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On Transitioning To an Asian-Style MMO, Such As Aion

A. Harvey writes "Ten Ton Hammer has an interesting article about the transition to Asian-style MMO games, specifically Aion. 'In many ways, the West is catching up to the East in terms of gaming. Per capita gaming ... and broadband proliferation is markedly higher in Asian markets. Gaming is much more social in the East as well; many players gather together in internet cafes to spend their game time with each other. Another surprising difference in most Asian-based games is that most functions of game control are mouse based.' I think the author hit the nail on the head that Aion will be a big success in North America and will introduce a lot of players to games with an Eastern feel."

59 of 256 comments (clear)

  1. sweat shops by timmarhy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    i'm sure sweat shops are very social - all day farming gold leaves time to talk.

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    1. Re:sweat shops by Runaway1956 · · Score: 4, Informative

      To better answer your question - online games are "gamed" for in-game currency, which is converted into real life currency, by one means or another. There are companies in poor countries that employ dozens or hundreds of people to farm MMO's for ingame currency, to be sold on the black market to wealthy gamers. It is a lucrative business for them, considering that most come from poor countries, and they can pay people a bowl of rice of two for a day's work in front of the computer.

      The same guy might be logged into 4, 6, or more online games, and he has a quota of gold, or whatever, to harvest before his shift is over. He never gets to adventure, or explore - he performs rote actions, with the purpose of increasing his bank.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    2. Re:sweat shops by lxs · · Score: 3, Funny

      he performs rote actions, with the purpose of increasing his bank.

      Boy that was just like my year of playing WoW. You mean I could get paid for that?

    3. Re:sweat shops by Jurily · · Score: 2, Insightful

      To better answer your question - online games are "gamed" for in-game currency, which is converted into real life currency, by one means or another.

      All I can say to that is: demand and supply. In a game where not every raptor drops a raptor head for a quest, what did you expect?

      WoW is specifically designed to rob people of their time with all the farming required. The very existence of the term "farming" is telling, too. Now, if some people decide their time is worth more than $5, who are we to judge if they outsource the boring parts?

      I think this should be a feature of the game, not a form of cheating. That way they could put a cap on it, while remaining the only ones who make money on their game, and also keeping some of the notion of every player being equal.

    4. Re:sweat shops by blackraven14250 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If by "paid" you mean around $3 a day, for a 12 hour shift.

  2. Asian style gaming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...who will be hungry again in an hour.

    1. Re:Asian style gaming by elrous0 · · Score: 2, Funny

      ...and as you catch your reflection in your ridiculously oversized sword, you see that you look like a hermaphrodite with really silly hair.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  3. Aion will Flop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Aion will go the way of every other non-WoW MMO, because it can't compete with the dumptruckloads of development money and years of lead time that game has had. It is just a poor copy of The One MMO that yet again tries to outdo it with the graphics, while the developers continue to ignore the fact that part of WoW's mass market appeal is that it will run on any piece-of-crap computer with some sort of 3D accelerator in it.

    Aion will have a couple hundred thousand subscribers if it's lucky, and those will churn out in a few months, the numbers will stabilize somewhere around 80K, and NCsoft will still be scratching their heads wondering why they can't publish a GOOD MMO.

    Age of Conan had BOOBIES and awesome graphics and some new game mechanics, but it was poorly balanced and the highly polished tutorial was just a facade. Once you went to the mainland the game got dull and boring with a quickness. Plus, low-level male characters looked like gay pirates and the sexiest female clothes you'd see were the ones a character started with. And Age of Conan flopped.

    Warhammer Online was accessible, with graphics comparable to WoW's; it had fun gameplay comparable to some of WoW's more recent additions, and it still flopped. Why? Because it was TOO MUCH of a WoW clone on the surface, and many of its systems were not polished or balanced and relied too much on social interactions where "alone together" is king.

    For what it's worth, I think Bioware's KOTOR Online thing will have huge box sales and big initial numbers, and it will be a great Bioware RPG, but static content does not make for MMO subscriber retention. They'll have huge initial numbers and huge churn. But they at least have a little bit of a chance, if only because it's not more cookie-cutter mythical fantasy; It's STAR WARS.

    The MMOs that are succeeding these days are not MMORPGs. They are MMO-strategy like lighter-fare Web/social network games. To make a new MMORPG be massively successful, it's going to take a re-invention of the genre. EVE Online has carved out a nice niche for itself and is clearly a shining star. The current MMORPG monoculture sucks and it's time for more experimental and different kinds of MMO games.

    1. Re:Aion will Flop by blackraven14250 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Have you played the Chinese game? How about the Closed Beta? I have, so I'm going to comment from actually playing the past 2 months, both in beta and on Chinese servers.

      Speculation on numbers is rubbish if you don't have any reason for them other than "it happened to every WoW-clone before it". This isn't quite a WoW clone. It's familiar, but no the same.

      Aion is actually very well polished compared to AoC. It's at 1.0.12 in China, and it's supposed to be at 1.5 by the NA release. That will make it much better than it already is, which is on the level of good. AoC fucking BLEW at launch. Completely.

      I never played warhammer, won't comment.

