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Ballmer Admits "We Screwed Up Windows Mobile"

Posted by kdawson on from the chairs-have-been-thrown dept.

Barence writes "Microsoft boss Steve Ballmer has blasted the company's own mobile operating system at the firm's Venture Capital Summit. One tweet from an attendee claims Ballmer said the company had 'screwed up with Windows Mobile. Wishes they had already launched WM7. They completely revamped the team.' Another claims Ballmer said 'we've pumped in some new talent. This will not happen again.' It's not the first time Ballmer has attacked Windows Mobile, having publicly stated that version 6.5 was 'not the full release we wanted.'"

22 of 275 comments (clear)

  1. Title by sopssa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Nice way to twist the title and forget "with" too. They didn't screw up whole Windows Mobile like you could think, but they wanted to launch WM7 already.

    I actually like Windows Mobile most from the mobile platforms (however, I haven't tried Android yet). It's *a lot* more open than iPhone, as in you can run any software on it that you want. Also it seems to be customizable quite much, since HTC's version is a lot different from others. And there's a lot programs available.

    And dont even get me started on Symbian and the insanity to program something for it...

    1. Re:Title by Jurily · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Overall, Windows Mobile is clearly suffering from that Microsoft problem that once they think they are in charge of a market, all innovation completely stops.

      I'm going to get modded to hell and back for this, but Microsoft never really did "innovation". What they did was "buy up competitors who innovate, and integrate the result poorly".

    2. Re:Title by obarthelemy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Lucky bastard. Mine locks up once a day, and that's with 2 third-party apps: an e-reader and a media player. It locks up even when I don't run those 2 apps between lock-ups, so I'm fairly sure they've got nothing to do with it.

      Also, I just love having the Windows Experience on a tiny screen, with no real keyboard nor mouse, but lots of windows to scroll, tiny red Xs to click... It makes me appreciate how easy Windows is on a real PC !

      The worst of it is: I blame Palm. If those suckers hadn't screwed up so badly towards the end, we might be able to get Palm V's usability in a phone ! As it is, i'm switching back to a dumb phone + Palm TX combo. Best of both worlds.

      --
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    3. Re:Title by MrCrassic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I disagree somewhat.

      I don't think that Windows Mobile was a screwed up product. I think that its latest competition is starting to reveal just how outdated the platform is.

      Ever since I can remember (user since Smartphone 2002 with the MPx200), WinMo devices were designed to be the jack-of-all-trades. You could check your email on them, play music and videos, surf the web and run most of the apps like being on a PC. Unfortunately, this usually means they inherently become the master-of-none, as their background processes would often cause lock-ups, memory leaks and other baddies and had horribly high power consumption, especially when compared to the RIM and Palm devices.

      Today, iPhone can do those same tasks faster, easier and much more elegantly than WinMo could ever dream of doing. Blackberries are still the swiss-knife of corporate and personal email collaboration, but are now able to do media fairly well (though they still suck horrendously for internet browsing). Even Palm, which is on life support, can compete with WebOS. Then there's Android which basically claims ALL advantages Windows Mobile use to have, but in a much more elegant fashion...

      On top of all of this, the fact that service providers always had to customize Windows Mobile to extremes (i.e. HTC TouchFLO3D, Palm's customizations, etc.) makes jumping to Android and, for Palm, WebOS that much more attractive. On its face, Windows Mobile 6.1 is a BEAR to use, especially when compared against other devices. (Ever try using that TINY TINY keyboard with your fingers? Sure, the stylus can do it...but who wants to use a stylus anymore?) Windows Mobile 6.5 is getting there, but still has a lot of work to do. (Moving the bar to the bottom is a great step ahead.) Why wouldn't anyone want to save time and money? (As an aside, HTC didn't really need to provide SenseUI for Android, as Android is pretty decent from a usability standpoint as-is, but I guess having TouchFLO3D there made it easier to port.)

      Either way, Microsoft was never really known for innovation, and because of this, I highly doubt that even Mobile 7 can really save their mobile division at this point. It's a has-been.

    4. Re:Title by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Windows Mobile 6 is hell on the programmers who deal with configuring it on a cell phone in the first place.

      I was correcting translations at Fujitsu when they released the F1100 for Docomo. It was a Windows 6 mobile device, and their biggest problem was completely incompetent Windows support. They simply could not get help from Microsoft, and had to leave out certain features that were absolutely necessary for the Japanese market. One of the people I worked with grumbled that Microsoft, as a "Gaishikei" (foreign) company, only attracted second-rate talent in Japan and as a result did not do proper requirements gathering. Every night when I left (often after 11 PM), the only programming team that was left at the office was the F1100 team.

      Balmer: Fix the damn tech support for Windows Mobile in Japan.

  2. Let me guess... by Joce640k · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The old one was crap but the new one is perfect - just like every other Microsoft launch *ever*.

    --
    No sig today...
    1. Re:Let me guess... by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't know anything about the new one, but the old one was definitely crap.

      Windows Mobile uses almost exactly the same APIs we're used to on the desktop. Anyone that knows how to code a Windows GUI app should have no trouble coding one for Mobile. Hell you can even use .NET if you want, so there is a whole other class of developers who can do it too. In short, the possible developer pool is *huge*.

      The problem is, apps tend to look and feel too much like they should be running on a desktop. In their rush to make the development experience so similar, they didn't think to make the UI actually work on a phone. They completely missed the touch window. Even now, I have yet to see a really intuitive touch interface for Windows Mobile that isn't a completely custom third-party shell.

