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G20 Protesters Blasted By "Sound Cannon"
aaandre sends word of the use of a "sound cannon" on G20 protesters in Pittsburgh. Only a few hundred protesters took to the streets. The NY Times notes: "City officials said they believed it was the first time the sound cannon had been used publicly." The device projects a narrow beam of extremely annoying sound, at levels that can reach 151 decibels, over a distance of a mile or more. The Guardian notes, "It is feared the sounds emitted are loud enough to damage eardrums and even cause fatal aneurysms." Officials of the company that manufactures the sound cannon say that ear damage is only possible if someone manages to stand directly in front of the device for an extended period.
Already there.
It's interesting that there's a Geneva Convention on weapons specifically designed to cause blindness , but apparently nothing about deafness.
Well, if people would RTFA, they'd see the "brief periods" is not how long you stand in front of the weapon, but how long they use it. As mentioned in the article, riot police used a "brief blast" that caused the crowd to recoil, giving the riot police room to safely use tear gas and bean bag projectiles.
The police don't turn this thing on and leave it running. That WOULD cause deafness. They only use it as needed in brief bursts. I'm sure there's probably some "training" they make the users of the device go through, just like the training they do for the Taser.
They've already used rubber bullets, batons, and fucking tear gas...
A friend of mine has been out there for the majority of this week.
Seeing that they only just used this now it's pretty pathetic.
You can't take the sky from me.
The OSHA standard stops at 115 db for 15 minutes. If we extrapolate the chart upwards (strictly against regulations), we'll see 120 db for 7.5 minutes, 125 db for 3.75 minutes, 130 db for 1.875 minutes, 135 db for 56 seconds, 140 db for 28 seconds, 145 db for 14 seconds, and 150 db for 7 seconds.
7 seconds is prolonged exposure? OK. Tell me another one.
Unless it's using a different definition of dB than I'm used to, 3dB is a doubling, not 5.
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ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
Yep. 3dB doubles the sound. You know that, I know that. The OSHA exposure limits (which are, by far, the most permissive of the three in my link), however, are graded by 5dB.
Yes, certainly that's precisely what one would think if one made no attempt whatsoever to research the event or the movement beyond asking a third party for a hearsay opinion on slashdot. And why would you? it's not like there's any information available on the internet or anything.
Here is the clip. YouTube is processing it now (might take a few minutes). The HD version should also be at the same link in an hour or so (again, YouTube processing time).
The footage is a bit rough since I just threw it together now. However you kind of get the idea. People were standing around just watching and the police decided to disperse the crowd with the sound cannon. Apologies for the bad camera work - we weren't filming anything in particular and the police refused to let us set up near the major news networks. Interestingly, they also pushed back another Japanese news network.
They only use it as needed in brief bursts. I'm sure there's probably some "training" they make the users of the device go through, just like the training they do for the Taser.
Therefore just like the Taser, this weapon will never be abused.
Decibels are logarithmic, base 10 (meaning for every 10+ it is 10x stronger).
115 for 15 minutes
125 for 1.5 minutes
135 for 9 seconds
145 for .9 seconds
150 for some small number I don't feel like calculating but you get the point.
The use of agents provocateurs is standard practice at these sort of events. You can't legally break up a peaceful riot, so you send men in, incite the crowd, and then break up the riot you started. It happened at the last G20 in london. It happened at the WTO protests in Seattle. And you can bet your ass it's happening here.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
In demonstrations all over the planet, the dudes in the ski masks are usually undercover pigs inciting violence. This is so old it ain't funny. They do it all the freaking time. They've gotten caught at it not once, but *numerous* times. I've seen it several times back in the nam protest days, and it continues. The "battle of seattle" has plenty of evidence on it, just effin google it (anyone), just tons of witnesses who saw the official cops in uniform and darth vader gear IGNORING the "black ski masked anarchists", either pigs or military pigs, who were allowed to rampage along, then beating peaceful people just walking or even just sitting someplace because of the "excuse" they got from their own guys. You want even worse? Google for "operation gladio", 100% proven verifiable fact, they freaking blew folks up and stuff like that, hits, assassinations, terrible "false flag" operations. This was POLICE AND MILITARY doing it to their own people, so they could blame it on..others. Phony "terrorists".