      You negelct to realize that every day brings WoW closer to it's death. You know how many people jsut get so damn bored of it already? Do you think eternal life is possible, even for a given product?

      Granted, reinvention is usually the winner during a change between generations. But you don't need to reinvent the Corvette to sell more; you need to give it a bigger engine. Then, when that doesn't catch people atttention anymore, change the body. Then, some large number of years later, scrap it for a new kind of car.

    2. Re:Aion will Flop by blahplusplus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "To make a new MMORPG be massively successful, it's going to take a re-invention of the genre..."

      I'd like the see the MMO genre die, single player RPG's have all but been abandoned in an attempt at a cash grab for monthly fee's from MMO's.

      The real problem is RPG's can't evolve within an MMO framework since the gameplay is ALWAYS the same in every god damn mmo, it's ALWAYS auto controlled and non-action (twitch/full control ala God of war) based.

      That's one of the things I can't stand about MMO's is the focus is on a single character and yet everything is automated out the ying yang and there is barely any skill involved. Not only that, the lag prevents certain kinds of design in terms of action and effects from happening due to latency.

      I hope all MMO's start to fade away as players get sick and tired of their monthly fee's. IMHO I've hated the MMO trend since the beginning how gamers can stand to get dinged $15 a month on top of full price for a game is pure insanity.

    3. Re:Aion will Flop by blackraven14250 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Every MMO has been the same old shit, including before WoW. I'd attribute it's success more to being contagious and being able to attract a large crowd at the start due to known IP that I would nearly anything else. The contagious factor can be brought into any game, and so can the crowd. It's just a matter of marketing, and getting word out to every last person possible about the awesomeness of the game before launch. I don't think enough people will be fickle enough to go "oh damn, they don't have a stun at level 15 on my warrior-type, back to WoW". Oh, and one thing Aion has far above and beyond WoW: it forces you to meet people within 15 hours of starting. At lv. 18, you stop getting quests except for ones that are for elites. You don't get another till 20 (ok, so you get like 2. Not nearly enough to level up). It forces community building, which is one of the main reasons people turn to MMO's, and by far the main reason people stay in MMO's for so long. They're really shitty games in general in terms of raw fun level that's built-in. Do you think anyone would play an MMO if it were single player?

    4. Re:Aion will Flop by dnaumov · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You are confused. Not reaching the userbase of WOW does not make an MMO a flop. EVE has been thriving for years with just ~250,000 users.

    5. Re:Aion will Flop by introspekt.i · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'm seeing a paradigm shit here

      A paradigm shit? I didn't even know they had anuses, or could even eat or drink for that matter. Do you have a camera? Could you take a picture? Or tell me where it is shitting?

    6. Re:Aion will Flop by dnaumov · · Score: 4, Informative

      Aion will have a couple hundred thousand subscribers if it's lucky, and those will churn out in a few months, the numbers will stabilize somewhere around 80K, and NCsoft will still be scratching their heads wondering why they can't publish a GOOD MMO.

      You do realise that the game has been out since November 2008 and has millions of active subscribers in Asia?

    7. Re:Aion will Flop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Do you think anyone would play an MMO if it were single player?

      I thought that was 80% of the population in WoW.

    8. Re:Aion will Flop by dnaumov · · Score: 2, Informative

      There are plenty of Asian MMOs that have plenty of players in the Asian market that just can't compete in the West. Oh, and WoW kicks ass for player numbers over there as well as here, but no Asian MMORPG has yet to achieve the same kind of crossover success.

      Since The9 and Blizzard became entangled in a web of legal disputes, China doesn't even HAVE official WoW servers anymore. Some chinese have flocked to the Taiwanese servers, but judging by the amount of players chinese Aion has managed to gather all out of nowhere, a lot of them didn't.

    9. Re:Aion will Flop by ghostdoc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Like I said in another post, MMO's are about community.

      Not any more.
      I played DAoC, then switched to WoW at launch and watched my guild fall apart because they could solo in WoW.

      People's preferences are clearly and absolutely:
      1: Group with a small number of very good friends
      2: Solo
      3: Group with guild mates (or people they know a bit and trust a bit)
      (and way down there)
      457657465674: Group with strangers

      For some people, 1 and 2 are interchangeable. I know people who play WoW daily and have *never* grouped to quest, only to pug instances.

      I think that part of WoW's huge success is because you can solo effectively in it, and that suits a lot of people just fine. I don't think any MMO that forces you to group up will get anywhere near WoW's numbers.

      It's sad, because my best memories are of times spent grouped up and laughing in either game.
      On the other hand my worst memories from either game are from other people too. I can understand not wanting to risk the bad stuff to possibly get the good stuff.

