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FCC To Probe Google Voice Over Call Blocking

Over the past few months, we've been following the FCC's inquiry into Apple and AT&T after they rejected Google Voice from the App store. A couple weeks ago, AT&T did their best to deflect the FCC by dangling a shiny object in front of them — the use of Google Voice to block calls. It now appears the FCC has taken the bait, as they've sent an official inquiry to Google asking why the service restricts connections. "In its letter, the FCC asked Google to describe how its calls are routed and whether calls to particular numbers are prohibited. It also asks for information on how restrictions are implemented, how Google informs customers about those restrictions, whether Google Voice services are free, and if Google ever plans to charge for them in the future." Richard Whitt has already posted a brief explanation on Google's Public Policy blog. "The reason we restrict calls to certain local phone carriers' numbers is simple. Not only do they charge exorbitant termination rates for calls, but they also partner with adult sex chat lines and 'free' conference calling centers to drive high volumes of traffic." The FCC also received a push from members of the House of Representatives on Wednesday.

28 of 86 comments (clear)

  1. Fine by sopssa · · Score: 5, Informative

    AT&T receives goverment aids so the rural area's get supported too, and then by law they have to support them. Google doesn't receive any money to run the *free* service, and they couldn't provide it as free if they had to support calls to those rural areas too (who are obviously abusing the system with their premium priced sex lines and so on)

    Google could always make a system where users could call to those areas with credit so users cover the costs themself, but I dont see why they would need to.

    1. Re:Fine by jimmydevice · · Score: 2, Informative

      Apparently AT&T misplaced or spent that cash on something other than rural service. I would guess 90% of the people in my county do not have access to any wired broadband. I talked to the telco reps and they stated they need at least 300 customers. That's difficult when the minimum lot size is 5 acres.

    2. Re:Fine by conureman · · Score: 2, Informative

      Does AT&T respond to congressional pressure? Sometimes you can get your congressman to give 'em a phone call or whatever it is they do. It's called "Constituent Service" and in rural areas it's kinda what they're supposed to be doing. Why do you think they build "bridges to nowhere" in Alaska and stuff like that. I used to always get my way with the phone providers (after the usual hellish delays) by calmly and persistently explaining that they were incorrect, and if I couldn't wear them down into acquiescense, I'd inform them that they were a public utility, & I was going to take it up with the (California) P.U.C. YMMV, but it works out here.

      --
      The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
    3. Re:Fine by nxtw · · Score: 2, Informative

      AT&T receives goverment aids so the rural area's get supported too, and then by law they have to support them.

      The Universal Service Fund is what you are thinking of. It is a tax imposed on phone companies, and some of this money does go to subsidize phone services for low-income and high-cost consumers. The USF is clearly flawed, but it does not require that wireless carriers provide rural service. Wireless carriers who get money from the USF do so as "competitive" carriers to the local telephone company...

  2. Re:Wow, FCC with a clue? by uassholes · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Maybe they're trying to cover their asses.

    AT&T apparently now wants web applications -- from Skype to Google Voice -- to be treated the same way as traditional phone services. Their approach is what a former FCC chairman has called "regulatory capitalism," the practice of using regulation to block or slow down innovation. And despite AT&T's lobbying efforts, this issue has nothing to do with network neutrality or rural America. This is about outdated carrier compensation rules that are fundamentally broken and in need of repair by the FCC.

  3. this isn't about apple by fermion · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I see this more about disclosure than about whether free calls exist on the iPhone(of course, over WiFi they do). Despite the clearly myopic tone of the article, the issue is disclosure.

    For instance, a relative switched to VOIP due to significant costs saving. Though this relative is good at asking questions, several hidden and opportunity costs were never fully disclosed. This person still uses primarily a land line, so when the land line went out for several weeks due to a power disruption, there was very limited phone since she was not comfortable with a cell phone, and many friend in foreign land were never given this number. There there was the excessive costs to make foreign calls, and complex prepaid cards were not an option.

