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EFF Warns TI Not To Harass Calculator Hobbyists

Ponca City, We love you writes "The EFF has warned Texas Instruments not to pursue legal threats against calculator hobbyists who perform modifications to the company's programmable graphing calculators. TI's calculators perform a 'signature check' that allows only approved operating systems to be loaded, but researchers have reverse-engineered signing keys, allowing tinkerers to install custom operating systems and unlock new functionality in the calculators' hardware. In response, TI has unleashed a torrent of demand letters claiming that the anti-circumvention provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act require the hobbyists to take down commentary about and links to the keys. 'This is not about copyright infringement. This is about running your own software on your own device — a calculator you legally bought,' says EFF Civil Liberties Director Jennifer Granick. 'Yet TI still issued empty legal threats in an attempt to shut down discussion of this legitimate tinkering. Hobbyists are taking their own tools and making them better, in the best tradition of American innovation.'"

76 of 405 comments (clear)

  1. Nonsense. by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Hobbyists are taking their own tools and making them better, in the best tradition of American innovation"? I think you misspelled "Pirates and cyber-terrorists are stealing money from TI's hardworking engineers at virtual gunpoint."

    1. Re:Nonsense. by TubeSteak · · Score: 5, Funny

      I think you misspelled "Pirates and cyber-terrorists are stealing money from TI's hardworking engineers at virtual gunpoint."

      Now we just need to spice thay message up with a flavorful rap.
      "Don't tinker with your pocket thinker"
      "It's not cool to mod your calc in school"
      etc

      /I know it'll never compare to "don't copy that floppy" but it's a start.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    2. Re:Nonsense. by milkmage · · Score: 2, Insightful

      whatthefuck?

      If I buy a TI or anything else, how is that STEALING from the people that made it. they asked for a fair price, I paid. what difference does it make to them what I use it for once they have their money.

      does that mean I can't install linux on my computer without being called a cyberterrorist?

    3. Re:Nonsense. by palegray.net · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think you missed the sarcasm in the GP.

    4. Re:Nonsense. by Cyberia · · Score: 5, Funny

      Ummm... My opinion is that the hobbyists are just trying to fix some bugs in calculators that the *IAA has been running into. Like for example, when they calculate damages. I think the results look similar to this: 3055 songs pirated * 0.99 per song = $309,234,408,345,345,384.94 in damages...

    5. Re:Nonsense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I think you misspelled, "I am too stupid to detect sarcasm in a text-based medium".

    6. Re:Nonsense. by Amazing+Quantum+Man · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well, he was going to program his TI to act as a sarcasm detector, but....

      --
      Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
    7. Re:Nonsense. by werewolf1031 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "An unjust law is itself a species of violence. Arrest for its breach is more so"
      ~some skinny bald pacifist guy...

      Point being, of course, that just because something is codified into law, doesn't necessarily make it right.

    8. Re:Nonsense. by schon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Which code, precisely, is being protected?

      Breaking the checksum allows you to load alternate code on the calculator, so how exactly does it protect a copyrighted work?

    9. Re:Nonsense. by Xaositecte · · Score: 2, Funny

      Communists aren't really people. C'mon, you know this one already.

    10. Re:Nonsense. by athlon02 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I know you're kidding, but the sad thing is that this is probably just company lawyers trying to justify their jobs. Most TI engineers are likely to not care or love the hacks for the geek factor. TI ought to capitalize on this, not suppress it.

    11. Re:Nonsense. by arogier · · Score: 2, Funny

      If someone wants their TI-89 to operate under the rule that 2+2=5 or that pi=3, it is only righteous for them to do math as their whims dictate. Peforming non-arithmetic addition should be something someone only needs to switch the operating system to accomplish. Asking someone to create chips to accomplish the task sets the bar for prank calculators artificially high.

    12. Re:Nonsense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      There is no issue with the legality of what the hackers did. Article 17, section 1201(f) explicitly exempts this situation (from http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap12.html#1201):
      "a person ... may circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a particular portion of that program ... that are necessary to achieve interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs"

    13. Re:Nonsense. by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 4, Informative

      Bullshit, the "checksum" (really a cryptographic key used for verifying signatures) is free for all to see as well, all we did was factorize it.

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
    14. Re:Nonsense. by Romancer · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes you are.

      You are allowed to totally reload any software onto that hardware that you legally own/create/patch to make work.
      You are not allowed to use that altered or custom software to gain free access to their programming database for schedule information since that's part of the subscription you signed up for to use the box as it was. That's not to say that you couldn't make some software that gets the onformation from another source and uses the hardware to do the DVR functions using alternate drivers and all.

