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Are Software Developers Naturally Weird?

Posted by Soulskill on from the please-put-your-pants-on dept.

jammag writes "Well, c'mon, yes — let's admit it. As a veteran coder discusses as he looks at his career, software development is brimming with the offbeat, the quirky and the downright odd. As he remembers, there was the 'Software Lyrics' guy and the 'Inappropriate Phone Call' programmer, among others. Are unique types drawn to the profession, or are we 'transformed over time by our darkened working environments and exposure to computer screen radiation?'"

26 of 579 comments (clear)

  1. From what I've discovered... by dsginter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There is no "normal" - everyone seems to have something. Developers (and geeks, in general) just wear it out there on their sleeve.

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    More
    1. Re:From what I've discovered... by skirtsteak_asshat · · Score: 5, Funny

      Take a NORMAL intelligent person and put them on the unfiltered net for extended periods, I think you'll find it rubs off on you. No amount of soap, scrubbing, or red bull can get your mind clean again.

    2. Re:From what I've discovered... by icebike · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Software types are more analytical, (either as a result or as an cause of them being in their field). As such they see things that Joe Random doesn't even notice.

      When the waitress says "If you need anything else, my name is Betty" Joe Random grunts and takes a bite of his meal. Programmer dude wonders what her name is if he doesn't need any thing else.

      When the reporter says "For CNN, I'm Wolf Blitzer", programmer dude shouts at the TV demanding to know who the reporter is when he dons his lederhosen and cowboy hat and goes dancing.

      Ouch, that hurts to think about, I'll stop now.

      Computer types are so used to thinking about eventualities, undesirable consequences, dangling IF conditions, and protecting against them that they fall into doing so in personal life as well. A simple, carelessly worded question in normal conversation can render them speechless while the gears grind.

      Actions or behavior without negative consequences may lead to new discovery, and therefore need not be avoided. Being a little weird may be a calculated strategy to see if those around them are hopelessly hidebound.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    3. Re:From what I've discovered... by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 5, Interesting

      There is a "normal". Its is not however, a statistical result. Rather it is closer to a Platonic ideal, an archetypical state of being that all aspire to, yet few if any achieve. Intelligent, sophisticated, gregarious, athletic, witty, educated, admired, adventurous, wise, inspirational, a pillar of society; in short everything the Modern Major General should be.

      When people say "normal", what they really mean is "ideal". "Why can't I/you be more normal?!", really means "Why can't I/you be closer to perfection!!". The concepts of individuality and uniqueness is for most people, platitudes. In reality, they strive for unreasonable goals and live in perpetual disappointment with their own and others "shortcomings".

      Our industrial society, saturated as it is with millions of identical items, widgets and products, cannot really accept habits or traits that fall outside the norm. Witness the rise of "disorders" like Aspergers or ADHD; habits and attitudes which cannot be accepted as a normal part of the human condition, and which must be medicated to bring them closer to the ideal or "normal". If you do not conform to the tolerances specified by what is seen on television, cinema or in the New Yorker magazine, you are a defective widget and must be either corrected or replaced.

      Some programmers have traits or habits not usually seen in the general populace. Invariably you will find that the problem is rarely these traits in and of themselves, but rather the discomfort of others who when faced with such deviations from the norm actually become offended and will seek redress. For a long time, our society catered to this outrage and imposed conformity towards the contemporary ideal. Happily we've stopped doing this, and we're all better off because of it. However, there remain many who can become visibly distressed whenever the world does not agree with their own conceptions. Often they will fight to change the world rather than change their minds.

      The truth is we are all individuals. And the real truth is that this is more than just a platitude.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    4. Re:From what I've discovered... by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think it has more to do with the way a geek's brain works. I'll give an example, true story-

      So I'm doing a little hired gun work for a friend who needed someone to set up a bunch of systems at this decently sized office. Now before I even get to his office i hear all these 'stories" about how Jimmy is 'weird" and 'rude' and how they needed him because he is a wiz at code so don't piss him off. Me, I've played gigs behind chicken wire and dodged gunfire before, so don't nothing phase me. A couple of days later some of them in that section of the office are stopping me asking "How do you do it? We can hear you two just a laughing and joking, he is NEVER like that with us!"

      I said "You just got to know how guys like him work, hell I've BEEN a guy like him. When a pro basketball player is shooting free throws and hitting nothing but net, would you disturb him? When he gets that blank look on his face the answer to a problem is popping in his head, when he goes flying off it isn't to be rude, it is because if he doesn't put it down RIGHT NOW he will lose it, maybe forever. The reason I get along fine with him is when I see that blank look come over him I just shut up and let him get into the zone. Do that and all is gravy."

      So this whole thing over the guy being "weird" or "rude" was just that he had anywhere from 3-12 problems at a time floating around his brain and when the answer would come to him he would have to rush to get it all down while it was fresh. By the time I left everybody got along fine with him, because when they saw that "blank look" they would just stop talking and pick back up next time they saw him. It wasn't like he was TRYING to be rude or act like an ass, it was just his head was "too full" and he needed to get stuff out when he fell into the zone. Sometimes you just have to let the guy work, you know?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    5. Re:From what I've discovered... by noidentity · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, I've gotten to the level know when someone asks me the 'wrong' question I now answer "You're not asking me the right question". I used to answer it.

