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Misadventures In Online Journalism

An anonymous reader writes "Paul Carr, writing for TechCrunch, has posted his take on some of the flaws inherent to today's fast-paced news ecosystem, where bloggers often get little or no editorial feedback and interesting headlines are passed around faster than ever. His article was inspired by a recent story on ZDNet that accused Yahoo of sharing the names and emails of 200,000 users with the Iranian government; a report that turned out to be false, yet generated a great deal of outrage before it was disproved. Carr writes, 'Trusting the common sense of your writers is all well and good — but when it comes to breaking news, where journalistic adrenaline is at its highest and everyone is paranoid about being scooped by a competitor, that common sense can too easily become the first casualty. Journalists get caught up in the moment; we get excited and we post stupid crap from a foreign language student blog and call it news. And then within half a minute — bloggers being what they are — the news gets repeated and repeated until it becomes fact. Fact that can affect share prices or ruin lives. This is the reality of the blogosphere, where Churchill's remark: that "a lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on" is more true, and more potentially damaging, than at any time in history.'"

26 of 133 comments (clear)

  1. On posting by jamesl · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Better late than wrong. Better never than stupid.

    1. Re:On posting by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Wait. Think it through. In the context of commercial online journalism, is late really better than wrong?

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    2. Re:On posting by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Insightful

      About a month ago MSNBC did a story about racist white men carrying guns at a presidential speech, and showed supposed video of these white guys with guns. It was later learned MSNBC's video was of a *black* man.

      There doesn't seem to be any negative repercussion for MSNBC's "mistakes". They just keep raking in the dollars.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    3. Re:On posting by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 2, Funny

      North Korea Nukes Los Angeles, Millions Feared Dead

      I'm not dead yet!
      (Sorry. Couldn't resist).

    4. Re:On posting by mathx314 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Here's the video proof, by the way: Youtube link.

    5. Re:On posting by linhares · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How about the CNN story on proof of Bigfoot? Or Cnn's fail in the iranian election? I used to be a giant fan of CNN, today I've moved on to BBC/The Economist/Blogs. Even Slashdot is more reliable than those idiots. And no, I'm not new here: I browse at +4.

  2. Not the biggest problem we face in journalism by HangingChad · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Journalists get caught up in the moment; we get excited and we post stupid crap from a foreign language student blog and call it news. And then within half a minute -- bloggers being what they are -- the news gets repeated and repeated until it becomes fact. Fact that can affect share prices or ruin lives.

    That doesn't even address how that problem compounds when the news organization in question has a political agenda or has their talking points of the day handed down from political operatives in exile. There's no allegiance to the truth or journalistic integrity. Fact checking is secondary to staying on message, even if the facts get kicked around in the process. No corrections for stories that turn out to be false, no apologies when lives (or countries) are ruined. It's not a news organization, it's a front for propaganda.

    I think a news organization promoting itself as say fair and balanced while hiding an agenda behind a veneer of respectability is far greater threat to both individuals and the country than the occasional weekend early release accident.

    --
    That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
    1. Re:Not the biggest problem we face in journalism by causality · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Fact checking is secondary to staying on message, even if the facts get kicked around in the process. No corrections for stories that turn out to be false, no apologies when lives (or countries) are ruined. It's not a news organization, it's a front for propaganda.

      I disagree on just a single minor point. The fact checking is important. Modern propaganda techniques are much, much more sophisticated than blatantly lying. Usually the media pushes a political agenda by selectively omitting facts it finds inconvenient while giving high visibility to those it finds desirable. This process is at least as misleading as straight-up lying yet it never requires a single untrue statement. The critical thinking skills needed to detect this kind of framing are much more subtle, and thus more rare, than what it would take to Google a true/false type of fact. For that reason, it is often more misleading than a lie would have been because the lie could be directly falsified.

      A perfect example of this would be the use of guns for self-defense and home defense. You'd think, from watching the news, that a law-abiding citizen who legally carries a gun has never stopped a crime. You'd think, from watching the news, that every time a gun is used for self-defense the result is a shootout. Dig a little and you find that in cases where a legal gun was used by a civilian to stop a crime, the news article will say something like "but the attacker was subdued and later arrested" and won't tell you how this happened. Dig some more and you'll see that they give explicit edge-of-your-seat details when an unarmed person wrestles a criminal to the ground, or calls the police and begs for help, or is victimized by a criminal. By comparison, they're strangely quiet when someone refuses to be victimized. Then consider that every dictatorship which has ever occurred in a modern, industrialized nation considered the confiscation of guns to be a very high priority.

