Slashdot Mirror
VA Mistakenly Tells Vets They Have Fatal Illness
An anonymous reader writes "Thanks to a computer glitch and bad diagnosis coding, the VA sent a letter to thousands of veterans telling them they have Lou Gehrig's Disease. Some were right, but many were mistakes. From the article, 'Recently, the VA determined ALS to be a service-connected disability and generated automatic letters to all veterans whose records included the code for the disease. However, since the coding contained both ALS and undiagnosed neurological disorders, some of those letters were erroneous.'"
next time, face to face is a good idea...
Any jobs declined, life and health insurance policies refused and suicides.
ALS is basically a slow and unpleasant death sentence unless you are lucky and can afford proper care. You really don't want to be told you have something that will lock your working brain into your body until you suffocate without a breathing apparatus.
I'm perfectly aware many people can live for ages with ALS, but a significant portion aren't as lucky...
.: Max Romantschuk
If I got a random letter saying I had a fatal neurological condition, I'd be slightly sceptical. Maybe that's just me though.
Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
Yeah, but these aren't random letters. These are letters from the government. The VA is basically the government health care system for veterans.
If they sent me a letter, I'd think I'd take it seriously.
If I got a random letter saying I had a fatal neurological condition, I'd be slightly sceptical. Maybe that's just me though.
Except these patients already had "undiagnosed neurological conditions". If you had neurological problems, were seeking a diagnosis, had been evaluated inconclusively before, and received a notice from your hospital that you have ALS, you might be less skeptical and more devastated.
I am a geek attorney, but not your geek attorney unless you've already retained me. This is not legal advice.
Point. In my experience, though, generally they like to give out "you're going to die" type news in person. Hell, even the results of a standard blood test require you to go in and pay the standard consultation tax.
Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
Well obviously in this case they send the news via letter (since the letter itself was intentional just not the recipients).
The VA is basically the government health care system for veterans.
Oh veterans, not veterinarians. That's a really unfortunate use of an abbreviation.
It'll be awesome when all of our health care is, by law, just as efficient and personal.
1 How is it service related? exposure to........ 2 If someones file has the code they should already be diagnosed right.
An especially scary phrase when it applies to healthcare, no?
There I was, looking for a story about veterinarians in Virginia...
"Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
VA Mistakenly Tells Vets They Have Fatal Illness
"Vet" means a veterinary doctor, not a veteran. Stupid title.
Catalin Braescu
Ofaly.com
Sounds like they hit the magic id '99999' to undiagnosed Time to upgrade to '999999'!
Bot Assisted Blogging
Point. In my experience, though, generally they like to give out "you're going to die" type news in person. Hell, even the results of a standard blood test require you to go in and pay the standard consultation tax.
Oh, really? This is a government bureaucracy we're talking about.
THIS is what we'd ALL get if Obama and the Dems win their attempt to have a government takeover of health care.
Government should just mail an official looking letter to everybody:
Dear XY,
You are not suffering from any fatal neurological conditions.
Regards.
This would vastly increase the accuracy of the mailing and would also be better for the general mood.
What I do for a living: Build a GPS mobile game
Shenanigans.
So you're all up in arms about it, good for you. But instead of offering a solution, or saying something good like "This isn't how we should treat our veterans," you instead decide to lambaste a proposed program that I'll admit is a bit socialist.
Given your attitude I expect you to return any social security payments you receive and decline any medicare coverage. While you're at it, stop driving on my roads and don't call emergency services when you need them.
"There are no facts, only interpretations." --Friedrich Nietzsche.
There are presently 3 "single payer" health care systems in the US: The VA, IHS (Indian Health Services), and Medicare.
The VA has a long history of misdiagnosis and hospitals that don't meet the cleanliness standards most McDonalds must keep, the IHS itself admits that it doesn't have the money to do anything put extremely urgent care, barely (as opposed to the full and complete care it is obligated to provide by treaty), and Medicare pays regular health care providers about 65% of the costs of treatment, does so 9-24 months late, and is on schedule to devour the entire federal budget by 2019 (assuming it is not expanded by ObamaCare).
As a Military Servicemember, and the son of a vet who just became eligible for medicare, I want LESS government in Healthcare, and am not surprised in the least by these letters. I'm actually more surprised that they were reported in the media, this time.
Point. In my experience, though, generally they like to give out "you're going to die" type news in person. Hell, even the results of a standard blood test require you to go in and pay the standard consultation tax.
They don't make money when they see you at some broken-down VA medical center. My dad is a veteran with an arterial blockage. They won't give him the medication for some reason, and they won't operate because "it's not bad enough". They will do anything they can do NOT provide you any care at the VA; sending you a letter informing you that you probably have less than a year to live is just a cost-cutting measure.