      You purchased the box and subscribe to the service. If you don't want the service you can cancel. Unless you got a deal for signing up for a number of years you're done with them and keep the hardware. You can now do with it as you please. Smash it with a hammer, sell it on ebay, or load a flavor of linux and have a dedicated dvr box with full control of the hardware you own. Minus the warranty of course. But really? What are electronics warranties worth these days anyway? Hack it!

      --


      ) Human Kind Vs Human Creation
      ) It'd be interesting to see how many humans would survive to serve us.
    15. Re:Nonsense. by greenbird · · Score: 2, Interesting

      the "checksum" (really a cryptographic key used for verifying signatures) is free for all to see

      Ummm...every book I read is free for me to see also once I bought the book. Same with the calculator.

      --
      Who is John Galt?
    16. Re:Nonsense. by BitZtream · · Score: 2, Insightful

      God I hate this sort of statement.

      While the guys making hacks obviously know a bit about the technology as they managed to get something working.

      That in no way makes them qualified software engineers or developers.

      I regularly turn out a 'hack' in a weekend, then spend a month getting it production ready, testing it, trying everything I can think of to break it, then throwing every automated test (based on stuff our customers have done) at it, then double checking documentation, and plenty of other stuff that I don't have on the top of my head at the moment.

      This is something the FOSS supporters and hackers of the world don't get, the 'writing the first draft of the software' part is the easy part, and its also puts you at about the 5 to 10% complete stage. Documentation, Quality Assurance and other bits of the presentation are actually far more important to the customer 9 times out of 10.

      Making a hack is generally the easiest part of the entire development process, and just because you can make one, doesn't mean you're a developer or engineer, stop thinking it does. Its only a small part of the job.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    17. Re:Nonsense. by MBGMorden · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But a checksum, unlike a book, is not a creative work. It's a mathematical result. Mathematical facts cannot be copyrighted.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    18. Re:Nonsense. by Hatta · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think this has to do with TI maintaining their monopoly on the educational market. TI calculators are just about the only ones high-school math teachers support. Those teachers need to know that the calculators in their classrooms don't have extra programs that would help a kid cheat on a test. That's easy enough to check with the default TI OS. If the OS has been replaced, all bets are off.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    19. Re:Nonsense. by Demonspawn · · Score: 3, Interesting

      A long time ago I was doing consulting work and had the misfortune of being selected for jury duty. As I would not be fully-compensated for my time (I was my own employer), I wanted to get out of that case as fast as possible. I figured I wouldn't even get selected, so I'd just lose that one day.

      In Jury selection in my county, everyone is called into a holding area (cafeteria) and then groups of 30 or so are selected to sit in the courtroom for the jury selection. I was selected for a group, and then selected to sit in the jury box as one of the initial 12. I was going to be on the case.

      Initial arguments was the case was about a guy fighting Carrying concealed without a permit charges. The 12 of us in the box were asked individually "is there anything that would prevent us from ruling on this case in accordance to the laws?"

      I didn't have the time to sit on the case, so I replied "I'm a Constitutionalist and I know what Jury Nullification means."

      Oh, I was released alright; SO WAS EVERY PROSPECTIVE JUROR IN THE ROOM!!!!

      30 of us got out of jury duty because I said the magic words. The State is that afraid of people knowing they have power over them.

      The experience greatly influenced my view of government.

  2. Jailbreaking iPhones? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    someone show apple this news. :/

    1. Re:Jailbreaking iPhones? by rgo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Although they are blocking exploits on every iPhone OS release, I didin't know that Apple was sending C&Ds to jailbrakers.

    2. Re:Jailbreaking iPhones? by recoiledsnake · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They're not. But facts wouldn't get in the way of some good old fashioned hyperbole, particularly if it involves whatever vendor you're choosing to hate.

      Wrong, the crap that Apple pulls is way worse than TI can dream of.

      Calculators are not advertised or thought of by most people as mobile computers. TI doesn't advertize "There's an App for that". It's sad that Apple forces developers to jump through hoops just to get an App proved and bans any political or other useful Apps under the name of duplicate functionality. Apple also has a forced developer tax of 30% and hence prohibits downloads from the developer's website. The alternative is to jailbreak, but it breaks when updated and is not for casual users. Apple even says that the iPhone and iPod touch can be considered as netbooks(which are otherwise normal computers without the App store bullshit).

