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NVIDIA To Exit Chipset Business
The rumor that we discussed a few months back is looking more real. Vigile writes "Once the darling of the enthusiast chipset market, NVIDIA has apparently decided to quit development of future chipsets for all platforms. This 'state of NVIDIA' editorial at PC Perspective first highlighted the fact that the company was backing away from its plans to develop a DMI-based chipset for Intel's Lynnfield processors due to legal pressure from Intel and debates over licensing restrictions. That effectively left NVIDIA out in the cold in terms of high-end chipsets, but even more interesting is the later revelation that NVIDIA has only one remaining chipset product to release, what we know as ION 2, and that it was mainly built for Apple's upcoming products. NVIDIA still plans to sell its current offerings, like MCP61 for AMD platforms and current generation ION for netbooks and nettops, but will focus solely on discrete graphics options after this final release."
Do we get mad at Intel?
This is a sad day.
Competition is good, I'm sorry.
Do we get mad at Intel?
Yes. Intel hasn't produced a competitive GPU for its integrated graphics. This will become painfully apparent once web sites start to use JavaScript bindings for OpenGL ES.
Tegra, Tegra, wherefore art though Tegra?
I'm not. Wherefore do you ask?
due to many problems. reports of data corruption at the design level (not build or parts but *design* faults). their ethernet drivers were horribly reverse engineered and never came close to the stability of the eepro1000, for example. at least on linux.
there were issues with sata and compatibility.
in short, they were over their heads. glad they finally admitted it (sort of).
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
No they are stopping production of their nForce line of motherboards.
They better have a compelling product with the upcoming fermi then, but from I what I hear they're trying to design their GPUs for more general purpose computing, specifically scientific computations. It's a really big gamble and I can't see that it will be a huge market. Their upcoming products are supposed to have 3 billion transistors which is way more than 4x the amount in an i7 CPU. It's probably going to cost a ton too.
I would argue Intel's strength relies a little on the U.S. intellectual property laws and procedures. If the country loosened intellectual property law, Nvidia might have a chance in hell.
But this is also about a global market where 80% of product comes from maybe 10% of all possible manufacturers and there are few laws preventing Intel from doing all kinds of market shenanigans in places like China.
I know the loosening of intellectual property laws would help Nvidia's case, but I don't think it would bring about a semi-competitive marketplace because this market (global OEM) has few legal constraints.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
...that nVidia are at least giong to make a stab at providing graphics-enabled southbridges or something... as for things like HTPC's an Intel CPU + nVidia integrated graphics is brilliant. If I'm in the market that's looking for integrated graphics (in the case of HTPC's, power usage and space considerations) then the GPU is more important than the CPU... and I find myself being pushed to AMD for the whole platform.
Intel is really shooting themselves in the foot with all the bus licensing stuff IMHO. By scaring off nVidia IGP's, they're left with their own mediocre offerings which, in my experience, are vastly inferior even in graphics tasks that don't involve 3D.
If nVidia can supply us with miniscule IGP's-on-a-PCIe-stick-for-a-tenner then great, but their recent developments seem to be pushing themselves into niche applications (bigger and bigger GPU dies primarily) and I'm worried an Intel platform will make me choose between Intel IGP or a power-guzzling graphics card. Heck, pretty much every machine I've built for others in the last five years has come with an ATI or nVidia IGP because I don't know anyone that games.
Disclaimer: I have every type of GPU in my house; I use nVidia IGP's for all my HTPC's since they're the only ones that are consistently good for HD content under both windows and Linux. Intel IGP's suck for video (my X3100 can't keep up with SD x264 scaled over a 1900x1200 screen without tearing and lag) but are fine for my laptops (low power usage preferred), and a mix of ATI and nVidia grpahics cards on the machines that need 3D. I was annoyed enough when nVidia IGP's stopped appearing for AMD boards, but not having them at all will be a serious pain in the arse.
Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
... if it weren't a complete fabrication.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-gpu-graphics-chipset,8821.html They have explicitly stated they have no intention of leaving the chipset business.
Reported at HardOCP... http://www.hardocp.com/news/2009/10/08/nvidia_statement_on_chipset_business
NVIDIA's Ken Brown wanted to give us NVIDIA's thoughts on the current state of its chipset business. So here it is in its full text.
Hi,
We've received a number of inquiries recently about NVIDIA's chipset (MCP) business. We'd like to set the record straight on current and future NVIDIA chipset activity.
On Intel platforms, the NVIDIA GeForce 9400M/ION brands have enjoyed significant sales, as well as critical success. Customers including Apple, Dell, HP, Lenovo, Samsung, Acer, ASUS and others are continuing to incorporate GeForce 9400M and ION products in their current designs. There are many customers that have plans to use ION or GeForce 9400M chipsets for upcoming designs, as well.
