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Micropayments For News — Holy Grail Or Delusion?

newscloud writes "Harvard's Nieman Journalism Lab sounds off on micropayments for news content, on the side of the argument that says they are a dangerous delusion: 'What does it mean for journalism? It could mean charging for different platforms, for early alerts, for special members-only access to certain premium or value-added content. But I'm pretty sure of one thing: It doesn't mean charging people fractions of a cent to read a news story, no matter how sophisticated the process.' The article provides good context on the debate over micropayments from a 2003 piece by Clay Shirky, to recent analysis and opinion by Masnick, Outing, Graham, and Reifman. Google's micropayment plans were recently discussed here."

45 of 234 comments (clear)

  1. Premium content by sopssa · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If the content is premium content, something that I know is more valuable or interesting than elsewhere, then I have no problem paying for it. This is the reason people for pay for Wall Street Journal and the likes too - they get more out of it and the writers are specialized in the area.

    For everyday news, no. I want opinions and better writing than just simply telling the news.

    1. Re:Premium content by slashqwerty · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If they don't accept anonymous payments I won't pay for the content regardless of how good it is. The technology for anonymous electronic cash has been around for more than a decade. If a vendor wants my money they had better respect my privacy.

    2. Re:Premium content by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The fun thing is that this is mainly a US problem. For example in Russia the most used payment method is WebMoney, where you define exactly what information is public about your account and *by default* everything is private. All the information other party sees is the "purse number" of yours, ie. Z435903486439 or similar.

      And you can pay for pretty much every service with it, from buying credit to your mobile phone to doing online purchases. You can also get credit card that is linked to your account. And the system is a lot more secure than PayPal too, with possibility to use keyfiles and sms verification for transactions along others. And theres none of such cases where PayPal just decides to lock out the user account. It is actually your account.

      Sometimes its funny how much US is lacking behind on some things.

    3. Re:Premium content by noundi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If the content is premium content, something that I know is more valuable or interesting than elsewhere, then I have no problem paying for it. This is the reason people for pay for Wall Street Journal and the likes too - they get more out of it and the writers are specialized in the area.

      For everyday news, no. I want opinions and better writing than just simply telling the news.

      On the contrary, I want news -- instead of this ridiculous sensationalism. And I don't want it filtered through anybody in terms of opinions. If Jimmy, 5, falls down the well I want the news to report: 5-year-old Jimmy falls down the well, and not: WELLS SLAYING OUR CHILDREN, GOVERNMENT IGNORING.

      --
      I am the lawn!
    4. Re:Premium content by slim · · Score: 3, Insightful

      On the contrary, I want news -- instead of this ridiculous sensationalism. And I don't want it filtered through anybody in terms of opinions.

      In which case you want a Reuters feed, or similar.

      Analysis, opinion, these are value-adds. Many people *don't* just want to know what's happened. They want to know what other people think about it - people who are paid to be knowledgable, or merely entertainingly opinionated or outrageous.

      Ridiculous sensationalism isn't to my taste -- but lots of people seem prepared to pay for it.

    5. Re:Premium content by NatasRevol · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If it's truly premium content, then I can see justifying paying for it.

      However, the real problem is that most newspapers think that their editorial content is almost as good as the WSJ and the like. But the sad truth is that it's nowhere near that. It's not indepth, it's not researched, it's not thorough, hell, it's not usually spell checked. And every newsroom I've ever been in believes they have great content. In spite of the fact that most stories are PR pieces or written by someone else who emailed it to the features, sports or news desk.

      And yet the newspapers think that they'll make more money by putting this crap behind a pay wall. In reality, they'll just get fewer hits on their website, and thus ads, and will end up lowering their revenue way more than what they charge for access to their 'premium' content.

      If they wanted to actually increase revenue, there's a simple solution.
      1. Create compelling content
      2. Charge a premium for ads around that compelling content.

      Compelling content = more readership which means more ad impressions which means more ad revenue. Yes, compelling content is hard. But it's the only way for newspapers to make it in the future.

      Yet every paper sees it as giving content away for free. And they're all idiots. They provide a real service - information. They just need to figure out how & who to charge to optimize their bottom line. Because advertisers, especially local ones that are impacted by that compelling content, are willing to pay for good quality ad hits.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    6. Re:Premium content by bickerdyke · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Analysis, opinion, these are value-adds.

      as is filtering itself. I bet even the GP wants his news filtered from every bag of rice that tipped over in china, or the results of some back-country bake-off. (Which might be really important news over there, but not over here.) But not every news from over there is unimportant over here. So you as everyone wants your news filtered. By someone who is likely to share the same important/unimportant threshold as you.