      --
      This space for rent.
    3. Re:Jailbreaking iPhones? by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 2, Informative

      Apple is advertising the strength of their App store, showing off the apps available, and then contrasting that to the usefulness of a netbook.

      I think Apple's wrong here, a netbook is way more useful, but, they're certainly doing nothing that's immoral or worse than what TI's doing.

      TI's out to protect itself and the institutions that depend on the OS being in a protected state. hence they're putting pressure on the TI calc community. What makes it worse is that if they litigate, they'll win. Most users aren't calc hackers and this ensures TI's core calc business.

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    4. Re:Jailbreaking iPhones? by BitZtream · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Jesus christ will you people shut the fuck up about the iPhone.

      'Apple Tax', 'Stealing from the developers', 'Monopoly'

      Yea, what the fuck ever, as an iPhone developer myself, let me tell you how much I care ... not a damn bit.

      Rather than spending your time whining about how apple sucks and limits you as a developer, get off your lazy fucking ass, write the app, pay the $100, put it on the app store and make your $100 back in a week, LITERALLY.

      The app store is a fucking cash cow for developers with even half a clue. Sorry you have to pay them a cut of the profits and they have to approve you, but heres another hint, all 10 people that find your website and your app and buy it from you don't compare to the thousands of people who will come across your app when its on the app store, even as an exteremely low ranking app.

      No normal user gives a fuck about jailbreaking. What can you do with a jailbreak? Run apps in the background, thats about it, well anyone who has used an iPhone as a development platform will tell you just how much that sucks the battery out of the device. A 3 day charge turns into an 8 hour charge. Users REALLY DON'T WANT YOUR SHITTY BACKGROUND APP JUST TO GET FACEBOOK IMS!

      REALLY, they don't

      You arent required to buy an iPhone. You aren't required to use an iPhone. You aren't required to develop for an iPhone. YOU in particular aren't even smart enough to realize WHY you would want to do any of that, you're just too busy worried about how Apple controls other peoples lives.

      Everyone who owns an iPhone is generally pretty damn happy with them. The only people that talk like this that I've come across are just jealous for one reason or another of apples success or have iPhone envy. Yes, thats all it is. EVERYONE already knows about all the 'Bad Stuff' (tm) that Apple does with the iPhone, no one cares, except you douche bags who are STILL bringing it up.

      Heres the party line:

      Apple sucks, DRM, Lockdown, Apple Tax, carrier lockin (insert more rambling bullshit sounding like the adults from Peanuts), our FOSS software is better and is FREE!

          Who gives a shit about your half complete crapware, Apples device and software is Cool, makes sense for people who just pick it up without a manual, and 'just works'.

      Just Works means that while people are dicking with downloads, dependancies and other bullshit to get your shitty software to work, a touch or two on the App store and a dollar out of their pocket and their good to go.

      Spend less of your time being a retarded jealous whining bitch.

      Spend more of your time making something superior, then Apples practices will not matter.

      You, and everyone like you, sounds just like the RIAA.

      We suck, no one wants to buy our stuff, lets make up some bullshit and attack everyone else, including our customers in order to sell more of our crapware!

      You keep being a whiney bitch with 0 market share, and the rest of us will continue to make a living off of Apples horrible horrible HORRIBLE products that people LOVE to buy.

      Ever wonder if your perspective on the world is wrong?

      I rant, sorry, retards do it to me.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  3. Uh, why just TI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What about all the similar crap that goes on with other devices? iPhone, XBOX, Wii, NDS, plus loads others?! EFF, why aren't you defending user's rights there?

    1. Re:Uh, why just TI? by palegray.net · · Score: 5, Informative

      How much money have you contributed to the EFF? It's amazing how many people make demands like yours without giving the slightest thought to the expenses involved. In addition, any movement in the right direction is progress. Maybe TI will decide to sue some hobbyists, with the EFF ready to fight for a legal precedent that might finally put a stop to this nonsense.

    2. Re:Uh, why just TI? by conteXXt · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Exactly. If the EFF decides to pursue this to the end, it will more than likely give others pause when trying to stop people from USING their PURCHASED electronic devices.

      They aren't talking about "hacking IP". They are talking about using hardware, think linux on Intel hardware. If Intel required signed bootloaders, do you think the law would protect them too?

      --
      The truth about Led Zep should never be told on /. (Karma suicide ensues)
    3. Re:Uh, why just TI? by geminidomino · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not a bad question, despite the flaming and/or dismissive replies.

