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Device Protects Day Traders From Emotional Trading

Philips Electronics, a Netherlands-based company, has come up with a device designed to protect day traders from emotionally based trading decisions. The Rationalizer measures your galvanic skin response and lets you know when you are under stress. An online trader can then take a "time-out, wind down and re-consider their actions," according to the company. This may have come too late for us, but at least future generations won't have to live through the horror of angry day trading.

45 of 260 comments (clear)

  1. This is a great change by royallthefourth · · Score: 4, Funny

    Now all day traders will be making rational, informed decisions instead.

  2. One should not be mandator for posting here by Finallyjoined!!! · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If every /. poster had to use one, life would be much duller :-)

    --
    If I had an Ass, I'd call it Fanny Bottom, then I could slap my Ass; Fanny Bottom, on the Arse.
  3. I've known a lot of day traders. . . by Slicebo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    . . . and trust me, giving them a device that will tell them when they are stressed is about as useful as taping a stethoscope to their chest so they can check whether their heart is beating.

    Day traders are *always* stressed. Always.

    1. Re:I've known a lot of day traders. . . by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not only that, but the first time a trader can't make a trade because the device tells them to chill out, that sucker is flying through a window.

      --

      "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    2. Re:I've known a lot of day traders. . . by tverbeek · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah, if they're behaving irrationally, expecting them to respond rationally to a device telling them that seems... optimistic. "Calm down!? Don't f*^&ing tell me to calm down!"

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    3. Re:I've known a lot of day traders. . . by esmrg · · Score: 2, Funny

      that sucker is flying through a window.

      The device or the trader?

    4. Re:I've known a lot of day traders. . . by khallow · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not only that, but the first time a trader can't make a trade because the device tells them to chill out, that sucker is flying through a window.

      First thing I thought of as well. When money is on the line, they'll find some way around the device. The thing to keep in mind here is that keeping a trader from making trades is the absolutely worst thing this device can do. And it doesn't protect from the worst mistakes: fat finger trades (where the trader makes some grossly expensive typo, though I suppose excessive stress makes this sort of error more likely, it can happen at any time) and double down trading (where the trader is certain they're right and keeps betting the wrong way, "The market can remain wrong longer than you can remain solvent.").

  4. Hell, yeah, I was under stress! by natehoy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I was stressed out about how I needed to make this trade RFN so I could retire to a small island nation - MY OWN!

    Stupid galvanic response thingie made me wait until after the bubble burst.

    --
    "This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
  5. Obvious: by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Look Dave, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over. "

  6. Let me guess... by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2, Funny

    This is something new from Google Labs, right?

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  7. What if... by mrsquid0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I can just imagine if this is used for drivers. You get stressed by the heavy traffic, or the twit who blocks you when you try to merge, and the car suddenly pulls itself off the road and won't start again until you calm down.

    --
    Just because you are paranoid does not mean that no-one is out to get you.
  8. galvanic skin response = wheatstone bridge by smellsofbikes · · Score: 4, Informative

    Dunno why they'd have to invent something to do this: it's been known for almost 200 years. Build a Wheatstone Bridge with your body as one of the four legs of the bridge, and measure across the middle. I was building these when I was 10. Add a transistor to drive a meter and you have most of a Scientologist's E-meter. Use this as the input to an analog input channel of an Arduino and interface it via RS232 or USB to your computer and you can easily write something to automatically log you out of e-trade or whatever. I'm not really sure where the innovation is here, although Philips usually comes up with great ideas. I guess you could use a sparkfun xbee unit to make it wireless, since anything that contains the word "wireless" seems to be patentable these days, but that just makes me even more irritated.

    --
    Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    1. Re:galvanic skin response = wheatstone bridge by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Funny

      Add a transistor to drive a meter and you have most of a Scientologist's E-meter.

