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Sony and Nintendo Step Up Anti-Piracy Efforts

Posted by Soulskill on from the escalating-arms-race dept.

Edge reports that Sony and Nintendo are both expanding their anti-piracy operations in an effort to reduce piracy rates on the PSP and the DS respectively. Nintendo has hired Neil Boyd, who handled anti-piracy operations for Warner Brothers, to help them demonstrate their "willingness to take action against criminals who are making money out of the infringement of games developers' copyright." Sony has taken a more direct approach, choosing to alter the hardware used in the PSP Go so that things like the Pandora battery can no longer be used to alter the firmware.

12 of 147 comments (clear)

  1. And yet they've given up on Wii piracy by marcansoft · · Score: 4, Informative

    No, really. The've shown that they believe that Wii homebrew == Wii piracy (having attacked generic homebrew almost exclusively, not just piracy tools, and considering that they harassed us when we attempted to notify them of a security issue), and yet it's been over 5 months since the latest security-related update. Somehow I don't get the felling that Nintendo is interested in combating Wii piracy very much (it's not like they've done a whole lot to stop modchips either).

    1. Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy by ookaze · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, really. The've shown that they believe that Wii homebrew == Wii piracy (having attacked generic homebrew almost exclusively, not just piracy tools, and considering that they harassed us when we attempted to notify them of a security issue), and yet it's been over 5 months since the latest security-related update. Somehow I don't get the felling that Nintendo is interested in combating Wii piracy very much (it's not like they've done a whole lot to stop modchips either).

      So somewhat, you not getting the feeling that Nintendo is interested in combating piracy equates to "They've given up on Wii piracy"? Seriously?
      Looks like complete BS to me.
      The fact is that the only thing separating the homebrew tools from piracy tools is what the user deem moral or not. The exact same tools used for homebrew are used for piracy.

      I use the homebrew tools, and really, if it wasn't for the fact that my play time on a game is not registered in the Wii when I use them, I would always use the homebrew tools to play my games, that I have all ripped, just in case. And you can see how tiny of an argument I have already to not use these tools (but they're still installed).
      Once someone starts continuously using the homebrew tools, all hell breaks loose, as they will be more and more tempted to download some games "just to see".
      The sole thing preventing me from downloading some games and then play them on the Wii is in my head. If I didn't have enough money or if I played lots of games all the time, I guarantee I would have downloaded lots of games already.

      So to me it's no wonder that for Nintendo, Wii homebrew == Wii piracy because that's exactly what it is. You can't scan people's heads to make a difference between pirates and legitimate homebrew users. And I'm sure there are far more pirates than homebrew users.
      If Nintendo didn't put region lock in their console, I wouldn't even have considered homebrew. This is one of their mistake. That's the sole thing that pushed me to install homebrew.

      Then again, modchipping your console is on another level entirely, and so I understand that they don't get out of their way to stop these people, because the return on investment is far too ridiculous.

      Even installing homebrew is not for the faint of heart, and most people don't even understand how all of that work and don't care. I'm even sure that most people installing homebrew on their console don't understand at all what they're doing, which is evidenced by all the video tutorials I've seen people made just to install homebrew.

      All of this is far more difficult than buying a flash card for the Nintendo DS.

    2. Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy by marcansoft · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Piracy" is copyright infringement only to most people.

    3. Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy by psm321 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Nintendo states on warioworld.com that it categorically declines to deal with students, hobbyists, and microISVs: one needs a dedicated office and a track record of published titles. So for which platform should students and hobbyists be building a portfolio to start a company? Most PC monitors are just too small for four people.

      Xbox 360. Seriously, I don't really like Microsoft, and I don't really like xbox (or playstation for that matter) games in general (i tend to like more playful games, http://www.ukresistance.co.uk/2005/11/blue-sky-in-games-campaign-launched.html)

      But, one thing Microsoft is good about with the 360/xbox live is allowing independent content (or at least so I hear). I've seen other people trying out games from the market with lots of interesting gameplay concepts that you would probably not see in a mainstream game

    4. Re:And yet they've given up on Wii piracy by marcansoft · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Except for the fact that you have to use these tools to even be able to launch any homebrew application.
      The fact is that you can't run any homebrew on the Wii without first taking the risks you're talking about.

      You do NOT need to take those risks just to run homebrew, and running homebrew is pretty much completely safe these days (there are always some theoretical risks risks, of course, but the practical incidence of issues is just about zero). If you disagree, please point me to a single report of someone having bricked their console by using our official installer (people who have previously applied warez hacks need not apply). Again, you're confusing the tools you need to just run applications (that is, Bannerbomb at a minimum, and then The Homebrew Channel if you want convenience) with the tools used to pirate games: not just the loaders - those are safe - but the system software (IOS) hacks and the extremely nasty exploits used to install them (because the people who write these things aren't real reverse engineers and don't know any better).

