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Is Working For the Gambling Industry a Black Mark?
An anonymous reader writes 'I'm a recent university graduate and I have been offered a software developer position in a company that supplies software to the gambling and betting industry. At first I was very excited about the opportunity, however, a few of my friends have told me that working for the gambling industry will put a permanent black mark on my career as a software developer. I don't know that many people in the industry with experience in hiring. Google has not helped, and everybody else I ask doesn't know. So I'm asking Slashdot. In your experience is this true? When you hire developers, is the fact that they worked for a gambling company a big turn off? Also, I'm currently in the UK, but would like the freedom of working in US or somewhere else later on in life. So experience from anywhere in the world is welcome.'
More of a roll of the dice.
Personally, I've never heard of this. But do you really want to gamble with your career?
/rimshot
Seriously, as a hiring manager I care if you can do the job I am hiring you for. If that's software development then that means I'm looking for education, experience, and successfully completed projects. I really can't delve into the minds of HR types so I guess they might hold it against you in the more conservative parts of the country, but they are generally used as a glorified GREP from what I have seen.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Why would it be a black mark?
If anything, it shows that you can work in a highly regulated field that moves a LOT of money around at a LOT of locations with HIGH security.
As long as none of your references are named Guido, you should be fine.
http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/11/26/1758210
In today's economy, a job is a job
Maybe if this, working for the gambling industry, is your concern, you don't really need a job.
Admittedly I've never worked with anyone from that industry, but that's more due to location (I don't live near Vegas). Depending on what you're doing, some skills will be useful and some won't. I don't see any reason why not to hire someone because they worked in gambling. For that matter I know a lot of programmers who play poker.
I might stay away from internet gambling sites if you want to work in the US though- the US has arrested executives of them before. But it's not that gambling is a black mark, its that running an online gambling site is illegal, and they might decide to arrest you for helping to do so. The company that hired you is unlikely to care about that though.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
My first job after college was in the gaming industry. It has NOT been a black mark on my record, in fact, quite the opposite, it led to my next three jobs and was a factor in the fourth and fifth because another programmer from the same company was also contracting there at the time.
What it did do, though, was set the start of a pattern for me that I've been unable to escape: 1 to 2 year positions at small companies contracting. I suspect that if you're going to work for Bally Midway or some other such big slot machine company, that wouldn't be a problem- but table gaming software even 10 years after the .com I first worked for is still very much in it's infancy, we're not about to replace dealers with robots and just about tech you put into the pit is going to be somewhat hackable or vulnerable to everything from card counting to spilled alcoholic drinks they insist on comping the players with to keep them playing, so it's kind of a tough business to get into. I'm glad I escaped.
Having said that- in this economy a RCG can't pick and choose- you MUST take the first thing that comes along- so go ahead and go for it. Vegas may be the suicide capitol of the US, but it isn't the worst place you could end up living.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Anything can be a black mark if the person hiring dislikes it. There is nothing particularly unique about gambling.
I worked in the gaming industry, and didnt have any problem getting work afterward. My next employer was pleased that I had worked in a highly regulated industry where if our new code caused downtime, we had to explain to a state gaming board about how it happened.
Well, anecdotal evidence but I do live in Vegas and I worked in a non gaming software company here with people who previously worked for gaming companies and moved on to other jobs without any problems. One of them works for a major military contractor right now, after working for IGT (who makes most of Vegas slot machines) for years. So I don't think it's a problem. I guess it depends on the details. If your job offer is from one of the offshore poker sites or other sites illegal in the USA, it might be a different story.
Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
It's never been an issue for me, and out of my approximately 15 years in IT, I've spent about 10 of them working for gaming or wagering companies. If anything, gaming or wagering companies seem to prefer people with experience in that industry, so in effect you are probably creating more opportunities for yourself down the track rather than less.
Oh, and if you're getting into a highly regulated area such as slots or table games, you'll find that you'll have no choice but to gain skills in careful attention to detail in areas like version control, configuration management, hardware control, and security. That sort of rigour in those important things will serve you well no matter what your next role.