      I hope you have a good lawyer, cuz Tom Cruise is about to sue you ;)

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    2. Re:galvanic skin response = wheatstone bridge by smellsofbikes · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Don't like replying to my own post, but I'm still irritated and have more to rant about. A simple wheatstone bridge isn't of much use because it's an absolute measurement, and the system, if calibrated for testing people in Italy, where they're more likely to be sweaty, hot, and irritable, would have a lot of issues testing people in the Antarctic, where nobody's sweaty and probably people are generally somewhat calmer. There is an adjustment knob, traditionally, of a 1M or thereabouts pot on one of the other legs, but the user has to keep moving it to keep the meter on-scale. It *would* actually be useful to hook this thing to a microcontroller with an A/D and a D/A so that the uC could control the amplifier gain, because that way you could have the thing record your sweat record over time and do some useful adaptive prediction with it. Then *maybe* you could actually detect that the person was suddenly unusually tense and cut off trading (although maybe he's just watching porn in another browser window.) But the entire idea of sweat being a great predictor of behavior is weak. I taught my 6 year old brother how to push a so-called lie detector needle around to wherever he wanted it, and when I was briefly dating a Scientologist, I thoroughly unsettled her and her family by being able to move the meter needle from one peg of the meter to the other, back and forth, while having a nice pleasant conversation. Which is to say, once you have played with one for a little bit, it's easy to fool, and even with a uC doing monitoring and analysis of your past stress history, a couple weeks of experimentation and you could easily false-negative it when you need to and go ahead and do that unwise trade.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
  9. Another market by vekrander · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This sounds like it could be equally as useful to an online poker player (I know many). All it would take is some marketing to the poker community.

  10. Is day trading a good thing? by spun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm wondering how day trading, as an activity, benefits society. Sure, if done right, it can benefit the individual, but what use is it to the average person? It seems to promote the tragedy of the privates. That is, privately owned resources will be used unsustainably and depleted because the owner can simply take the profits and reinvest them into rapidly depleting some other resource. Communally managed resources will be used sustainably because no one person can abscond with the profits and reinvest them in some other resource depletion scheme. Day trading seems the perfect example of this. Day traders have no connection with the companies they trade in, no commitment to them, no stake in them at all.

    With other industries, one can easily see how they benefit society, yet day trading seems to provide no benefit. Maybe someone who understands the function of day trading better than I do can explain what purpose it serves besides making a few individuals rich at the expense of everyone else. Day trading seems more like gambling than responsible ownership. Doesn't it create an unacceptable moral hazard?

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    1. Re:Is day trading a good thing? by royallthefourth · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They make all their money by pushing papers around.

      They create no products and provide no services. I think that's all anyone needs to know about how capitalism supposedly rewards hard work.

    2. Re:Is day trading a good thing? by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Informative

      Day trading seems more like gambling than responsible ownership. Doesn't it create an unacceptable moral hazard?

      I don't think you understand what a moral hazard is. Moral hazard refers to the concept that people who are isolated from risk (i.e: mega-corps that get bailed out when they fuck up) won't behave as rationally as those that are fully exposed to said risk. I don't recall many (any?) day traders getting bailed out during our recent round of corporate welfare.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    3. Re:Is day trading a good thing? by ragethehotey · · Score: 4, Informative

      Google "liquidity" and you'll realize why having it is such an important thing. (and why gambling day traders provide it)

    4. Re:Is day trading a good thing? by Korin43 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think day traders probably have little power over what the industry is doing, since they don't stay investors long enough to go to board meetings or anything. What's more important are the people who buy into a company, pressure it into insane business practices for short term profits (or simply go along with short-term profit motivated plans), then cut and run and get away with it because they have no liability when the company goes bankrupt.

    5. Re:Is day trading a good thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You can think of it as short term investing. Sure, an investor produces nothing and earns money seemingly from nothing, but you're ignoring the fact that he's supplying the investee with the ability to produce a product/start a business, etc.

      Day trading's the same on a micro scale. Any consential transaction benefits all parties. So in the end it's positive.

    6. Re:Is day trading a good thing? by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Day traders can't "ruin" a company that's sound. And how can you claim that they are "isolated" from risk when they risk losing massive amounts of money on a daily basis?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    7. Re:Is day trading a good thing? by AP31R0N · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Professional traders (which i hope to be one day) are the lubrication of the gears of finance. They give companies the money to grow. The difference between traders and Joe Bob who bought a stock is financial education. If Joe knew what a pro knew, he'd do it too. Most people do not have the time or interest to seek a financial education. Which is terrible for them and the economy in general. ERISA and the baby boomers are going to fuck up the US economy in about 6 years or so*. i hope that won't happen, but there is a huge potential for disaster there.

      It's like a wave powered generator. The waves are there and aren't going away. Traders siphon some of the energy that was swishing back and forth anyway. They just keep it, instead of losing it. Imagine a field of hovering platforms rising and falling above the water. An uneducated person would stay on it until they are sniffing saltwater. A pro would have sensed the downward trend and hopped off. Being smart enough to follow the rats off the sinking ship isn't evil or selfish or greedy, it's smart.

