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Shadowed Lunar Craters May Be Coldest Spot In the Solar System

Posted by Soulskill on from the alright-niven-get-cracking dept.

sciencehabit writes "Science reports: 'What's the coldest spot in the solar system? For now, that distinction belongs to permanently shadowed craters near the moon's south pole, according to the first results from the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO) spacecraft announced today at a NASA press conference. Another instrument has returned hints of water ice in some of these cold spots, ... but it also showed signs of water ice in impossibly hot places, too.'"

29 of 108 comments (clear)

  1. Surprise to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    And here I thought it was my exwife.

  2. Really? by Useful+Wheat · · Score: 3, Informative

    Since nobody is going to read it, the coldest temperature is 33K. The reason they care is because they'll probably find a lot of ice there.

    I'm not sure how I feel about this. I was of the understanding that space was on the order of 3K due to the cosmic background radiation. 33K is positively warm compared to this.

    1. Re:Really? by G33kGuy · · Score: 2, Informative

      Space isn't really cold as there isn't anything to be cold. As for tiny particles in space, their temperature would vary greatly depending on their distance from the sun (or other heat source).

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    2. Re:Really? by MartinSchou · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Well, there could be some other reasons for wanting to know.

      If you build a moon base, you could use these spots for some interesting stuff. Like infra-red observatories, which I think need to have a cold sensor to increase sensitivity.

      Additionally 33 Kelvin is low enough that you can use at least one iron based superconductor for energy storage. That way you can have huge arrays of solar panels or similar, and just dump surplus energy into a superconducting magnetic energy storage.

      The superconductors would also give you essentially free cooling for particle accelerators, but I've no idea how large those craters are, nor if that'd even be useful.

    3. Re:Really? by quercus.aeternam · · Score: 3, Interesting

      A look at the energy storage option was very interesting - One side effect is the generation of an extremely large magnetic field:

      "The biggest concern with SMES, beyond possible accidents such as a break in the containment of liquid nitrogen, is the very large magnetic fields that would be created by a commercial installation, which would dwarf the magnetic field of the Earth."

      If this is the case, even a small installation could be extremely good from a health standpoint, especially in the context of colonization. Though they would still be without the protective effects of the atmosphere, they would probably be protected from a significant amount of radiation.

    4. Re:Really? by rm999 · · Score: 2, Informative

      See http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-temperature-in-space.htm

      It says that space is ridiculously empty *on average*, so a molecule floating around in the middle of nowhere probably has virtually no energy (except the cosmic background radiation). This is why the average temperature of space is so low.

      On the other hand, a molecule in our solar system gets hit by all sorts of radiation if it had direct line of sight with the sun, heating it to >40 kelvin.

    5. Re:Really? by jamstar7 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Space is just freaking cold. 3k is 3degrees Kelvin, and its like -275 F. Really cold.

      Actually, it's more on the order of -425F. -273C is Absolute Zero, IIRC. And yeah, that's definitely colder than a mother in law's kiss.

      --
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    6. Re:Really? by dkleinsc · · Score: 2, Funny

      Are you saying Khan Noonien Singh was wrong when he told Kirk that "It is very cold in space"?

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    7. Re:Really? by IWannaBeAnAC · · Score: 2, Informative

      The 3K temperature comes from the background radiation in `empty' space (mostly photons, but longer wavelengths than visible light). If you are close to a star like the sun, you clearly get a lot more radiating heat than that. Satelites, for example, have heat shields to protect them from getting too hot and melting. Similarly, the surface of the moon that is in direct sunlight gets quite warm, about 75 degrees Fahrenheit (about 125 degrees C, so above the boiling point of water, if it was at standard pressure).

    8. Re:Really? by cratermoon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      125 degrees C is indeed above the boiling point of water at 1 atm. However, 125C is NOT 75 degrees F. More like 257F.

      We should all be glad that 75F is not above the boiling point of water, otherwise our bodies would turn to puffs of steam.

  3. You mean "Coldest Naturally Occurring Spot" by Scorpinox · · Score: 4, Informative

    The coldest spot in the universe would be in Boulder Colorado where they do absolute zero experiments.

    [source: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/phenom-200801.html ]

    1. Re:You mean "Coldest Naturally Occurring Spot" by Cheesetrap · · Score: 2, Funny

      http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/phenom-200801.html

      The speed of light, as we've all heard, is a constant: 186,171 miles per second in a vacuum. But it is different in the real world, outside a vacuum; for instance, light not only bends but also slows ever so slightly when it passes through glass or water. Still, that's nothing compared with what happens when [Lene Vestergaard] Hau shines a laser beam of light into a Bose-Einstein condensate: it's like hurling a baseball into a pillow. "First, we got the speed down to that of a bicycle," Hau says. "Now it's at a crawl, and we can actually stop itâ"keep light bottled up entirely inside the BEC, look at it, play with it and then release it when we're ready."