      The actual agenda isn't difficult to discern. It's your basic statism, though it's often made out to be more complex than it really is. By that I mean people talk about "liberal" and "conservative" and throw around all of these labels. However, both "sides" want to expand the power and size of government. Their only differences are the justifications; one does so for mainly social reasons, the other for economic and military reasons. Yet the result is the same, so any choice provided by the constant (and constantly encouraged) bickering between the two "sides" is illusory. We the people have so far been too dumb to understand the full implications of that, because we'd rather be fat and stupid and occupy our time with sports and entertainment and the latest shiny thing (and those things aren't so bad, just when they're all we care about) because that is the mark of a good consumer. Thus our opinions are as pre-packaged and intended for public consumption as our news stories, and we really do seem to be getting the government we deserve, unfortunately.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    2. Re:Not the biggest problem we face in journalism by badasscat · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A perfect example of this would be the use of guns for self-defense and home defense. You'd think, from watching the news, that a law-abiding citizen who legally carries a gun has never stopped a crime.

      No, what you'd think - if you actually read more news than you obviously have - is the truth. That statistically, law-abiding citizens who carry guns are much more likely to be shot dead - often with their own guns or those owned by their loved ones - than law-abiding citizens who don't.

      You are a perfect example of those who believe journalism is a bullshit profession because your own personal views are not reinforced by the news you read. But the problem for you is that your personal views are not supported by day to day facts and events, and this is what you're reading about. While I doubt any journalist has ever said or written that a gun-toting citizen has "never" stopped a crime, statistically it is much more likely that they will be a victim of gun violence than the opposite, and that is likely what you are reading about - because it just happens a lot more often. Journalists can only report what is happening - it's not their job to make up facts to suit some bias. That is in fact what this thread is all about.

    3. Re:Not the biggest problem we face in journalism by RocketRabbit · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually you'll find that if you omit suicides from the calculation people hardly ever shoot themselves or loved ones. All these studies count suicide but don't come right out and say it because the people behind them have an agenda - to prove to us that guns are bad through omission.

      That you quoted a report that includes the suicidal and didn't mention it, makes me wonder if the wool hasn't been pulled over your own eyes. Then again, the first linked article explicitly quotes Daniel Webster and if you had any grounding in reality and knowledge of his insidious agenda you'd probably not have made that error.

      Almost without exception, when a state recognizes the right of its citizenry to carry concealed, crime goes down. Usually, it goes WAY down. However take away the guns, and more people get shot (Australia is a great example of this) or stabbed and the journalists out there don't ever seem to make this correlation.

    4. Re:Not the biggest problem we face in journalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Investigating the Link Between Gun Possession and Gun Assault
      Branas et al., 10.2105/AJPH.2008.143099,
      American Journal of Public Health.

      Abstract:

      Objectives. We investigated the possible relationship between being shot in an assault and possession of a gun at the time.

      Methods. We enrolled 677 case participants that had been shot in an assault and 684 population-based control participants within Philadelphia, PA, from 2003 to 2006. We adjusted odds ratios for confounding variables.

      Results. After adjustment, individuals in possession of a gun were 4.46 (P<.05) times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not in possession. Among gun assaults where the victim had at least some chance to resist, this adjusted odds ratio increased to 5.45 (P<.05).

      Conclusions. On average, guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault. Although successful defensive gun uses occur each year, the probability of success may be low for civilian gun users in urban areas. Such users should reconsider their possession of guns or, at least, understand that regular possession necessitates careful safety countermeasures.

      Huh. I guess fact-checking is important.

    5. Re:Not the biggest problem we face in journalism by izomiac · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're doing exactly what the GGGP pointed out, selectively omitting facts (albeit possibly unintentionally). The study is true only for what was studied, and one needs to be cautious in extrapolating to the general population. E.g., how many gang members were in the non-gun carrying control group? Why are they implying causation at the end, when the data mentioned only suggests a correlation?

      I'm a bit skeptical since I recently heard the local forensic pathologist speak about gun shot wounds. Apparently, most of them in my city are due to gang violence, domestic violence, and hunting accidents. The first two seem that they'd strongly influence the aforementioned study. Demographics also come into play, since something like 15-20% of Americans are uninsured compared to 90% of gun shot victims. That said, the pathologist was fairly anti-gun ownership (unsurprising given his job). His data made me lean in the opposite direction though.

      But, since I don't want to get too caught up with trying to minimize a single piece of evidence, how does pointing to that single piece of evidence refute the GP's point about selection omission? If you want a decent demonstration of that effect, Google "Kennesaw, Georgia". It's a town that enacted a mandatory gun ownership law in the '80s and had crime rates drop. Surely this is a notable point in the gun debate, but seems to be rarely mentioned outside of conservatives preaching to the choir.

  3. Re:Wait by Concerned+Onlooker · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yes, it's a bullshit job. Then again, so is being a programmer, lawyer, salesman, investment banker, teacher.... Everybody thinks every other profession is less valuable than their own.

