find out what it is about.

Also, with Pirate having a negative connotation associated with it, if enough votes go _to_ the "Pirates" the powers that be (or are trying to be) will realize that hell, maybe there really are enough people out there that don't agree with the laws and maybe I should do something about that.

So in short, the Pirate Party isn't trying to win the election, they are just trying to mold the people who will win into something more rational (at least in their view). Part of making big enough waves to make a difference is to have a provocative name that makes people ask questions and learn something new. Otherwise, if they didn't cause people to at least ask questions, what could they ever hope to accomplish?

He is now a career politician. by jotaeleemeese · 2009-08-13 00:41 · Score: 3, Insightful

This idiotic hatred of politicians as a class must go.

There are good politicians and bad politicians, painting them all with the same brush discourages the good ones.

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IANAL but write like a drunk one.

This is nonsense. by jotaeleemeese · 2009-08-13 00:47 · Score: 3, Insightful

Many parties that changed whole countries were started in a bedroom between a few friends and relatives, against the ruling class and their cronies.

Somebody like you certainly will change nothing, because to affect change the necessary requisite is conviction.

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IANAL but write like a drunk one.

Canada - http://www.pirateparty.ca/ by Deliveranc3 · 2009-08-13 01:04 · Score: 2, Informative

Canada's pirate party is just starting up. The second monthly meeting is set to take place on the 19th in different venues across the country. I've been reading the above comments and it seems there is scepticism that the political climate in Sweden and the U.K. is such that a third party doesn't really stand a chance. I think in Canada it may, Canada has a cross section of world cultures... with increased freedom of information we might produce results interesting to the world.

Now for my personal vendetta :)
The Slashcode moderation system has created an enormously powerful and democratic forum for debate. While we have several issues to address one that's of interest is having a decentralized party where open debate is the norm and direct democracy the result.

To this end a modified version of Slashcode is being developed for the public forum.

If you decide to attend the meetings I'd appreciate it if you'd voice support for such a system, I think the idea of information freedom makes the notion of cabinets and party leaders slightly hypocritical, plus we don't need those things to get our message out.

Personally I am optimistic about the overall benefits of a small region where copyright and patents are abolished, this region would create integrated ideas that would be the wonder of the world demonstrating what mankind has accomplished. Black Government research projects probably already work this way, but it would be nice if we got some results for civilian use.

Cardassians! by mrsurb · 2009-08-13 01:30 · Score: 3, Funny

Can we really trust a political party run by Andrew Robinson, a known Cardassian spy?

Re:I might vote for them, but it is futile by just+fiddling+around · 2009-08-13 01:46 · Score: 2, Insightful

I agree that the current social system(s) need to collapse to enable real reform. My counterpoint is that elections can BE the collapsing point. Revolutions certainly are, and civil war more so.

So, a new party that the people chooses because it will make "the change" happen, if voted strongly enough, can mark the collapse of an old social order, without bloody insurrection. 20th century example: the "Quiet Revolution" in the province of Quebec(Canada) provoked enormous changes in social and economic ordrer (including the nationalization of all electric power companies) and all started with the ouster of the established political party.

Money currently supports power, but if the gap between haves and have-nots widens too much, it loses any power it has. We have a saying here: "nothing is more dangerous than a man with nothing to lose".

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You're not old until regret takes the place of your dreams.

Special Interest Party by jandersen · 2009-08-13 03:35 · Score: 2, Insightful

This party is, as far as I can see, yet another special interest party. They seem to pop up every now and again, and then they die out because they don't really have a policy about other things. That is why we still, after so many years of democracy, only have a small handful of political parties; there are only so many clearly defined, general ideologies out there - in fact, it is hard to really imagine more than two, isn't it?

So what is this Pirate Party about? Well, freedom of speech - or Freedom of Speech, but it doesn't really become any more general by capitalising the letters. What has Freedom of Speech to say about the financial crisis, unemployment, EU and the military budget? You have be more than a one-trick-pony to tackle real life; it is amazing just how irrelevant the right to make a copy of a DVD is, when you look at the big picture - just about anything is more important.

The importance of Freedom of Speech was perhaps a bit clearer at a time when you could be hanged for treason if you turned your stamp upside-down on a letter, or later, when you could go to prison for organising a strike against the horrenduous working conditions during the industrial revolution, or for talking about voting rights for women. I think talking about big, fundamental human rights, when it really is about nothing more than wanting to distribute copied games and CDs, serves only to devaluate the important of the fundamental rights.

Forward Thinkers can Still Miss the Obvious by X!0mbarg · 2009-08-13 11:08 · Score: 2, Interesting

Something they might want to include in their plans: What if They WIN an election?

As shown by the NDP Party once in the province of Ontario, when the much touted and over-confident Liberals called an election, the NDP was caught flat-footed by their victory, and had to scramble a great deal to actually fill the position of the Governing Body!

Sobering idea, isn't it? To find the regular, 'shoe-in' parties so unpopular that the Protest Vote party actually gets in... It's not unheard of!

Not that it should take entirely too much planing on their part. Even if the plan is to hold the office for a token period, then call a fresh election, it's worth the effort.

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