Slashdot Mirror


New Bill Proposes Open Source Requirement for Publicly Funded Books

fsufitch writes "On September 30th, the 'Open College Textbook Act of 2009' was introduced to the Senate and referred to committee. The bill proposes that all educational materials published or produced using federal funds need to be published under open licenses. The reasoning behind it takes into account the changing way information is distributed because of the Internet, the high price of college and textbooks, and the dangerously low college graduation rates in the US. Will a bill such as this endanger publishing companies in the same way Internet journalism endangers traditional journalism?"

25 of 317 comments (clear)

  1. Seems fair to me. by WiiVault · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If the public pays for the research and creation they should have access to the intellectual product for no additional fee. It's silly that it isn't this way now. Of course we can all thank our corrupt congress critters for that.

    1. Re:Seems fair to me. by causality · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If the public pays for the research and creation they should have access to the intellectual product for no additional fee. It's silly that it isn't this way now. Of course we can all thank our corrupt congress critters for that.

      Look at the reasons given in the summary:

      The reasoning behind it takes into account the changing way information is distributed because of the Internet, the high price of college and textbooks, and the dangerously low college graduation rates in the US.

      Those are all reasons of convenience. There is no principle in them. I don't fault the summary or its author for viewing it this way, as I believe it just reflects where we're at in this superficial society. As you say, there is an overriding reason why any textbooks produced by open funds need to be released with open licenses: because the public is paying the tab and therefore has a right to it. If the publishers don't like that, they can produce and sell goods on their own with no such assistance like almost every other company. This is the outcome that should happen regardless of whether it's convenient or inconvenient for anyone. It sure would be nice if that were more widely appreciated.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    2. Re:Seems fair to me. by Sir_Dill · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Another way to think about it is this.

      I have already paid for it to be produced because my tax dollars funded the work.

      Since digital replication is essentially free, there are no ongoing production costs for a digital edition beyond the initial work and annual updates (which one would assume are covered by additional public funding)

      Sure you can argue that bandwidth costs money, and disk space costs money, but the reality is that the cost per unit is so low, it would cost more in transaction fees than the actual cost resulting in a net loss on the transaction.

      I am more than happy to cover the printing costs on a hard copy provided they are the actual printing costs and not some inflated figure that the publisher wants to charge

      Say what you want about e-readers, eventually they will supplant books in mainstream society. I am not saying that it's going to happen in this or the next generation but perhaps in three generations we may see people who will prefer an electronic book to the "real thing".

      Just like there are folks who like to dress up in victorian era clothing, there will always be people who prefer "real books" to an e-book.

      Bottom line, we are with ebooks very close to where we were with MP3's a decade ago.

      They (MP3's) did not really gain popularity until the devices to play them became readily available and affordable.

      Until we can make the jump to digital textbooks, regardless of where the money comes from, I don't think changing the licensing is going to make enough of the difference to shift the paradigm to more affordable/available textbooks.

      Besides, it doesn't matter if you read the material or did the coursework. If you don't pay for the privilege of going to school, you don't get a degree and it doesn't change the statistics one bit.

    3. Re:Seems fair to me. by amicusNYCL · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's fine then, that means more public funds available for other projects.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    4. Re:Seems fair to me. by TheSpoom · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Of course we can all thank our corrupt congress critters for that.

      Which is why there is precisely zero chance that this bill will pass.

      This is the best type of bill: one that's put forward because someone sees that something being done now could be done in a better way. But publishers have lobbyists and cash, and those always trump the public interest in the US House of Representatives.

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
    5. Re:Seems fair to me. by zolltron · · Score: 5, Informative

      If this bill passes, it won't change anything. The professors that write these books will simply reject the U.S. funds

      That's just not possible. Almost all universities run on federal funds. If a given professor's research isn't sponsored by federal funds, the cost of the building in which she works almost certainly is (at least in part). The concept of "rejecting" U.S. funds is like rejecting your paycheck, you worked hard to earn it, you take it.

      and get money from other places like IBM, Microsoft, Ford, and so on.

      These places are giving out money for biology, chemistry, theoretical high energy physics, english, history, philosophy, sociology, psychology?!? Maybe a little, but not much.

      Professors want to be reimbursed for their many hours of work, not give books away for free (or cheap).

      First, we (professors) are reimbursed, we're paid by our university to produce exactly this sort of work. So, professors who are being paid for their textbooks are (in a sense) double dipping. We are also grossly underpaid for the amount of work and the level of qualifications, so I can't really fault someone for this, but it is double dipping.

      Second, we don't get much for books. We do give them away for cheap.

