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Avatar, Has Sci-fi Found Its Heaven's Gate?
brumgrunt writes "Den Of Geek wonders if James Cameron's Avatar is heading for a fall, and if it will even be a science fiction film, off the back of the previews shown last week. It writes: 'It seems in Avatar that all this gee-whiz science is merely there to draw the "old crowd" in and provide some kind of rationale for a brightly-coloured fantasy-world which reflects the most emetic of the artwork plastered over teenage girls' MySpace pages.'"
Wait, what is this story? Looks like some editorial about how Avatar won't be good.
Uhhh...the movie is supposed to convince people to dress in identical black shirts and sweat pants, brand new black-and-white Nike Windrunner athletic shoes, and armband patches reading "Avatar Away Team" before committing suicide by mixing barbituates with vodka and plastic bags?
If Rocky Horror Picture Show didn't induce that type of cult-like following -- though it was damn close -- I have a hard time imagining Avatar will.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven's_Gate_(religious_group)
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Or, Avatar will completely whip ass and this and all other negative critiques will be laughed at and/or forgotten.
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Where District 9 is already as great as Star Wars and a movie that's not even out sucks.
"Most Snarky Use of the Word 'Emetic'"
And, may I add, perfectly appropriate and accurate, when used in reference to a huge proportion of the great wasteland that is MySpace.
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
So are we now judging a book by its cover? Thanks but no thanks, I'll wait until I see all the reviews on rottentomatoes before making judgement. Something tells me critics who have actually seen the movie and know how to write and think about film might be a better barometer than random nerd on the internet.
Funny how the synopsis mocks teenage girls, but we dont mock teenage fanboys who loudly declare "FAIL" after just seeing a teaser trailer. Seems thats the more odious habit.
Ironically, the teaser trailer has done its job: its got everyone talking. So little an investment for so much publicity.
>third-rate fantasy masturbatory session for furries and other WoW-playing losers.
Err, you do know youre posting on slashdot, right?
In Avatar, mankind has the ability to cross the voids of space in an effort to mine a mineral rich alien world. Bring these minerals back for refinemant and use. We have the ability to implant a human mind into an alien avatar body that we have ourselves created and control that persons new avatar body. And yet we can't repair a paralyzed human body? Fail.
My humor is probably your flamebait
>third-rate fantasy masturbatory session for furries and other WoW-playing losers.
Err, you do know youre posting on slashdot, right?
That's why he posted AC.
I learnt about Avatar the other night, when I saw an ad for it. I looked it up on Wikipedia, read it over, and I thought, "This looks like Dances with Wolves in Space." I was curious whether anyone else made that analogy, so I googled "avatar film dances with wolves."
..."
The first hit I got was "James Cameron: Yes, 'Avatar' is 'Dances with Wolves' in space
At this point, it would have to be really damn good for me to see it. I don't need blue aliens telling me how bad White Manifest Destiney was in the United States. But I definitely don't need the overtones of insert-enlightened-human-here going in and saving the tribe^H^H^H^H^H by becoming it's leader, which is what the director was talking about.
Just say'n.
Avatar: FernGully with Mechs.
I'm more excited about the Last Airbender, to be perfectly honest, so "Avatar" in the thread title always gets me...
I think people should stop nit-picking about Avatar being science fiction... yes, it is science fiction.
Stupid, sexy Flanders.
For a moment there I read this comment as "No one wants to see tall blue Elvis Ewoks", and I was about to argue most vehemently that that's exactly what I do want to see in a movie.
That's actually what I thought when I heard the title too. Except that's "Avatar: The Last Air Bender." And there is a movie coming out called "The Last Air Bender" which is based on that anime. This "Avatar" is unrelated to that one. Needless to say, I was still rather confused.
Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
"...which reflects the most emetic of the artwork plastered over teenage girls' MySpace pages"
Ever since Twilight came out and fangirling became mainstream, the response by so many boys has been dismissive and derisive. But in a room full of boys talking about World of Warcraft nobody flinches. It's a double standard.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
sure... while teenage boys' fantasies get exalted into "real sci-fi"? (like, say the recent star trek movie?) mayhap den of geek should adjust his testosterone obsession by reading ursula le guin, c. j. cherryh, octavia butler, dorris lessing, joanna rush, emma bull, oh and heck, anne mccaffrey. i can't help but imagine that it would nicely leaven the quality of questions about sci-fi he poses.
Strange. When I see halo-Warthog type vehicles, dropships, and tall blue aliens, the first thing that comes to my mind is how much this movie was built to be made into toys.
Whether or not there is some sort of god, I'm not supposed to say/god is a word and the argument ends there-Smog
James F*cking Cameron
Has he let us down up until now? Aliens, Terminator, T2, Abyss (not kick-ass amazing, but still a good flick), True Lies... you have to go back to Pirhana to get a stinker, and he was still cutting his chops, and he didn't write it.
And I don't know what trailer the critic watched, but I'm with Sam Worthington: "This is *GREAT*"
Design for Use, not Construction!