      If they want to attract users, they need an intuitive UI and a single place to find apps. If they want to attract developers, they need easy tools to make intuitive UIs and a single place to sell apps. It's not a hard concept, but they're failing pretty spectacularly at it.

    2. Re:Let me guess... by Bert64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It has a subset of similar APIs... It's effectively a completely unique os that uses the windows name to try and fool people into thinking it has some level of compatibility with the applications they already use...

      OSX and Linux are actually much closer between their desktop and phone oriented versions, many applications can simply be recompiled (i have things like nmap on my phone for instance) tho it obviously makes a lot more sense if you design a new interface which is appropriate to the device.

      In terms of interface, windows mobile has an interface designed for a desktop, which has been crudely kludged for use on a pda, and even more crudely kludged to try and make it work on the phone... The interface is just terrible.

      And yes, you're right that they need a single place to find apps... But remember that's not the windows way, users should be expected to locate their apps manually by buying them in physical stores and downloading binaries from arbitrary websites... And then manually run a setup program and blindly click next a few times until it's installed.

      Countless people on this very site have claimed that linux is unsuitable because it typically has a single simple place to find apps rather than doing things the same way windows does.

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  3. Re:Journalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Since when does kdawson let journalistic integrity stand in the way of a good Microsoft bash?

  4. WinMo 6 is OK but not finger friendly by BcNexus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Tiny buttons, scroll bars and radio buttons keep it from being finger friendly. However, the platform is more open than the iPhone so I can choose my apps and let them run in the background.

    Besides making it more finger friendly, there also should be an official JVM from Sun. That'd be awesome.

  5. ship it when it sorta works by jollyreaper · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's not the first time Ballmer has attacked Windows Mobile, having publicly stated that version 6.5 was "not the full release we wanted"."

    But you released it anyway, didn't you, Steve? You say you're sorry but you don't mean it.

    --
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    Sell the spice to CHOAM
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    1. Re:ship it when it sorta works by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Sounds like Microsoft is adopting the OSS philosophy.

    2. Re:ship it when it sorta works by rattaroaz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think you may be quoting him out of context. He is talking with investors and industry analysts. He is not saying "I am sorry the product sucks." He is saying "I am sorry we were not able to sell more, because the product sucks." Different message, and I think he really did mean it.

    3. Re:ship it when it sorta works by Bert64 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not a digital one...

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  6. What really happened. by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Apple came along and raised the bar very high. Fan of apple or not. In terms of Mobile OS they raised the bar very high for mobile app developers of competing products and sadly Windows Mobile was just trying to be good enough for blackberry users.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  7. Re:Asleep at the wheel by mewsenews · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Microsoft is very often caught "asleep at the wheel" (eg: the internet) but when they wake up and rejoin the race, they usually overtake and keep the lead permanently.

    Honestly, I'm not a fan of Microsoft, but we're all sick of reading stories about how expensive and proprietary the iPhone is. When Microsoft wakes up and really nails what Google's Android is flirting with, ie. non-proprietary iPhones with sexy hardware and standard, user liberated software, it will be a huge win for customers.

    It really took Apple to put everything together in one package so that wireless carriers saw "oh yeah, mobile internet", but now it's time for commoditization.

  8. Re:The thing about WinMobile is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The same can be said about OS X -> iPhone porting.

  9. Re:Is that true? by manekineko2 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Yes, it basically is in an inferior platform. It's got great underlyings relative to the competition, such as multitasking and an easy development environment, but the interface is unstable, sluggish and outdated, which makes the whole thing painfully unhip. Consumers don't want anything to do with it, so modern developers aren't bothering to target it.

  10. Re:The thing about WinMobile is by dingen · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It was easier to write software fro WM 5 years ago than it is to write for iPhone today. There should be thousands of apps out there. But there aren't. Because WM after version 3 began to suck more and more.

    I think there aren't so many apps for WinMo because there's no infrastructure for distribution, payment and updating your application. Sure, it's easy to create some application, but how do you get it to your users and (more important) how do you get them to pay for it?

    You could stick it on your website and pray people will find it, but the reality of course is that most people won't find it. And if you want people to pay for it, you will have to figure out a way of doing so.

    It requires a lot of effort from the developer to get things started. And even when he figures out how to get his infrastructure set up, it remains hard to get your application onto a user's phone. And then you release an update and it's even harder to get people to get the update on their phone.

    All in all, it's a mess and no sane developer will get into it, no matter how easy it may be to create the application itself.

    --
    Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
  11. Re:As opposed to Mac fanboys by gilesjuk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Any fan boy will say that, regardless of the platform. A fan boy is someone with an irrational brand loyalty.

    I don't class myself as an Apple fan boy, I didn't get an iPhone until it was developed enough to meet my needs. I'm not sure I will get a 3GS when my contract ends in Feb 2010.

    Perhaps if Ballmer spent less time criticising Apple and criticising his own product then things would be better for Windows Mobile?

    WM7 is only late because it probably started life as another rehash of Windows Mobile and needed a drastic rethink when the iPhone appeared.

  12. Re:Is that true? by manekineko2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Actually, I'm mistaken, you can multitask on a Blackberry. Still no full multitasking support in the iPhone though.

  13. Easy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Click n Run works, for free stuff and also paid for stuff. How much easier and user friendly can something get besides one click? You cruise the menu by topic or search, make selection, click, it downloads and installs. If you have made an account, it pays for the app if that is necessary, most of the apps are free like most are in linux. Is apple's app store better/easier than that? (never used it myself) And synaptic and various other GUI front ends for apt and .debs and on the rpm side are about as easy for that matter.