      --
      Business/App ideas are like arseholes: everyone's got one, they're mostly shit, but very rarely they contain a diamond
    10. Re:Aion will Flop by blackraven14250 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ....whom then leave within a couple days. This is the problem I had playing WoW: There were really no guilds for me to join on my server that didn't have a bunch of people who have been playing for massive amounts of time. I couldn't find people who didn't play, so every time I asked a question, snyde response. I had no reason to stick to the game, just because there was nothing special about it, and (at least on the servers I tried) found 0 people to talk to regularly. MMO's are really, really shitty games. Wash, rinse, repeat times 80 million. Once you have the best formula, there is no improving on DPS. You can improve on CC, but once you're used to using a fear and a restraint and a stun on 3 different guys, you're done. Healing is just waiting for bars to go down and avoiding aggro. If I can describe exactly how to play a type of character in a (long) sentence, that's really not deep gameplay I can do for hours on end myself with nobody to talk to.

    11. Re:Aion will Flop by xalorous · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Regarding SW:TOR. It is a fully realized MMO, not just a RPG. Bioware's first. LucasArts is fully behind the project. The graphics look gorgeous, and they're claiming that it will be "fully voiced". They have a really deep background universe to draw on including the movies, novels and prior games (MMO and RPG and action and FPS and flight sims, etc.) Plus they have probably the (most, second most, top 3 most) rabid group of fans in the sci-fi world, and probably the largest.

      If Bioware/LucasArts can pull off what they've started to the level of quality and polish that matches what they've released so far, this could be the one that competes with WoW.

      --
      TANSTAAFL GIGO Acronyms to live by!
    12. Re:Aion will Flop by Toonol · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This is true. Warcraft is a tough game for a new subscriber to start, now. Not the game itself; that's fine. But the culture, the MMO part of the RPG, is not at all friendly. It's great, I assume, if you've been playing for years and know all the lingo and social conventions.

      I never played. I watched my son try for a few weeks. He ended up canceling because nobody wanted anything to do with somebody who didn't already know all the proper etiquette on how to do multiplayer raids or whatnot. He was accused of pretending to be new; one guy said something like "You just started playing Warcraft NOW? You're lying."

      And without the promised extensive social interaction, Warcraft looked like a pretty mediocre RPG. I'm sure he could have stuck it out, eventually wormed his way into some guild or another, but why would he WANT to? That sounded about as thrilling as repeating your freshman year of high school. The startup of a new MMORPG would be far more attractive.

    13. Re:Aion will Flop by Exitar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Oh, and one thing Aion has far above and beyond WoW: it forces you to meet people within 15 hours of starting"

      Forces you? Who want to play a game that forces you to do something if you don't want to do it?

      If a MMORPG can't be soloed it will fail.
      A percentage of people like to quest alone and maybe instance in groups, so Aion would piss them off.
      But, more importantly, after some months a new player will find hard to be accepted in groups by more experienced players ("Hey, you're such a noob").

      The reason for WoW success is that it allows a large number of play styles (questing, raiding, pvp...)
      Games not so balanced will only satisfy a niche of population, so maybe people will start to play, see they don't really enjoy the game and leave.
      When many players leave, others will follow as the servers will start to look empty. Empty servers must be merged.
      Server merges helps the playing population to continue to enjoy the game but from outside it's seen as "ok, another failed MMORPG, I won't even try it"

      And I'm being optimistic, regarding Aion, as in all my reasonings above I assumed it won't be bug filled or with huge imbalances...

    14. Re:Aion will Flop by Tridus · · Score: 2

      Wait. So you stop getting the ability to advance yourself without grouping?

      Yeah, this game is screwed. That model was popular in the past, not anymore. Nobody wants to log in, then discover they can't do anything in game without first spending 45 minutes trying to find a tank and healer. The whole appeal of WoW is that you didn't need to team up with a bunch of random asshats and wait around all day before being able to play.

      --
      -- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
    15. Re:Aion will Flop by montyzooooma · · Score: 2, Informative

      I played the first EU Beta weekend - for a couple of hours. I don't have great hopes for the game at release. There's much made of the quest system, but it still comes down to grinding monsters for experience. I actually had more fun with Runes of Magic, for the also couple of hours I played it.

    16. Re:Aion will Flop by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If a MMORPG can't be soloed it will fail.

      Explain to me why I should pay 15 bucks a month to play a solo game? I can do that for free (after paying the initial price for the game, which I'd have to play for an MMO as well as for a "normal" game).

      The "solo-able" appeal of MMOs has always puzzled me. I'm all for games offering some sort of solo activity, so you can remain busy and active even when your friends aren't around or your class is currently not in demand, but making it a sensible way to spend your game time is certainly a way to drive me away from it. I do not pay 15 bucks a month to play a solo game.

      Yes, yes, just for the level grind... Huh? To quote you, "Forces you"? Forces me, in this case? I am forced to do something I don't want to do to play the part that is finally to my liking? It's probably not going to take long, these days leveling is done in a matter of weeks. Yet I am supposed to play a game I don't want to play for weeks to finally get to play what I want?

      Sounds insane if you ask me. It's like having to play through stages and stages of RTS game if you hate them so you can finally get to the FPS game part you want to play in the first place.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    17. Re:Aion will Flop by Impeesa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If a game doesn't allow solo play, then the corollary is you need a group to do anything. Groups can be hard to assemble and coordinate - sometimes it takes a while to get going, and sometimes you just don't feel like dealing with it, even if you normally enjoy it. If you can't do anything useful ungrouped, then why bother logging in for anything other than a scheduled guild raid? And if you're logging in that infrequently, why keep logging in at all? This is the downward spiral of a strictly group-only MMO.