    6. Re:Seems fair to me. by slinches · · Score: 5, Funny

      or the taxpayers get to keep more of their own money

      --
      Knowledge Brings Fear
    7. Re:Seems fair to me. by cetialphav · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The professors that write these books will simply reject the U.S. funds

      What kind of a world do you live in where professors reject money? That just doesn't happen. Being a researcher means being on a constant quest for funding much like being a politician means always seeking campaign contributions. Professors make very little money from publishing a textbook. They do it for the prestige of being the person who literally "wrote the book on the subject." There is no financial reason for a professor to turn down funding because the text will have to be freely available. All academics want their work to be easily available and widely referenced. It is the publishers that want to tie up the content.

    8. Re:Seems fair to me. by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The professors that write these books will simply reject the U.S. funds and get money from other places like IBM, Microsoft, Ford, and so on.

      A couple more reasons why this won't happen:
      1. Most professors aren't after cash for their personal bank account. They may be after cash for their research and teaching projects. That's because in academia the primary currency isn't the Almighty Buck but the Almighty Published Research. Among other things, they're usually smart enough that they could make a lot more money working on Wall St, Madison Ave, or a top-notch law firm if they'd been motivated primarily by personal income. A professor motivated by prestige rather than cash would be happy to see their work spread as far and wide as possible to as many people as possible as cheaply as possible.

      2. Many professors who are listed as authors of textbooks don't write the books, and almost never create the new editions. The books are typically written by ghostwriters at the textbook publishing house, and the professor acts as a subject-matter consultant.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    9. Re:Seems fair to me. by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      public private partnership(n): The public gets the bills, a private owner (who happens to be a county commissioner's brother-in-law) gets the profits.

      At least, that's usually how it works.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  2. Yep by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Will a bill such as this endanger publishing companies in the same way Internet journalism endangers traditional journalism?"

    Yep. That's why it'll never pass - expect large amounts of money to flow into key campaign coffers to put an end to this nonsense before it gets started. At some point we need to have congressmen who aren't bought and paid for by special interests.

    By the way - for those of you who say "yeah, but this open source stuff is a special interest, too", no, it isn't. It's a *general interest*. It benefits everybody but a select few, rather than benefiting a select few at the expense of everybody else.

    1. Re:Yep by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Prior to CSPAN the Congress used to actually sit on the floor. After CSPAN they started hiding behind closed doors. So really CPSAN didn't reveal government - it just drove it underground.

      What we REALLY need to do is ban all contributions except those that come from registered voters. If you're not a voter, you can't donate to a Congresscritter's campaign. That would eliminate bribes from corporations which skew our system.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    2. Re:Yep by digsbo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      First Hand Evidence: I had a textbook for a music theory class that was two years old. It was IDENTICAL to the current edition; they were switching two chapters in the front of the book every year as a means of planned obsolescence, so as long as you had an odd-year printed book during an odd year (or even/even) you were ok.

    3. Re:Yep by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "sell it for $100+"
      I see you haven't been in college in awhile. $100 is fucking cheap. Book now are at LEAST $175. Books that might actually be useful after college (some are great for reference) are $225 and up. I'm not exaggerating in the slightest here. That's literally what they cost.

      Every new addition has slightly different problem sets and the chapters are rearranged quite a lot. If you've ever taken a look at a book in its 10th or high edition you'll notice that the professor's syllabus for the book is "chapters: 5,4,8,9,1,15" IN THAT ORDER. This is because the first few editions of the book were laid out logically and the updates had significant content. After a few revisions, there isn't much to change and therefore no reason to buy the book. They go ahead and rearrange chapters so that attempting to use an old book will result in lots of confusion when trying to find the homework chapters/reading/problems.

      Profs. hate this just as much as the students do because they have to constantly rework their syllabus to fit the new chapters. This results in the profs wanting to use the same edition book for years and years. The book publishers figured out that this is impossible if they stop publishing their old editions. Thus, profs can't require the old book because there's nowhere to buy it.

      Textbook publishers are swimming in so much cash that it's fucking absurd. It should actually be criminal. Seriously, criminal. I would support a law that required educational textbooks to be placed in the public domain after the original author stops publishing them (and of course define a minimum publishing quantity). There would be plenty of people that would publish and sell these "old" books just above cost.
      This would solve everything actually. Textbook publishers would have to add content to their books for people to want to buy the newest editions... what a shocking concept.

      Oh, and I almost forgot to mention the shitty "online content" that comes bundles with a lot of these books. It's either a CD that has some animations (software is windows only, of course) or, more recently, an "online access code" that gives you the ability to access a few animations/problems online. The CD isn't going to work in a few years because it won't support the new OS, the internet code is only good for a semester. In either case, it's just a scam to add another $20-40 to the overall price of the book.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
  3. Don't know, don't care by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Will a bill such as this endanger publishing companies in the same way Internet journalism endangers traditional journalism?

    If you accept public money, you have to accept public obligations. I'd have no sympathy for a publisher that received federal funding but disliked the conditions put on it.

    --
    Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
  4. Not worried... by nine-times · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Will a bill such as this endanger publishing companies in the same way Internet journalism endangers traditional journalism?

    And if it does, then what?

    It's not the government's job to protect particular business models or industries from technological innovation. It's also not particularly the government's job, in my opinion, to go out of its way to give money to private companies without a compelling public interest. Even before open source licenses were commonplace, I would have argued that any intellectual property generated with public funds should automatically be put into the public domain. Making it open source is a possible alternative, but if materials are generated with my tax dollars, I shouldn't generally have to pay again to use them.

    1. Re:Not worried... by NoYob · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not the government's job to protect particular business models or industries from technological innovation.

      I'm in the:

      • Steel
      • Automotive
      • Banking
      • Farming
      • Airline
      • Fishing
      • Teaching
      • Semiconductor
      • Defense

      industries you insensitive clod!

      --
      It's NOT me! It's the meds! I'm on 1000mg of Fukitol.
  5. Seems like a good idea but strange motivations by JoshuaZ · · Score: 5, Insightful
    At a philosophical level, this is a really good idea. There's no good reason that taxpayer money should go to things which aren't available to taxpayers. This is the same logic as making publicly funded research need to appear openly. However I'm puzzled a bit by the summary:

    The reasoning behind it takes into account the changing way information is distributed because of the Internet, the high price of college and textbooks, and the dangerously low college graduation rates in the US

    The fraction of the population that has gone to college had been steadily increasing over the last 50 years. One major result of that is that what constitutes a college education has in many ways been reduced. There are good and bad arguments about what has happened with college education over the last few years but there's no plausible way to describe the college graduation rate as dangerously low unless one thinks that a priori everyone should graduate college like everyone should graduate high school. That's not an easy case to make.

    1. Re:Seems like a good idea but strange motivations by thisnamestoolong · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There are good and bad arguments about what has happened with college education over the last few years but there's no plausible way to describe the college graduation rate as dangerously low unless one thinks that a priori everyone should graduate college like everyone should graduate high school. That's not an easy case to make.

      This is not even to mention the fact that the only reason a college degree ever meant anything in the first place is the not everyone was capable of getting one. This is because college was hard, and you had to be of above average intelligence to be able to graduate. To make college so that everyone can graduate, you need to dumb down the material significantly, so the truly gifted get screwed twice -- 1) Their degree means nothing because everyone else had one and 2) they got a lousy education because the professors had to simplify everything so that the dumbasses could pass.

      --
      To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
  6. Killing publishers by FuegoFuerte · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Will a bill such as this endanger publishing companies in the same way Internet journalism endangers traditional journalism?

    We can only hope it will kill the publishers, the way they've been killing US college kids for years. Do you think college kids would eat such a steady diet of ramen noodles if they weren't spending all their money on textbooks? Have you ever compared the cost of textbooks in the US to the SAME books overseas? Take a look at amazon.co.uk sometime and compare a textbook there to the same book in the US. The only difference is likely that one says "international version" on the cover. Oh, and it'll be less than half the price.

    No, a bill such as this won't endanger publishing companies... publishing companies have endangered themselves by pissing off their customers with insanely high pricing. Maybe something like this would finally bring competition to the textbook industry and help make school a little more affordable.

  7. Why not everything created with federal dollars? by edrobinson · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Seems to me that anything - books, medical procedures and devices, pharmaceuticals, etc. - belong to the public and we should not have to pay for them...

  8. Great idea, but... by PvtVoid · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is a laudable notion, but it has a huge loophole: how do we determine that the time an author spent working on a book was funded by the government? Consider a university scientist on an NSF grant. Such a scientist is typically paid salary off the grant for two months per year, with nine months paid in university salary, and one month not at all. The scientist files grant progress reports every year indicating what she did with the grant money, aside from surfing porn. If she doesn't want to open-source a book, she simply doesn't claim it as a grant-related activity, and instead publishes it for-profit and keeps the royalties.

    I suspect that this will only result in academic books being open-sourced which were already published at a loss, for example by university presses. Anything likely to make a substantial profit will still be closed source.

  9. Pattern here. by TheWizardTim · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I noticed a pattern here with Congress.

    Step One. Propose a law that would hurt an industry.
    Step Two. Receive large campaign donations to stop that law.
    Step Three. ???
    Step Four. Re-election!

  10. Write your elected officials in support! by whistlingtony · · Score: 4, Informative

    Hey all,

    Just remember, saying you're all for it on an internet forum doesn't actually do anything... Write your elected officials in support of S.1714, the "Open College Textbook Act of 2009". Here are some links, just in case you're THAT lazy....

    http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml
    https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml
    http://takeaction.lwv.org/lwv/dbq/officials/

    Remember to get the senate AND the house.

    -T

  11. politics by shentino · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Who wants to bet that the publisher's lobby is going to have this bill killed?