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Judge Won't Lower $5M Bail For Jailed SF IT Admin
snydeq writes "San Francisco County Judge Charles Haines has denied Terry Childs' motion to reduce his $5 million bail, alluding to 'public security concerns,' according to Richard Shikman, who is representing Childs in court. The ruling comes in the wake of a recent decision to drop three of the four changes that have been levied against Childs, who has spent the past 14 months in jail. The fourth charge — that Childs violated a California statute regarding illegal denial of service for the San Francisco FiberWAN — has been called into question by those closely monitoring the case. As a point of comparison, the San Francisco Felony Bail Schedule lists a $1 million bail for the most serious crimes, such as sexual assault of a child, aggravated arson, or kidnapping for ransom. Prosecutors have argued that the bail is appropriate because, if released, Childs could cause damage to San Francisco's network."
Childs could cause damage to San Francisco's network.
But, but... think of the children
He's a danger to their network only if no one has yet changed the passwords on the routers and other equipment.
Truth, Justice. Or the American Way.
Anybody who knows about computers has to be kept away from them, else they might cast spells on the rest of us.
maybe he should get his money's worth and go sexually assault five children then...
> Prosecutors have argued that the bail is appropriate because, if released, Childs could cause damage to San Francisco's network.
It sounds like they have zero confidence in whoever is now in charge of securing their network.
1 in 4 Maine children in struggle with hunger.
The incompetence of the legal system has no lower bound.
Since I can't mod you down, I'll just note that they've now had over a year to change the passwords and otherwise secure the allegedly compromised LAN.
I don't think the judge understands the nature of network security, which is understandable since he isn't an IT guy......but no doubt the prosecuting attorney was pushing to distort the issue to make him look as dangerous as possible. What if he is not guilty, are they still going to keep him in jail because he might be dangerous? Furthermore, if he DOES damage the network, can't they just charge him for that crime at that time? It's not like he can cause irreparable damage, as murdering someone might.
One thing I don't understand is why this guy doesn't exercise his right to a speedy trial. He's already been punished enough considering all the evidence I've seen suggests he is innocent. Maybe he is getting some kind of zen experience living in jail and he actually likes it or something. From what I've heard from some sysadmins, living in jail can't be much worse than that job.
Qxe4
You are right, any nutso can get a sniper rifle, case full of ammo, and take out half a campus from the church tower. It's the really dangerous folk, like the ones who haven't had access to your network in the past year (which you somehow haven't secured on your own because you are too fucking stupid) that are the real danger to society at large.
Here's a tip for the Judge, if there is still something out there on SF's network that Childs actually could manipulate with greater access or affect than a normal citizen, then the folk who should be in jail are the ones who cleaned up the mess.
Prosecutors have argued that the bail is appropriate because, if released, Childs could cause damage to San Francisco's network.
So if the 4th charge is dropped and he is freed, can they keep him jailed? He could, at that point, still cause the same damage that he can now.
But then I realized the cable was blue, so I only gave it one star. I hate blue.
I think the problem is they know he's not going to be convicted of anything in the end. So the judge is trying to send a message to people who might be inclined to do the same thing.
"We can get you. We don't need to actually convict you, either. We can get you anyway."
Doesn't this guy have a sixth amendment right to a speedy trial?
Besides (and Google may have led me the wrong CA statute) but it look like the penalty for the remaining charge could be as little as a $5,000 fine. It also seems to have an out:
"Subdivision (c) does not apply to punish any acts which are committed by a person within the scope of his or her lawful employment. For purposes of this section, a person acts within the scope of his or her employment when he or she performs acts which are reasonably necessary to the performance of his or her work assignment."
When I was a corporate IT guy (about 3 years in the middle of about 16 years as a consultant), I took responsibility over a large part of the network in a multi facility health care business. This wasn't life or death stuff, but network outages did cause problems with appointments and general "face" of the corporation. When I came on board, the network was down a lot. No change control, no "chief" in charge of the network, and about 9 people mucking with stuff constantly.