"No one wants to see tall blue Elvish Ewoks."
For a moment there I read this comment as "No one wants to see tall blue Elvis Ewoks", and I was about to argue most vehemently that that's exactly what I do want to see in a movie.
Naked tall blue Elvis Ewoks.
Oh, God, I just wrote "Watchmen II"
Why, without your clothes, you're naked, Miss Dudley!
I once knew an "airbender". We called him "The Last Windbreaker". He claimed it had something to do with enzymes, and digestion. The breakdown of vegetable material in the greater intestine was mentioned.
As far as first impressions? He didn't make a good one - let's leave it at that.
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
http://www.avclub.com/articles/inventory-eight-surefire-fiascoes-that-unexpectedl,1532/
titanic was way over budget and plenty in hollywood were sharpening the knives and whispering about cameron's "heaven's gate"... in 1997
it didn't turn out that way. so many teenage girls around the world seeing that movie 10 times in a row. the guy hit one out of the ballpark
but there's another guy who took a dubious premise and knocked one out of the ballpark... and then went even more ambitious and wound up with a career killing flop
i am (ironically, since avatar is, as so many have noted, just dances with wolves in space) talking about kevin costner and his way over budget little personal project called dances with wolves that so many had rejected throughout the 1980s and he staked so much on career-wise
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dances_with_wolves#Production
then what happened after gaining so much legitimacy in the face of so much doubt? kevin costner followed up with waterworld
gulp
his career was never the same after that flop (even though, personally, i never thought it was a bad movie, it was enjoyable, just somewhat flawed, but not repulsively so)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterworld#Box_office_and_reception
so, to conclude
titanic : cameron = dances with wolves : costner
? avatar : cameron = waterworld : costner ?
no man is immune to hubris. avatar may very well be cameron's undoing. but then again, avoid the counsel of anyone who is certain avatar will kill cameron's career. no one knows yet, and anyone who "knows" certainly suffers from the same deadly hubris
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I was going to say this, but of course you beat me to it. District 9 is one of the most legitimate serious science fiction / extrapolative fiction movies I've seen in a long, long time - things you usually only get in books. A limited number of fantastical assumptions, and then the exploration of the very rational ramifications of those assumptions.
And it was made on a relative shoestring, and the effects are perfect -- and the acting is amazing. But if you're expecting a 100% crazy action/effects movie, District 9 isn't it. (Neither is Inglorious Bastards, which is also awesome)
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While I'm very interested in watching the movie, at this point Avatar looks like it's going to feature the same old contrived storyline featured in sci-fi over the last decade: humanity and industrialization are evil and nature and those connected to it are good. There's been this tendency to depict humans are awful, uncaring monsters.
It's reminiscent of District 9 where humans and the multinational corporation central to the story were so over-the-top evil it was almost comical. I will add that I did very much enjoy District 9 as far as favorite sci-fi movies go for me it's near the top of the list. I can appreciate the point of the message and liked the impact, but I would have preferred it to not be so simplistic in it's worldview. There are multiple sides to every story and I'm fairly certain that in this day and age there would be a lot of outrage to see extraterrestrials being treated this way.
Basically, my point is while I do think we need to be reminded of the problems of the world I would prefer movies sophisticated in it's presentation. Sometimes I feel like these people in Hollywood are conflicted about the lavish lifestyles they enjoy and are trying to foist their guilt trips on us.
That was my first impression as well. It doesn't do much to convince me that the movie will be legitimate science-fiction, rather than fluffy science-fantasy, when the aliens are bright anime-blue with giant cartoon doe-eyes.
And me thinking it was a furry kill fest. A chance to see those pests killed by the thousands by mechs and mowed down by machine guns while they moaned pitifully, waving their little bows and orangina bottles and fluttering those big eyelids before being crushed by gigantic robotic armored suits.
I too would have waited 10 or 15 years to get it just right. To get the fur to ripple just so as the metal squashes it into the mud.
And I was so eager to see it too... I'm so disappointed.
May contain traces of nut.
Made from the freshest electrons.
Actually the mech wasn't the badguy, the humans running it just accidentally let out the bad guy by cutting up the tree he was magically imprisoned in.
What, why are you all looking at me like that?
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
And what is wrong with hot blue chicks that are slightly feral? I know as I kid I lived the hot green chicks in the Original Star Trek.
I eat Karma for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. That's why I don't have any.
I was watching Matrix Reloaded last night and I realized that they probably won't make movies like that again.
And that's a bad thing because...?
I saw a trailer for Surrogates at District Nine. It appears to be about people in the real world whose bodies are used (rented) to virtual players. And soemthing goes wrong! Cameron's looks it will have better F/X.
You'll know the answer to that question when Avatar launches. Think before you type.
Let's see. The Matrix sequels laid a bit of Dan Brown pseudo-philosophy on top of a series of disconnected scenes strung together to show off the special effects. Avatar promises to lay a bit of cyberpunk/videogame explanations on a simplistic story to show off the special effects and set design. What's your point?