      My guess is that they feel like they have a better chance of winning if TI calls their bluff about calculators than if Nintendo did about Wiis, since the "it's only for teh P1Rasee!" argument is pretty much inapplicable.

       

    4. Re:Uh, why just TI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Also it is a lot harder make claims about DRM and piracy and such when you are dealing with a calculator. So this legal fight would be easier to win than eg vs Nintendo who can say "if we don't do it we will lose X amount of money." TI can't exactly claim that they are losing money from this because they don't sell any kind of software add ons for their calculator (afaik.)

    5. Re:Uh, why just TI? by muffen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What about all the similar crap that goes on with other devices? iPhone, XBOX, Wii, NDS, plus loads others?! EFF, why aren't you defending user's rights there?

      Hacking or modding any of the consoles you listed will allow you to run copied games. You can see why the companies making the console (and apart from Wii selling the consoles at a loss) doesn't like the modding. However, you can't really claim that you are selling a TI calculator at a loss hoping to make the additional money from software sales, nor can you really claim that hacking the calculator makes you loose any money.

      Say what you will about homebrews etc, I think the vast majority who has a chipped Wii is using it to play copied games. I don't think the vast majority of TI calculator owners use it to pirate anything.

    6. Re:Uh, why just TI? by Hyppy · · Score: 2

      I 3 the EFF. I don't exactly have the cash to donate at the moment, but hopefully I can intern there when I start law school.

    7. Re:Uh, why just TI? by ZPWeeks · · Score: 3, Funny

      I 3 the EFF.

      Obviously your devotion is higher than mine, I just less than three them.

    8. Re:Uh, why just TI? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 2, Informative

      What about all the similar crap that goes on with other devices? iPhone, XBOX, Wii, NDS, plus loads others?! EFF, why aren't you defending user's rights there?

      They issued a press release about the calculators.
      They have done way more than that for the iphone and ipod - http://www.eff.org/press/mentions/2009/7/23
      They supported the "Hacking the Xbox" book by using it as a prize for people who donated to the EFF.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    9. Re:Uh, why just TI? by zerocool^ · · Score: 3, Interesting

      How much money have you contributed to the EFF?

      Over $500 in the last 5 years.

      I have a bumper sticker. But, seriously, this is one of the only groups fighting the good fight.

      --
      sig?
  4. RPN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Maybe they are afraid someone will write a decent RPN code for their calc?

  5. Early Calculator Hacks by lewko · · Score: 2, Funny

    Or maybe they'll change the startup screen to say "58008" upside down

    --
    Do you or your partner snore? - Visit www.snoring.com.au
  6. Re:I can see TI's point by MichaelSmith · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The product was not sold as a computer or development platform. It was sold as an end user product with documented functionality as described in the user's manual. Sure enough, when the hacks disable their machines TI will get the support call. Most slashdotters will probably flame me for this.

    I would be very surprised if a calculator hobbyist tried to get support for a modded device. And it is pretty easy for TI to say the warranty is void so STFU in that situation.

    How many ubuntu users make support calls to Microsoft?

  7. because TI makes a shitload off of exams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How many people have to buy the overpriced calculators because they are required for an exam.... by required I mean "approved" for use on an exam. Think about it, a calculator costing $100 dollars? What year is it again? If you could program them yourselves suddenly all those "approved" calculators aren't so trustworthy not to solve the exam for students.... although honestly if a calculator can solve the exam then probably the exam isn't testing much...

  8. Re:Perfectly valid by JohnFen · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's really hard for me to see how TI has a case under the DMCA at all. They're claiming the anti-circumvention clause, but it doesn't seem to apply here.

    The anti-circumvention clause makes it a violation to circumvent copy protection -- but what the hobbyists are circumventing in not copy protection, it's a validation key. Without the key, you can still read and copy the existing OS without a hitch. The key is needed to put you own intellectual property on the device, no to copy theirs.

    The key itself was never published by TI, and as far as I can tell was never registered with the copyright office, so copyright doesn't apply to that (even if it can apply to a number, which I doubt.)

    So where's the copyright violation? this looks like a criminal (bad faith) abuse of the DMCA to me.

  9. Re:Perfectly valid by QuoteMstr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No. The DMCA reads "No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title".

    How does TI's signing system do that? The TI system just prevents people from loading a new OS onto devices that they already own. It doesn't protect access to work.

    The DMCA is a bad law, but it's not so broad as to say "everything to which a technology company with a market capitalization of over $10 million objects is henceforth illegal."