    18. Re:Aion will Flop by MogNuts · · Score: 2, Informative

      The problem with /. groupthink is that since you read it everywhere, you assume it to be true. Case in point: Age of Conan.

      Age of Conan is actually a really fun game. I know /. loves to bash it left and right, but this is a case where they're wrong. And it's one of the few MMO's where there is actually a story and the quests aren't "kill X monsters and fetch X roots."

    19. Re:Aion will Flop by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Every MMO has been the same old shit, including before WoW. I'd attribute it's success more to being contagious and being able to attract a large crowd at the start due to known IP that I would nearly anything else. The contagious factor can be brought into any game, and so can the crowd. It's just a matter of marketing, and getting word out to every last person possible about the awesomeness of the game before launch.

      If "the same old shit" is all a game has, it is not surprising if it fails in competing against WOW. Because in terms of large crowds and buddies already playing the game, nothing beats WOW.

      IMHO a new MMO should have something that makes it different. It could
      -have strategic components to gameplay
      -require more and different player skills in combat (twitch based?). Mere button mashing gets boring fast. Tactically clever use of skill combos is better but also done to death by now.
      -be focused on empire building, with players controlling territory in game
      or something else NOT found in dozens of existing MMOs.

      EVE Online, for instance, has some of the first and last in the above list, and that gives it a depth most other MMOs cannot match. Subscriber numbers have constantly grown over the years and are over 300k now according to CCP. While not at WOW size, that is a nice success.

      Back to Aion, the TenTonHammer article mentions a system for conquering villages that brings the "empire" aspect into game, and there seems to be an unregulated area as PvP free fire zone. Sounds like Aion has a chance to find its own crowd, but it would need to be more innovative to draw me away from EVE ;-)

      --
      C - the footgun of programming languages
    20. Re:Aion will Flop by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ) Why should anyone who sunk 4+ years into WoW abandon it, there's no need. The game is still offering what it always offered, the people are still around, they managed to avoid pretty much everything that fu..ed up other MMOs in the past, why switch?

      Because they're bored.. because the game has changed significantly in the last few years - it's now heavily PvP based whereas that was barely a factor 4 years ago. Because the graphics engine is a good 5 years out of date and performs like crap on a modern graphics card.. because half the playerbase is now level 80 and just sits around waiting for the next expansion..

      2) Why should anyone who went away from WoW in disgust play a game that is way too similar to WoW?

      That's sort of true. No game should be replicating WoW, just taking some of the best elements and coming up with something new. The ones released so far seem to have taken the *worst* elements.

    21. Re:Aion will Flop by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's why I kinda like AOs approach to the problem: There is something to do for you (you can run solo missions from the mission term), but you level faster and get better stuff if you find a group to play with. At any level.

      With WoW, there's currently zero reason to get a group for anything but endgame raids. Leveling in a group? Forget it. You will spend those first 2 weeks/2 months (depending on whether you have a high level friend or not) alone, solo, without anyone near you (that is, you hope nobody is near you because the only thing any other player around will ever do is "stealing" the mobs you need for some quests). You will not do the group quests. If you're smart, that is. Because the xp you could get from them simply ain't worth the time investment, and neither is the loot.

      Now please tell me how to explain to someone new to MMOs how MMOs are a great MULTIplayer experience when the only thing he'll see for the first month of his existance is solo grinding/questing, with other players essentially serving as nuisances (if they happen to need the same mobs for their leveling) or as customers for their ore/cloth?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    22. Re:Aion will Flop by murdocj · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Explain to me why I should pay 15 bucks a month to play a solo game... snip... I'm all for games offering some sort of solo activity, so you can remain busy and active even when your friends aren't around or your class is currently not in demand,

      You answered your own question. I played Everquest for years, and it was excruciating to solo, so you sat around for extended periods of time begging for a group. WoW gives you the option to play the way YOU want to play... in a group to taking on tougher encounters, or solo if you can't find a group, or just don't feel like being social.

      One of the many strengths of WoW is that it does NOT "force" you to play any particular way. You love to explore on your own? No problem. Like to pvp? Check. Want to run thru a dungeon for an hour or two? Yep. Really want the bigger raid encounters that require a team to learn how to work together? Got that too.

      And it's all done really, really, really well. Blizzard doesn't do stuff that isn't thought out completely. THAT is why they have the 12 million players. It's not like they started out with some huge advantage. They earned a huge base by doing the hard work.