      --
      bickerdyke
  2. Here's a crazy idea... by rodrigoandrade · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'll just get my news fix at free sites.

    1. Re:Here's a crazy idea... by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's the thing, they think we want content. Well, we do, but we've never paid for content. I can read the local paper at McDonald's or any number of other places for free. I won't buy news, but I'll buy a newspaper once in a while, and it will get passed around the office for everyone else to read for free.

      I guess that makes me a pirate in the eyes of "content providers".

      That's the thing -- we've NEVER paid for content, we pay for its container, whether it be a book, a newspaper, an album, or a DVD. We were always free to tape friends' LPs and we were always free to record TV shows and movies on VHS (well, since the advent of the VCR anyway). We didn't buy music, we bought records. We didn't buy movies, we bought tapes. We didn't buy news, we bought newspapers.

      Now that everything's digital they want us to pay two bucks for a song and you don't even get a 45, they want a buck for a newspaper and we don't even get the paper itself?

      Listen up, young people -- don't let the greedy moneygrubbers steal your money buy letting them sell you something that has always been free. Bits are like air; they're free and always have been. If you want to sell air you have to wrap a scuba tank or a balloon around it. If you want to sell bits you likewise have to have a container, like a CD or an LP or a sheaf of paper.

      These idiots think I'll buy something that's completely free from a myriad of sources. Must be some good shit they're smoking!

    2. Re:Here's a crazy idea... by natehoy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Eventually, some portion of what you are paying for the container goes to pay for the content. In the case of newspapers, it's actually a significant portion. A newspaper costs a few pennies to print, and even with delivery and markup, the bulk of the money the newspaper company is paid is for content, not the printing of hieroglyphs on thinly-pounded dead trees.

      Also, digital distribution is far cheaper, but it isn't free.

      I agree that digital music and other information sources are more expensive than they seemingly should be. But micropayments might help solve that problem. Headlines and a brief summary are either free or available on a really dirt cheap subscription (a dollar a month, say). If you want to read a full article, you pay a penny. Read an entire newspaper's worth of articles of interest to you, it'll cost you a quarter or so. Compare that to the 75 cents to a dollar that a newspaper costs today on paper, and that's probably a pretty accurate reflection of how much of your money today goes into content.

      A lot of the free news sites are actually making money on ad revenues, and hopefully that will support decent journalism, but I know my local paper is laying off people (including reporters) left and right because they aren't being paid enough to reprint their news, and print subscriptions are down. Someone's gotta pay a reporter to go out and collect the news, and analyze it, and write it up. Someone's gotta be paid to fact-check, and spell-check, and digitize photos. Someon'e gotta get paid for decent layout (whether it be print or web). Someone's gotta get paid to maintain the web servers and the Internet connection.

      --
      "This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
    3. Re:Here's a crazy idea... by slim · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's the thing -- we've NEVER paid for content, we pay for its container, whether it be a book, a newspaper, an album, or a DVD.

      I kind of sympathise with your angle, but it needs firming up. A blank notepad is cheaper than a novel or a newspaper. A DVD-R is cheaper than a DVD. So we *are* paying for content. ... and the content is far from being free to create.

      Yet, to me at least, the content is less valuable without the packaging. A printed book is worth more to me than a PDF, simply because I can read it in more comfort. It's the combination of content and format that has value.

      The problem comes as digital formats become more ubiquitous. If I owned an eBook reader - a better one than is currently available - then possibly a digital copy of a book or newspaper would be worth more to me than a printed book. This is already happening for music: lots of people actually prefer to have MP3s instead of CDs.

      If digital distribution is the future, *and* we somehow believe that digital copies should not be paid for, then how does content get financed? I don't know the answer. I'm fascinated in seeing how things work out.

      For news, at least, I think that competition will push consumer prices towards zero, such that pay sites won't be able to compete.

    4. Re:Here's a crazy idea... by mcgrew · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The next thing you'll be telling me is that when you pay to go to a concert, you're only paying for the actual paper ticket rather than the "content" of the performance

      When I go to a concert I'm not buying anything. I'm paying for a service, just like when my employer pays me for my time or I pay a barber to cut my hair or tip my bartender. When I buy that band's CD I'm buying a CD. When I hear them on the radio, it's free. When I tape it off the radio it's free. The content is free, the CD and service (concert) are not.