    No matter what we think of Google, we have to admit they play fast and loose with their free services. Long outages, removal of service at the drop of hat by any arbitrary third party. The business model does not allow for end user services, since the end user is not the customer. If Google plays such a game with the phone app, who is going to be blamed? Not Google. Apple will have to take the calls.

    In any case the point is moot. Android sales are expected to dwarf iPhone sales within a few years. There are expected to be many models out this year. Google can supply all these phones with Google Voice and prove that they can reliably serve customers needs. In fact, if Google Voice is as great as everyone says, it would likely be the killer app, the market differentiation, that would make Adroid phones an unbeatable value. Free phone calls. Free email. Why would anyone want anyone else. At that point, Apple would have to include the App.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    1. Re:this isn't about apple by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Informative

      You don't really understand how google voice works do you?

      Here's a sarter -- there is nothing about google voice that will ever enable free phone calls on a cellphone unless the cellphone service independently allows free phone calls.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    2. Re:this isn't about apple by Firehed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Unless you have one of those "favorites" things in your cell plan, where you have unlimited calls to 5 numbers (or whatever). Add your GV number as one of your favorites and config your GV account so incoming calls pass the GV caller ID instead of the normal caller pass-through it does, and you effectively have unlimited calling on the cheapest possible plan (not free, but close enough). At that point, it's as cheap as, if not cheaper than, Skype. Couple that with the fact that you can have all of the GV SMS services go over email and that Google now offers push services for many phones, and you're as close to free as you can ever hope.

      I think T-Mobile started it; I saw an ad from AT&T offering a similar thing a couple days ago. I can't imagine Verizon and Sprint are too far off if they're not offering it already since the carriers all seem to mimic each other pretty quickly.

      It's neither perfect nor foolproof, but until you can rig it up so that you have end-to-end VOIP (which is probably only a couple years out; carriers are starting to realize their future is data, not minutes), it's a decent approximation.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
  4. got my gvoice number this week by SoupGuru · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's a pretty interesting idea and I'd love to see what improvements are made to it over time.

    I hear Verizon is bragging about their new deal with Google and Android while also stating they're going to support Google Voice. As a Verizon customer I hope that means I can eventually have other Verizon customers call my Google Voice number and get connected to my Verizon cell and not burn any out-of-network minutes. That's definitely a marketable stance to take in contrast to AT&T's.

    --
    What doesn't kill you only delays the inevitable
    1. Re:got my gvoice number this week by thule · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem is that there are regulations for phone companies. These would have to be completely revamped for your idea to work. What is happening with Google is that they are thinking like you are. The problem is that Google has made themselves into a phone company, but don't want to play by phone company rules. They want to treat some phone numbers different than other numbers. A real phone company can't do that. They have to pay the charge back rules no matter what. They have to charge the customer as regulated by the utility commissions. AT&T wants Google to play by the same rules they have to.

      This is similar to net neutrality. The difference is that the Internet has a flat rate model already. AT&T wants to be able to differentiate traffic if they need to, but Google says that they should have to handle all traffic the same way. Okay, fine, then Google must handle all phone traffic the same way.

      The FCC could fix this by changing how "long distance" companies that terminate domestically charge back the phone company. I don't know what this would look like though.

    2. Re:got my gvoice number this week by maxume · · Score: 3, Interesting

      out-of-network minutes aren't particularly likely to exist in 3 or 4 years (Boost is currently setting the stage, charging $50 a month for unlimited voice, with no contract).

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    3. Re:got my gvoice number this week by rcolbert · · Score: 2, Interesting

      These are all good thoughts, and the main theme in common is that something has to change. IMO the prime candidate for change is the outdated telephone rules and regulations. The more voice services that are exempt from those rules, the more willing the traditional telephone carriers will be to do away with them wholesale in favor of a more unified approach to data transmission. At the end of the day, it's all bits and bytes floating around from point A to point B. While changing the system isn't going to be simple, it is certainly inevitable. Who would have thought 20 years ago that we would end over-the-air analog broadcasting of television by now?