  10. Re:Perfectly valid by Quasar1999 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    All sorts of companies produce the exact same hardware and then have a registry bit/flag hidden somewhere to enable the more expensive features. nVidia and their Quadro cards comes to mind... Or Intel and their underclock/overclock crap... the chips are identical, one is stamped with a different number and frozen at a different multiplier.

    TI probably has some features disabled or unavailable in their lower-end models, hack the software, and lo and behold, the actual hardware can probably do most of the same stuff the more expensive model can. I can see why they wouldn't want people *SHARING* this information with the general public.

    Actually, come to think of it, if TI loses on this one, I'm quite eager to start 'testing' satellite TV signals again... After all, it's just some keys used for signing, right? I purchased my hardware receiver for money, right? Quite the slippery slope, isn't it?

    --

    ---
    Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.
  11. Re:I can see TI's point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    "Computer" and "development platform" are fancy words for "calculator" and "programmable calculator", respectively.

  12. Streisand Effect by cosm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    When will companies realize that kicking and screaming about an issue they can't legitimatize will kick them in the testicles? Will T.I. really lose oodles of greenbacks because Joe geek likes to mod his calculator to play Mario or run Linux or watch porn (last item questionable). I highly doubt people hacking their calculators will cut into revenue, if anything it will increase it by bolstering interest in the extended possibilities of their products.
    Technophiles do not like to buy equipment they are legally castrated for modding or learning about the inner-workings.

    When profit is valued more than satisfaction of customers...oh wait..*status quo* *status quo*.

    The answer to the original question lies our government and legal system's ability to cease giving them the fucking pacifier every time they cry wolf.

    --
    'We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.' RPF
  13. Corporate America Must Be Tamed by Bob_Who · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Thank you EFF for confronting the corporate greed machine where it concerns this electronic frontier. Now we need to find lawyers to confront them on every other issue where citizens and consumers are ripped off and enslaved by corporate monoliths and their shareholders. People come first. Not Corporate interests. Wake up America. We need better elected officials, apparently.

  14. Re:I can see TI's point by geminidomino · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have an automotive screwdriver that was sold as an automotive screwdriver, not a...a... window...keeper-open...thing.

    If Sears/Craftsman has a problem with that, tough. Same concept.

  15. Re:Perfectly valid by Pulzar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    All sorts of companies produce the exact same hardware and then have a registry bit/flag hidden somewhere to enable the more expensive features. nVidia and their Quadro cards comes to mind... Or Intel and their underclock/overclock crap... the chips are identical, one is stamped with a different number and frozen at a different multiplier.

    That's why those types of things are done with fuses, so that's it's virtually impossible to re-enable features that have been fused out. It's certainly impossible to do purely in software.

    --
    Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 filled with CD-ROMs.
  16. The problem is losing trusted status by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The DMCA is totally ridiculous, but it's the only thing TI can grasp onto in this situation. TI graphing calculators are the de facto standard for many high school and university level math classes. It's easy to verify that one has had the memory erased when it's in an untampered state. Of course there are somewhat sneaky ways to make it look like it's been erased without close inspection, but performing the reset in front of someone made it almost a certainty. If the hack causes schools to move away from such an "untrustworthy" device, TI stands to lose many sales of those overpriced gadgets.

  17. Innovation by sincewhen · · Score: 5, Funny

    in the best tradition of American innovation

    But how can this be innovation if no-one is making any money from it?

    --
    -- Braden's law of data: All data spends some of its lifetime in an excel spreadsheet.
  18. How do you copyright factors of a number? by Myria · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The numbers they are distributing are the prime factors of the RSA key used by the calculators. The factors were determined by a general number field sieve calculation; this was effective because the keys are only 512 bits long.

    The public key itself - the modulus - might be subject to copyright. However, the prime factors were never copied from TI - they were mathematically determined from the modulus. Attacking them because they distribute numbers mathematically derived from a copyrighted number is new legal territory.

    If numbers derived from a calculation on a copyrightable number are themselves "derivative works" in the copyright sense, it would cause far-reaching problems well beyond calculators. For one thing, it would be illegal to distribute SHA-1 hashes of copyrighted material without permission.

    --
    "Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language." - Visual J++ Product Manager
  19. Re:Working as intended by langelgjm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Well, stick around some more, because it's not what the DMCA is designed to prevent.

    As others have pointed out, you can only invoke the anti-circumvention provisions of the DMCA if the technological protection measures are controlling access to a copyrighted work. Simply bypassing a measure alone is not a violation of the DMCA.