      In the past, a couple friends made copies of something. Nobody cared. But the content wasn't "free"; it's just the potential for abuse was small.

      Well, it's hardly abuse if it's legal, and in the 1970s copying tapes was explicitly legalized (it's since been outlawed). And if it was so harmless, why did Jack Valenti as head of the MPAA say that "The VCR is to the movie industry what Jack the Ripper was to women"? The fact is that the music labels decried taping and even lied on album covers that it was illegal, when it had specifically been legalized.

      And distributing bootlegs WAS a problem; I remember an incident in the early '70s where Willy Nelson (I think it was him, long time ago) got in trouble when he went into a gas station and found bootleg copies of his stuff for sale and trashed the place. IIRC both he and the proprieter went to jail. Commercial copyright infringement isn't just illegal, it's wrong.

      Since KSHE changed their format in 1967 and became the world's first FM stereo rock station, they've had a feature called "the seventh day" from the station's beginning and still continue today. They play seven whole uncut albums and even cue the listener to get his tape recorder ready, and still do. This is in St Louis, with a population of millions able to hear and record the show. See Birth of a label-sanctioned pirate radio station

      When Ted Nugent's Stranglehold album came out I had it on tape a full week before it was available for sale - KSHE had played it, and I'd taped it. As that album kicked ass I bought the LP after it was for sale. This is how a lot of young "pirates" use P2P; someone will recommend something, and they want to listen before they shell out their hard earned dosh.

      The internet has changed a lot of things, but as to noncomercial copyright infringement the only thing it changed was to give the media moguls something to bitch to congress about.

    5. Re:Here's a crazy idea... by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 2, Interesting
      You make some good points about various historical issues which may be relevant if we were debating the RIAA and MPAA's policies. I agree that there has been a lot of inconsistency in their positions over the years, but (as I said in my previous reply), I'm not trying to defend them. I'll admit that I overstated (or perhaps didn't clarify) some things, though, and you've brought a lot of great points out.

      That said, I'm really confused about the places you decide to split hairs. For example:

      Commercial copyright infringement isn't just illegal, it's wrong.

      I have to admit I was surprised by that statement in context of your post. I'm guessing that you want distribution of copyrighted content to be allowed as long as no one is making a profit? What does "commercial" mean here? Anytime that someone accepts any compensation in return for providing a copy of a copyrighted work? Or does it have to be on a large scale? What if someone facilitates commercial infringement by making content available in a form that makes it easier to copy? I'm just trying to understand where you draw the line.

      By the way, I'm sympathetic to your view, and I understand that much of the "pirate" market consists of people who wouldn't pay for the content anyway (and, for many, if they find something valuable enough, they will pay).

      But I simply can't agree with this:

      When I go to a concert I'm not buying anything. I'm paying for a service, just like when my employer pays me for my time or I pay a barber to cut my hair or tip my bartender. When I buy that band's CD I'm buying a CD. When I hear them on the radio, it's free. When I tape it off the radio it's free. The content is free, the CD and service (concert) are not.

      I understand the distinction you're trying to draw about a "service," but you choose a very interesting place to draw the line. Are you allowed to make a recording of this "service" and distribute it freely? Are you allowed to sneak some people into the concert to enjoy hearing it as well, as long as they don't disrupt other people? They aren't interfering with the "service" for anyone, and since you aren't buying anything, what does it matter?

      I would think that the latter sounds immoral. It does to me. You're paying to hear that performance, whether you want to call it a "service" or whatever, just like part of the profits earned on the CD you buy go to pay the artist for performing in the studio and making the CD. Yeah, if a performance gets played on the radio, you can hear it for free, just as a band can hold a free concert. But it does not follow that the content of a recording has no inherent monetary value. If I go to the grocery store, and they have a "buy one, get one free sale" on cans of peas, it doesn't mean that cans of peas are "free" in any absolute sense. If I show up on the first day they're selling a new computer application, and they give me one for free as a first customer, that doesn't mean it was "free" in an absolute sense, and I should just go home and give the software to everyone. Playing something on a radio or even allowing legal taping of "free" performances on the radio does not make every recording of that performance in every medium "free."