"Gambling, pretty much by definition, has to work with people who don't know what they are doing."
I'm not entirely sure how you managed to arrive at this conclusion.
People gambling aren't always idiots that think "Ima go win a million bucks". Often times they are people that do it for recreation or fun knowing full well that they're loosing money. For example, you can gamble at a slot machine for many hours on only $20-$50. Some people have fun watching the wheels spin and lights flash. For them, it's worth the money. Other people enjoy the social aspect of gambling such as in blackjack where the players aren't competing against each other. Or in craps, where the players are all competing against... the shooter... or the house.. unless they roll a 7 and it's the third tuesday of the month.... anyway, there's a lot of people cheering for someone so someone is having fun.
-1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
You've just described about 90% of all jobs.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is usually crucified.
Showgirls.
If they're not Real Estate Agents/Mortgage Brokers/Daytime Call Girls, they're vampires. You never EVER see them during the day, they pancake on the make-up with a trowel for good reason, and most of them are either taken by large burly boyfriends, or not interested in anything with a Y chromosome.
Oh, to be a young college grad working in Vegas!
Been there, done that. Fought in the dating wars in Vegas from '01-'06. And the only way you ever got lucky was if you had money (to buy girls with), or were a "Vegas Boy", meaning you had no body fat, perfect abs, perfect tan, perfect teeth, perfect hair, wore polo shirts and khaki shorts, and generally sported more bling than most girls do. Oh, and driving a hot car. Just remember, Vegas is one of the few places left in the US where you don't have to have a high school degree to make 40K a year. Lotsa dim, good-looking young boys and girls come to Vegas to party, work crap jobs and make lots of money, which they then promptly spend on partying, and repeat.
And prostitution is legal!
Now this is a valid point. But prostitution is only legal in certain sections of the county, and not in Clark County. So you'd have to drive an hour northwest to Pahrump, where the brothels are at. This is what the smart guys do. Prostitution is NOT legal in Vegas itself, and Vegas Metro's Vice division has lots of fun arresting stupid young dicks trying to pick some tail up when they could have driven an hour away and had lots of tail for the same amount of cash LEGALLY. And then there's the stories of all the scams and robberies perpetrated... Oh yes, loads of fun. Couldn't leave there fast enough.
Here's to hot beer, cold women, and Glaswegian kisses for all.
The way banks and other financial services companies operate these days, working in gambling would be a GREAT introduction to the world of credit default swaps and mortgage-backed securities. Next stop: WALL STREET!
I don't see experience with a gambling site to be an instant disqualifier. Maybe if that's the only kind of site you were involved in it would be, but if it's one of various projects, it shouldn't be big deal.
The only time a resume gets thrown into the trashcan right away is if I see "telemarketing" in any fashion that doesn't involve stopping them or hunting them down. It's something you try to hide, not something to put on your resume. I want someone with some brains.
Also, as an aside: try to avoid going into detail about any activities that are trivial compared to the job you're applying for. Some people seem to think that if they have a 10 page resume padded with irrelevant history, they'll look better. Nope, doesn't work.
see a Text Widget
As somebody who DID work as a systems administrator for a publicly traded, Canadian based company that supplies software to the online gambling industry I can say that unless you're an executive it will have no bearing on your future employment any more than working for an 'evil' defence contractor or such will. Sure, you'd have a hard time getting a job at amnesty international after working for BEA, but the experience you'll get will open more doors elsewhere. The company had far more trouble hiring people who were willing to work for the company, in fact. Though in Canada 'online gambling' had a much more negative connotation than it does in England, where betting shops are everywhere.
The experience I got was very worthwhile. I got to travel to interesting locations to setup the servers. Places like Curacao in the Caribbean, Malta, Ireland, the netherlands (we did work for the government casinos there, in fact), etc. I started out in a very jr position, but moved up extremely quickly because I was capable and they had a hard time finding good people who were willing to work for them. This gave me Sr-level quality within 2 years. I've since moved on, but I would do it again in a second. It's not been a black mark on me at all and people are usually curious about it. Because of complex legal and national regulations, the accountants also were in a similar position. They had a lot of trouble getting quality accountants, so they had to get more Jr. ones who moved up fast.