And I also know some cops *personally* who have been ORDERED to do this shit. It's COMMON. I know military veterans who have done this in war areas, commit massacres on villagers then plant evidence so it looked like the "bad guys" did it. They told me about it, they didn't like it, but close to getting a pension, you do what you are told, and the younger ones dig it, they love it, they are violence freaks. That's all they hire as cops anymore, steroid popping violence freaks, mostly with military combat experience where every one they see is a "target" or could be.
Now, I wasn't at this latest protest deal, but I'd bet something similar is going on, because it is their standard modus operandi. Not to say it is always that case, but it is WAY more common than not.
Further to the impulse specs, I'm reasonably sure that maximum recommended limits for noise here is 85dB for 8 hours before it is likely that some sort of long term hearing damage will occur.
Each 3dB increase halves the exposure time. Just for fun, let's work some numbers.
88dB = 4 hours
91dB = 2 hours
94dB = 1 hour
97dB = 30 minutes
100dB = 15 minutes
103dB = 7.5 minutes
106dB = 195 seconds
109dB = 97.5 seconds
112dB = 48.75 seconds
115dB = 24 seconds
118dB = 12 seconds
121dB = 6 seconds
124dB = 3 seconds
127dB = 1.5 seconds
130dB = 0.75 seconds
Do I need to follow this through any further?
You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
There is a lot of hype here.
A very mainstream reporter for the Guardian (a major national UK newspaper) documented her direct experience of an undercover police officer agitating for violence at a protest in London. He was showing people how to unhook barriers and trying to persuade people (unsuccessfully) to charge the police. Even a little common sense indicates some of the more violent protestors in London were undercover police. For example, in a protests involving thousands, lasting from morning into the night, suddenly a few people in balaclavas kick in a window whilst coincidentally surrounded by photographers. And were they arrested? No. There were proven police agitators masquerading as protestors at a city in the US, but I'm afraid I don't recall what the event was. The UK police have also engaged in what is now called "kettling" where they push as many people together as possible and keep them there in a confined area. There's no actual reason for it, but it does make for some good photos and a better chance you'll get to arrest someone for trying to get out of it.
You say that the legitimate arguments of the protestors are obscured by "these cretins". To that I point out that police forces have been proven quite willing to provide these people for exactly that purpose and secondly, its the media that are the problem. After all, is it natural or logical that three people kicking in a window should grab all the media coverage rather than the thousand-times that number of people peacefully protesting and making intelligent cases for why they are protesting to anyone who'll listen? No, it doesn't make sense, so why do the media focus on these minor and outlying cases? Honestly, in London, there's a window being kicked in somewhere on any day you care to mention. So can you really blame some bloke in a ski mask that there's so little actual interviews and coverage of the hundreds, often thousands, demonstrating about an important issue? No, you have to blame the media for that.
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
I don't see any "anarchists in ski masks committing acts of violence and vandalism" in any footage of this weapon being used. There are people standing around peacefully. A loudspeaker orders the peaceful crowd to disperse, "by order of the Pittsburgh chief of police", as if the Pittsburgh chief of police has the right to override people's right to peaceably assemble. Still nobody does anything violent, and then the police fire a weapon at the protestors.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
if they came across legally or were refugees that's fine and dandy. if they ford across the Rio Grande in the middle of the night without going through the proper legal channels, then yeah, i have a problem with that. i live in the States and have a couple friends who got married to "foreigners"... and it was a long, difficult process to get their spouses to become citizens. they endured the process. it's not fair for all of the border jumpers to magically come live in the states or become citizens...they should go through the process as well. they cheat the system.