      And even if you think it does, it does not follow that the "content" of CD is free. Come on. It's particularly noticeable in classical CDs. I can buy a recording of Vivaldi's "Four Seasons" by some crappy orchestra for less than $5. I can buy a CD that looks exactly the same except for some cover art, but it was just recorded by some hip new group in Italy, and I'll pay $18 for it. If the "content" of the CD is free, then what the hell am I paying $13 more for? I'm paying for a better performance (or at least a newer one or one that's more in vogue). Classical labels are small enough that new orchestral recordings simply won't pay unless they sell CDs; how else do you justify getting 50-100 musicians together to provide

    6. Re:Here's a crazy idea... by mcgrew · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Commercial copyright infringement isn't just illegal, it's wrong.

      I have to admit I was surprised by that statement in context of your post. I'm guessing that you want distribution of copyrighted content to be allowed as long as no one is making a profit?

      It used to be legal to record your friend's LP on cassette. See, publishers don't sell novels, they sell BOOKS. They should continue to sell books. When you buy a novel for your kindle, you should get a nice dead tree book to go along with it; or rather, when you buy your book you should get the electronic version as well. Noncommercial copying does not hurt the artist; it's nothing more than advertising. I'm not likely to buy Cory Doctorow's Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom if I've never heard of him, and even if I have I'm not likely to buy it unless I've read other stuff by him. As it is, I read Little Brother on his web site, liked the story and the way he wrote, and bought DaOitMK.

      Forty years ago I bought Jimi Hendrix Are You Experienced when a friend gave me a cassette of it. They didn't play Hendrix on the radio, so without that "piracy" that sale would not have been made.

      But selling copies of works you aren't authorized to sell DOES deprive the artist and publisher of revinue.

      What does "commercial" mean here? Anytime that someone accepts any compensation in return for providing a copy of a copyrighted work?

      Yes. A sale is a sale, it shouldn't matter if one illegal copy was sold or a million. There's actually something tangible there.

      What if someone facilitates commercial infringement by making content available in a form that makes it easier to copy?

      I'm not sure what you mean by this, you mean like inventing a CD burner or ripper? Would you prosecute a gunsmith if one of his hunting rifles was used for murder?

      Are you allowed to make a recording of this "service" and distribute it freely?

      Why not? A concert is more than music, and agiain, this only helps the artist. The Grateful Dead, who got little airplay, would have never had the popularity they enjoyed had they not encouraged bootlegs of their live performances. I have friends who post lossless copies of their shows on archive.org, as thousands of other artists do.

      Are you allowed to sneak some people into the concert to enjoy hearing it as well, as long as they don't disrupt other people?

      Thats silly, of course not. OTOH when I was in college in the late '70s at SIU, they had the Mississippi River Festival there. You could (barely) hear the concert from our on-campus apartment; it was an outdoor festival that went on every night all summer long. They didn't allow alcohol past the gates (I think they were OK with drugs though), so there were mountains of beer outside. My then-wife and I would sit outside listening to the concert and drinking beer. Occasionally we'd buy a ticket and go inside where you actually got the full experience. But nobody ever complained about the party outside, nor should they have. In fact, there were acts I'd not heard of that I wound up buying albums from hearing them outside the gates. Like I said, I'm not likely to buy a concert ticket for a band I've never heard of.

      I can buy a recording of Vivaldi's "Four Seasons" by some crappy orchestra for less than $5. I can buy a CD that looks exactly the same except for some cover art, but it was just recorded by some hip new group in Italy, and I'll pay $18 for it.

      You can buy a copy of a Britney Spears CD for $20 or a CD from a local band that actually has some talent for $5. I don't see the point of your argument. The content is the "carrot" that gets you to spend the money on the physical object.

      But when you claim that recorded content (or printed or whatever) has no value... well, if that's true, I hope you won't miss that "content" when no one makes any more for you.

      It will never hapen. Creative people MUST create; it's in the way they (we) are. A musician can no more refrain from playing music than an alcoholic can refrain from drinking. There will always be art, good and bad, whether or not it's monetized.

  3. Micropayments by ZekoMal · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Easiest way to find a free alternative. Most people already pay for TV of some sort on top of internet, so if every single news outlet (including local news outlets and blogs and places like slashdot) started charging for you to view news, people would simply watch the news they already technically pay for. I have no problem paying for new news. The problem with our news is that every outlet runs the same story with their commentary slapped on top.

  4. NPR by TrippTDF · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Advertising on the internet simply does not work, and micropayments are never going to fly. Newspapers need to adopt the NPR beg-a-thon method. They need to learn to live with lower overheads and lower revenues. Their sales forces need to convert into grant-writers and they need to focus on asking their readers and big corporate donors for money.