    In this case, they obtained keys that allow them to install custom software on the device. Where that software comes from may be a copyright issue, but that is not relevant to the overall matter of whether obtaining and using the keys is a violation of the DMCA. These keys control whether the hardware accepts given software; rather than controlling access to copyrighted software, the keys, in a manner of speaking, control the software's access to the hardware, so it's not a matter for the DMCA.

    --
    "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
  20. As Illegal Prime numbers... by Cliff+Stoll · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A prime number can represent information which is forbidden to possess.
    See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_prime

    This goes back about a decade to the AACS encryption key controversy.

  21. Re:Perfectly valid by X.25 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Actually, come to think of it, if TI loses on this one, I'm quite eager to start 'testing' satellite TV signals again... After all, it's just some keys used for signing, right? I purchased my hardware receiver for money, right? Quite the slippery slope, isn't it?

    Yes. Finding keys on smartcards in order to watch TV program you haven't paid for is the same as finding keys on a calculator so you can put your software on it.

    Man, you are a fucking genius.

  22. Re:Perfectly valid by bsDaemon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Because in the case of direct tv, you're paying for the service, not the hardware. If i go down to Best Buy and shell out $200 or whatever for a new TI-89 Titanium (my classic TI-89 is starting to look somewhat stayed...), then I never need anything from TI again. I take that thing, and I'm done. No real need to plug it into anything; TI doesn't beam the CAS down via CDMA wireless signal like some sort of Kindle thing.

    Basically, with the calculator, the hardware itself is the FINAL PURCHASE, whereas with DirectTV, you're basically renting the hardware as a means to access a service, which is what you're actually paying for in the end. Cheating on what you're paying for as far as channels go is clearly wrong. Modifying a piece of hardware that once bought never needs to have any interaction with the mother company again is completely different.

  23. What about the need for uniformity? by matzahboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Although a Ti-83 can definitely be enhanced by a custom OS, the usefulness of a Ti-83 would greatly decrease for students if custom OS's existed. On many standardized tests, including the SATs and ACTs, the tests specify which calculators are permitted for the test. They have a very specific list, based on which ones they think are not too powerful and would give an unfair advantage to a test taker. All ti-83's are allowed on either test for example. But if the makers of the test knew that people could have ti-83's that had undocumented, unfair functions (such as symbolic algebraic solving as in the ti-89), the test makers would most likely disallow these calculators. Why do you think TI still sells the Ti-83 plus, a calculator created in 1999? Certainly hardware abilities and processor speeds have greatly increased in the last 10 years. The reason is that test makers will not accept calculators with very powerful abilities. They want the student to solve the problem and not the calculator. When browsing calculators at education.ti.com, each calculator has a page called "exam acceptance" (ex. http://education.ti.com/educationportal/sites/US/productDetail/us_ti83p.html?bid=2). That is because TI sells a large number of its calculators to students. The custom OS's could greatly hurt TI's reputation in the eyes of its biggest supporters: the test makers.

    1. Re:What about the need for uniformity? by cdrguru · · Score: 2, Informative

      Oh come on, is that the best you can come up with? "undocumented, unfair functions (such as symbolic algebraic solving ...)"

      How about a reprogrammed calculator that simply stores answers? Looks like a calculator but is in fact a data retrieval device that holds all your crib notes. I'd say that is clearly a lot more useful to the exam taker in terms of cheating and would certainly be something that would be disallowed in an exam. Just like pulling out your iPhone would get you ejected from most serious exams.

    2. Re:What about the need for uniformity? by Ranzear · · Score: 3, Interesting

      When you take most tests, the test takers take this in to account and force you to reset your calculators, deleting all of your programs that you could have stored your notes in. There is no way to check for a different OS

      Except this is easily circumvented by faking a memory reset in the calculator's own programming. There are even assembly-programmed 'calculator in a calculator' tricks through ZShell and other means to even make the calculator appear to have wiped itself clean and empty, even a fake and working 'memory' screen and an apparently complete working emulation of the base calculator (Xzibit would be proud). One little button combo or phrase and the calculator exits the fakeout to access whatever you like, and can even be put back to the emulation by a panic button.

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      Slashdot: Where opinions are just opinions until you have mod points.
    3. Re:What about the need for uniformity? by CodeBuster · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The custom OS's could greatly hurt TI's reputation in the eyes of its biggest supporters: the test makers.

