Slashdot Mirror
Reddit Javascript Exploit Spreading Virally
Nithendil writes "guyhersh from reddit.com describes the situation (warning: title NSFW): Based on what I've seen today, here's what went down. Reddit user Empirical wrote javascript code where if you copied and pasted it into the address bar, you would instantly spam that comment by replying to all the comments on the page and submitting it. Later xssfinder posted a proof of concept where if you hovered over a link, it would automatically run a Javascript. He then got the brilliant idea to combine the two scripts together, tested it and it spread from there."
"NoScript FTW!" comments commencing in 3... 2... 1...
I skimmed the FAQ on the first link, and it seems reddit is responsible for not scrubbing input.
Next!
it will hopefully educate webmasters to stop programming their sites in a way that requires javascript even for basic functionality.
*cough*Slashdot*cough*
No, it won't. The other 6 million javascript exploits didn't do that. What makes you think this one will?
Just as exploits in the image processing components of web browsers will hopefully educate people to surf in Lynx? Or exploits in their HTML rendering will hopefully educate people to surf by piping wget through less?
This was not because of Javascript, nor is Javascript going away because of this.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Hey, everyone, there is a javascript exploit on Reddit! Click on these links to Reddit to learn more.
Incidentally, this old sock smells awful. You should smell it.
As a web developer, I beg to differ. There is absolutely no excuse for writing a page that doesn't 'fail gracefully' when javascript isn't present. Let's face it, for every reputable page out there (att.net, youtube.com, etc) there are a hundred others designed by average joe-schmo webprogrammers. And lord only knows if they designed their page securely, and lord only knows if someone has hacked them and injected malicious scripts. I seem to recall hearing a few weeks ago that the majority of malicious scripts were being put into hollywood celebrity gossip sites that people were hitting off their google searches.
For me, the solution is to just whitelist the sites I visit frequently, only allowing scripts/cookies when I know they can be trusted. I'm not saying that you shouldn't design without javascript, but I am saying that you shouldn't assume that everyone visiting your page is going to have it. Besides, how hard is it to write a page that vomits up its contents in a readable form when the javascript doesn't run to position all the css objects? It doesn't have to look pretty, but it should be usable.
There's a huge difference in complexity between image/HTML renderer and Javascript. Image file formats and HTML pages are not Turing complete, while Javascript is. Consequently, the former are "safe" in that it's possible to prove that a particular implementation is free of exploits that would allow running arbitrary code, while Javascript by definition can never be; the whole point of Javascript is to allow arbitrary code execution, so the best you could ever prove is that the code never leaves the confines of the Web browser - but having a script post comments does not require that.
Yes, this was because of Javascript, but no, sadly it won't be going away.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Any proposal that relies on any group of people to not be idiots is doomed to failure.
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
Years ago I actually proposed to the W3C and the mozilla bunch to add a tag to disable dynamic stuff like javascript.
Basically it would work something like this:
<shield lock="some_random_hard_to_guess_string_here" enabled="basic_html_only">
The browser will only recognize basic HTML stuff here, it won't recognize javascript or any _future_ dynamic stuff that the W3C or browser people think off
</shield unlock="some_random_hard_to_guess_string_here">
The some_random_hard_to_guess_string_here would be different for each page.
The idea is while the website should still have filters, even if in the future the W3C or browser wiseguys create some new fangled way of inserting javascript or some other dynamic content that the filters do not protect against (since it's new and the filters have not been updated), the browser will just ignore the new stuff that some hacker inserts when it's between the tags.
To me the current state of things is a bit crazy - basically it's like having a car with 1000 gas pedals (tags) and to stop the car you have to make sure all 1000 pedals are not pressed (escaped or filtered). There is not a single brake pedal! And worse, the W3C or MS or Mozilla or whoever could introduce a new gas pedal, and you the website operator have to filter out the new gas pedal when it's introduced.
With something like this tag there is a brake pedal, so even if you don't manage to filter out all the 1000 gas pedals, the brake helps to keep stuff safe.
If they had implemented such a tag, the google and myspace worms would not have worked for so many browsers.
FWIW, these sort of worms are not new. I managed to find a hole in advogato some years ago (iframe worm) - and hence my suggestion to the W3C and Mozilla.
But it seems to me than NONE of them are really interested in improving security. They're all just interested in inventing new gas pedals for people (and hackers) to step on. They're not even interested in creating a single brake pedal. They just pay lip service to security.
See the thing is - it's not too difficult to code a browser to go "OK from now on there's no such thing as javascript till I see a valid unlock tag", so even if there is a browser parsing bug and a hacker manages to insert javascript via a stupid browser bug (that the website filters naturally do not and cannot cater for) it does NOT matter - since javascript will be disabled - between those tags the browser will be respecting the flag that says "I do not know javascript, java and all that fancy stuff" - it does not even have to parse javascript - since for all intents and purposes between those tags, the browser does not know there's such a thing as javascript (or activex or flash etc).
This is very useful for sites that have to include 3rd party content - sites like slashdot or webmail sites or even sites that serve up ads from 3rd parties.
So by advising people to disable Javascript, I'm doing my part for killing off "Web Applications" and getting us back to good old Web Pages. Excellent.
Seriously, why would I want "dynamic content" when all that really means is a thousand pauses as more data is fetched? Give me static pages whenever possible. Better yet, give me a single large static page rather than a dozen small pages, so I don't have to wait while the next page is being loaded and rendered.
The solution is to understand that most web sites are not applications, from the users point of view, and stop stuffing them full of scripts that do nothing but slow things down.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
It's 2009. We should be able to use the internet the way it is intended, with javascript. Javascript isn't the problem, poor programming on reddit's behalf is the problem.
Similes are like metaphors
This isn't a lesson about javascript. It is a lesson we should have learned from Bobby Tables a long time ago. This shouldn't have been possible regardless of javascript.
For those not in the know: http://xkcd.com/327/
This is not a weakness or an exploit, it's simply a javascript bookmarklet. You could make something like this for any site, such as Slashdot.
It's only an exploit if you can force other people to run that code without their consent.
Yes, this was because of Javascript, but no, sadly it won't be going away.
So, all bots that crawl forums to spam them are Javascript? Honestly, if Javascript could do this, I wonder what a more complex bot could have done. Are we all going to lament about the programming language that some forum bot was written in? C? Python?
"Yes, this was because of C, but no, sadly it won't be going away."
Can't see why people get such a hardon bashing Javascript. "Because it's not a real programming language!"? I guess it's the same mentality that leads people to bash PHP, Perl, Ruby, ASP, etc. etc.
I look at it this way. Javascript is a tool and bad programming is bad programming and sadly, bad programming won't be going away.
I've lost all my marbles except one & It's fun to test angular & centripetal acceleration in my skull
There is absolutely no excuse for writing a page that doesn't 'fail gracefully' when javascript isn't present.
Yes there is. Making your page fail gracefully takes extra time and resources, which could be put to better use than supporting the 1% of users who choose to handicap their browsers by turning off javascript.
Failing gracefully is an important concern, but its not the only concern, and should be balanced against other priorities.
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