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Doctorow On What Cloud Computing Is Really For

Diabolus Advocatus alerts us to an article Cory Doctorow has up on guardian.co.uk, addressing what cloud computing really means for the average consumer: "The tech press is full of people who want to tell you how completely awesome life is going to be when everything moves to 'the cloud' — that is, when all your important storage, processing and other needs are handled by vast, professionally managed data-centers. Here's something you won't see mentioned, though: the main attraction of the cloud to investors and entrepreneurs is the idea of making money from you, on a recurring, perpetual basis, for something you currently get for a flat rate or for free without having to give up the money or privacy that cloud companies hope to leverage into fortunes."

15 of 348 comments (clear)

  1. I'm not sure I understand by jasonmicron · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've seen "Cloud Computing" around as a buzzword but I never really cared to investigate what it really was.

    I'm assuming it is essentially paying a data center to host my data from my home system? Why in the hell would I even WANT to do that?

    Or did I completely miss the bus? Something I missed?

    1. Re:I'm not sure I understand by ArsonSmith · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's the latest take on thin-client to server connectivity. Why buy a $1500 computer when you can get 100x more power from a $100 thin client and $20 a month. (or what ever)

      The main difference this time is a web browser typically becomes your thin client and the server is actually a massively parallel cluster of servers. Every time you use Google you are using the cloud.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    2. Re:I'm not sure I understand by MathFox · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or did I completely miss the bus? Something I missed?

      You missed the lock in model of being forced to work with the applications that the cloud provider supports.

      --
      extern warranty;
      main()
      {
      (void)warranty;
      }
    3. Re:I'm not sure I understand by ForAllTheFish · · Score: 4, Informative

      Cloud computing is just a little step above web site hosting. Instead of some online space accessible through HTTP, they give you a little more - a virtual machine with an external IP, for example. You get charged for the convenience of not having to: buy hardware, set up a firewall, set up an internet connection, obtain space, obtain electricity. Sometimes it is scalable so you can run exactly as many virtual machines as you need for a particular task, and it's great if you temporarily want some powerful, flexible web hosting.

    4. Re:I'm not sure I understand by Nadaka · · Score: 4, Informative

      "The Cloud" isn't just about hosting data. Its about hosting everything, your data, your applications, your medical records, who you communicate with, what you say, when you say it, where you say it, what you spend money on, what you do with it, what color underwear you are wearing, everything.

      Google mail, google docs, myspace, facebook, amazon ec2 (a service that allows you define an OS image that can be dynamically deployed on any number of VMs or even physical systems, its actually quite useful if you need a highly variable number of servers running at any given time) are all examples of cloud computing.

    5. Re:I'm not sure I understand by drsmithy · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm assuming it is essentially paying a data center to host my data from my home system? Why in the hell would I even WANT to do that?

      Because then it's trivially simple for you (more importantly, for people who aren't at all technologically inclined) to get at it from anywhere.

    6. Re:I'm not sure I understand by Insanity+Defense · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Or did I completely miss the bus? Something I missed? You missed the lock in model of being forced to work with the applications that the cloud provider supports.

      Or did I completely miss the bus? Something I missed?

      You missed the lock in model of being forced to work with the applications that the cloud provider supports.

      Also the bit where your data is locked into whatever file formats the cloud provider has and you will have difficulty maintaining your own back ups and migrating to a different provider if the current one is inadequate or fails.

      Imagine the Outer Limits Control Voice telling you how they control your data and how you use it.

      There is nothing wrong with your computer.

      Do not attempt to install software. We are controlling what you may use and do.

      We will control the file formats.

      We will control the data.

      We control all that you may do with your computer and your data.

      Experience the awe and majesty of paying us for the use of your own data in ways that we strictly control and limit.

    7. Re:I'm not sure I understand by ivan_w · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Do I use gmail ? certainly not ! Ewww !

      And yes.. I do have a single server somewhere I use to handle my e-mail.. and my DNS.. (only thing is I have to hire the service of a registrar to write stuff in the ICANN db.. but I can live with that)

      Do I use Google Docs ? You've got to be kidding right ?

      Do I use collaborative solutions to author documents.. sure.. e-mails, mailing lists (which I can eventually host by myself should it become necessary) and a couple tools I host on the aforementioned server
      Online backup service ? YUCK ! I have a few machines here and there and cross backup (ok.. so it IS Online Backup.. but I *know* were my stuff is located).

      And I don't even have (or want) an iPhone !

      So ! there !

      (well... you weren't actually asking ME the question were you ?)

      --Ivan

  2. Ars Technica Already noted and responeded ... by AlizarinCrimson · · Score: 5, Informative

    Ars Technica has a very nice response to this: http://arst.ch/722

  3. SaaS != Cloud Computing by nweaver · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Doctorow's gripe is NOT about cloud computing, but Software as a Service setups, where the software is externally hosted.

    "Cloud Computing" is a very nebulous term, ranging from online apps in the browser (Google Apps) to high level compute APIs (Map-Reduce etc) to low level VM hosting and storage (Amazon EC2/S3).

    The interesting things, IMO, from the cloud point of view are the compute side, which is a windfall (we used EC2 to great effect with Netalyzr), and the reliability/infrastructure offloading.

    And let's do a puzzle here. Yes, a cheap computer is just that, CHEAP, which implies unreliable. Gmail, for all its griping, has pretty much 99.99% uptime. Does Doctorow realize how much even that level of reliability costs when done in-house?