    23. Re:Aion will Flop by donweel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I have a similar experience. I kind of enjoyed the game casually leveling, and met some people along the way, but I really wanted to do raids. I got asked into a guild while questing in one of the newer areas of the Burning Crusade Expansion. Then things got interesting, it was a mature guild and the chat was ok but I didn't understand a lot of the chat and had to look up abbreviations in Wowwiki all the time. The Lich King expansion was just coming out and I ground like crazy to hit the level cap by release date. So I started raiding with the guild, I made some dumb mistakes and did ok at other times. Then the guild fell apart, so now I am almost geared for final Raids but not quite. I enjoyed raiding but don't want it to be a full time job. It seems like all the guilds around are either super elite, or quite lame. Hard to find a middle path. So I tried Warhammer Mac Beta, It has some nice graphics and some pretty good features, but it was pretty laggy for me. I thought the public quest idea was great where you just walk into an area and everyone that wanders in becomes grouped and can share in the loot which is rolled for automatically with extra chance for more participation. This game has potential. I also am involved in the Dungeons and Dragons Online beta test for their new expansion. This game is going free to play with an online store where you buy expansions, enhancements, and potions. Points for the store are also earned in some quests. Having played pen and paper D&D i clicked with the Dungeon Crawling experience right away. And found the chat to be usually mature and help-full. No hint of any lag, and the combat system is nice once you get used to it, as a rogue I could tumble away jump behind strike, and oh there is collision detection which makes combat more realistic. You aren't walking through a tank. The social interface works well which sucks in WoW, and you can find a group quickly. Once you are in there is a built in voice chat that you won't use much, cause as a group you move quickly through the instance and at the lower levels I was it with a group it was over quick where solo was a real problem. DDO is not as polished as WoW there is no search function in the auction house and it lacks some of the features of WoW but i think the core game has it where it counts in the combat system and full d&d rules. Free to play can't go wrong, have to run boot-camp for a while but I can fix that later with Codeweavers Crossover Games. Not sure if I will fully retire WoW I still enjoy the battle grounds and they are always expanding but I am going to see where DDO takes me. And as far as the Oriental Games go I was in Guild Wars beta it was fun as beta but when the actually game came out I became bored quickly, it was pretty, but the game play was not there.

      --
      Many a long talk since then I have had with the man in the moon; he had my confidence on the voyage. Joshua Slocum
  4. Unintended consequence? by Guppy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From the Article, concerning killing a PKing player (a "slayer"):

    6. If you or someone else kills a slayer, 12 nearby players of the dead body will receive buffs.

    Is the buff substantial? It sounds like it may be possible for players to use an alternate char to PK deliberately for the purpose of getting themselves killed, to buff their main characters. This might have the unintended consequences.

    1. Re:Unintended consequence? by blackraven14250 · · Score: 4, Informative

      You'd need a separate account, as in, if you roll an Asmo, you can't roll an Elyos on the same server. So, it's possible, but costly just for the buff. Plus, PKing is such a huge problem in the Chinese Aion, it's ludicrous. Capped chars (45) run into lv. 20 areas all the time. They needed to do something, and I hope it works out. I don't know, as they haven't rolled out the patch with this upgrade to all the Chinese regions yet.

  5. This is reverse corniness by TheModelEskimo · · Score: 5, Funny

    Right now someone in Japan is writing an article about how he's going to try putting on 300 pounds and importing a La-Z-Boy, just to get the full Western experience. Then he's going to see about getting one of these "basements." The idea is appealing to him; it's like an underground lair of sorts, typically accompanied by a pronounced lack of responsibility for personal development and a corresponding absence of hygiene. Sugee!

    1. Re:This is reverse corniness by brogdon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As in many other things relating to computers, Japan already has the lead in sexless, marginally employed men who live with their parents and play on the internet. They call them "herbivores."

      http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE56Q0C220090727?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=10522

      --


      This tagline is umop apisdn.
  6. Re:Gaming is a very personal social activity in As by blackraven14250 · · Score: 3, Informative

    their popular culture lends itself to the cartoonish graphical descriptions of games.

    Yeah, you'd definitely know this game is Asian based just on the style of all the armor and weapons past about 25. The equip for Templars/Gladiators looks straight out of RFO. Everything else looks totally unnecessary, highly colorful, and actually really cool.

  7. Warhammer by gearloos · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What? Warhammer Onlines dead? oh dam.. and I just hit rr70! Well, there is a couple servers still cranking along with good population.. but only a couple.

    --
    "Computers are a lot like Air Conditioners" "They both work great until you start opening Windows"
    1. Re:Warhammer by FreonTrip · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't have any personal experience with the game, but are you really concerned about a few mouseclicks before jumping into a game driven almost entirely by mouse-driven activities?

  8. "Asian Style"? by countvlad · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Can someone explain to those of us "stuck in the west" exactly what an "Asian Style" MMO is? Is it a game where the men look like women and the women are hot? Mouse-driven gaming sounds scary, kind of like using Macs before the switch to OSX and multi-button mice.

    1. Re:"Asian Style"? by Impeesa · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The distinguishing characteristics, as I understand it, are typically A) free to play, supported by micropayments for vanity stuff, and B) monotonous grindfests.

    2. Re:"Asian Style"? by blackraven14250 · · Score: 4, Informative

      They usually let you use the keyboard alot too. I dunno what the mouse thing is about.

      There really isn't much of a difference between Western and Eastern MMO's IMO. There's the difference in raw ridiculousness of the graphics, and sometimes the quality because if you target China, the shittiest MMO will bring in some players. Sometimes there's a difference in ridiculousness of story and various mechanics, such as Aion's flying vs. WoW's only-walking. I don't know what else is really different between the two. Maybe level of grind is one thing, and wether grinding PvP or PvE is better for equip at endgame.