      The company i'm trading doesn't care if i hold the stock for an hour or a year. The market doesn't either, really.

      Day traders benefit the market as a whole by making the market exist and giving it life (movement). If a stock is (wrong)valued, the day traders smell the blood and start the correction.

      i'll grant you that it's hard to see the benefit, but it's there.

      Day traders are a tiny part of the whole trading ecosystem. They just happen to be the sharks, while most people are the tuna. In a very real way, my success depends on being smarter than the sucker i'm selling to or buying from. But that's true of all business! i'm smarter (at computers) than the users i support. They don't want to be computer smart, they want to be smart at something else. So they pay me to be smarter and do things they don't want (to learn how) to do. i don't want to go to chef school but i want to eat mushroom risotto. i give money to someone smarter than me to cook it for me. The chef isn't evil and i'm not a chump (just lazy). It's an exchange of want for have. i have money, he wants money. i want nummy risotto, he has cooking skill and morel mushrooms.

      In stock trading, i HAVE a stock that's been going up. Joe heard from Jeff that $stock is going up. i forecast, based on the dojis, P/E ratios and the M for murder that this stock has run up against resistance and is about to go down. i WANT to cash out and take my girlfriend to Restaurant Nora for that risotto. Joe WANTS that stock and HAS cash. We both get what we want. The stock moves. Joe might get what he wants too.

      It's only gambling if you don't know what you're doing. The meteorologist doesn't pull a prediction out of his ass. He looks at historical trends. Good poker players don't gamble. They read your tells, calculate odds and decides the risk/reward ratio he wants. He KNOWS when to hold 'em. Yeah, there is risk involved. But a smart trader knows not to take stupid risks (or to let emotions or ego get in the way). Being someone in the know... i can make money on a stock regardless of the direction its moving.

      * When the boomers are forced to start withdrawing from their 401s there will be more sellers than buyers, stock values will tank (unless we have an awesome president between now and then).

      --
      Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
    8. Re:Is day trading a good thing? by Xugumad · · Score: 2, Funny

      > They just happen to be the sharks, while most people are the tuna.

      Which makes the hyper-scalping (sub-second round trip) automated trading platforms some sort of T-1000, right? :)

    9. Re:Is day trading a good thing? by NoOneInParticular · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Efficiency is overrated.

      No serious. Part of the reason we're in such a mess is because of over-efficient business. Business doesn't keep items in stock, they don't have spare capacity, everything is optimized so that every penny is squeezed from the business as long as everything runs as normal. The slightest hiccup will make the whole house of cards come tumbling down.

      Contrast this with nature. Overefficient predators will die out (as they deplete their source of food), and everything is set up to be adaptive, not optimized. So yes, efficiency is overrated, adaptability is better. In the long run we're dead, but hopefully not extinct.

    10. Re:Is day trading a good thing? by dkleinsc · · Score: 2, Informative

      For instance, a case reported by the NYTimes in which a firm that does something useful is essentially looted by a private equity firm, who bought up the company's stock on debt, and then promptly assigned the debt that they used to buy up the company to the company they just bought.

      Private equity firms get $750 million, Simmons Bedding Company gets bankruptcy. It makes the stuff Michael Milkin was pulling in the 1980's seem positively nice and friendly by comparison.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    11. Re:Is day trading a good thing? by Teun · · Score: 2, Funny
      No no no!

      The good ones never leave their screen.

      It's the slackers that take the time to meet up with the girls..

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
    12. Re:Is day trading a good thing? by spun · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Day traders are a tiny part of the whole trading ecosystem. They just happen to be the sharks, while most people are the tuna.

      I guess I was asking, what's in it for the tuna? Why should a tuna let itself be eaten by a shark, when the tuna is a citizen of a democracy where it can vote to outlaw sharks?

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    13. Re:Is day trading a good thing? by SleazyRidr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not a direct impact, but knowing you can later sell your shares on the stockmarket gives you more of an incentive to invest in the first place.

    14. Re:Is day trading a good thing? by Korin43 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Why should a tuna let itself be eaten by a shark

      The tuna in the example are day traders who lose money. They knew the risks when they bought stocks (unless they were lied to by one of those "OMG DAYTRADERS ARE ALL RICH" books, but that's a different problem).

      when the tuna is a citizen of a democracy where it can vote to outlaw sharks?