    1. Re:NPR by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Advertising on the internet doesn't work because they're doing it wrong. The more in your face they make it, the harder we readers concentrate on ignoring it, and when it gets too outrageous we put in ad blockers. ADVERTISING SHOULD NOT MOVE IN A PAGE YOU'RE TRYING TO READ. When I see a page of blinkey flashing twirley ads with two paragraphs per page, I know that the site is pure shit and is only there to garner cash for some greedhead. They're lucky if they get me to read the first page.

      The lower overheads need to come in the form of lower wages for the top earners. Millions of dollars a year, even hundreds of thousands per year for ONE single employee is ludicrous.

    2. Re:NPR by StreetStealth · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is precisely why Facebook killed MySpace.

      MySpace advertising: "HEY LOOK AXE BODY SPRAY HOT CHICKS YEAHH"

      Facebook advertising: "Oh hey, you said you like design. These advertisers thought you might like this design book."

      Even if I never buy the body spray or the design book, the former ad makes me dislike the product while the latter leaves me curious.

      --
      Your mind is clear / The things that you fear / Will fade with how much you / Believe what you hear
  5. How about "Holy Grail and delusion" by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's the Holy Grail of media outlets, because it would get people to pay for something that has been given away for a long time. But it's a delusion as well, since efforts at doing just that have not met with anything remotely like success.

    For instance, the New York Times tried to do a "Times Select" paid service with a lot of formerly free content available for the low low price of $10.99 per year or so. It must not have worked, because a few months later all the content that used to be hidden behind the paywall was placed back on the free site.

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    1. Re:How about "Holy Grail and delusion" by slim · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Newspapers need to realize that the readers are the product, and they're trying to sell that to the advertisers.

      Newspapers know that. Newspapers also know that paying readers are worth more to advertisers than non-paying readers - because the fact that they're paying shows they're "engaged".

      Perhaps online news sources need to prove to advertisers that their readership is engaged in different ways. For example, a lively commenting community would be one way.

  6. News is an experiential good by sjbe · · Score: 4, Informative

    The problem with news is that it is an experiential good meaning you can't determine it's value in advance. You only know whether it was worth something AFTER you read it. So why would someone pay for news that might or might not be valuable? Usually because the source has a track record of providing good information (New York Times, Wall Street Journal, etc) or you have some other reason to suspect that the information might be valuable (information about a stock that is not widely known for instance). But the seller of information by definition cannot know what the information is worth to the buyer in advance. Generally the seller finds out it was worth something to the buyer if the buyer buys information from them again.

    There is money to be made in paying for content that can be had for free elsewhere. Apple's iTunes is proof enough of that. BUT it has to provide something you can't easily get from the free (even if illegal) alternatives. That could be convenience, it could be support, it could be complementary technology (iPod/Kindle), it could be reliability, it could be unusually insightful analysis, and it could be other things. Just copying the latest AP news has some value but not enough many people will pay for it directly.

    1. Re:News is an experiential good by slim · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem with news is that it is an experiential good meaning you can't determine it's value in advance.

      Indeed, and while we get over this with periodicals by using past performance as a guide, I'd say that this only works if you look at whole edition of a newspaper as a bundle, rather than looking article by article.

      If I loved one Guardian article, I don't think that's a reliable indicator that I'll love some arbitrary Guardian article from today's edition.

      Rather, I've found in the past that a typical copy of the Guardian (GBP 1.20) contains a a bunch of headlines I can skim through to get a general idea of what's going on in the world; three or four news articles I want to read in full; maybe one in-depth double page spread I can get my teeth into; some lightweight commentary; a letters page; reviews; a crossword and sudoku if I'm bored later on.

      If you unbundled those and tried to charge for the separately, I don't think it would work. I happily pay the cover price for a newspaper knowing that I'll skip more than half of it. But I don't know which half until after I've paid, and neither does the editor.

  7. Advertising by Spazmania · · Score: 4, Insightful

    With a very few exceptions, news is worth what you can get advertisers to pay for access to the consumers. This has been true since the advent of television journalism half a century ago.

    It's the newspaper's own fault that craigs list took over classified advertising. They had the better part of a decade to get their acts together and get the ads online before craigs list existed. And it's their own fault that they still haven't learned the Google advertising lesson so that they're still serving worthless banner ads that many if not most of the browsers block.

    If they continue to refuse to embrace their new reality, they will continue to fail. Such is fate.

    --
    Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
  8. Experience goods by sjbe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If the content is premium content, something that I know is more valuable or interesting than elsewhere, then I have no problem paying for it.