      The biggest difference wouldn't be in the game itself, but in the players, IMO. Chinese players on Aion don't give a fuck about killstealing or anything. Ganking is ubercommon. One time, I was gathering some oysters, and a guy running up to me says stop, so I go to type "Why?" (I was in Asmo territory, in an area where Elyos were common and there was a rift open for them to get there). As I hit enter, I get back to him gathering the last oyster right there, and he sends a message going X-P. That would definitely empitomize the difference in culture when it comes to playing MMO's.

    3. Re:"Asian Style"? by Undead+Waffle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think it means you spend a thousand hours picking grass so you can raise your grasspicking skill 1% which increases your rabbit faction by 0.001.

  9. Lineage II in the US? by Roman+Mamedov · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Lineage II seems to have nowhere near WoW's popularity in the US. Given that Aion is done by the same company and is viewed by many as a LA2's "more/bigger/better", would it see the same fate?

  10. Subscribtion kills it by obi · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think there just isn't a lot of room on the market for subscription-based games. I suspect most people will have a budget for one or so, and they will have invested quite a bit of time in it - so there's very little incentive to switch.

    I think the Guild Wars model is much better: you pay for the game, you play for free. If you decide to stop for a few months, and pick it up later - no problem. If you decide you like the game and want access to more content, you buy the expansion packs.

    1. Re:Subscribtion kills it by edremy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Or you can try the LOTRO "lifetime subscription" option. Pay your $199/$299 (depending on sale) up front, -you still have to buy the game and any expansion packs like Moria, but you don't have any more subscription fees. Most of the serious players I know are lifers.

      --
      "Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
  11. What I want to know is by introspekt.i · · Score: 5, Funny

    Why all these games have pictures of half naked women running around in the snow like it's no big deal. They look really, really cold.

  12. Western vs Eastern RPG's - W vs E MMORPGS by Cordath · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One thing that I think the article is absolutely wrong about is that Western RPG's or MMO's are in any way behind Eastern ones. From Baldur's Gate to Planescape: Torment to the KOTOR series, single player western RPG's have really pushed the boundaries and given us compelling and unique experiences. While the West churns out fewer RPG's than the East, they tend to be much more varied and innovative, especially in terms of characterization and plot. When a good Western RPG comes out I can look forward to a fresh experience, while most Eastern RPG's feel annoyingly familiar. Playing them, I always experience deluges of deja vu and have to carefully switch off parts of my brain. (e.g. The part that doesn't want to play a bitchy adolescent male prodigy saving the universe... again.) The things that appeal to Eastern audiences, like those fucking chocobo's, aren't what float my boat. Likewise, to say that the West is behind in the MMO department, with WoW absolutely stomping Eastern MMO's in their own bloody markets...

    Aion looks like a solid eastern MMORPG, but nothing compelling enough to dethrone WoW. It's artwork also feels distinctly Eastern, which means it will flop in the West. Lots of people in the West love anime, love Kurosawa, love Chan-wook Park, but they're still a very small minority. The majority of people will not go for something that feels too Eastern, just as Eastern audiences flocked to Lineage but not to western MMOs. Cultural barriers definitely do exist between the East and the West and Aion doesn't look like a MMO that transcends them. It really is extraordinary that WoW has somehow managed to appeal to both the East and West, and I'm not sure even Blizzard knows how they managed it.

    So, what's going to dethrone WoW? Slap me silly with a mackerel if I have a clue. Probably WoW2. It's not really a terribly interesting question. What is an interesting question is when we're going to see hugely popular MMO's on the scale of WoW in genres other than fantasy. There are a lot of people out there who love sci-fi and not fantasy, or who love historical settings and not sci-fi or fantasy. These are largely untapped markets. There is probably room for several big MMO's to do well at the same time, provided they target different genres. (another reason why Aion is probably doomed.)

    Bioware's KOTOR MMO looks promising. It's sci-fi, which hasn't really been done well in a MMO sense except possibly for Eve Online, but the space-sim market is arguably a different genre from what KOTOR targets. Bioware has a long track record of excellent single player RPG's, but it remains to be seen if they have what it takes to put out a MMO, especially now that they have their own sort of "imperial entanglement" predicament now that they're under EA's umbrella. (You can bet there will be pressure to release early coming from EA, no matter how much Bioware claims they are the master of their own domain!) A lot of single player RPG fans are up in arms over KOTOR being turned into a MMO, since KOTOR's strength was it's compelling stories, which are remarkably hard to do in a MMO that is more about player dynamics. Bioware claims they've found the holy grail of MMO's though, a way to bring single player plots to massive online environments. That's a bold claim, if ever there was one. I wish them luck.

  13. Try the Asian model for free for first-hand info by PsyQ · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Most Americans (at least judging by American MMO bloggers' postings) don't really like the concept of MMOs running on RMTs, but if you want a preview of the Asian style of MMO, try Runes of Magic. You'll notice that most Asian games come with a lot more convenience features than you'd find in e.g. WoW, where basic things turn into a chore. In RoM you have auto-walk, auto-find-NPC, your quest journal's important words are linked directly to an auto-walk path to the monster/person you need to find, there are many methods of instant or fast transport, free player housing from level 1, permanent mount available for purchase from level 1 etc.