      This is democracy we're talking about, so presumable the crappy day traders could put a cap on the IQ of people doing trading, and also forcibly retire them after 5 years (thus outlawing "the sharks"). I don't think it would have the happy ending you're hoping for though.

      I assume your real question is "Why shouldn't I pressure the government into outlawing daytrading or the stock exchange" and the answer is that (a) everyone who risks they money by buying stocks knows that they could loose it, (b) the stock exchange benefits society by providing capital to new businesses, (c) day trading benefits the stock exchange by adding liquidity (look at the other posts for descriptions of this), and (d) it's none of your business -- even if, as some people assume, day trading is useless, it's just as useless as professional sports. People who hire professional athletes think that they are worth the millions they get paid, and the stock market as a whole seems to think that traders are worth what they are paid. Just remember, you're not their customer.

    15. Re:Is day trading a good thing? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They create no products and provide no services. I think that's all anyone needs to know about how capitalism supposedly rewards hard work.

      Oddly enough, day-trading would probably be non-existent if not for government intervention in the markets in the form of the "limited liability coroporation".

      If someone took on the legal liabilities of anything they invested in, they'd not invest without a great deal more thought.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    16. Re:Is day trading a good thing? by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I see. You think capitalism is supposed to reward hard work. Hence all those millionaire construction workers and gardeners.

      What I'm saying is that your premise is flawed. Capitalism is not supposed to reward "hard work". It's supposed to reward success, and if that seems nonsensical it's because your point and implied question are stupid - Capitalism isn't "supposed" to do anything but allow individual actors the ability to engage in consensual business.

    17. Re:Is day trading a good thing? by Hognoxious · · Score: 3, Informative

      In fancy speak, they provide liquidity. Having said that, so do lots of other people & institutions.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    18. Re:Is day trading a good thing? by Shakrai · · Score: 3, Informative

      Stock trading is meaningless for day to day operations of a company?

      Actually yes, it mostly is, unless (as I said) that company is seeking to raise more capital. The stock price has no direct bearing on how much cash the company has in it's bank accounts. It has no direct bearing on whether or not their products will succeed in the marketplace. It has no direct bearing on whether or not a tornado will level their factory.

      Being useful certainly isn't required. But being useless shouldn't be respected, should it?

      Please explain to me why day traders are "useless". As I said in another post, if nothing else they provide needed liquidity in the marketplace.

      How many people can't retire now, because the value of their 401k has dropped?

      That's their own damn fault for having so much of their nest egg in volatile investments so close to retirement. For every story you can came up with of someone who can't retire I can counter with a story of someone in his 20s, 30s or 40s who is making a killing. I'm currently up 65% on the investments that I made as the market was tanking. My 403(b) is still down, but why would I care about that? I'm not going to retire for 40 years.

      Are you saying day trading can not affect the value of people's 401k?

      Day traders and short sellers can't drive down the price of a healthy company over the medium to long term. In the short term they can have an affect but nobody (who is sane) is holding stock investments in a 401(k) for the "short" term, are they?

      It sounds as though you are claiming that all this hair trigger, instant trading has no effect outside of the parties involved, no externalities that affect individuals retirement or other accounts, or even entire economies

      No, I've claimed nothing of the sort. I've only claimed that day traders can't "kill" an otherwise healthy company. I'm still waiting for you to produce some evidence to the contrary. Am I waiting in vain?

      And yet, we've all seen lots of articles regarding automated day trading, and how it does exactly that.

      Automated trading does some stupid shit. I recall the price of an airline being driven down to almost nothing over automated trading when a false report of their bankruptcy was published. I don't think it happened that long ago either. Would it surprise you to learn that even though the airline's stock dropped 99.92% that they remained in business? This would seem to run counter to your notion that traders can "kill" an otherwise healthy company.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    19. Re:Is day trading a good thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      They provide liquidity to businesses to fund their operations and grow. When business grow, people get hired and are able to put food on their table and pay for their kid's education. That is the point of capitalism.

    20. Re:Is day trading a good thing? by dcavanaugh · · Score: 2, Informative

      "But financially, this is of no benefit to society, or the companies whose stock you're trading."