    Not all journalism is good, just like not all programmers are good. But journalism is not a bullshit job. There are some bad ones out there, but the very idea of journalism is reporting, not interpreting, and that is an extremely valuable service. If you would like your information thoroughly researched and verified experimentally then good luck trying to negotiate the real fast-paced world where getting the latest information has strategic value.

    This is not a defense of sloppy reporting or for not verifying sources and facts, it's mostly a rebuttal to an incredibly broad and useless generalization about the profession of journalism.

    --
    http://www.rootstrikers.org/
  4. Kinda ironic by bomanbot · · Score: 3, Interesting

    No wonder that this sort of article is posted on Techcrunch, those guys clearly have a lot of experience in that regard! ;-)

    And no, I do not want to flame, they even use an older Techcrunch story as an example in TFA. They really speak from experience.

  5. Quote attribution incorrect - C. H. Spurgeon's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    It is ironic that the summery which blasts the misinformation of bloggers gets quote attribution wrong: "A lie will go round the world while truth is pulling its boots on" is usually attributed to Mark Twain but the quotation was delivered in a sermon titled "Joesph attacked by the archers" in 1855 by C. H. Spurgeon! - Most misinformation I guess. ;-) - http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0017.htm

    1. Re:Quote attribution incorrect - C. H. Spurgeon's by clickety6 · · Score: 3, Informative

      And even then the quotation is based on an earlier proverb and there are earlier printed versions of it e.g. "Falsehood flies, and the truth comes limping after it" Jonathan Swift, The Examiner, 9 Nov. 1710 or "Falsehood will fly from Maine to Georgia, while truth is pulling her boots on", Portland (Me.) Gazette, 5 Sept 1820

      --
      ----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
  6. Some journalists check their facts, others don't by nbauman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've been a journalist since 1978, and the most important thing I learned was to go back to the source and check my facts. Most bloggers don't check their facts. But don't feel bad. A lot of New York Times reporters don't check their facts either.

    Every journalist learns quickly that you hear some shocking story, you call up the accused to check it out, and the story often turns out to be misleading, misinterpreted, wrong or downright lie (think weapons of mass destruction).

    I write about medicine. I once did a story on needle exchange programs. http://www.nasw.org/users/nbauman/needlex.htm The scientific evidence seemed overwhelming that needle exchanges saved lives, but a lot of doctors, and politicians, were obstructing them. I spoke to Herbert Kleber, who was supposed to be one of the bad guys who was obstructing them. To my surprise, he had changed his position because of the weight of the scientific evidence. Happens all the time. But I see bloggers attacking people for things they don't actually believe, because they didn't check their facts.

    We old guys have been working to develop what you now call the Internet for >60 years. Independent journalists like George Seldes and I.F. Stone used to do a great job, and we were looking forward to the great day when a lone journalist could publish a newsletter without printing and postage costs. It's been good and bad.

    The most obvious flaw that I notice in blogs is that most of them -- but not all -- don't check their facts. It's a big game of telephone. Some blogger cuts and pastes a paragraph from another blog, which came from another blog ... which came from the New York Times. I can read the NYT myself. If you want to add value to that story, you can check the NYT's facts, and in my experience, you have a pretty good chance of finding them wrong. Make a fucking phone call to the original source and see if the NYT got it right. Or check out a different source. If you want a lesson in journalism, examine their health care reform coverage.

    It's like replicating DNA. A bunch of enzymes copies a stand of DNA, and then another bunch of enzymes checks the duplicated strand to make sure it's copied right. If you don't have error-checking enzymes, you wind up with (sometimes disastrous) mistakes.

    There are a lot of blogs that are written by people who have such a good command of the facts, have such expertise, that they're not likely to make mistakes -- they've already checked out the facts, for their academic work or their books, like Juan Cole and Glen Greenwald.

    But most journalists aren't experts. They have to check their facts with the experts. That's the game. No matter how smart I am, I interview and quote somebody who knows more than me.

    The best Internet journalism that I follow is http://www.democracynow.org/ Notice how Democracy Now interviews people on the other side all the time.

    A blogger who does nothing more than copy a story from a major news source like the NYT, or, even worse, from a blogger who wouldn't meet the reliable source standards of Wikipedia, is just adding noise, not useful information.

    If you want to add useful information to the Internet, you're not going to find it on the Internet, obviously. Call up an expert and get some new information. And then call up an expert who disagrees with him, to make sure he hasn't given you a sales job.

  7. That's why... by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 4, Funny

    That's why I only trust Slashdot to bring me tech journalism of the highest integrity.

    --
    This guy's the limit!
  8. Re:Facts? by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Ever hear the saying "Tell a lie often enough and it will become true?" That's what TFA is talking about.