    If you can for one second swallow your hate of mouse-based walking (there's WASD too, for chrissakes) and RMTs, you'll see that a game doesn't become stupidly easy just because it is convenient to play.

    You can find some of that in Perfect World and Jade Dynasty or any of the Aeria games as well, but I wouldn't recommend those. Runes of Magic is very well-adapted to the Western audience. Many other Asian MMOs are endless grindfests, because it seems that people there don't mind grinding to achieve things in a game. Radiant Arcana (as the original Runes of Magic is called in China/Taiwan/Japan/Korea) is a much more grindy game than Runes, since Frogster figured that Western players don't have the patience for a grindfest. I think they may be right.

    So before someone writes an article about Eastern vs. Western-style MMOs, they should perhaps look at deeper game design elements rather than just imply "oh wow, mouse control is so you can smoke with your other hand". Also, I think the author of TFA didn't even notice that Aion's Western version had a lot of grind removed and is faster to play than the original. If he thinks the leveling curve is bad here, he should play the Korean one.

    Someone get a Taiwanese, a Korean, a Japanese, a British and an American game journalist to work on an article, that way they'd talk to each other and debunk some of the myths :P

  14. Re:Try the Asian model for free for first-hand inf by magamiako1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A) I'd rather pay a monthly subscription to a game than enter a game that has micro transactions for items. The potential for impulse buying is way too high. Yes, players should be more responsible with their money blah blah blah......but you tell me that impulse buying isn't going to be a significant problem for the players (obviously not for the company).

    B) I don't like grinding--period. The only time I ever grind in wow is on the very rare chance I am bored and have nothing better to do. My grinding lasts no more than 30-45 minutes at a time. Grinding being: killing the same group of mobs repeatedly, flying around a zone mining, etc.

    If the game requires any of these two elements, I just am not going to play it. If anything, I'd rather WoW become more difficult and skill-based to play. I'd rather the higher end content require more effort, coordination, and dedication than it takes now. Grinding for hours on end is not my kind of fun.

  15. Re:Pedophiles? by exley · · Score: 2, Funny

    Asian women look like little girls--with the flat nose bridge.

    You say that like it's a bad thing.

  16. Not your typical asian mmo by Electros · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So I wanted to correct a few assumptions people are making with this post, I'm biased but will try to stick to facts =p 1. Aion is a grindfest ~ Untrue, aions leveling is a little bit easier than WoWs. I can't comment on raiding and crafting but early crafting is easier than WoW also. 2. Aions graphics are too good to beat WoW in the casual segment with older computers ~ Also untrue, Aion runs much more smoothly than WoW for me on my rig. I have a nice rig but I get 70-100 fps in Aion, I'm lucky to hit 30 in WoW. 3. WoW has been out for many years and is very polished, New mmos are buggy and will fail like age of Conan and warhammer did. ~ Aion has been out for a year in asia, and is very effecient. I haven't noticed any bugs in the game. I played age of conan and the comparison is apples and oranges. Aion may not be the runaway success people are making it out to be, it may not beat WoW either. There's no question in my mind that the game is better than WoW, but Asian mmo's seem to carry a large stigma and its hard to get people to switch mmo's either way. Also there remains the question of the dev team and how they deal with hackers//bots//exploits that can't be answered yet for obvious reasons but from its history in asia they have pushed out huge content patches relatively fast and bug free.

  17. Ultima Online isn't (or wasn't, anyways) by countvlad · · Score: 3, Informative

    When UO first came out (almost 11 years ago now) there was really very little grinding. Things got harder as the in game mechanics were adjusted, but macroing took a lot of the monotony out of the repetitive tasks required to raise skills.

    Of course when UO came out, it was raw, untamed, and breaking new ground in gaming. There was a lot more risk involved and a lot less rules enforcing any kind of social behavior; looking back, I miss watching the enforcement of social order by the players and not the game. It was an exciting if sometimes frustrating time in gaming. As "hardcore" as games like EQ and WoW turned out to be, they don't even compare to UO in a lot of ways.

    In the end, it was crushed by its own popularity - things have a way of inevitably declining into mediocrity as their popularity explodes, only to die a slow death as they breath life into new stars around them.

    But if there's one phrase I would never use to describe UO, it would be "monotonous grindfest."

  18. I concur, i ahd the same experience by aepervius · · Score: 4, Informative

    I started playing WoW in march 2009. I kept hearing stuff like I am "faking being a newb" that I am a "fucktard" for not knowing what to do or not to do during boss fights, I was disbelieved when saying I had no alt (shortly after they laughed at me because I did not know what an alt was or an "owl" or a "dudu"). When i reached the burning crusade floating island this went even worst so I decided to stop, and I will only flock to new MMO now. So I am pretty sure everybody is about as newb as I am.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
    1. Re:I concur, i ahd the same experience by badness · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Thanks for proving his point.