I put my job on the line, in exchange for FULL control of that system (It was a 85 server Netware + Groupwise environment). The first thing I did was take *everyone's* admin away, removed "admin" from supervisory rights to the tree. I then doled out the appropriate levels of access to the security team (read new users, password resetters), put in a hidden OU with a tree supervisor in it and then wrote the "master" admin/login information down. Lightly, in pencil. Folded it up, put it in an envelope with a tamper seal, that went into another tamper evident envelope and that went into the safe. Every month or two I changed the password and replaced the envelope.
That was in case I died, they could easily get in. That is what Terry should have done. Then it wouldn't have come to this - he might have gotten sacked, and/or lost control over what he considered to be his "creation" -- but he wouldn't be rotting in jail....
= Grow a brain...
While it seems the prosecutors in this case are overreacting (why's this even a criminal case?), what I find curious is that there was no scheme to retrieve the passwords if Childs were to pass away accidentally (no HBB protection). Passwords written on paper in a safe, safety deposit box or similar, or the passphrase to Password Safe written down somewhere secure.
It's pretty stupid to have to physically access all the routers to reset passwords in the event that the network admin dies or quits in fury. Just write the procedure into the admin's job description.
testing 1 2 3
Maybe I don't remember HS Civic's very well but I thought the point of bail was ONLY to prevent flight, not that it had been redefined to be large as a result of danger the innocent (until proved otherwise) person poses. He's being jailed not because he's a flight risk but because of political posturing by the DA, that is a serious miscarriage of justice. I don't have a lot of sympathy for the guy but bail is clearly being misused here.
it's not at all inconceivable that Childs could cause damage to that network if he chose to do so.
You are correct, of course. Childs should be immediately lobotomized, or if the procedure appears to be unreliable then he should be just killed. He knows too much and can never be released. His possible future crime must be prevented at any cost. Same applies to all future sysadmins of SF - once they learn the network (a few weeks on the job, perhaps) they will have to be destroyed.
This whole thing has seemed overblown from the get go to me. I thought it had been cleared up a while back ..obviously not. My guess is that he stepped on some politician's/power broker's toes somehow, and "they" are punishing him this way; it's a classic corrupt government gambit. Vindictive state and local politicos have a lot of ways to screw people who lack friends in high places. Wonder what the poor bastard did, refuse to help some honcho spy on or frame someone?.
If you want your life to be different, live it differently.
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Judge needs to be removed and disbarred.
The pervert/sickos they just caught in SF had their bail set at $500,000 each
for imprisoning and raping kids for 20 years
10% of what this admins bail is set at
good to see the USA court has its priorities set
raping kids is only 10% of the risk to society than this guy?
it's not at all inconceivable that Childs could cause damage to that network if he chose to do so.
It's not at all inconceivable that the average slashdot reader could damage the network if he chose to do so (with some basic research + social engineering, to gather some general info).
I agree with a bit of what you've said, but I totally disagree with the last two sentence in your post... and since you weren't there how would you know?
So what, you think this man is sitting in jail all of this time and wouldn't hand the password over to someone *just to be a dick*?
It is true that every place has politics, and that you have to be mindful of them, and sometimes the most technically gifted among us seem to (at times, but not everyone and not always) be short of the political and "working well with others" side of things, but none of that means he was all in the wrong, or that there isn't more to the story, or that the people who actually treated this like a pissing match and blew it all out of proportion aren't the ones who are really in the wrong here. Maybe it could have been handled differently, but maybe not....
Just because in a similar circumstance you or many other people might back down, doesn't mean he was wrong....I think he thought he was absolutely doing what was right and what was in the best interests of the city, I think that there were some things going on that shouldn't have been and he took a principled stand ..... The way he has been treated in court, the fact that 3 of the 4 changes have been dropped and the remaining charge is completely dubious and he *STILL* is being held with 5M bail tells me that something isn't right here...Even if he DID act like a total asshole (which I tend to think is not the case), that bail is still completely inappropriate.
I really don't think he'll have a hard time getting work after this. It's possible he won't be able to work for a municipality or certain corporations, but so what...