On AMD platforms, we continue to sell a higher quantity of chipsets than AMD itself. MCP61-based platforms continue to be extremely well positioned in the entry CPU segments where AMD CPUs are most competitive vs. Intel
We will continue to innovate integrated solutions for Intel’s FSB architecture. We firmly believe that this market has a long healthy life ahead. But because of Intel’s improper claims to customers and the market that we aren’t licensed to the new DMI bus and its unfair business tactics, it is effectively impossible for us to market chipsets for future CPUs. So, until we resolve this matter in court next year, we’ll postpone further chipset investments for Intel DMI CPUs.
Despite Intel's actions, we have innovative products that we are excited to introduce to the market in the months ahead. We know these products will bring with them some amazing breakthroughs that will surprise the industry, just as GeForce 9400M and ION have shaken up the industry this year.
We expect our MCP business for both Intel and AMD to be strong well into the future.
Let me know if you have any questions, and thanks for your interest.
Best,
Ken
ONLY for the new i5/i7 architecture and beyond...
There is no contest in life for which the unprepared have the advantage.
That has absolutely nothing to do with the story in question. It is a refutation to the ridiculous claim that "Nvidia is abandoning the entire high end and mid-range graphics market".
"Do we get mad at Intel?"
Yeah, they made Nvidia look bad by putting out chipset that met spec, survived average use, then had the gall to not hide the fact! (see http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2377) I mean really, how can Intel do business like that? And people wonder why Nvidia is bailing, then trying to hide it before Wall Street notices and downgrades them more.
The story goes like this.
1) Nvidia stops designing future chipsets
2) Nvidia blames Intel for nebulous atrocity
3) Nvidia hides the facts
4) It gets out
5) Nvidia admits it
6) Wall Street notices (several analyst reports out on the subject today)
7) Nvidia realizes that Wall Street noticed
8) Nvidia backpedals, hard, fast, and with all due slime
The 'denial' they are throwing around now states that they are not going to develop AMD chipsets anymore, not going to develop Intel chipsets anymore, and only going to continue selling the ones they have made. Until Intel stops making FSB chips in a few months, then it WILL be Intel's fault somehow.
Back to the original question, can you explain how Nvidia voluntarily stopping design of AMD chipsets is Intel's fault? :)
I saw this a year ago when I saw them stop most if not all future chipset products. I wrote it up. Nvidia denied it. A year later, they announce a stoppage for a few hours until the implications sink in. Then they deny it.
Yup. Intel. Those bastards!
I agree about the competition part, but this isn't sad, it was planned.
-Charlie
Intel will be putting graphics on the CPU, according to their roadmap.
AMD will be putting graphics on the CPU, according to their roadmap.
At that point the GPU is already a "sunk cost", noone will buy an integrated GPU that's only slightly better than another integrated GPU. It's also not only legal reasons, but also about pricing, timing, access to resources and so on. Intel can increase license costs, do accounting so more profits go on processors, delay launches of competing chipsets, deny access to resources trying to work out incompatibilies or instabilities and so on. Intel is doing extremely well and is ready to do that landgrab, one way or the other. I think nVidia is doing a better play as the victim of Intel's legal department rather than being gently pushed out the door as the GPU joins the CPU.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
They have a huge contract with Apple as they've adopted NVidia chipsets for pretty much the entire Mac product line. Given that Jobs would preemptively shift to another chipset platform in the last round of announcements if this were even remotely true, I seriously doubt that NVidia would even think of limiting further R&D in their chipsets to Ion 2.
Unfortunately I'm used to the editors slipping at least twice a day...
"We are Microsoft. You shall be assimilated. Competition is futile."
nVidia has published an official response.
http://hardocp.com/news/2009/10/08/nvidia_statement_on_chipset_business
It looks like long-term, Intel and AMD/ATI are going to be the only games in town. That wouldn't worry me a whole lot, because I think their stuff looks good on paper, and they'll compete. And both of them are slowly advancing their open source drivers. But the key word is "slowly." If, say, you want to buy a machine to use as a MythTV box or something like that, right now NVidia is currently the only one it makes sense to buy. Anybody else, and you're going to have to decode your video with CPU and read promises about how some day you might not have to. I hate reading promises.
I am not looking forward to the day when these two windows of acceptability don't overlap. What happens you want to build a box and neither Nvidia nor Intel not AMD have a product that can actually be used, either because they're gone (Nvidia) or their drivers aren't yet working (Intel and AMD)? That is going to suck.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
And then you were promptly fired for writing FUD.