    --
    Test your net with Netalyzr
  4. Small Monthly Fees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Cloud computing works on the "frog in a pot" principle. Slowly increase the temperature, and the frog doesn't know it's being boiled alive.

    -Don't worry about backup, let us do it, for a small monthly fee.

    -Don't store your data locally, let us do it, for a small monthly fee.

    -Don't worry about software, let us provide it for you, for a small monthly fee.

    -Don't worry about a PC, let us provide one for you, for a small monthly fee.

    Think it won't work? It already does. Look at your cellphone. You don't own it, you don't own any of it's data, you rent it, for a couple of small monthly fees, and some small "pay per use" fees.

    Lets look at the XBOX model. You "own" the hardware, but ultimately, Microsoft gets to decide what you can do with it.

    XBox live is your "small monthly fee". Expect the next version of XBox to be a rental only agreement.

    You get all the "convenience", but none of the service guarantees, security, responsibility, etc.

    They get all your "small monthly fees", and all your personal data.

  5. Well, there are other things, too... by hazydave · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Moving people from their own computing resources to yours is about one fundamental: control. I control my PC in ways that I normally have a great deal of say about (sure, "regular people" may have to hire consultants or expert systems to regain control of their systems, but at least the potential is there).

    The recurring payment model is the modern gold rush... companies are willing to give you "free" satellite STBs, cell phones, etc. in return for knowing they're getting your $50-$100 back on a regular basis. This also moves to an interesting market model. With regular purchases, you probably have to convince me that you're the best for my needs, if I'm a well informed consumer. With contracts, once I've bought in, you need to finr the minimal amount of satisfaction that keep the vast majority of your customers "hooked". So people love and defend their choice of Nikon over Canon, or Sony over Panasonic, for the most part. But everyone complains about their cable company, their cellular provider, etc. And yet, those are the guys making the Big Bucks.

    So it's inevitable that web services will go in that direction, at least some of the time. There's currently little precedent for getting consumers to pay, but "cloud" subscriptions are at the same time being sold to business as an alternative to expensive desktop tools (even when free desktop tools are also available). For some business use, it's not going to be about the money, per se. They might actually prefer a subscription to a lump payment... that makes expenses predictable... the same reason many businesses lease equipment, rather than buy, even though the long-term expense is greater.

    But what they'll really be buying is control. Many companies work hard to keep workers from installing "unapproved" software applications. Move everyone to the cloud, and they lose the ability to customize anything you don't want customized. This is probably the engine that'll push business into the cloud, and get them to pay.

    For consumers, follow the cell/cable model... if you sign up for two years of Bubba Jones' computing services, we'll send you a netbook (running a ChromeOS style OS that puts everything under control of the cloud services, even though some local storage will still be possible). There are enough people unconcerned about "real" desktop computing that this will probably seem like a good deal. Particularly if they're unable to do the real math. Which many won't... ask any iPhone toting friend what they paid for their iPhone.. they'll usually say "$200" or some such. When in fact, they're probably paying a total of something like $2000-$3000 over the course of two years, once you factor in the contract costs. But if it's a slow enough bleed, and you keep them happy enough, folks don't notice.

    --
    -Dave Haynie
  6. Re:evil corporations by internewt · · Score: 5, Informative

    how dare they try to provide a service for people to use and actually charge for it. Perhaps the government should provide 'Universal Cloud Service' to everyone for free. (except of course for the taxes they are charged for it to hide the actual cost)

    They are welcome to provide these services if they want to, this is just an article to explain to those who will listen why cloud computing is pushed so hard. It is a warning to not become dependant on "the cloud" because you and I probably don't know what it'll become, but it is likely that investors are flocking to "the cloud" in the hopes that they can grab control of anything, and then profit from that control. That probably isn't good for the users of the cloud.

    I have pretty much stopped using proprietary software since I noticed how inevitably my interests will conflict with the interests of the proprietary software maker. I will look for open stuff first, and only if there isn't an alternative will I use proprietary stuff, like Google Earth and some games.

    Cloud computing is just proprietary computing by another name. It can still be useful, but the control lies with the cloud owner rather than the user.

    --
    Car analogies break down.
  7. Cloud relies by tepples · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why buy a $1500 computer when you can get 100x more power from a $100 thin client and $20 a month. (or what ever)

    Because ISPs in the United States with a wireless last mile (3G or satellite) still charge on the order of $60 per month for on the order of 5 GB per month. Or because I want to do something and see the result happen without a second of lag.

    Every time you use Google you are using the cloud.

    Which is fine because I am using a service through the network to search for other resources that can be used through the network, and the resources don't need instant response. But at times, I might have no connection to the network, or I might have such a slow connection (either low bandwidth or high latency) that interacting becomes unbearable.

    1. Re:Cloud relies by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Informative

      >>>What does the cost of bandwidth have to do with anything? It doesn't get any cheaper whether you run it with a $1500 PC or a $100 thin client
      >>>

      Here's the math spanning a range from 1998 (when I got my first IBM PC) to 2010 when I'll probably upgrade to a new MS Office: $400 Win98 PC (this is what I spent) + $400 for newer XP-PC + $100 for Microsoft Office 97 used until the end of 2010 + $0 for online since you don't need online to write a letter or do a spreadsheet == $70/year over 13 years

      - $100 thin client bought in 98 (aka "terminal" in 70s technology) + $100 thin client with newer P4-CPU + $100 thin client with newer DualCore CPU (required upgrade else you get blocked, as was the case when I tried Microsoft's online services) + $50 rent for online office software + $10 "you exceeded your download qoota" monthly overage fees == $193/year over 13 years

      I prefer to stick with my current plan.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall