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Did Chicago Lose Olympic Bid Due To US Passport Control?
An anonymous reader writes "Yesterday, Chicago lost its bid for the 2016 Olympics (which went to Rio de Janeiro instead), and it's looking very likely that US border procedures were one of the main factors which knocked Chicago out of the race: 'Among the toughest questions posed to the Chicago bid team this week in Copenhagen was one that raised the issue of what kind of welcome foreigners would get from airport officials when they arrived in this country to attend the Games. Syed Shahid Ali, an I.O.C. member from Pakistan, in the question-and-answer session following Chicago's official presentation, pointed out that entering the United States can be "a rather harrowing experience." ... The exchange underscores what tourism officials here have been saying for years about the sometimes rigorous entry process for foreigners, which they see as a deterrent to tourism.'"
I'm a peaceful Norwegian with two (many years ago) convictions for possession of small amounts (1-2 joints) of marihuana. My grandmother wants to take me to visit our family in Boston next year, and I'm not looking forward to it at all because of one thing only: US border control and visa stupidity. The US is the only country in the world to care about a stupid posession misdemeanor - I could go anywhere else without issue at all..
I thought that was the whole point.
What's that? They're for stopping TERRORISM, you say? Naaaaah, can't be.
(I once went one a round-the-world holiday. At Fiji's passport control, they gave us garlands, and serenaded us with guitars; at US passport control they growled at us.)
We once took pride in saying we were a melting pot of nations (racism aside). Now we're about the same, except we're a melting pot of xenophobes (maybe not at the citizen level, but definitely at the administrative/political level.
Sad to see the great American nation turn from something I was once very proud of to one that I've considered, quite a few times, to up and leave.
I can give you a personal example of this - my father is a 76-year old western european citizen, and has been to the US easily a hundred times and was a US resident for over a decade. And as a merchant, he's spent easily many hundred of thousands on goods in the US over the past 40 years. Last Christmas, he came over to see us, and at the local International Airport he was pulled aside, patted down, his baggage and items gone over in detail, and interrogated for 20 minutes. Why? No reason given. As a result, he doesn't want to come to the US at all any more, so we have to go visit in Europe or rendezvous in another 3rd country. Yea, I know, we get to go to Europe more often, but it's a lot more expensive & difficult to coordinate schedules and take the family than to have one person travel here.
I spent a lot of last year overseas on projects - and I heard over and over again from people that no longer think it's worth it to come to the US for shows/conferences/travel because of the travel restrictions and attitude toward non-US citizens by customs and immigration.
-a.e.mossberg
And get precleared through US immigration while still within a civilised country? No joking: if the Security Theatre misidentifies me as a notorious enemy of Freedemocracy, I'd rather prove my innocence to just about anyone except US "Homeland Security".
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Everyone I know who visits the USA these days tells me what a pain in the ass it is to travel here now. I'm sure everyone on the IOC knows all about that.
-jcr
I flew 8 hours from London to Dallas this year. On arrival, I then waited 2 hours at the airport, along with about 300 other aliens, while sullen border guards slowly checked passports, took photos and fingerprints (this often took several attempts per person), and asked seemingly innocent questions in slow, menacing voices. If I didn't know better, I would have thought they'd been trained in military interrogation techniques.
"And the meaning of words; when they cease to function; when will it start worrying you?"
I am a greencard holder, and this is how it went at the Newark airport on my return after a long break I took to visit my family in India:
The Lady in Uniform: How long were you there?
me: About 3 months.
TLIU: Why 3 months? That's too long.
me: Because I had not visited my family for a while and I needed a break.
TLIU:What were you doing there?
me: Being with family, visiting friends, seeing places.
TLIU: But 3 month is a long time for that.
me: Er..
It went on for 2 more minutes like this. I have no idea what she was trying to do there. I mean, which law I might have breaking for taking three months off work?
entering the US. Aren't they asking for retinal scans or fingerprints in some places, now?
no. not some places. Every entry point takes fingerprints of every visitor who is not a US Citizen or legal US Resident.
There is also some pain in the ass procedure that people have to do online. 24 hours before they get on the plane.
The US has just totally lost it both on the entry procedures AND airport security. The only place where the airport security is more of a useless pain in the ass is the UK, but it is a close race. The UK and the US seem to be competing with each other on who can make the most worthless security procedures.
-- -- Warning. Do not stare directly at the sun.
This thread seems to nicely demonstrate the national arrogance..
Could it possibly be that Rio won rather than the USA losing it?
After all, it's not like you deserved it at all. Invading lots of countries to do who-knows-what isn't consistent with the spirit of international harmony spread by the Olympics.
Feel free to mod me troll for telling it like it is :D
Requiem for the American Dream
I've organized some international events, and US border control policies and visa requirements are a big argument against holding them in the US.
Border control in Europe is very simple in my experience; people check whether your passport is on a list, and if it's not, they just wave you through. No fingerprinting, photographs, long lines, tricky questions, pre-registration, or interrogation booths. And despite that, Europe seems to have been doing no worse on terrorism or illegal immigration than the US.
My wife has permanent residency here in the US and I am a citizen . We used to be able to go through border control together and she was treated quite well. Now, she has to be fingerprinted (the fact that her fingerprints are already on file with immigration, has been through the interview process for permanent residency seem to make no difference).
I have permanent residency in her country, Singapore, as well. When we enter or exit Singapore, its quick and easy. Even before I had PR status, it was easier to get in and out of the country as a tourist than it was to get in and out of the US as a citizen. Land of the Free, my ass.
"My head hurts, My feet stink, and I dont love Jesus." -Jimmy Buffett
At the Olympics which did happen to be hosted in USA, in Atlanta, after all the nasty border control security the one terrorist act that actually occured was performed by a domestic terrorist.
Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
Unless something spectacular happens, the US is now on my permaban list.
True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
Once on a flight from Australia to Canada, my plane stopped to refuel at Hawaii airport.
When we were about an hour out approaching Hawaii, the flight attendants came around with US immigration cards for us to fill out. I was completely baffled and started to get seriously worried that I was on the wrong flight or some shit. I said to the attendant "But, we're going to Vancouver, right?". She replied "Yes, I'm sorry, everyone has to fill out a US immigration card". She seemed kinda puzzled by the whole thing too.
Not entirely put at ease, I started filling out the form, which was probably the most poorly laid-out and silliest form I've ever encountered in my life. Am I affiliated with the Nazi party? WTF is the matter with these people? I felt like I was being interrogated like a criminal suspect. Do I intend to commit acts of terrorism against the United States? Well right up until I was forced to fill out that form, I would have categorically said "no", but afterwards I have to admit my inclinations were changing in that regard.
My favourite question was "Why do you wish to enter the United States". I wrote down the only reasonable answer under the circumstances: "I don't".
So we all got off the plane, milled around Hawaii airport in swelteringly humid conditions for TWO HOURS, were forced to remove our shoes and finally, when it was my turn to meet the immigration official and hand in my stupid form, she looked at my answers, scowled at me and said "What does this mean, 'I don't'?".
I'm totally fucking serious. That's what she said.
I replied "It means just what it says. I don't wish to enter the United States."
She said, I shit you not, "Well why are you here then?".
Wow. Just ... wow. Here is a person whose job it is to enforce immigration policy and she doesn't even know that they force transit passengers who are not bound for the US to go through immigration? I feel an intense fury at the level of stupidity on display, but I clench my teeth and force myself to stay calm. After all, I don't want to get on the wrong side of this person/vegetable and get a finger stuck up my ass for my trouble.
After thinking for a moment about how I can explain the situation to a person of such ... limited mental faculty, I say "I'm going to Vancouver. My plane is refuelling here and apparently that means we have to go through US immigration?"
She levelling her blank stare at me for a few seconds, then shuffled some papers around while I stood there wondering what the hell kind of Twilight Zone bullshit I'd just wandered into. Then she stamped my passport, stapled the stupid form to it, muttered something at me and let me through. I had successfully visited the United States! Absent any consent or intention to do so! After all, it's not like travellers actually know which countries they want to go to. Better decide these things for them.
I then got back on my plane, sat in the exact same seat I had occupied two hours earlier, and we made our way to Vancouver.
When we arrived at Vancouver airport, a nice man in a suit asked me if I was a Canadian resident. I said "no" and with a polite "this way please sir" he directed me to the non-residents line. After waiting in the queue for about 5 minutes, the guy at the desk said "Oh you're from Australia. What brings you to Canada?" I said "Just here on holiday.". He asked "Gonna do any skiing while you're here?". I said "Maybe." He said "Cool.", stamped my passport and in I went.
Let's look at the contrast here. Canada treated me like a welcome visitor and the process was efficient and friendly. The US forced me to enter their country against my will whilst demanding that I explain why I was entering their country, and expected me to be grateful for the whole experience.
So in conclusion, I refuse to visit the US as long as this idiotic attitude prevails, and I think the IOC has made an eminently sensible choice regarding the 2016 Olympic Games.
They could really do us a solid if they were to make a big todo about the reciprocity. Most americans have no clue how bad it is because they don't have to suffer through it. If the brazilians would take the time to explain exactly why each american gets a symbolic anal cavity search, it would go a long way towards getting the problem fixed back here.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
I think it was in Gatwick, I was passing through the airport and I noticed that you could purchase a "token" for an express passage. When you used this token, it skips one of the checkpoints.
This was not so much of a security checkpoint, but a cash-grab checkpoint. I had my computer in my arm and a wheeling suitcase, which sums up to two pieces of luggage. This not only exceeds airline baggage allowance, but it violates a security policy.
Fortunately, there was a coffee shop next to the entry point, so I deeked out the lady working security and had a coffee while thinking about how to squeeze my laptop into my carry-on.
She was working alone and couldn't do much when she was trying to explain the one-bag policy. It seemed lots of people could slip past her, some had more than one bag.
So I waited for somebody to get stopped...
... then I slipped through the turnstile.
Next time, I pay for the token.
Of course reporting this or complaining about this could get me banned from flights and labelled a terrorist.
Before, it was both fun and funny: I've visited the US once and that was as a kid in 1992 and at the time, I, as a European, didn't need a visa but one did have to fill out a form which was pure comedy gold. It actually had questions such as "Have you participated in terrorist actions against the United States of America prior to 1986?" and then "...after 1986?" That's the one I remember clearly since I was wondering why 1986 was such a pivotal year but the rest were just as ridiculous. I think I have a copy of it somewhere since my mother, who was also on the trip, accidentally checked yes to some terrorist organization membership question and had to request a new one from the flight attendant but we could keep the other one. Maybe I should scan it in and post it somewhere for the amusement of everyone.
One question on it, however, did cause us some trouble since it was about how much money we brought into the country and what we estimated the value of our belongings to be and we had just bought a new, fancy camcorder. Since we tried to be honest, we probably overestimated everything a little and the customs agent actually asked why the total value of our belongings and cash was so high. Later on, it became clear to us that Americans probably don't carry as much cash on them as we usually do in Europe since at a shopping mall during the first day of our trip, a cashier almost told us we were nuts when we paid for ice cream with a $ 100 bill. My impression has become that Americans are much more fond of paying with credit cards than we are in Europe since noone I know thinks it's unusual to have 100-200 euros in your wallet.
Speaking as a long-time "Sidney" resident, I gotta say we were all a bit annoyed by the whole damned thing too, the fact they ripped up half the CBD, the endless news stories, the drama bombs, the wasted money, the roads that were all going to be closed, and all the general getting ready crap. People were wearing "Fuck The Olympics" shirts openly in the streets.
And then the games started.
And it was a fucking awesome enormous city wide party that lasted for 2-3 weeks, all the horrible concrete repeatedly torn up footpaths had been replaced with highly skatable and cable-friendly slate all through the centre city, there were no building sites anywhere, the pubs and bars were all full, and it just generally kicked ass.
While I don't by any means underestimate the ability of Londoners to put a negative light on something, I have this suspicion that it's the same for every city that hosts it. A sort of preparation and drama filled pregnancy, filled with hormonal outbursts and morning sickness.
Wait till the games actually start, it will be a different place.
I'm from the US, and I worry about crossing the border! Should I bring a laptop? Do I need to delete all personal information off it in case they take it at the border? If I get harassed at the border, and stick up for my constitutional rights as an American citizen, will I get tossed in jail?
When citizens have those sorts of concerns, I don't blame non-citizens for not wanting to come here. We've made the US completely hostile to tourism, because a dozen people came in LEGALLY, and launched a terrorist attack. which killed less people than a month's worth of auto accidents in this country.
Really, I wonder if it wouldn't be better for tourists to land in Mexico and just illegally enter the country. A ten hour hike through the desert seems less painful than trying to deal with the Border agency legally.
Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
You can bounce around Europe crossing borders with little more than a wave of your passport and a friendly nod.
A little less, in my experience. While walking around in Basel last December, I didn't even realize that I walked all the way to Germany, until I saw a sign that read "France this way," "Switzerland that way." I used process of elimination to discern my location. On my way back, I located the border by observing the changing proportion of license plates, and finally a change in street sign styles. The only distinctive feature at the frontier was a section of sidewalk being replaced. I wondered if there had been a little shack for border agents once on that spot.
I am not a crackpot.
I think they should have 2 sets of flights/gates/check-in lines at the airport: one for regular people who would like for their total check-in time to take less than their flight time, and one for the paranoid "OMG! that brown person is speaking in something other than English!" crowd.
This would greatly improve the traveling situation in the U.S. in several ways:
This way, airline passengers get a choice in whether or not they want to take part in the elaborate security theater, and everyone is happy. Heck, even the airlines will be happier since fewer people would be deterred from traveling so their profits would go up.
You can bounce around Europe crossing borders with little more than a wave of your passport and a friendly nod.
Sometimes even less than that. I visited The Netherlands and Germany in 2008. When crossing from The Netherlands into Germany I expected some big stop to at least check my passport. Nothing. The train was out between the countries (track work), so they had a bus. It never stopped, nobody asked me anything, and I got on the train in Germany without so much as a peep.
Meanwhile I took a separate trip to Tuscon Arizona this past spring. Driving around in my own country I was stopped at least 4-5 times by Homeland Gestapo to make sure I was still an American. They were nice and all, a friendly wave and "Are you a US Citizen?". Being a white guy with a US accent they just waved me through.. but still. For those of you that don't know, Homeland Gestapo sets up stops on northbound highways perhaps 20-30 miles from the U.S. Border (at least they do in Arizona). I find it absurd to be stopped IN MY OWN COUNTRY just to make sure I'm still a US Citizen.
AccountKiller
Every entry point takes fingerprints of every visitor who is not a US Citizen or legal US Resident
Strike that last part: I am a Legal Permanent Resident, and the last time I came in they wanted my picture and fingerprints too.
Every entry point takes fingerprints of every visitor who is not a US Citizen or legal US Resident.
Actually, the DHS at Chicago O'Hare electronically fingerprint all fingers of both hands and take a face photograph of returning legal US permanent residents.
In times past, that might have used to be the case. Nowadays, people near the border are reporting that those "defenceless" border posts aren't completely defenseless. If you cross-over and do not call, then you get pulled over by U.S. police or border patrol shortly afterwards. Granted, it isn't perfect security, but it is enough of a deterrent to make sure you use that phone.
The serious drug runners have other routes that they use. The U.S.-Mexico border has scary levels of security, and both drugs and illegal immigrants get through. The U.S. Navy patrols the sea routes into the U.S., and both drugs and illegal immigrants get through. Additionally, on a smaller scale, the U.S. can't even keep drugs out of its own jails.
More crime occurs across state lines than across the Canada-U.S. border. From a statistical point of view, the U.S.-Canada border is the safest border in the world. After a certain point, I think you need to ask: With all the security proposals, is anyone actually getting protected?
"International travel to the U.S. declined by 10 percent in the first quarter of 2009 according to the U.S. Department of Commerce. To lure visitors back, U.S. Travel has been pushing the Travel Promotion Act, which recently was passed in the Senate and is awaiting action in the House, to create a campaign to strengthen the image of the United States abroad."
The US has just announced a $10 fee that any visitor to the US must pay to enter the country. This is to be used to fund an internation publicity campaign. Putting two-and-two together, I assume this is the campaign that the fee is going to.
Draw footgun, fire!
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
The Homeland Gestapo wanted to search the trunk of my car. Why I have no idea. Maybe because it was 10 o'clock at night and they thought it odd a Marylander was driving through Texas, and just assumed I was transporting Mexicans. (shrug)
In any case the bastards made me stand in the cold night air for an hour while I steadfastly refused to open my trunk, and then finally let me go.
I should have filed a lawsuit - C64love v. United States
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
At this time Canada relies on trade with the US, but if they were smarter, and thought more long range, they wouldn't need to at all. They could be completely independent on energy and (most) manufactured goods and agriculture, then they would have the luxury of charging heavy premium prices for any exports, because they really wouldn't need exports then, nor much in the way of imports. Plus they could ignore all that border crossing nonsense for the most part. It is potentially the richest nation on earth per capita if you take their low population and compare it to land mass and available natural resources, including the largest amount of freshwater. They just need to diversify even more then they are now and stop selling off all their resources at sub wholesale rates for short term profits like some third world poverty stricken developing nation. They could go high end and develop the best quality this or that manufactured thing, and not even try to compete at the low range. If they don't watch it, they will become just a colony to be exploited by the US and China for all that wealth. They are half way there now as it is.