    The problem with that argument when applied to newspapers is that news is an experiential good and by definition you cannot possibly know if it "is more valuable or interesting than elsewhere" until after you have the information. So you have to pay for it and hope that it turns out to be valuable. You can rely on the reputation or reliability of the source, but that still doesn't tell you in advance that the information is good. Even if others tell you it is valuable, you might not find it to be so - think of a movie that all your friends like but you don't.

    1. Re:Experience goods by jedidiah · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nonsense. You get to "experience" a periodical in every issue. Every issue
      is an opportunity for that periodical to prove itself. Even if the content
      is only available in hard copy you can still easily browse it and all of
      it's immediate competitors (library, bookstore).

      The character of The Journal doesn't change from one day to the next.

      Neither does Fox News.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  9. Re:Holy Grail != Delusion? by happy_place · · Score: 3, Funny

    No. I think we all know, thanks to the movies, that the holy grail is guarded by a really bored knight of the round-table even to this day and is a common looking cup that can heal your dad's wounds, and then will cause an earthquake opening a great chasm that will swallow any (especially hot nazi dominatrix-type women) who try to grab it, instead of chosing to live...

    --
    http://www.beanleafpress.com
  10. News content wont be beholden to advertisers by microbox · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I sense a problem that can be solved with S****ISM (deleted as a proactive measure to stop the political-right from having a heart-attack). The BBC news is light-years ahead of anything in the USA. It's also politically independent, unlike state-run newspapers in Iran, China and Russia.

    Can you not see a simple solution when it's staring you in the face? Has Rupert Murdoch out-foxed you all? Create an independently funded public institution, with a mandate to "educate", "inform" and "entertain", and maybe the citizens of the USA wont score so poorly on survey questions such as "were WMDs found in Iraq".

    And your news content wont be beholden to advertising interests.

    --

    Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
    1. Re:News content wont be beholden to advertisers by maxume · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We could call it "PBS".

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    2. Re:News content wont be beholden to advertisers by slim · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The BBC is the left-wing propaganda arm of the British state;

      You call that left wing? Jeez.

      it doesn't drop its left-wing slant even when a right-wing government is in power

      Since we haven't had a left wing government since 1983, it's pretty hard to make a judgement on that.

      What is clear, though, is that the BBC is entirely separate from the government. The government authorises the BBC to collect a TV licence fee, on condition that it sticks to its charter, and there the links end. There's plenty of people who kick up a stink at the slightest hint of the BBC becoming a government mouthpiece.

  11. more news balkenization and trolling by xzvf · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Forcing people to pay for news will only increase the tendency for people to only read news they agree with. What will "save" the news industry is a shift away from creating the content to vetting content created by interested parties. While most newspapers (US) have had deteriorating quality since the Spanish-American war most in depth reporting has been done by interested parties. Groklaw is a good example of a single subject reporting. What good news aggregators should do is make it easy for people interested in SCO to find Groklaw, press releases by involved parties, and alternative views on the subject. Real "news" reform would force government, corporations and even non-profits to be more transparent in their dealings, making it easier for interested parties to research and create quality news. Tort reform to keep legal action from crushing individuals prior to judicial review (ie loser pays) would have significant impact too.

  12. Second News? by argent · · Score: 4, Funny

    Maybe the newspapers could start charging Linden Dollars for stories? :)

  13. It's All About Circulation by curmudgeon99 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Anyone like me who has published a paper newspaper knows that it is all about circulation. Every additional cent that you charge for a copy of your publication does not increase your profits. Instead, it decreases your circulation.

    Point in fact: when I lived in Omaha, Nebraska I bought a copy of the New York Times every day and read it on the treadmill.

    Now, I live in New York City where the New York Times costs $2.00 a copy. I have bought it about three times at that price.

    In short, micropayments is a sure way to send people somewhere else for the news.

  14. Considering by dgun · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The general public doesnâ€(TM)t put any value on the source of their 'news'. In other words, a twitter post is just as good as something from the AP. This is partially due, IMO, to shitty poor journalism, so little time and effort is spent investigating and digging for original content nowadays. Rather, today 'journalists' slap together a handful of talking points and use other news organization's reports as sources. Journalism today has by and large become a cycle of shit, thanks in large part to the freak show circus of cable 'news'.

    So, I don't see myself paying Google for the same quality of 'news' I can get for free from any random jerk's blog.