The executives had far more trouble after leaving, though they also ran the company rather poorly. In fact I'd say that the worst part was having to work with/for some people that I would consider less than high caliber. Because of this, I became the go-to guy to fix poor decisions made from incompetence at the CTO and director level.
I haven't worked in the gambling industry myself, but based on what I've read about its extreme computing requirements, I'd be very interested in seeing a resume from someone who had worked in it. The same goes for parts of the online porn industry for much the same reason. Both are very technically challenging environments and are often leaders in innovation. Their achievements aren't lauded as much as they might be if the subject matter wasn't so unseemly in the minds of many, but at the end of the day, data is data.
I'd recommend going for it. Even at its worst, it's nowhere near as disreputable as, let's say, being on the development team for MS Access.
Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
Don't forget poker, where good statistical knowledge can give you a big advantage.
I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
And some people would call you an idiot for spending $20-$50 on a video game, because there are better options out there. Quite simply, there will ALWAYS be a better option, depending on who you are, how you were raised, etc. So everyone can go around calling each other idiots because of their favorite pastime. Seems kinda pointless doesn't it? Just because video games are your form of poison doesn't mean they are for everybody and it certainly doesn't make them a better choice for everyone else.
Three days from now?? Thats tomorrow!! ~Peter Griffin
I just don't buy it, I don't see how it could be fun without the suspension of disbelief. The only way I could see it being fun is dreaming about winning big and fooling yourself into thinking it might happen. Dichotomy of the mind, part of you knows better and part of you wants to suspend disbelief. I can buy the social aspect of it though, no doubt. Congratulating winners can give you part of the rush they feel. Either way, I don't think its because gamblers are any stupider than I am. I just think it might be a common problem in our species.
-The world would be a better place if everyone had a hoverboard
At least in all of Europe. You already know it, when you find out, that all of them are on some small island with specific tax rules. They are very close to the whole fraud industry.
Here in Germany, they were caught more than once, fixing all bets. Even on huge events like soccer & co.
I think of it as the legal arm of the criminals. And if you are in contact with them, soon you end up doing other things where you have to bend your moral values to the breaking point.
I bet if you dig, you can put half of them straight to jail.
I know this, because I worked with them. And I would keep as far away from them, as you'd do with the mafia.
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
Craps is the only game I've ever played, at Star City in Sydney. I went into the casino flat broke one night with my housemates and scored two non-exchangeable $10 betting vouchers (one for signing up for some members' card thing I've never used, the other a prize from the free scratchie that came with it). After 20 or 30 minutes being taught how to play craps I quit with $30 cash, which kept me in food and nicotine until I got paid two days later. Then I got to watch one of my housemates drop almost $100 in a minute on consecutive dumbass $5 and $10 yo bets. No surprise, we found out soon after that he was a compulsive gambler and had lied about his employment, and shortly after that he skipped the state, owing us around $5000.
I love bright colours and flashy lights as much as the next person whose life ambition is to work their way through Erowid in alphabetical order but dammit, there are so many better places to see them. Buy yourself some holospex and come to a rave or something.
Sadly, they are similiar in that people cheat either way.
Whether it's loaded dice or insider data, someone is always happy to rip someone else off.
How is it so hard to understand that playing a game for stakes can be simple, recreational fun? Going into an evening of gambling with only the money you are prepared to lose is no different than going to a fair or holiday holding only the money you are prepared to spend on rides, gifts, foods, and frivolous purchases.
Loban Amaan Rahman ==> Anagram of ==> Aha! An Abnormal Man!
You'd think so. As an undergrad, I played poker against a statistics post-doc, a mathematics student, a law student, and a sports science student. Most games were won by either myself or the sports science student...
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Just because they are statistics pros doesn't mean they have studied the game theory of poker, nor does it mean they are trying. Sometimes it also depends on what kind of poker you are playing. Some versions are more predictable than others.
I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.