      Piracy tools are extremely dangerous for two reasons: 1) you need to fundamentally patch the Wii software to run pirate games (so it'll read game data from another source), and 2) the people behind them are often highly incompetent. As a result, you get things like cIOScorp, which replaces every single version of IOS with a single patched version. That's the equivalent of taking a whole bunch of shared object sonames for a single library (each with different ABI quirks) and replacing them all with a single, patched version. Where this shared object is as critical as the C library.

      Besides the actual insane hacks they use, their installers are almost universally crappy. They don't check return codes, so often they'll uninstall some critical piece of system software, then fail to install it again. Running any piracy tools while your internal storage is near full is almost a guaranteed recipe for a permanent brick. I also know this because I make a device to help repair issues generally caused by using out-of-region games and people often ask me if they can use it to repair their consoles after one of these accidents (the answer, invariably, is to send the Wii to Nintendo and pay their normal repair fee). I've had dozens and dozens of people tell me personally about having bricked their Wiis with piracy software, and none at all who have had any issues installing homebrew using our installer.

      This despite the fact that I could no longer play my foreign games (like No More Heroes with blood instead of coins) if homebrew would no longer work.

      You don't need nasty hacks to play imports. Playing imports with homebrew is perfectly safe, since it only involves a replacement game loader that doesn't check for the region (it's something optional, not enforced by the IOS security software). This is totally safe (and useless to warez games). The critical difference is that warez game loaders need to patch IOS so it can at game runtime continue to load data from whatever media the game is stored on. Region-free loaders are just disc loaders, you can write one in a couple hundred lines of code using the stock Wii software and without the need for any hacks beyond running PowerPC code. You don't even need to touch a single file on NAND - you could run a region-free disc loader from Bannerbomb, which is basically provably safe because it doesn't touch persistent storage. This is completely different from piracy tools, all of which need to permanently alter system software one way or another.

      To debunk your specific claims:

      It has been streamlined, but you're basically modifying the Wii's firmware, which is were the risk of bricking your console comes from.

      The Homebrew Channel is an _installable_ application that makes _zero_ changes to your firmware. It installs itself exactly as a WiiWare channel would. Its installer perfor

  2. Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it! by omgarthas · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I know like 7 or 8 people (friends, friends of friends, etc) with the Nintendo DS and NONE, I repeat, NONE of them, has a single original game. Why so? Because using downloaded games for NDS is ridiculous easy, that even the girls who don't even know to burn a CD, know copy&paste, and that's pretty much it to play "pirated" games on the NDS...

    ps: Here, NDS flash cartridges are even sold at the groceries...

  3. Totally Retarded by EdIII · · Score: 3, Interesting

    in every way.......

    Sony produced the PSP Go for a very specific market, whether they understood it or not. People buying that are not interested in stupid fucking "snackables". Dear God, they make it sound like something a 2nd grader would eat at lunch.

    The PSP Go is for people that *already* understand how to take existing UMD's in their collection and convert them and play them on the PSP. The attraction of the Go model is more memory, less power consumption (UMDless), and a smaller form factor, and possibly longer battery life.

    Their attempt to cripple the unit so that you cannot play UMD backups, while being blatantly offensive towards supporters of Fair Use, just totally destroyed their *real* market for the product.

    I am actually interested in the PSP Go. ONLY IF I CAN PLAY MY UMD BACKUPS. If not, then STFU Sony and you don't get my money.

    Total Morons.

    P.S - Yes... it can be used for pirated ISOs as well as Fair Use ISOs, but that does not make my point any less valid about their market does it?

    1. Re:Totally Retarded by EdIII · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh I forgot, it's not stealing so you must be right.

      You did forget. It is not stealing, either way.

      If I make a backup copy of a UMD game I purchased, it can never be anything remotely resembling theft. That falls under Fair Use which is not some bullshit argument that "pirates" throw up like a shield. Fair Use is my right, as in, legal entitlement. Of course, Fair Use is really just a legal test for copyright infringement, but the whole point is that I am just protecting rights that I already obtained by financially compensating the copyright holder in return for rights granted to the content.

      No copyright holder should ever be able to claim that I don't have the rights to make copy after copy in my home so that I can enjoy their works forever (my lifetime, and those of my heirs that will inherit those rights). The very concept that I should be limited is offensive, bullshit, immoral, and legally retarded.

      There is absolutely nothing wrong with making and playing a UMD backup.

      Now, as for actually "pirating" the UMD's, that is not theft either. I'm sorry, that so many people out there just cannot get their minds around that. It is not about right and wrong. Promoting those arguments is not supporting piracy either. It is a simple fact that "piracy" is copyright infringement, and that is a matter for civil courts. That is the way it was set up, and it is the way it should be, and that is the way it is now. The act of theft must involve something physical. You cannot steal intellectual property. Not unless, you alter the very fabric of the Universe itself and somehow make the color Purple taste like an Orange. Intellectual Property is a TEMPORARY legal entitlement granted to you by the "State". It is not tangible. How on Earth could I steal that? I can't because it is impossible. The only thing I can do is to perform the act of infringement upon the rights granted to you the State. Nothing more, Nothing less. That does not require the Gestapo busting down doors as if these people are raping children.