      Well cry me a river, why is that the problem of hardware hackers who have already PAID for their devices? If we had a law against every activity which might damage somebody else's business model then we would be living in a police state already. If the test makers don't want "powerful calculators" used on their exams then why not simply ban all calculators? If they are interested in testing mathematical knowledge rather than rote arithmetic or button pressing ability then why not simply design the test along those lines in the first place and enforce the suggested ban against electronic assistance? Technology is a moving target which will change over time; attempting to fix it in place by law, for whatever reason, is both destructive and counter-productive.

    4. Re:What about the need for uniformity? by matzahboy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I wasn't saying that it was against the law. In fact, I disagree with TI's use of DMCA takedown notices. However, I said that I understood why TI wanted to not allow custom OS's. There are certain (though very few) technology devices that can be fundamentally hurt by customization.

    5. Re:What about the need for uniformity? by khallow · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The calculators should be issued by the test makers. It's their test and their responsibility. These exams are already very expensive. Such a thing wouldn't significantly change the cost of the exam.

    6. Re:What about the need for uniformity? by ProfessionalCookie · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Gross! I was a die hard Casio user in a sea of TIness. I wouldn't have survived the learning curve of a TI calculator during a test.

    7. Re:What about the need for uniformity? by Arlet · · Score: 2

      You could just write down "sqrt(sin(53.128457638) + e^(3.563462378 * pi)) " on the answer sheet. The conversion to a single number is trivial with a calculator, so there is no need to include that in the exam.

    8. Re:What about the need for uniformity? by khallow · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Only one problem with that. You ever seen how people abuse things that they are borrowing even for a short time? Plus the calculators would have to be lugged from test site to test site giving even more room for them to be broken.

      Calculators are cheap. Just buy more.

      And what happens to the person who can't get a calculator because one got broken on the trip to the test site?

      Bring extras or refund the test taker's money. It's not hard.

      Truly, the test makers should just go back to not allowing programmable graphing calculators and allow nothing better than a scientific calculator. That is all a student should need for taking a test.

      And how do they know that a student hasn't modded their calculator to be either "programmable" or a communication device? This whole affair illustrates a flaw with the standardized tests. Namely, that they're more interested in reducing liability (and a rather weak liability at that) than in producing a reliable and trustworthy test.

  24. You don't by langelgjm · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Not really. The argument about the AACS key was not that the number itself was copyrighted, but rather that the number was the means to circumvent the protection measures controlling access to a copyrighted work. Thus, distribution of the number was a violation of the DMCA.

    I'm not aware of anyone claiming that the number itself was copyrighted. Some people have suggested that line of argument in this case, but if TI really wanted to pursue this in court, they'd have to register the signing key with the copyright office (you have to do this prior to starting litigation). I'd really like to see them try to register a small number!

    --
    "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
  25. I noted this recently in another thread. by maillemaker · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The "legal list of allowable calculators" is precisely why the scientific calculator development is pretty much stagnant. I have an HP50G but it is basically a repackaged HP48 with a marginally better screen. But even the 48G was not allowed in the last math class I took that allowed calculators.

    I started using an HP28S in college back in 1988. Back then, many teachers did not know what the calculators were capable of. Of course, I had one professor who did, and in fact LOVED them, and so made the tests that much harder to be used in conjunction with said devices.

    Anyway my point is the calculator manufacturers are definitely in a pickle. They can't make their calculators too good, or their primary market - college students - can't use them.

    If people can hack the OS of "approved" calculators, you can, as you note, basically sneak in anything in what appears to be a normal calculator.

    --
    A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
  26. Re:There is a lot of money at stake. by zach_the_lizard · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You can code equations to your heart's content for the calculators, but IIRC the SAT people walk around and force you to clear the memory before the exam. The same rules probably apply to other tests, too. Of course, nothing is preventing someone from coding an app that makes it just look like it cleared the memory, because the test proctors make only a cursory inspection.

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    SSC
  27. Re:Perfectly valid by Arker · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yes, Liberty is a very slippery slope. This is why the enemies of liberty try to avoid any compromise with it.