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    FAQs are evil.
    1. Re:Considering by blueZ3 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Think about this: when a reporter covers an area that you're an expert in, how much do they get wrong? For instance, if you know a lot about computers, how often do you hear a reporter completely misrepresent something or get some key fact exactly backwards? Now extrapolate that to EVERY area of expertise (except possibly sports) and determine how reliable journalism is. Unless there's a video of the actual event (and I mean a video as it happens, not Bob from the Washington Bureau shaking his head as the ambulances drive away) you can pretty much count on getting half the facts, badly distorted, and intentionally slanted to fit the reporter's (or their editor's) bias.

      News has ALWAYS been this way--it's just that you're noticing it more. About 35 years ago I had an article written about me in the local paper. It was filled with "direct quotes" of things that I never said, contained about six factual errors in two paragraphs, and was essentially completely divorced from the reality of what had happened.

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    2. Re:Considering by dgun · · Score: 2

      I mostly agree. However, there has been a marked decline in quality over the years also.

      In particular, the casual mixing of commentary and news is troubling.

      The increase in the number of overall news sources, combined with the trend of fewer locally owned newspapers, radio stations, and TV stations has done real damage, IMO.

      --
      FAQs are evil.
  15. Re:Micro by mcgrew · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yes, but anything smaller than a million dollars is chump change for these rich greedheads, so a buck IS a micropayment -- to them.

  16. Re:Micro by blueZ3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think this is one key point: micro payments need to be micro. I'm not paying $.25 to read the on-line version of an AP article on the NYT site. If you figure there are 100 articles in the weekly edition of the NYT, then a single article is worth something less than 1/2 a cent, in print. If you eliminate the printing and distribution costs, say 1/4 or 1/8 a cent per article. I might pay a few pennies to read the entire site, but I'm not willing to pay anywhere near the dead-tree price for on-line news.

    Another point: whatever they take for micropayments it has to be something easy and ubiquitous. I'm not jumping through hoops so that I can pay 1/8th of a cent to read the obits. And whatever it is, it can't be something that only works one place. I'm not signing up for "NYTCa$h" that can't be used anywhere but the NYT site.

    My personal opinion is that news will continue to be ad-supported for the foreseeable future. As technology improves and ads become more targeted, they will be increasingly effective and less annoying. Hopefully this will happen soon enough to keep journalism alive.

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  17. Here, time is worth more than the price. by v(*_*)vvvv · · Score: 3, Insightful

    For one simple reason, micropayments as they are debated here will never work.

    When the product is too cheap, then the time and effort buying the product is the true cost to the buyer.

    In other words, after a certain point, it just has to be free, or it simply isn't worth it.

    What's more, if the seller doesn't value their product enough to charge a non-micro amount for it, then what they are doing is failing to make a value proposition, which is the essence of a business transaction.

    No one will pay pennies for something worth pennies.

    Newspapers are already cheap, but they are not free. But they aren't micro-priced either. Whether it is buying a paper at the stand or subscribing months at a time, there is a valid value proposition there.

    On-line media has yet to find that value proposition. Without that proposition, debating the technical details concerning how payments will be made is getting waaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of yourself.

  18. More details by sootman · · Score: 2, Informative

    For those interested in more detail about the economics and psychology behind Clay's theory that micropayments will never work, I recommend this earlier piece from 2000. Nine years later, we still haven't seen a viable micropayment system (where "micro" = 25 cents or less) and I don't think that will change.

    ...micropayments would still seem to have an advantage over larger payments, since the cost of the transaction is so low. Who could haggle over a penny's worth of content? After all, people routinely leave extra pennies in a jar by the cashier. Surely amounts this small makes valuing a micropayment transaction effortless?

    Here again micropayments create a double-standard. One cannot tell users that they need to place a monetary value on something while also suggesting that the fee charged is functionally zero. This creates confusion - if the message to the user is that paying a penny for something makes it effectively free, then why isn't it actually free? Alternatively, if the user is being forced to assent to a debit, how can they behave as if they are not spending money?

    Beneath a certain price, goods or services become harder to value, not easier, because the X for Y comparison becomes more confusing, not less. Users have no trouble deciding whether a $1 newspaper is worthwhile - did it interest you, did it keep you from getting bored, did reading it let you sound up to date - but how could you decide whether each part of the newspaper is worth a penny?

    Was each of 100 individual stories in the newspaper worth a penny, even though you didn't read all of them? Was each of the 25 stories you read worth 4 cents apiece? If you read a story halfway through, was it worth half what a full story was worth? And so on.