      Once again, none of those argument means that I support so-called "Piracy". I have stated before, and I will state again, I support compensating the artists, developers, etc. that make the games I enjoy. I own over 40 UMD titles, and ALL of them are neatly kept in their packages on a book-shelf having only been placed in a PSP a single time. I exclusively play my PSP titles via a PSP with a custom operating system and 8 gig memory stick holding the ISO images.

      Really? Sony makes and markets a product for people stealing their games?

      Yes, really. Absolutely. I said, "whether they knew it or not". "Snackables" is the biggest bullshit I have ever seen. First time customers looking at the PSP Go will realize rather quickly that ALL of the UMD titles at Wall-Mart, Target, etc. CANNOT BE PLAYED. So where the heck do they get their content? Snackables? Mofo Pleeeeease.

      When it comes to a choice between a brand new product with ZERO legacy support for hundreds of existing titles, and an existing proven product with support for hundreds of games (and far more user satisfaction with custom homebrew) I think the choice becomes pretty simple.

      Now what about existing PSP users? The vast majority have to be already using custom operating systems and UMDless methods of play.

      It does not matter where you approach this. Sony created a product that has a primary appeal to the people that already play UMD backups, pirated or not.

      So yes.... Sony made a PSP uniquely targeted to the so-called Pirates. I agree, they did not probably intend to do that at all. Given the complete sociopathic retards that run the joint (rootkit), I absolutely believe they have such a complete disconnect with their customers that they really really thought the PSN network and snackables would be enough.

      Like I said, Totally Retarded.

  4. Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it! by EdIII · · Score: 4, Informative

    so long as they don't adopt strategies that interfere with legitimate purchasers.

    It's far more likely that Superman and Wonder Woman will actually become real, eliminate the Taliban, deliver Osama Bin Laden to the White House steps, and then top it off with a Sex Tape. Ohhh, and the Wonder Twins get caught doing each other in Central Park.

    NONE of the console manufacturers have even a measurable amount of respect for Fair Use. NONE. As far as they are concerned, they own the hardware 100% and should be able to 100% control every single one of your actions with their product as if they are in the room holding your hand. That game you bought gets a little too scratched? That cart get dropped in the pool? Well FUCK YOU. Buy another.

    I feel you about what they are going through. It's just wishful thinking they are going to try to find a middle ground. They are just as extreme and inflexible as hard core pirates who will never compensate anyone for any intellectual property whatsoever.

    It might as well be religious fundamentalism. Your reasonable position has no place here.

  5. Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it! by dunezone · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I wont say this will kill the DS but, when the Dreamcast was around and after a few people figured out how to run debug mode the Dreamcast began its down fall. It was so easy to pirate a game, all you needed was the Dreamcast boot disk which was found everywhere online, and a BIN file for the game which could be downloaded easily, the worst part was if you were on dial-up or not cause this was 1999/2000 and broadband wasn't readily available.

    Hell, eventually they managed to make all pirated game self-loading and because the Dreamcast used a proprietary disk format that could hold more then 750mb, some people managed to remove content from the game to fit it on a regular CD. Thus making the GD-Rom's piracy measure of going past the 750mb useless.

    I read a post-mortem article from one of the leads at SEGA after support was dropped. They took a gamble with the Dreamcast and knew they had to reach a certain number of units sold both in games and in systems to be able to compete with the Playstation 2. They never officially blamed piracy but they said it definitely hurt them, especially in the last six months before the PS2 arrived.

    In my opinion the arrival of the PS2 didn't kill the Dreamcast, piracy did.

  6. Their strategy goes the wrong way... by Ranma-sensei · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...because Sony and Nintendo will just be annoying us homebrew users. Indiscriminately criminalising your customers will not make the "bad guys" go away - they'll just multiply!

    The real problem is that the industry - and that's not just Sony and Big N - still keeps ignoring is pricing. Maybe you gotta stop labeling crap the same as diamonds. (and yeah, I know Third Parties don't get a say in this!)

    I think a general drop in prices is called for - and maybe the dropping of the belief that "Visuals are Everything".

    --
    Non-supporter of Online Activation and any other draconian DRM
  7. Re:Oh please nintendo don't do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    How come the arrival of super-easy piracy for the PS2 (Available shortly after V2 arrived on the market, so a matter of months) didn't kill it?

    Or the fact that pirating a game for the XBOX (also available mere months after XBOX's existence in the market) meant faster load times and easier game selection?

    And how come the Gamecube lagged behind both, despite that "quality" piracy wasn't available until several years after its launch?

    Or the PS3 lagging behind, despite no widespread piracy? Or the XBOX 360 surpassing it despite simple-as-a-flash piracy? Or the Wii also surpassing it with also rather simple pirate mods?

    Your argument is backwards. Pirateable consoles have always been the winners. Look at the NES, they didn't just make 1,000,000-in-1 carts and do away with the lockout chip, they pirated the ENTIRE SYSTEM!

    Dreamcast died because of a lack of marketing and availability. I never even saw one in my entire life, and I own almost all consoles from most all generations. It's the 3D0 of the modern world.