    --
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
  28. Here are da Keyz by ealbers · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here are the three keys: TI-83 (Plus): n=82EF4009ED7CAC2A5EE12B5F8E8AD9A0 AB9CC9F4F3E44B7E8BF2D57A2F2BEACE 83424E1CFF0D2A5A7E2E53CB926D61F3 47DFAA4B35B205B5881CEB40B328E58F p=B709D3A0CD2FEC08EAFCCF540D8A100BB38E5E091D646ADB7B14D021096FFCD q=B7207BD184E0B5A0B89832AA68849B29EDFB03FBA2E8917B176504F08A96246CB d=4D0534BA8BB2BFA0740BFB6562E843C7 EC7A58AE351CE11D43438CA239DD9927 6CD125FEBAEE5D2696579FA3A3958FF4FC54C685EAA91723BC8888F292947BA1 e=11 TI-84 (Plus): prp77 factor: 67070508990537181066342707695603050521324524613874331879259881495826493920589 prp78 factor: 186923771200711284770368041572205320486346816476524340240220962467860568859381 n=EF5FEF0B0AB6E22731C17539658B2E91E53A59BF8E00FCC81D05758F26C1791CD35AF6101B1E35 43AC3E78FD8BB8F37FC8FE85601C502EABC9132CEAD4711CB1 p=94489014C63CC9E1E1ADB192DBBDD1F78F90A630DA9C86EFC4CBCA44E5B4D54D q=19D431AF2794229620B884E3750D622D1C74F2E4569DC15486FC8D5A3BCDFE2F5 d=2A3E1B2010F318D9BD7C7E19300980B055A0E2A9554B77E7142E23CDF7C7CA13C233A3D462FDFC 968B1F9CEAF2AC2CF305147992AD9E834192ACEBB517DB9941 e=11

  29. OH, don't forget this one by ealbers · · Score: 2, Informative

    TI - 89: prp76 factor: 2231124525637629443181963045297394875470510167130210300957267082210173784611

  30. And these! by ealbers · · Score: 2, Informative

    prp79 factor: 3226885534240147415018248397410101286362761128614350056368675111071170873486957

  31. Wow, heres the good stuff (keys) by ealbers · · Score: 2, Informative

    TI-83 (Plus): n=82EF4009ED7CAC2A5EE12B5F8E8AD9A0 AB9CC9F4F3E44B7E8BF2D57A2F2BEACE 83424E1CFF0D2A5A7E2E53CB926D61F3 47DFAA4B35B205B5881CEB40B328E58F p=B709D3A0CD2FEC08EAFCCF540D8A100BB38E5E091D646ADB7B14D021096FFCD q=B7207BD184E0B5A0B89832AA68849B29EDFB03FBA2E8917B176504F08A96246CB d=4D0534BA8BB2BFA0740BFB6562E843C7 EC7A58AE351CE11D43438CA239DD9927 6CD125FEBAEE5D2696579FA3A3958FF4FC54C685EAA91723BC8888F292947BA1 e=11

  32. Re:There is a lot of money at stake. by Toonol · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Bye-bye sales for that line of calculators.

    GOOD!

    TI calculators are $5 of hardware sold for $100 because of preferential (bought and paid for) treatment given by schools. They follow the same disgusting model that textbook publishers use; it hurts students, and it's kept calculator tech advancement practically stagnant.

  33. Re:Perfectly valid by bsDaemon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If you install Linux on your PC when it came with Windows, thus giving yourself a full development environment, when the PC itself didn't come with that software capability in the first place, then that's the same according to your rebuttal.

    Installing a new OS on your TI or on your computer is more like buying the DirectTV dish then re-purposing it as part of some amateur radio operation, not unencrypting channels in DTV's data stream.

  34. Re:Why require calculator on exam? by pjt33 · · Score: 2, Informative

    When I took statistics exams 10 years ago we had a choice of using the exam board's printed tables or our calculators for values of the normal, Student t and chi-squared distributions. It's tricky. In "real life" you're going to use the calculator: it's easier than the table and gives more significant figures. On the other hand, if you used the full accuracy of the value provided by the calculator and then rounded to the specified number of significant figures at the end then sometimes you would differ by 1 ulp from the figure obtained with the less precise value in the tables (which was also the figure specified in the marking scheme, at least for the mock exams we took).

  35. Ahem! by pandrijeczko · · Score: 3, Insightful

    in the best tradition of American innovation.

    Sir Frank Whittle (British) and Dr. Hans Von Ohain (German) - indepently invented the jet engine.
    Sir Alexander Fleming (Scottish - discovered penicillin.
    Leonardo da Vinci (Italian) - inventor, artist, mathematician, painter, etc. etc. ... ...
    etc.

    I fully support what the EFF do but innovation is not simply limited to America - can I suggest in future they use the adjective "human", rather than "American", in similar statements? Otherwise, they're just affirming the stereotype that many of we non-US residents have, namely that Americans have no interest in the world outside their own shores.
     

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    Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
  36. The public key subject of copyright??? by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "The public key itself - the modulus - might be subject to copyright. "

    If it is a *public* key it is meant to be copied.

    In any case a key is just a number, how the heck can you copyright a single number in isolation?

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.