It is actually an action-based SF 3D movie.
NOT a political/ecological diatribe about "how bad White Manifest Destiney was in the United States.".
Because you are such a fan of Google-based-deduction, try this search string: avatar after seeing IMAX preview.
You know... opinions of the people who actually saw the 3D footage in 3D - and a little more of it than a chopped up teaser trailer.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Wow, you're amazingly not good at following plot points. Maybe there are holes in the plot, but they sure aren't the ones you listed.
As much as I want to rebut everything in great detail, it turns out I don't care quite enough. So a few... and I'll endeavor not to add any spoilers you didn't already give, and I'm dekarmaing this post to help.
6. Worker Prawns lack initiative. Definitely said early in the movie.
5. is because of 6.
3. If you PROCESS some material/chemical, it probably has different effects/uses than it had before you processed it. Otherwise why would you process it? Did you miss that whole bit of the movie?
2/3. That part about "powering the command module" - you made that up. At no point is powering a command module ever anything any characters are aspiring to. In the interest of avoiding spoilers, I'll leave it to you to figure out which part of those 4 words you might've gotten wrong.
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This "Avatar" is unrelated to that one. Needless to say, I was still rather confused.
Even more so, here.
I've been playing old school (Pre-EA) Ultima, where every third schmo on the street greets you with something along the lines of:
"Avatar, you must save my son from the daemons!"
"Avatar, seek out the rune of Compassion!"
"Avatar, have you seen my daughter that I left in a tree stump last week?"
...So I understandably mis-parsed the article title "Avatar, Has Sci-fi Found Its Heaven's Gate?"
>> Standing on head makes smile of frown, but rest of face also upside down.
1) It's James Cameron. Is this still Slashdot? Do I really have to explain who this is and why he deserves some credit?
2) IMAX 3D. It's phenomenal. Really, it is. The Avatar preview was one of the most exciting things I've seen, visually, in a long time. It was like playing Doom for the first time. Or the first time seeing bullet time in the Matrix. And I know what you're going to say, "a good film should be enjoyable on any medium". Sure, enjoyable. But would you say that a Rembrandt is just as enjoyable to watch as a monochrome poststamp reproduction? Or that you'd just as well listen to Pink Floyd over the telephone? No, it would ruin the experience. Cameron has always pushed the envelope both visually and technically. T2 and Aliens were mostly just very well designed and executed remakes of the original, mostly.
3) The plot. Most of us haven't read the screenplay. So we are basing our judgment on a two minute trailer. The premise of "Dances with Wolves" in space doesn't sound exciting, so what? It's exactly that; a premise. Most films are based on a simple premise, it's what you do with it that matters. I personally like the idea of a classic adventure film set it space, but maybe that's me. If you don't like a story about a young man who leaves his home planet to fight with a group of rebels against a technically seemingly superior power by tapping into some mythical power, so be it.
4) The trailer. I actually agree. I don't think it's well done at all. Too much slow-motion, which completely cripples the motion capture performance. After seeing it, I had serious doubts about going to the IMAX screening. I can only say, I'm glad I went.
Existenze, 13th floor, Matrix-1
it reminds me more of the hype around Polar Express "making live actors extraneous." I think that movie made money, but it wasn't exactly game changing
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I've never heard of anyone (prior to you) hating Jar Jar for being a 'realistic' CG character. They hate him because of his silly slapstick humour, or his caricatured portrayal of Jamaicans. In fact, the Star Wars Prequels (with Yoda), and the LOTR Trilogy (with Gollum), are a pretty good indication that fully CG characters can be embraced by audiences.
Didn't anyone actually watch the trailer? I don't mean the effects or the monsters, I mean the part where they announce it's from the director of 'Titanic'. Not the director of 'Terminator 2', or 'Aliens', or even 'Abyss'.
In that moment, it became obvious to me they're not targeting it to the sci-fi action crowd. Anyone who thinks they are will doubtless be disappointed.
When I first heard Cameron say (many years ago now) that he wanted to revisit the sci-fi epic, I was giddy. Then, as details of this project trickled out, I started to have some doubts. Now that I've seen the latest, I'm crestfallen. I have absolutely no interest in a Last of the Mohicans meets The Last Samurai meets Dances With Wolves bit of tedious sermonizing on the topic of colonization or imperialism. Even less so if it's infused with the pacifist, blame-ourselves-for-everything-evil subtext that pervades modern cinema and other media. Perhaps I could overcome my aversion to this type of post-modern drivel if at least I could be treated to an extraordinary visual experience. Even here, it seems that Avatar will not deliver; it looks like cut-scenes from some Pixar/Halo mashup. I thought (hoped) that Titanic was the exception to an otherwise amazing body of work, but it seems that it was a course change for James Cameron. Bummer.
OK, lets review what we've seen so far.
Spaceships? Check.
Mech-suits? Check.
Aliens? Check.
How could Avatar possibly be considered sci-fi...
It gripped her hand gently. 'Regret is for humans,' it said.