I don't recall any Olympics in Japan recently either.
Brazil doesn't fingerprint visitors (well, they were fingerprinting Americans for a while as revenge), and getting an entry visa is much easier, particularly if you're from certain parts of the world that the US doesn't like.
I have colleagues who can't travel to the US for scientific meetings because they can't get a visa, because of where they were born. Some others can get in, but they have to apply six months in advance and then it's kind of a crap shoot whether they actually get it in time or not.
I go to 3-4 computer science conferences a year. Last year, I went to one in the US. At the customs, I got singled out for no reason and taken into a room with other 50-60 people. I had to wait for a long time while a bully guard was saying that we were not American citizens so they had the right to search our luggage and retain us for as long as necessary (no one had asked him anything, he was just saying it out of sheer pleasure, it seems). They interrogated me and didn't want to tell me why I was taken there. They wouldn't let us use our mobile phones. I spent like 3 hours there until they let me go, fortunately I was able to catch my connecting flight (to a different US city) in the last minute (since I had been told that if I missed it due to the interrogation no one would pay anything, since it was "for security".
After the experience, I decided not to go to the US anymore unless it is strictly necessary. This year I have not submitted papers to any conference taking place in the US, and I don't plan to do so in the future, unless I have a coauthor willing to go. Sorry guys, it's not that I don't like your country, in fact everyone was really nice to me once I was *inside* the US. But being treated like a piece of sh*t at the customs without even being given a reason is not a nice experience. Perhaps if you haven't gone through it you may think that it's just a minor nuisance, but it really gets to your nerves being there, waiting, unable to do anything, surrounded by heavily armed guards as if you were a criminal, receiving no explanation whatsoever for your situation, and getting nervous as the time for your next flight is approaching and they don't let you go. Even if the country is nice, it's just not worth it.
So yes, I'm sure these kinds of border controls harm tourism. I don't want to go to the US while the situation is like that, and I'm aware of more people of the same opinion.
PS: I have been to like 20 or 30 countries, including poor and rich countries, and I haven't been treated so badly in any other place, only in the US customs.
A few months ago a friend of mine decided to take his family (wife and two little kids) to the USA for a day of shopping. They recently moved to a town in Manitoba, not too far from the US border.
When he got to the border there was nobody at the checkpoint. He sat there for some number of minutes, nobody seemed to be around and nothing moved at all, so he continued on his way into the USA.
A couple of miles further along the highway he saw a large truck stopped on the shoulder of the road ahead of him. As he approached it, the truck suddenly swung across the highway to block it and three unmarked police cars came roaring up from somewhere behind him and boxed him in. His car was surrounded and he was ordered out at gunpoint (which terrified everyone in the car, of course).
He was ultimately taken back to the checkpoint in one of the police cars while his wife had to drive their car with the kids in it back to the checkpoint behind him -- she had a police car in front and behind all the way. They questioned them there for a couple of hours before they decided they were just dumb and not terrorists, then they released them at the border and they had to return home. (It was too late in the day for any shopping and who's in the mood after that, anyway.)
He asked them if he would be allowed back into the USA in the future and they said he would be, but never go through an apparently unmanned checkpoint again. I don't think he's ever gone back, though.
If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
Yes, border crossing into the U.S., especially by air, can be "harrowing" sometimes - but the experiences can be very rewarding. Reconsider putting a trip over-the-pond back onto your to-do list.
It really comes down to how much public humiliation is worth a few days as a tourist. Some people don't seem to mind it, but personally I don't even fly inside the US anymore.
If I wanted to pay to be insulted, demeaned, and harassed I'd want it done by a professional - preferably in full leather.
"All these years believing you're the signified monkey, only to find out you're just a big hunk of nobody cares."
Per the interview with the Chicago mayor I heard on NPR this morning, it was two main reasons. Rio put a $14 billion of government back funding on the table and Chicago only presented $5 billion of mostly private funding (some of which was questionable). Plus the IOC really wanted to host the games in a non-major country or area such as South America or Africa. Personally I found it odd that the White House had a task force assigned to try to get the games to Chicago, which was actually a turn-off to the IOC. Chicago was never a serious contender as they started lobbying so late and really didn't have any actual plans to make it happen well, just as Atlanta was ill prepared..