    4. Re:got my gvoice number this week by SeanMon · · Score: 2, Informative

      The problem is that Google has made themselves into a phone company, [emph. added] but don't want to play by phone company rules.

      This is fundamentally wrong. There is no way to place or receive phone calls without an existing phone service.

      (SMS messages are slightly different because with Google Voice you can send and receive SMS without another phone service. However, no landline phone services (that I know of) support SMS, so I don't believe that's relevent.)

      --
      "Scud Storm!" -- Jeremy of PurePwnage.com
  5. which members of Congress by Dan667 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Would be nice to know who the sellouts are.

  6. So let's get this straight... by Kickboy12 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The FCC was blaming AT&T...
    AT&T said don't look at us, blame Google Voice!
    Google Voice said it's not our fault, it's the use of "traffic pumping" thats causesing high fees
    The guys going the traffic pumping are probably blaming the people running the rural telephone systems...
    The people running the rural telephone systems are just trying to turn a profit in a rural area with few calls being made...

    When everyone is really just trying to make a profit, who is really the bad guy here?

    1. Re:So let's get this straight... by Kesch · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well... no. There's no real bad guy here, but it isn't such a cut and dry blame game.

      The FCC starts asking why AT&T is blocking Google Voice on the iPhone.

      AT&T tries to shed some of the heat by changing topics and asking why Google doesn't have to connect these expensive rural providers that AT&T is legally forced to connect to.

      Now, these expensive rural end points are apparently a little slimy since they like to partner with high volume services to draw calls into their network which they can then charge a premium for.

      Of course, Google and AT&T aren't exactly analogous. So it's not clear that Google should be held to the same standards. One company is providing a completely free service while the other receives subscription fees. Also one is providing full phone service complete with a dial tone, while the other is fancy routing for your existing services. Finally, one has gotten government subsidies to support expensive coverage of rural areas while the other has received nothing.

      I appreciate that the FCC is asking these questions though. They're fairly reasonable questions. In fact, the FCC has been fairly competent as of late. They might still be a little weak when it comes to laying the smackdown and righting the wrongs of telecom industry (of which there are a lot). But they have shown active interest in investigating possible abuses, and know the right questions to ask when they show up.

      --
      If this signature is witty enough, maybe somebody will like me.
  7. The history of long distance charges by thule · · Score: 5, Informative

    I talked to someone that has been in the audio text business (aka 976 or 900 numbers) for years. He explained how this works.

    The ability to make money on a number and charge it to the phone company goes back to old traditions in how phone systems work. When your phone company cannot connect a call directly they pay another company to do it for them. For example, if you called another country and your phone company did not operate in that area, your company would pay the company operating in that area to route the call. The company that completed the call would charge back to your phone company. Your phone company would charge a rate that would generally cover those charges. Since everyone was paying per/min it was pretty easy to figure out rates. As more and more long distance companies popped up over the years this tradition continued.

    What audio text businesses discovered is that they could register themselves as long distance companies and terminate calls in their down systems (no real routing was happening). The numbers were non-explicit chat lines or up-sell ads to adult numbers. They could *still* make money even if the person never uses the 900 adult content number they are upselling.. As it has become easier and easier to purchase equipment to qualify as a long distance carrier people have setup "free" services. Many times these companies are heavily into the audio text business and the "free" services are simply a more "legitimate" way to make money.

    As you can see, this can start to become a big problem for companies that sell flat rate service for domestic calls. The calls are terminating within what would normally be a local call, but the audio text company is charging back a fee that would normally be associated with calling a third world nation with limited phone services.

    AT&T does have some what of a point. Google is treating some numbers differently than others.

  8. Re:Wow, FCC with a clue? by fucket · · Score: 4, Funny

    I would be too, if someone kept trying to probe me.

  9. Re:If you want to be like a telephone company... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So...if you're providing a free service that is not what the telephone company provides, then you follow the same rules? Good logic, bro.