Please note that OSHA does not permit ANY intermittent exposure, for any duration, above 115 dB(A), and also limits impact/impulse noise to 140 dB(A) even when wearing hearing protection
150 dB(A) in the presence of non-protected individuals is off-the-charts ridiculous and in the workplace would (a) get you shut down by OSHA and (b) get your (easily, successfully) sued by your victims.
This is one case where I hope an ambulance chaser finds a few good victims and sues this police department back to the stone ages.
one of my photos of the back of the sound cannon used at the pittsburgh g20. if you look at the original size, you can actually read the volume controls, etc.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/corycousins/3952099124/in/set-72157622324331579/
In order for the cops to have more effective use of tear gas, it was a crime to possess a protective mask (or materials that could be used as such).
The cops can have protectives masks. Everyone else could not.
But bone conduction is most effective with low frequencies -- this device uses the higher frequencies where entrance through the ears is more important.
150 or so police officers
By saying "or so" I'm assuming that 0 is included in this estimate? Seriously, do you have any reference at all for this number? How the hell was this modded interesting?
And with hearing loss you risk Tinnitus, which is the #1 cause of disability in veterans from the war and a debilitating disease without cure. So what a terrible thing to do exposing entire crowds to that hell of an illness.
There's actually video of this happening in Canada. Several masked "demonstrators" got identified as cops by real demonstrators, and eventually went through police lines to escape being unmasked.
The video is online at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St1-WTc1kow, and you can get more details here: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2007/08/22/ot-police-070822.html - the old guy in the video who tries to get their masks off is a union leader.
This is treason, pure and simple. Any government agent who behaves in this way is knowingly betraying their country, along with any superior officer with knowledge that this is happening.
It is a more significant crime than murder.
Well, if your employer exposed you to 151 dB, it WOULD be against the law (scroll down for table G-16 and read the footnote, maximum impulse noise level is 140 dB):
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=standards&p_id=9735
Also note that OSHA standards are weak. Most otolaryngolgists will tell you that 80dB for an 8 hour period is injurious. OSHA allows for 90dB.
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
They want you to forget that document because the same document suggests that keeping and bearing arms to make it possible to revolt and overturn the government when tyranny reigns.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
"I do, and I'm so old I remember when neighborhoods hadn't upped the stakes by becoming violent hellholes where cops didn't need military gear."
1. Internal community violence is nowhere near new, and has never been promoted as a response to police. The framing of escalating community violence as "upped stakes" is absolutelyÂnonsense.
2. Cops do not deploy in neighborhood patrols with these accoutrements. Apart from the psychological warfare of dark dress (and increasingly, dark squad carsâ"more and more of which I've seen with black identifying lettering on black paint), they reserve the militarization for political demonstrations. It's clear from this that the purpose of these accoutrements is not to deal with supposed "violent hellholes", but to deal with political opposition.
"The only answer to force is superior force."
Nonsense. An entirely reasonable answer to the sort of disorganized violence you're speaking of is to address the underlying and reasonable complaints and conditions that inspire and fuel said violence. Which is to say, addressing marginalization of options besides violence.
Further, saying that the answer to force is superior force presumes that said superior force is inherently and unerringly justified.
"The cops do protect me and my "turf", so me and millions like me don't mind if they inflict casualties on the enemy while they hold the thin blue line. I live a peaceful life and do not prey on others."
Since we're getting anecdotal... I will forego my preferred point, which is to point out that the concept of well-off predators is largely a fairy tale and that the real predators are by and large akin to Eichmann (I don't ship bodies to death camps, I just arrange the train schedules!). Instead, I'll respond with personal anecdote:
I was once beaten by a police officer, using a bicycle as a weapon. I was, at the time, on a city sidewalk, clearing pepper spray out of a kid's eyes with antacid. I witnessed the pepper spraying of this kid (and at least a couple hundred others like him), who was (like the rest of those around him) doing nothing resembling predation or force, and was indeed only exercising his right to express grievances against a government official (Tom Ridge, if you must know... and he and his Homeland Security cohorts were spotted watching out of a hotel window, drinking beers and cheering). I'll skip asking what act of predation, or force, these protestors committed to deserve victimization by "superior force". I'll ask: what did I do, by providing first aid, that constitutes predation or force? Why did I deserve to be beaten with a bicycle?