The VA is just a more societally acceptable alternative to shooting veterans dead on the white house lawn, it has nothing to do with helping people unless that's the cheapest way to get them out of your hair. The members of the military that they actually care about (commissioned officers) can afford real medical care. If they just built one less bomber and a few less cruise missiles they could afford to ramp up the care to be some of the world's best, as our veterans deserve (at least as much as anyone else!)
If we're really the greatest nation on the planet, we should have the best medical care. To provide especially sub-standard health care to veterans (as we very much do) is a MASSIVE FAILURE to be great. It is, in fact, incredibly small and petty.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
As far as i know there is no US government take over of healthcare? A US government run health insurance company, yes. Don't want it? ok.. don't use it.. it's voluntary.
http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
actually, no it isn't voluntary. Under the currently purposed plans, if you opt out or for lesser coverage, you will be enrolled in a sponsored plan and receive a tax penalty for the costs. That's no where near voluntary.
this and a private medical company?
You find out about the error when a government agency does it.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I didn't see a reference to either actual study, and the two studies discussed had seperate methods* and different focues. Drawning two studies to get to a conclusion that only 1 was looking for is weak.
It also doesn't look at the possiblility that ALS is more common then thought, it's just the military personal get regular medical check-ups and treatment.
I am NOT saying the studies are wrong, only that it's not very conclusive.
I do want to say that I would like to see some more good studies done on that. Particularly looking at the fact that there is an increase no matter which branch, job, or duration in the military. that's very odd and does smell of a flawed study.
*they didn't go into to the details of the methods that deep.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
This type of thing happens in private companies more often. They aren't under any pressure to lat anyone know and have PR to minimize the damage. Point in fact it's exactly why I will never work in the private medical industry again.
The actually people that study medicare for a living. The actually experts aren't concerned about medicare and dont believe it will eat the federal budget. That's republican Neo Con propaganda. The same propaganda that said it would ahve devoured the budget 20 years ago. Every ten year, they say it will devour the budget in ten years.
Universal health care is not about running health care. It's about guidleines, fairness, and taking care of it's people like every other industrialized nation does.
Before you retort, almost all of those government ahve excelent health care, and waiting period far less then most Americans have.
How about instead of running scared, you read the proposals and address specific concerns with the proposal?
You may think you want less government in Healthcare, trust me you don't.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Oh know, the VA does. You sit in a room, 50 bureaucrats come into a room. Once they decide your not over 65 and they can't just put a bullet in your head, they steal your wallet and then then goose step out of the room to go kill Jews.
Well, that's what some people seem to believe.
I wish people would actually read the proposals and discussed specific issues within the proposal.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Welcome to universal healthcare. Don't worry, you too will soon be able to get the news of your imminent death via phone, email, or text message.
Also, I hope you like vitamin M (that is, Motrin).
You forgot Tricare, which is either single payer or socialized depending on the location.
As a family caretaker of a U.S. Veteran (Vietnam and Iraq Round 1) who passed away from ALS, while under the care of the VA - I have to say that they really busted their butts to make sure he had all the assistance and medical care possible. They even called intermittently with questions about his service history to attempt to find out WHY so many people in his situation developed ALS.
I have to say, for all the problems people have had with the VA they took care of Jim. He had everything from his medications to a IPAP, oxygen, even a hospital bed delivered and set up here at the house.
Given the extremely bizarre nature of the disease, and that no-one clearly understands its causes, they did a damn fine job of trying to figure out what was wrong and making sure he had ample medical care.
meh
That's a nice straw man you have there. Did you make it yourself?
Virginia is for lovers. EVE is for griefers.
But I shouldn't blame them. They are simply following the "guidlines" the politicians produced, to ensure "fairness".
I don't believe that. CNN's article quotes the letter as saying "According to the records of the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA), you have a diagnosis of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS) ... This letter tells you about VA disability compensation benefits that may be available to you."
That wording implies the letter is an explanation of benefits, not a notification of diagnosis. I'm sure the intended recipients were people who had already received the diganosis in person from their doctor.
The only people for whom this would have been the first mention of the diagnosis for would be the ones who received it in error.
I much prefer corporate bureaucracy. It's so transparent. This would never happen with private insurance.
This stupendously bad government health care system only has to serve 23,000,000 patients and it managed to screw up 1200 whole notifications. What self respecting corporate entity would tolerate a 0.00521% failure rate. You're much better off with a private system where mistakes never happen and would certainly be widely publicized if they did.
I don't understand. How is offering vets free healthcare IN ADDITION to the healthcare options available to every other American citizen anything at all like "shooting veterans dead on the white house lawn?"