    It's not that it actually -is- true, it's obviously not. But people believe and act on the lie as if it were true, so it might as well be as far as anybody but those who know the truth is concerned. Retractions are often met with skepticism, making getting the truth out much more difficult.

    It's like in the office, if someone starts a rumor that Suzie has been giving the boss a little "extra service" after hours, and neither Suzie nor the boss hear about it until after it has spread around the whole company, it is too late to stop it. There likely isn't any solid proof one way or another, and anyway the truth does not spread like a lie does. You don't get a wildfire of "Did you hear Suzie really hasn't been doing anything with the boss?" spreading around, it just doesn't happen. So at the very least the lie has damaged Suzie's reputation the most in our culture, but if it goes far enough Management could decide to fire one or both of them based on the rumor.

    Sensationalist journalism is simply the office rumor magnified a thousand times, with the potential for destructin a thousand times greater.

    It would be really great if people just regarded everything they heard with a nice big dose of skepticism. "Yahoo released 200,000 people's identity info? Says who?" That would be a great start, because when it turns out it's some guy with a blog, who got his info from some kid with a blog in another country, the credibility starts to drop and people stop believing it.

    --
    Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
  9. Re:Dan Rather *still* works as a "journalist" by noundi · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'd say calling journalism a "bullshit job" is an insult to bullshit.

    You know -- if there was a foundation representing the rights of male cow fecal matter I would apologize this instant. I'm serious -- you make a very valid point.

    --
    I am the lawn!
  10. Re:functional reputation systems by Animats · · Score: 3, Informative

    peer-weighted reputation...

    Peer-weighted reputation, like "web of trust" systems, won't work if the "peers" are anonymous. Otherwise, we get link farms and similar forms of bulk spamming.

    Even without anonymity, imagine Rush's "dittoheads" as a source of authority for news.

  11. Churchill "quote" is a fake - actually Callaghan by fantomas · · Score: 2, Informative

    Oh the irony. Slashdot posts a story about bloggers not checking their stories and says:

    "This is the reality of the blogosphere, where Churchill's remark: that "a lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on" is more true, and more potentially damaging, than at any time in history.'"

    It looks like you didn't check your reference, like the bloggers you accuse.
    It seems that the original quote was by British Prime Minister Jim Callaghan in the 1970s, not Winston Churchill, and he said "boots" not "pants".
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3288907.stm

    In the UK "pants" means "underwear" and not "trousers" as in the USA. Was Callaghan taking a quote from Churchill talking about underwear? I don't know. I'd welcome further reference hunting....

  12. Re:Wait by RocketRabbit · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's not useless. What passes for journalism nowadays is rehashing wire feeds and making reports that are editorial in nature. Perception shaping is where the profession is, and always was. It's just that they have been dropping the facade with increasing rapidity, or the quality of graduates is declining.

    Journalism is about lickspittle flacks following Obama around. It's about telling us what and how to think. It's a bunch of Judith Millers and Jeff Gannons all scrambling over each other to lick the pus infested butthole of the people in power, in hopes of getting another paycheck. And as they are realizing their model is irrelevant, and the people they wanted to sell dead trees to aren't interested in their rehashed, editorial thought shaping, they are begging to be put on the dole so society won't crumble when they are gone! That's fucking audacity.

    I am agnostic, and the only news source I even slightly trust these days is the CSM. They seem to realize that reportage is important, and we can make the editorials up in our mind. Other news I get over shortwave radio and the internet, but I don't really trust it. However I would trust Pravda over the New York Times any day.

    Yes, there are some journalists who try their damnedest to report what they see, and attempt to do so with integrity. But they are mostly working for bullshit artists of the first rate.

  13. Slashdot is one of the worst culprits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Here is a recent example; the 128-bit Windows troll by Barry Collins at PC Pro.

    There has never been a "Robert Morgan" working at Microsoft Research. The Google cache version of the LinkedIn profile cited in the article states that he attended "Glendale University." A modicum of effort researching this will reveal that Glendale University is an unaccredited online degree supplier that sells you a "degree" for "what you already know."

    In other words, that 128-bit Windows story was a complete and total troll. Anybody who even attempted to do any fact-checking would have discovered this within 30 seconds. I still don't see an admission of error and an apology from the PC Pro or the Slashdot editors appended to the article.

  14. Re:Churchill "quote" is a fake - actually Callagha by fluxrad · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A quick intertubes search reveals this quote is well over 150 years old and is really more of a proverb than a quote.

    But yeah, the OP did abuse is pretty badly.

    --
    "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
  15. Re:Dan Rather *still* works as a "journalist" by amplt1337 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Er, not to mention that the claim was valid, even if the documents weren't.
    Dan Rather got dinged because he cited the wrong source in his proof that objects fall to Earth, which happened to be politically unpopular at the time...

    --
    Freedom isn't free; its price is the well-being of others.