Nobody believes a word you say. You lost all credibility long ago.
It's just a shame the inquirer has not removed your negative, blatantly biased garbage.
Which means what the GP said. Nvidia's integrated graphics solutions come in the form of Nvidia chipsets (of which the nForce is the most common). If they're no longer making chipsets, then they're no longer making integrated graphics. There's still the possibility of a maker taking a discrete chip and adding it separately to the motherboard PCB, but with virtually every modern northbridge chip having built in graphics already I don't see that happening. The people who are satisfied with integrated will use that, the people who want something better will want to do so via upgradeable addon cards.
Truthfully, I just don't see the wisdom in this decision. I'd have sooner expected Nvidia to announce that they were leaving the discrete graphics chip market rather than the chipset market.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
Thanks Charlie. You don't have to say any more about ATI, because the cat's already out of the bag (some site broke the Tuesday NDA). They'll be moving exclusively to GDDR5 on 128-bit bus for their midrange parts. This means that right now, they could sell a cheap 512MB 5850 with 4 memory chips for next to nothing. And once the 2Gbit GDDR5 parts ship next year, those 1GB 5770 parts can be paired with just 4 memory devices, and could probably be sold for the same cheapo $100.
The power of a 4890 (almost) for around $100 six months from now? It's certainly possible, and it's just amazing what GDDR5 brings to the table!
Sounds to me like the venerable GDDR3 is finally headed for that big tech dump in the sky. It only took five years!
Man is the animal that laughs.
And occasionally whores for Karma.
Try plugging an SSD into one of those chipsets and see how far you get. Especially an Intel SLC SSD. Then go look for a patch on Nvidia's site.
Intel had to patch around Nvidia's bugs, Nvidia wouldn't. There is a long list of these things.
They may exist, but I wouldn't call them good. They essentially haven't been touched, just renamed, and are seriously showing their age.
-Charlie
Well, as Apple made public knowledge when they switched to Intel, (not an exact quote) "we develop, compile, and test OS X on multiple hardware platfors, always have since the very first day of development, include new processor platforms as they come available, and can change to an alternate platform at any time."
IBM appears to be working on a low power P6/P7 architecture, AMD has some nice new stuff, They have their own fab now for low power CPUs, I'm sure they're compiling against Atom and likely even Cell...
Honetly, as long as GPUs remain seperate from CPUs, it's long past time when the north/southbridge became integrated into the core CPU silcon. They already added the memory controller and other mainboard resources, now the base systems bus and other common components could all be included. nVidia really is doing the right thing moving into alternate markets, this one IS dying, this may actually be good for both nVidia and intel as it gives intel an advantage in being able to seperate and move away from current trends easier, and gives nVidia a more consolodated and focussed research effoer for GPU/CPU acceleration - generic core processing technology.
nVidia will still reap a LOT of profit from the existing systems for years, and makes a killing in GPUs and AMD chipsets. Saving this reaserch money, shutting down the facilities, and in the end almost certainly winning a case against intel for a few hundred million in cash down the road, this is a great opportunity for them, and I commend their decision.
There is no contest in life for which the unprepared have the advantage.
Then there's also the whole thing of nVidia producing utter crap chipsets... That might have a teeny weeny little something to do with it.
It has nothing to do with intel's "market dominance" and everything to do with nVidia's inability to be competitive in a market segment they know little about, and the shoddy crap they try to pass off as a chipset. Once you put the koolaid down and have an objective look at their product, it simply sucks.
I've had 3 of them and all three were utter garbage. DFI, Gigabyte, ASUS, it didn't matter. Every time it turned out to be the MCP in the chipset or some other part of it failing or not working correctly to begin with. In one case the interrupt controller didn't work at all with a dual core CPU and on both linux and MS Windows they had to put a "software" interrupt controller in the kernel to make it work with a dual core cpu. As you might guess this made the multi cpu performance _worse_ than a single cpu. And this was a chipset designed for multi-core CPUs.
I've subsequently had 2 AMD crossfire chipsets, both worked perfectly. nVidia chipsets are 0-3 in my book.
Good riddance...
That's hundreds of thousands of consumers that won't get burned. Intel or AMD chipsets for the win...
Don't kid yourself. It's the size of the regexp AND how you use it that counts.
The summary and the official response say the same damn thing. Furthermore, if you would have RTFA, you would know that it quotes the official statement that every one is posting, giving a paragraph by paragraph critique of how it does not refute anything, just tries to spin it nicely for the stockholders.
NVIDIA currently has no plans to create any new AMD or Intel chipsets after the ION2. Period.