      O.O

      Since my boggled eyes probably won't constitute a worthy post, I guess I should add this. :) (it's a tiny bit relevant lol)

    2. Re:You mean "Coldest Naturally Occurring Spot" by Criliric · · Score: 4, Informative
      no where on that page does it say that they have made it to absolute zero... infact:

      Physicists acknowledge they can never reach the coldest conceivable temperature, known as absolute zero and long ago calculated to be minus 459.67F.

    3. Re:You mean "Coldest Naturally Occurring Spot" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      That doesn't mean they can't do experiments related to absolute zero including attempts at approaching it.

      He didn't say they did experiments "at" absolute zero.

  4. Re:Sterling Engine! by fiannaFailMan · · Score: 3, Funny

    Pluto isn't in the solar system anymore.

    Of course it bloody is, it just isn't a planet anymore. Or something.

    --
    Drill baby drill - on Mars
  5. Re:Sterling Engine! by Cheesetrap · · Score: 4, Funny

    Pluto isn't in the solar system anymore.

    I wouldn't hang around if people were disrespecting me either.

  6. Heinlein knew it by gmuslera · · Score: 3, Funny

    The moon is a frigid mistress

    1. Re:Heinlein knew it by MichaelSmith · · Score: 3, Funny

      The moon is a frigid mistress

      Doesn't sound like Bob Heinlein to have a woman like that in his story. Come to think of it I can't think of one.

      --
      http://michaelsmith.id.au
  7. Larry Niven, "The Coldest Place" by argent · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Back when we though Mercury was tidally locked to the Sun (instead of being tidally locked to the Sun and Venus) Larry Niven wrote a short story "The Coldest Place", in which the backside of Mercury, always facing away from the Sun, was the coldest place in the solar system.

    Good guess, Larry. Not quite right, but ... good going.

  8. Minnesota by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Funny

    So, Minnesota got bumped to 2nd?

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    Table-ized A.I.
  9. Re:Not the coldest spot. by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It is not the coldest spot, it is simply the coldest *known* spot.

    To be intentionally pedantic, it's the coldest *measured* spot. We "know" spots like Triton that may qualify, but it has not been measured in the detail the moon has.
         

    --
    Table-ized A.I.
  10. "Moon Computing" replaces "Cloud Computing" by BoldAndBusted · · Score: 2, Funny

    So, THIS is where the data centers in 2150 will be.... Will Amazon be selling "Moon Computing" then? :)

  11. Re:Sterling Engine! by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 4, Funny

    What about the crevasse on uranus ? (Come on *someone* had to.)

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  12. obligatory #37 by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Funny

    But the sun don't shine in Uranus either

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    Table-ized A.I.
    1. Re:obligatory #37 by petrus4 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Uranus needs to be renamed back to Herschel, after the guy who discovered it. Stupid jokes come up every time the planet is mentioned.

  13. Re:Excuse my ignorance...just asking... by perrin · · Score: 2, Informative

    No, you need gravity to hold an atmosphere, much more than the Moon currently has. A strong magnetic field helps, but is not necessary, as in the case of Venus.

  14. Re:Suprise to me... by AJWM · · Score: 2, Informative

    They have volcanoes of liquid nitrogen on those moons for pete's sake.

    But nitrogen freezes at 63 K, so that liquid nitrogen is at least twice as warm as the 33 K found on the Moon. Now, if those moons have craters at their poles that are permanently shielded from sunlight....

    (Actually there are other factors in play, like the thermal conductivity of whatever the moon in question is made of, heating effects of tidal friction, etc.)

    --
    -- Alastair
  15. Re:Excuse my ignorance...just asking... by rts008 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Damn! You are correct!
    Gravity is a stone cold bitch, and I know this first-hand! *facepalm*
    Thanks for the prompt reply and reminder that I need to think stuff all the way through. :-)
    I should not have overlooked that, and now feel foolish for my short-sightedness.
    Thanks for the "get a grip on reality" slap to the face for the half-baked question.
    Really, no sarcasm intended- I can't believe I missed that basic principle!

    *starts writing on chalkboard:
    "rts008 is a premature ejaculating dumbass" one hundred times.*
    I will learn from this!!!

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  16. Oort Cloud? by bryan1945 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Does the Oort cloud count as part of the solar system, or is it beyond the heliosphere? Either way, it's gotta be a tad chilly out there.

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