  19. West vs Asia? by andersh · · Score: 4, Informative

    What a bunch of nonsense. The "West" is not exactly lagging in broadband, however the US is. The West is not synonymous with the US. Europe is doing quite well in the broadband ratings, especially Western Europe [or Northern Europe].
    Furthermore Asia as a whole is not exactly leading the broadband race either. While Japan and Korea are of course very well developed, try making the same comparison with India or other large nations such as Indonesia.

  20. What transition? by Tridus · · Score: 3, Informative

    I've played in a couple of these beta events. Far as I've seen, no transition is required. It's the same game.

    - Combat: You stand there pushing buttons to activate abilities, same as every other MMO on the planet. Some skills can chain into other skills, but the UI puts the next skill in the chain on the same button as the first skill, so you can really just mash that button and make it work. If you're playing the healing class (Cleric), the number of offensive skills you get is pretty small and they're boring as shit (primary nuke with a 2 second cooldown, yay autoattack?).

    - Flight: Flying around is neat. But for some reason, you can't use it in Sanctum (one of the capital cities). You can't use it in the zone immediately after the one where you are first allowed to use it. Flying as a part of combat is mostly... floating stationary so you can cast spells. It probably becomes more important in the Abyss, but from as far as I got it was a gimmick.

    - Quests: Kill 10 of these, go collect this, go talk to this guy and report back. Nothing you haven't done in every other game. In the beta there's no particular etiquette regarding gathering, people will run up and try to take nodes that you're already working on. Gathering itself actually uses some weird random system with two bars (pass/fail) dueling that takes far too long and is like watching paint dry. They could have added something interactive here to improve it considerably over WoW, but they didn't.

    - Grouping: Remember "LF1M, need healer"? It's back. Only two classes can heal, and only one of those is "the primary healer". That class is incredibly boring if you're not healing, which is great since you can't heal mobs to death in the soloable areas. Is it some kind of design law that healing classes in MMOs must be designed to be mind numbing to play when grinding? There's no option for dual spec like WoW has to turn yourself into a DPSer and make the suck stop.

    - Graphics: It looks really nice, if you have the hardware. High end performance is better then WoW, considerably. Low end performance is non existant on a lot of hardware that will play WoW. Which isn't surprising since WoW is optimized at the low end and totally CPU bound at the high end.

    I cancelled my pre-order this week. May pick it up in a few months if I'm bored, but right now I'm not bored of WoW, and Aion pretty much plays like the same game.

    --
    -- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
  21. Re:Gaming is a very personal social activity in As by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Ohhh.... trolls have evolved! This troll uses whole sentences, attempts to establish cause and effect, has an introduction, main point, and a summary... and yet is as much a troll as "Asians are fags, kekeke". Just to demonstrate the scope of trolling, solipsism a philosophical concept that argues that only the mind can be proven to exist. It has nothing to do with remote kills being easier to perform than a personal stabbing.

    --
    Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
  22. How do you define the groups? by Feyshtey · · Score: 2, Interesting

    And how do you match them?

    Level: Fails because two characters at equal level can have vastly different goals, gear, experience, and motivations.

    Gear: Fails because even if the gear two characters are in roughly equal gear, one player can be vastly more skilled, and is just at a lower end of the progression curve for his playstyle. Again, goals, experience and motivations can vastly differ.

    Player-defined: You rarely have 2 people agree on definitions of 'Casual', or 'Raider', or 'Hard-Core', or 'Core'. And even if you did, you're still looking at different games. Not just different groups of people playing. A server composed entirely of 'Casual' players is not likely to often have organized 40 person raids that can cohesively overcome the most challenging of encounters. It would be counterproductive to scale those encounters according to the populace because doing so would encourage the instant gratification raiders to just sign up for the casual servers instead. If you mean to group people under the above definitions and not actually seperate them among gameworlds ... that's essentially what exists now. If you are very casual, you're most likely to be using the LFG tool (which could be more widely advertised as an option for those who are unaware). If you're a bit toward the more intense playstyle on the scale, you probably already have the social networking to do the things you're interested in doing. And like any classifications of people, nothing is concrete. There's overlap. And in that overlap are the oppurtunities to learn about others and what is required to find your niche. The overlap, the lack of clarity in classifying people and who they should or should not group with, is the gaurantee in eventually finding your best-suited groupmates.

    --
    "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
  23. One word, GameGuard by nsanders · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GameGuard

    nProtect GameGuard (sometimes called GG) is an anti-cheating software

    Because of the way that GameGuard hooks into core system DLLs and interrupts[6], it is impossible (without hacking GameGuard and violating the TOS) to run games protected by GameGuard under Windows API Emulators, such as Wine under Unix-based operating systems[7]. The key issue being that GameGuard bypasses the OS safeguards in order to:

            * Hide the game application process.
            * Monitor the entire memory range.
            * Terminate specific applications without the user consent (sometimes tries to disable Kernel hooks).
            * Block specific calls to DirectX or the Windows API.

    Don't try and compare this to Blizzard's Warden, which no longer scans out of game memory, doesn't kill process as it wishes, doesn't actively block API calls, nor does it imbed its self into your OS only to be removed via a reformat and reinstall.