Having another option, even if its not ideal, seems like a good thing to me.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
Given your attitude I expect you to return any social security payments you receive and decline any medicare coverage.
If that offer includes returning all social security and medicare taxes I've paid, then where do I sign? I'd even be willing to forgo getting interest on it in exchange for the chance to opt-out. I'd prefer to have my money in a retirement plan that doesn't look like Bernard Madoff's business structure.
Redundancy is good And also good.
Personally I was expecting "@fractoid ur dyin lol brain cancer ftl"
Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
Oh, really? This is a government bureaucracy we're talking about.
THIS is what we'd ALL get if Obama and the Dems win their attempt to have a government takeover of health care.
Well, everyone who chose the public option. Which, at least to begin with, would mostly be people who have no healthcare at all right now. Healthcare with occasional administrative errors is probably going to save more lives than no care AT ALL.
Besides which, I've had bad lab results and mistaken reports from private healthcare, too. Even large-scale errors. And it's certainly not simply healthcare that has this happen...I've gotten notices from utilities that my service was going to be cut off when I'd paid my bill, or that my credit card was stolen when it wasn't, or that I was denied for something when I was approved. It does happen, and it happens at least as often in private business as in government.
Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
If you have no income, they can't charge against your taxes.
If you have an income, you can pay out-of-pocket for private coverage, or you can pay (a lot less) for public coverage.
Sounds like people have choices to me.
Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
So, the VA can't afford cleaning staff, IHS can't afford doctors, and Medicare can't afford accounts payable staff?
And somehow, this is going to be solved by spending LESS gov't money on healthcare?
Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
Actually, there are precisely zero "single payer" health care systems in the US, since the existence of more than one payer in the same jurisdiction means you don't have a singly payer system, and there are, in the US, the three systems you mention, the joint federal/state Medicaid program, and thousands of ther payers, meaning that none of those payers is a "single payer" system.
Where is the choice of not spending the money in the first place? Or just getting catastrophic insurance with a high deductible? Do I need to go broke and live like a pauper in order to have that choice? It's pretty sad when I have to ruin my life just to be free to make my own choices.
Anyways, the point wasn't about choices, it was about whether or not it is voluntary. It isn't by any reasonable definition of the word.
Where is the choice of not spending the money in the first place?
You'd like to include an option to forgo medical care completely?
Because, see, here's the problem: you might choose not to pay for any sort of insurance. But, when you're dying, you'll probably still go to the hospital. You may rack up more medical bills than your house is worth. You may or may not be employed at the time, or have assets sufficient to cover what you owe. Guess who pays, then?
It's like car insurance. If there was some way to prove that you had the means to cover up to, say, $1 million in expenses, then it'd make sense to let people completely forgo coverage. But very few people fall into that category, and most of *them* will have private insurance anyway. So, we require people to be insured to drive. You can choose not to drive, and you can choose not to go to the hospital when you're bleeding to death or can't breathe or whatever. But if you're going to go to the hospital, then yeah, I think it's fair to insist you have coverage.
I have no problem with it being catastrophic coverage, either. I haven't read the current proposals, so I don't know for sure that that's not an option. Care to apply a citation?
Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
Might does not equal will. You are acting as if the act already happened in which it didn't and isn't likely to.
Actually, in my state, you only need a $30,000 bond on file with the state to avoid the car insurance law. However, that moot because driving a car, while not very practice not to, is and privileged elective that people choose to do. However, living and being a citizen of the US is absolutely not an elective people choose to do. You cannot equat making a choice about a car with the right to live unmolested by idiots. I'm actually surprised your even dumb enough to make the comparison. I mean how is requiring people to have insurance to drive a 2000 plus pound vehicle even remotely similar to requiring people to buy insurance just to fucking live? Damn that's foolish of you to even suggest. But here is the kicker, the people who do not purchase the insurance end up in jail on guess what, your damn dime anyways.
How in the hell can you be supporting the current health plans when you don't even know what is in the bills? Shouldn't you remotely be educated on this before even commenting? Both the current bills prescribe a minimum set of coverage that will preclude catastrophic insurance. In other words, you have to get more then catastrophic coverage in order not to be fined by the government or imprisoned.
The actually experts aren't concerned about medicare and dont believe it will eat the federal budget. That's republican Neo Con propaganda. The same propaganda that said it would ahve devoured the budget 20 years ago. Every ten year, they say it will devour the budget in ten years.
The numbers actually come from the GAO (Government Accountability Office), which I wouldn't consider a republican propaganda machine. It's likely they are being conservative (ala similar calculations concerning Social Security), but that doesn't negate the fact that the costs of the medical industry are spiraling out of control.