    When you disaggregate a newspaper, it becomes harder to value, not easier. By accepting that different people will find different things interesting, and by rolling all of those things together, a newspaper achieves what micropayments cannot: clarity in pricing.

    The very micro-ness of micropayments makes them confusing. At the very least, users will be persistently puzzled over the conflicting messages of "This is worth so much you have to decide whether to buy it or not" and "This is worth so little that it has virtually no cost to you."...

    Imagine you are moving and need to buy cardboard boxes. Now you could go and measure the height, width, and depth of every object in your house - every book, every fork, every shoe - and then create 3D models of how these objects could be most densely packed into cardboard boxes, and only then buy the actual boxes. This would allow you to use the minimum number of boxes.

    But you don't care about cardboard boxes, you care about moving, so spending time and effort to calculate the exact number of boxes conserves boxes but wastes time. Furthermore, you know that having one box too many is not nearly as bad as having one box too few, so you will be willing to guess how many boxes you will need, and then pad the number.

    For low-cost items, in other words, you are willing to overpay for cheap resources, in order to have a system that maximizes other, more important, preferences. Micropayment systems, by contrast, typically treat cheap resources (content, cycles, disk) as precious commodities, while treating the user's time as if were so abundant as to be free.

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  19. The future is not black and white by PhunkySchtuff · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As usual, what will end up happening will be something between the two extremes.

    Not every news site will be able to, or even want to go with a paid subscription model. Some sites that are charging for content at present, such as the WSJ, will continue to do so. Quite a few more will make the shift to paid access, only some of these will be successful in doing so, some will fold and the rest will go back to the present model of advertising.

    What people will see real value in, and will be accepting of paying for is opinion, insight and thought. Current events are raw data - they happen and they're reported as-is. Where the value lies is turning that raw data into information and this is what people will pay for. As an example, anyone can walk into the Australian Bureau of Statistics and get raw import/export data for commodities. There is no value in someone else simply republishing these statistics. What there is value in is looking at the series over time, analysing the data with your knowledge of the industry, saying why things happened in the past and what they're likely to do in the future. People will pay a lot of money for this kind of information.

  20. An alternative to micro-payments by hierofalcon · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Another solution.

    Provide an on-line pass with the primary subscription to your local paper. Once you sign on to your local paper's internet site, you receive a cookie that permits you to access any other on-line content of the consortium for the day.

    The papers get a win by increasing local readership and circulation. You don't have to worry about micro-payments. If you don't subscribe to the local paper, you're left with micro-payments to access major papers content.

  21. Re:Holy Grail != Delusion? by captjc · · Score: 2, Funny

    Before that, it was guarded by a bunch of deranged, foul-mouth Frenchmen who liked catapulting livestock at kings and their entourage of knights

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  22. Wrong argument by thethibs · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's worth noting that newspapers don't do radio news and they don't do television news. Each medium ultimately finds its own business model.

    Paper, radio, TV news content is paid for by advertising.

    The shape of internet news is already evident. The only thing missing is blog sites that start bringing in enough revenue to put journalists and researchers on staff. Suppose HubPages or Blogger decided to set up a section for hard, fact-checked news and well-respected columnists. The ad rate in this section would climb fast. Positive feedback and competition does the rest.

    --
    I'm a Programmer. That's one level above Software Engineer and one level below Engineer.
  23. I have an idea... by Dreadneck · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If only the corporate media and big ISPs could find a way to lock down the internet and control access to and dissemination of information and content... Yeah, that's the ticket!

    Am I the only one who sees this as yet another argument by corporate media and big ISPs as to why they need to become the gatekeepers of the internet?

    I may be wrong, but I see this as just another salvo in the war against net neutrality.

    --
    Power does not corrupt - power attracts the corrupt.
  24. Headlines and summaries work for most things by Rastl · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A few things I've found by having several news sites in my rotation.

    1. The same story will appear in exactly the same format on multiple sites.
    2. The same story will appear multiple times on the same site (I'm lookin' at you Yahoo News).
    3. A headline and summary will suffice for 98% of the news I read since I don't care about the nitty gritty.

    With that in mind I would possibly pay for a handful of 'full stories' every week but for the bulk of them they're just not that interesting. I like knowing Event A happened but I don't need the in-depth analysis. But I wouldn't sign up on multiple sites and hand over payment information willy-nilly nor would I want to have to jump through multiple hoops to get access to the story. By the time that happens I will have already lost interest. Don't even start with putting down a balance on each site to have access to their content.