      Wrong on both counts. The existence of day traders ensures a steady volume of trades for many stocks that would be lightly traded otherwise. This means longer-term investors can get into or out of a position without excessive volatility. Although day trading can cause some minor volatility on its own, the effect is more of a smoothing action, keeping the stock price roughly aligned with investors' analysis of future earnings. As for your reference to IPOs, who would ever buy an IPO if there was no active market to sell into at some point in the future?

      As an added bonus, day traders help ensure market efficiency. Overpriced stocks get sold, underpriced stocks get bought up. Day traders help reduce the amount of time these out of balance conditions exist. Without them, stock price manipulation would be even easier than it already is.

      Even for short periods of time, somebody has to put up the money to hold all of the shares on the stock market. Consider two extreme examples: Investor A is a day trader who runs a $1M portfolio split among 50 companies with 100% turnover every day for 5 years. Investor B invests $1M in one company's IPO and lets it sit for 5 years. Which contributes more to the market cap of the stock market? They are both EQUAL, because each has $1M invested every day of the year.

      If the market worked any other way, there would be too many disincentives to investing. Nobody would do it. Where would we be then?

    21. Re:Is day trading a good thing? by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, let me add a bit more: if a large corporation dumped a lot of stock, then the price would drop as the market was flooded. Now... there's no guarantee that will happen, because of day traders -- thus keeping the price artificially inflated.

  11. Re:Prediction... by eric-x · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's not only part of the job.. I suspect that for most traders it becomes the main reason to continue trading.

  12. Does it come with black hair dye? by entrice · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Users wear a device called the EmoBracelet that senses stress and makes an accompanying lighted bowl, or EmoBowl, change color and flicker from yellow to red as emotions become more intense." Something makes me think this is being targetted towards a younger market.

  13. Re:Contribution to society? by Bootvis · · Score: 5, Informative

    Day traders create and provide liquidity.

    --
    Read, refresh, repeat.
  14. That doesn't sound useful by CrazyLion · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm a trader by profession (although not a day trader) and making emotional decisions is about the worst thing you can do. The only worse thing is NOT making a call because you happen to be excited.

    It's a learned behaviour, but a trader needs to be able to abstract away from the trade. You almost need to pretend that somebody else is doing the trade and you're just watching. I think any trader who stays in the job learns this skill eventually. The first time I traded a few million dollars of risk, I was down to few last red cells in my adrenaline stream. If I kept going that way, I'd be either an unemployed or an alcoholic (or most likely both). Instead I learned not to take it too personally. Now a large trade barely increases my pulse.

    I don't think a device can replace this behaviour. In a fast market my heart may be way up due to working on several things at once and trying to keep up with the information. I still need to make trades, I just need to stay rational. A glorified heart rate monitor won't help with this.

  15. benthalus by benthalus · · Score: 2, Funny

    Is this a quasi-legitimate use of an E-meter? I hope the Church of Scientology doesn't get wind of this, we all know how litigious they are.

  16. Thanks by tylersoze · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Thanks for the informative answers, that makes a little more sense to me now. It's amazing our economic system works at all. Of course, it also can fail spectacularly as we've all seen. I've never understood the people that think a bunch of unregulated greedy jackasses all trying to make a buck will somehow magically make a fair and sustainable society and economy.

  17. Re:Contribution to society? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sure. Day traders lose money (on average), which is then distributed to people who aren't day traders.

  18. Re:Dividends? What dividends by devonbowen · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Dividends, which is what you are talking about, have not been paid in years.

    Dividends are alive and well where I live. I haven't looked at the US market in a while but I thought it was only the tech stocks that weren't paying dividends.

    Without dividends, all that is of interest to investors is the stock price increasing, and for that to happen, the company must report increases and logarithmic growth year after year, which is unsustainable in the long or even medium term.

    Without dividends, the earnings simply stay in the company itself instead of being paid to you. They don't vanish. Look at it this way... image the company doesn't pay them to you but instead puts them in a company bank account. The price of the stock must rise because the assets on the books are now higher than last year and, as a stockholder, you own a portion of those assets. You make it sound like the earnings will cease to exist if they aren't paid as dividends. But they still do exit. They're just in the company (which you own) instead of in your bank account (which you own). And if you trust the company enough to buy their stock in the first place, then you probably aren't going to mind if they hold on to your dividends. This simplifies your taxes and allows them to use the money when opportunities arise to make the company still stronger and further increase the company value.

    Devon