To add another anecdote, I was once arrested while marching in a permitted demonstration (and here I'll add, as I did in another comment, that the requirement for parade permits to assemble has been ruled unconstitutional; but nonetheless, the permit had been secured). I was toward the end of the march, and was being pushed and ordered by police officers out of the street. I asked why, and was told that I would be arrested if I did not vacate the street. I asked what law I was breaking, at which point a cop asked what he could say or do to get me out of the street. My response: "you can tell me what law I'm breaking." HIs response: "okay, you're under arrest." Again, what was I doing that constitutes predation or force?
The subtext of your comment says a lot more, though, than the actual text of the comment. What you're saying, to me, is this: "I am privileged, and police protect that privilege. I think they're right to do so, and those who don't are my enemies. Force should be used to prevent them from vocalizing any challenge to this arrangement."
So the message of the protesters is that we should shut up and listen?
Essentially, yeah. Except the shutting-up part is optional. And after the listening there should ideally be an action phase.
interesting that they would be using this device at about the same time the coup government of Honduras used it against the embassy of Brazil where the constitutional president is. In the clip they used the LRAD is used only for a few seconds at a time... maybe minutes. In Honduras they used it for most of a night. There were not witnesses since they beat back any press (even CNN), international observers, Red Cross, etc.
I think that American Technology Corp. the manufacturer of this thing, will see a boost in sales with all the publicity the device is getting throughout the world. It is a great thing to be able to deliver punishment at a distance, to "torture without touching." I can see US-friendly governments that like to dispense collective punishment, lining up to get a hold of these toys for their goons. Just lovely.
What is their problem with the G20 meetings? Losing national sovereignty to world political bodies that circumvent individual country's political systems and constitutions by setting policy that directly affects the lives of citizens without being directly accountable (ie:voting). That is my personal problem with these meetings. The EU is an example of countries losing national sovereignty in this manner. It starts out with trade agreements like NAFTA and progresses from there. The punks that get the media attention you speak of are generally provocateurs. They are planted to give a rational for the excessive force the police exercise on protesters. That is my opinion though. Honestly, if the protesters want to express their opinion, they should be allowed to irrespective of the validity of their arguments or what they want to accomplish. Basic human rights are being violated, and everyone is debating on whether the protester's viewpoint is credible.
The Canadian Exchange rate has shifted from about 1.8 to 1.1. In the same time the wage rates in the US have remained the same.
If it costs me $100 USD to manufacture a chair in the US, the comparative cost for a Canadian to purchase that chair has changed from $180 to $110 Canadian. That's a nice discount.
If the Canadian cost to manufacture that same chair is $130 Canadian you have shifted the Chair industry from a Canada to US trade to a US to Canada Trade.
And we currently have all these things in effect this last year. Wages have not changed but the dollar is very weak. And that is how we will eventually compete with Mexico and China.
Price Decline. Costs are continually declining because manufacture is always more efficient. That's the result of competition. But this is balanced against inflation and so Prices remain stable. Computer costs have fallen faster than inflation can accommodate but food has risen with inflation.
Who benefits from Inflation?
Those who owe debt. The Government.
Which still holds true for gold. Exchange value is, by definition, only as good as those willing to use it. Walk into the back country in Africa where the richest tribesman is the one with the most cows, and all your gold bullion is so much shiny ballast.
Gold's actual commodity value is low. You can make shiny things, and it has a handful of industrial applications, but outside of that gold has no more inherent value than pictures of George Washington.
But, many people in our society -- people like yourself -- still have some belief that gold is some special store of value. And so long as many people believe that, it will be true.
Personally, if I were looking for a store a value to survive an economic collapse, I'd invest in quality tools, weapons, drugs, and arable land.
Reserve banking predates the abandonment of the gold standard.
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You cannot wash away blood with blood