House arrest, and GPS monitor. Any damage to their network can easily be traced to an IP address, which if he can't move with freedom, makes it pretty easy to identify if it came from his computer. (I'm assuming they can't restrict his access to computer.) If he does, charge him with another crime. If he were to attack the network under such conditions, he'd be demonstrating his utter desire for being raped in prison, as I can't think of any other sane reason why he'd do it. Only reason bond should be denied is flight risk or a risk to further harm against a human victim/witness.
The best thing about a boolean is even if you are wrong, you are only off by a bit.
Phillip Garrido is only being held on $1 million bail. Which one do you think can do more damage if released, Childs or Garrido? If you answered "Childs", I would insist your priorities are seriously fucked up.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Since when is behaving like a raging asshole a crime?
Office politics can get you fired. They can't get you locked up.
I am officially gone from
... when he has to register as a Childs offender.
Anybody want a peanut?
Someone send over 63 pirated songs then.
Is there anything that can be done for him?
As a SysAd and citizen I find this case to be disturbing. I don't know if visiting him in jail would be helpful.
Do they even let one have cookies in there? Cookies may not help him or his case, but cookies can taste good.
20 characters max for the password? How will I use my favorite poems as passwords?
he could even claim he's still an employee and due back wages. The original fight was because he was an ass to a new woman manager and she walked to her boss and claimed "sex harassment". The manager tried to fire him without following city process in the first place... and didn't follow legal process to get the passwords in the second place... he could probably go back to the city worker's union and actually win his job back for managerial misconduct if charges don't stick!!!! After all he hasn't even had 3 officially written strikes yet!!!
He may be an ass, but he's been smart enough to follow the City's work rules to the letter.... it's the management that's skipping steps in the written HR process.
Which requires them to know what all of the equipment is, and potentially all of the software installed in all of it. Information for which Childs was supposed to be the source.
I'm not saying that the $5 million bail is right, but it's not at all inconceivable that Childs could cause damage to that network if he chose to do so.
Childs should not be the "source" of knowledge on their equipment. Their internal inventory and documentation policies are the source for that information. Childs designed and maintained the network, he did document it, even going so far as to Copyright the network design. Childs even followed policy when he refused to disclose his password to members of the San Francisco Police Department, representatives from HR, and an unknown group of people on the phone.
San Francisco government policy, from http://www.sfgov.org/site/uploadedfiles/dtis/coit/Policies_Forms/CCISDA_security.pdf
"Password Policy"
As such, all County employees (including contractors, vendors, and temporary staff with access to County systems) are responsible for taking the appropriate steps, as outlined below, to select and secure their passwords.
All system-level passwords (e.g., root, enable, NT admin, application administration accounts, etc.) must be changed on at least a monthly basis"
"Do not share County passwords with anyone, including administrative assistants or secretaries.
All passwords are to be treated as sensitive, confidential County information.
Here is a list of things to avoid
-Telling your boss your password.
-Talking about a password in front of others.
-Telling your co-workers your password while on vacation."
This is a corrupt government using its influence over the DA and judicial appointees to persecute Mr. Childs. After this last charge is throw out, Mr. Childs will undoubtedly counter-sue in a different jurisdiction to stay clear of the corruption in the SF government.
An idiot with a backhoe could damage the network. Justice is neither being done nor being seen to be done.
When ordinary citizens break the law, they get punished, often going to jail. When officers of the state violate citizen's constitutional rights, violations that have a much more resounding effect on society, the violations go largely ignored, rarely resulting in penalties, and even rarer that those officers will see any jail time. It is unfair and fucked up, the kind of system the founders wanted to prevent. IMO, if a civil servant (from the bottom to the top) blatantly violates the constitutional rights of a citizen, it should be prosecuted. Of course that will never happen, but one can dream.
On one charge? This looks _very_ fishy. Conditions on bail would certainly include no computer use. I suspect the real motive for the DA is to use incarceration as pressure for some sort of plea bargain. Any bargain, because their case is weak / non-existant. Highly corrupt.
The DA has to pressure, because if he does NOT cave, they're facing a multi-million $ lawsuit for wrongful (or even malicious where less would be protected by privilige) prosecution. This will ruin careers. As it should.
His duty to help them by giving them passwords and other confidential information ALSO ended when his employment contract ended. That's what the law says.