  10. network neutrality by HazelMotes · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Those who have been begging for government enforced network neutrality are reaping what they sow, although I'm sure these aren't the fruits they had in mind.

    1. Re:network neutrality by thule · · Score: 2, Insightful

      AT&T has been paying those fees. That's the problem. AT&T has to pay the fees because they are a phone company and a phone company *has* to connect those calls. Google is setting itself up as a phone company, but is excluding itself from the rules that phone companies have to play by. The reason there isn't "neutrality" on the phone network is because it really did cost more money to connect to different parts of the world. It wouldn't make sense for a phone company to charge back the same amount to connect the call from US to Canada or US to Moldova. If long distance companies couldn't charge differing rates then there would be parts of the world that be even farther behind in their communication networks.

      AT&T is in a situation right now where they unleashed the iPhone on their wireless data network. Wouldn't it be better if they could classify the network traffic so they can mange the growth? Eventually they will have their network built out to support the devices, but until then, wouldn't better if you got some service rather than no service?

      I just see issues with network neutrality over reaching. There are times where an ISP may have to mange their network and de-prioritize some types of traffic. Who is to say they can't do this as long as the classes of traffic are treated equally? What happens if an ISP just builds a separate network for traffic they want to prioritize. No QoS, just straight routing rules. Would this violate network neutrality? Yahoo does this all the time by direct peering their content network with consumer networks. They are able to bypass potential bottlenecks so that their traffic gets to end users fast. Would these peering agreements violate net neutrality?

    2. Re:network neutrality by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's the problem. AT&T has to pay the fees because they are a phone company and a phone company *has* to connect those calls. Google is setting itself up as a phone company, but is excluding itself from the rules that phone companies have to play by.

      No, Google is not "setting itself up as a phone company" any more than having answering machine makers are phone companies either.
      Google provides a set of services that is layered on top of POTS, without POTS, google voice would be just as useful as an answering machine without a phone line.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    3. Re:network neutrality by thule · · Score: 3, Informative

      Google Voice doesn't just receive calls, it also makes outgoing calls. The outgoing calls could be forwarded call or they could be initiated by the Google Voice user. The Google Voice user is make the call not only via their local provider, but by Google Voice's phone services. It would be like dialing a 10-XXX prefix and then a number. In this way, Google Voice is *exactly* like a 10-XXX long distance provider.

    4. Re:network neutrality by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Informative

      It would be like dialing a 10-XXX prefix and then a number. In this way, Google Voice is *exactly* like a 10-XXX long distance provider.

      Except that google's outgoing calls are carried by an actual long distance provider, google does not have any 'peering' equivalents with local telcos, if they did then they would be subject to the same tarifs that actual long distance carriers are.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    5. Re:network neutrality by thule · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think they might be, otherwise they wouldn't need to block some numbers. They would be paying a flat fee. They blocked the numbers because those numbers are apparently costing them more than a normal number. Why?

    6. Re:network neutrality by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think they might be, otherwise they wouldn't need to block some numbers. They would be paying a flat fee. They blocked the numbers because those numbers are apparently costing them more than a normal number. Why?

      Because their wholesale carrier charges google based on their own costs.

      Like I said, if google really were their own carrier they would be subject to the same tariffs that all the other carriers are and this would be a non-issue because they would be following the tariffs. The tariffs are so ridiculously complicated due to regulatory capture that no one just "plugs in" and goes, they first hire an army of lawyers to parse everything and tell them what they must do and can't do.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  11. Re:If you want to be like a telephone company... by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's really simple. If you want to be like a phone company, then you need to follow the rules of a telephone company.

    At exactly what point is one "like a phone company"? When you enable communication? Voice? Connect to a phone network? Provide a phone number? Do I need to start following FCC carrier rules because I run a Mumble server?

  12. They could explain their better by inio · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As a Google Voice user, I was confused when I tried to call a free conference call service and my phone never rang. No error message and the web UI acted like it was placing the call. I tried through the dial-in interface and got "that number is not valid" or something to that extent. They could at least explain WHY they're not allowing the call to go through.