How Veterans' Hospitals Became the Best in Health Care
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
How Veterans' Hospitals Became the Best in Health Care
I'll not go through the rest of your FUD point-by-point, but I'll just pick on this one:
What do you think your private insurance does? Just pay whatever is asked? Does the phrase "negotiated rate" ring a bell?
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
Sen. Mitch McConnell wrote me back and said some things you might like.. very close to your concerns.
"... So while both parties recognize that serious reform of our health care system is needed, we must also recognize the importance of getting it right. Americans want reform. The question is what kind of reform. Reform is necessary, but not all so-called reforms are necessarily good. Taking the wrong course would leave millions of Americans worse off by taking away coverage they already have and like." and so on. It was a good letter!
But he isn't going to vote for a giant bill that he doesn't even have time to read through. Even though the reform needs to happen, he wants it to be done right.. and done right the first time.
He realizes that most of the state wants/needs better healthcare. By that i don't mean the level of care available.. i mean fixing the costs and so much more. If your pre-existing conditions can't carry over to a new provider.. you are effectively stuck with your current one. Locked in.. no options. Anyways, i'll stop before this becomes a rant :)
http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
I wish everyone in congress would grow a pair of balls, decide to use some critical thinking skills for once, and follow his lead. They are going overboard with is in the current bills, you have senators and administration officials blatantly lying and saying the legislation doesn't do what is written down in it and the worse part about it is that they are getting a free pass.
There is so much that can be done to competently fix the current system that it's pretty much negligent of congress not to address it first. I'm probably starting to rant a little too. But ending ineligibility over preexisting conditions, following the medicare/Medicaid diagnostic rules and treatment allowances with both of those programs taking the lead on new treatment evaluation and a semi yearly update for new and promising treatment, and an automatic buy-in with a contract term of 5 or 10 years for catastrophic illnesses with the uninsured could most likely cure most of the so called issues.
Despite the above being modded funny, I thought it was 'veterinarians' too. Didn't know what 'VA' was either (the only thing that sprung to mind was the postal abbreviation for Virginia. So the headline confused the hell out of me until I read the summary ;)
I don't think they use the word 'vets' as a common abbreviation for retired servicemen outside of North America. At least where I live, we might occasionally refer to them as 'war veterans', but that would never get abbreviated. For me, "vet" = someone that treats animals :)
Living in a place that has universal health care, it utterly astonishes me that anyone honestly would prefer no health care, to affordable (but not free) health care. Seriously? You actually want to completely forgo health cover to save a few bucks? I always knew that Americans were very individualistic and liked freedom of choice in things, but that seems like one choice that is not very wise to make. This isn't a troll or intending to flame ... I guess I just do not understand the mindset that leads to this opinion.
I know some people think they are very healthy. But you never know. Things like cancer can spring up in otherwise healthy individuals for no apparent reason. Not to mention you might get hit by a bus tomorrow. And then you will be glad that, even if you are poor, there is a public health system that will pay for your treatment. Hell, I'm young (26), fit (I run 4km a day and don't overeat) and fairly healthy overall. But I am still OK with paying the 1.5% extra income tax that I do in my country to pay for the universal healthcare system.
The problem is that without the freedom to fail, you do not have the freedom to succeed.
As for me, I have catastrophic insurance that will cover cancer, broken bones and so on. Under the new legislation, this is not enough. If I decide I want to turn my health insurance into a boat payment or a better car payment, I currently have that freedom. With the new legislation, I do not. The problem isn't affordable health care, it's being forced to participate. Right now I have freedoms that will not exist once this legislation as it stands passes. There is also the problem of sub par care that will exist afterwords.
I'm either free or I am not free. Forcing something on me simply because I am alive is not freedom. It's a lack of freedom I'm not willing to stand for.
Just wait until that number is "millions" under nationalized healthcare.
I don't understand. How is offering vets free healthcare IN ADDITION to the healthcare options available to every other American citizen anything at all like "shooting veterans dead on the white house lawn?"
If they were actually getting the health care, I would agree. Many to most of them are not getting the care they require.
As for shooting veterans dead on the white house lawn, perhaps you should study your history. That incident was about soldiers who came back from WWI and couldn't afford to exist trying to get monies promised them, albeit ahead of schedule, so that they could survive, and being shot dead in a park across from the White House for their troubles. Roosevelt signed them up to work on his new highway, and during that incident they were considered as slaves; 258 of them were avoidably killed by a hurricane.
Our nation trains young men and women to kill, sends them off to be traumatized in illegal wars, and then neglects them physically and psychologically when they return. Not believing this speaks only to your lack of exposure to the situation.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
You witlessly attempted to avoid answering my question by trying to change the topic. I am not at all impressed. Are you going to attempt to answer my question, or do you concede to my statement that offering free medical service is a good thing the vets should be thankful for?
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.