I want to see some solid proof for this. Because I am betting there are residual obligations under his contract - or that his contract was never properly terminated.
I don't see why this is still up. If most of the IT community with any sense of self respect boycotted the entire city, the problem would evaporate within two weeks. Any professional with even an ounce of self respect should be refusing to service any aspect which receives funding, or inherits legal obligations from any portion of the city. They've already demonstrated they're willing to prosecute someone for doing their job and following policy.
I don't care if the guys supervisor told him to hand over the password--his supervisor was not in a position of authority to make such a demand. And even if he *was*, the charges and accusations they leveled demonstrated that they behaved with a callous lack of professional ethics, and abuse of power intended to crush the will of this man, instead of simply punishing him according to the rule of law. The charges were clearly trumped up--so such an extent that even the biased judge had no choice but to throw them out.
Refuse to consult or provide services to anyone associated with the city until they repay Childs and punish those responsible for this abuse of authority. They've already engaged in miscarriage of justice, and it's already painfully clear neither the DA nor the judge will be held accountable.
Bail appeals (using "appeal" loosely) are usually reserved for the very rich, because they are usually a big waste of time. They are a waste of time because the trial judge is invested with a very large dollop of discretion in matters of bail. Here, the big bail doesn't seem to have too much to do with the charge that the defendant is being detained on. It's kind of like holding me on thirty gazillion dollars bail for a driving while license suspended charge because the judge is concerned that I am going to vandalize my neighbor's Rolls Royce.
This case sucks because the poor bastard has to rot in jail while his lawyers are preparing his defense. If he had money, his experts would be done by now and the State would have, long ago, had its back against the wall scrambling to try to put their bullshit case together.
I bet that the County Attorney depended on the City's experts (rather than his own, independent, experts) when he filed charges. That's reasonable, but you'd hope they'd have their own independent experts on board by now. Too bad nobody's Groklawing for the defendant.
Well, tradition for this is to bake him a cake with a file in it.
If that fails, then you and your buddies saddle up your horses and a spare one for him, then pull the window bars out.
Bonus points for shooting up the town marshal's office during the escape.
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
What skilled, knowledgable, trained network administrator would work for them at this point?
Some may be willing to take a crappy job to put food on their kids table... but one that's likely to put you in jail for following their own proceedures?... I wouldn't do that to my kids.
How are they going to hire the new IT dude after this crap? I think some of the would-be applicants are heading for janitorial work so they can at least... not be in jail.
"They confiscated everything, even the stuff we didn't steal!"
"accused city hacker" instead of "the guy who built and maintained san francisco's networks for several years"?
"essentially commandeered the system" instead of "yeah, that was his JOB"?
with the city still trying to politically assassinate this guy, the judicial system still eager to help, and the press still spewing this ignorant garbage to the general public, why isn't the entire IT community out on the streets protesting for this guy?
I understand it completely.
It doesn't change the fact that, of two people accused of committing similar crimes, the one who can raise sufficient money gets to leave jail. The one who can't, stays in jail until the trial is complete. I can think of no moral or ethical reason that should be allowed.
It is incredible that the people responsible for the network today cannot secure the network well enough to keep Childs out and they are allowed to keep their jobs. If they can keep Childs away from the physical equipment, passwords are all that is necessary to lock things down. Do the people in charge have any dignity? It is about time we start publishing the names of the people who are now responsible who cannot secure this network. The fact that he seems to be needed to be kept in jail for the safety of the network proves every word he said about the incompetent people involved. This situation is so bizarre that it is even stranger than my first wife, and that is saying something.
And that's why they can't just let him go and drop the charges. How much would you have to be paid to willingly give up your career, have your name smeared, and be put in jail with criminals for over a year. That is at least what this man is owed, in addition to punitive damages.
While he is awaiting trial and 'not innocent' it is hard to counter-sue. In that interim those involved may have moved to different positions, retire, lose their election, etc. Even if he wins a multi-million dollar countersuit, do you think anyone will be held personally responsible? What needs to happen but won't is that every single person involved in prosecuting him needs to be disbarred, removed from their employ, and after being put in jail for a similar period and slapped with a criminal record, be unable to get a job running the city's street sweepers.