      I do this out of habit now when someone asks me a negated question:

      Someone: "Are you not going?"
      Me: "Correct"

      I used to answer "Yes, I'm not going", but "correct" is a more lazy way now. Answering just "yes" when I'm not going just confuses them, even though they are to blame for asking the negated question in the first place. I mean, it's not too hard to grasp. If the answer to "Are you going?" is "no", then clearly the answer to "Are you not going?" is "yes".

    6. Re:From what I've discovered... by RichardJenkins · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think that's very naive approach to verbal communication often adopted by programmers.

      If a person "says" something, then they are using spoken words to convey a particular meaning. In most contexts, using the words "Are you not going" conveys that the speaker does not know for certain if the addressed person is going (though the speaker suspects the addressed is not going - against earlier expectations), and requests that the addressed confirms that they are not going by responding in the negative or belays their suspicions by replying some other way. I suspect this phrase has become prevalent because it is extremely economical - almost universally understood and can convey what I typed in a couple lines in less than a second. Note that it conveys more information than a mere request for the addressed to make their position on a subject clear.

      Most native English speakers are capable of using contextual clues to understand all this intuitively, and will not be consciously aware absurdity that arises when the words are parsed literally. Some people need to resort to intellectually determining the meaning of phrases like this.

      Where I say 'programmers' it may be more appropriate to say 'people who lie further to the autistic side of the autism spectrum than average'

    7. Re:From what I've discovered... by Nerdfest · · Score: 5, Funny

      Dude, you're going to get your eggs with saliva.

    8. Re:From what I've discovered... by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Most people operate in an environment where other peoples opinions are more important than the facts. So, they make an effort to fit in and not telegraph things that might be controversial. People in IT, engineering, etc... they operate in an environment where the facts are everything, and the more controversial a fact, the more reward to the person who establishes it.

      It's easy to fit in, and be normal. You spend a bit of money on clothes, you spend a bit of time learning about things that normal people care about, like sports and dancing, you shut up about things that require specialization in the field to understand, and you're done. Other people aren't psychic... they don't see into your weird little brain. If you spend a little time caring to fit in, you do.

      When I turned 30, for a number of personal reasons, I actually made the effort for the first time in my life, and spent years afterwards wondering why I had been unwilling to do so for so long when the effort required was so small and the social rewards were so great. I chalk it up to naivety.

      Software developers seem weird because they don't care to seem normal, they overestimate the effort required, and they underestimate the rewards. It's not that most people are genuinely normal and weirdos have to wear camouflage to fake it. It's that most people wear camouflage, and weirdos refuse to do so.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    9. Re:From what I've discovered... by cain · · Score: 5, Funny

      The truth is we are all individuals.

      I'm not.

    10. Re:From what I've discovered... by Swampash · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Software types are more analytical, (either as a result or as an cause of them being in their field). As such they see things that Joe Random doesn't even notice.

      When the waitress says "If you need anything else, my name is Betty" Joe Random grunts and takes a bite of his meal. Programmer dude wonders what her name is if he doesn't need any thing else.

      What you are describing is JOE RANDOM seeing things that the programmer doesn't even notice.

      When the waitress says "If you need anything else, my name is Betty" Joe Random instantly knows that what she means is "if you need anything else and you can't immediately find me, just tell any other restaurant employee what you want and that you are being looked after by Betty. I value the opportunity to provide personal service to you because I'm a waitress and much of my take-home pay is in tips from happy customers". Joe Random understands this because he understands people, has eaten in restaurants before, has tipped waitresses before, and he understands the unwritten rules of communication in a wide range of social situations, including this one.

      Programmer dude has problems understanding why people don't explain themselves clearly, when in fact the problem is that he has no sense of communication in a social context. Joe Random and Betty just exchanged a massive amount of information, referring to customs, past experiences, the hierarchy of the restaurant staff, Betty's personal situation, possible future events, and Joe Random's understanding with nothing more than one verbal sentence from Betty and a grunt from Joe Random.

      Programmer dude noticed none of this.

    11. Re:From what I've discovered... by Imrik · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Or the programmer understood the same things that Joe Random did but also amused himself by parsing the grammar literally.

    12. Re:From what I've discovered... by Ifandbut · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not that most people are genuinely normal and weirdos have to wear camouflage to fake it. It's that most people wear camouflage, and weirdos refuse to do so.

      Wouldn't life be better if we all did not wear camouflage?

    13. Re:From what I've discovered... by Chrisje · · Score: 5, Insightful

      All of you people are delusional. I have weird friends in tech, definitely, but then I have to admit most of my friends are in tech, and this is a tech forum. All of this "I am a bigger geek than you" is a pissing contest without any merit.

      To illustrate this, I had a girlfriend once. Lived together with her for three years. She was a delightful woman whom I met in her dad's little Classical Music and Jazz CD store. She was completely non-technical and functioned relatively normally in most settings, but by god was she a geek. A classical music geek with a penchant for literature and some other culturally tinged stuff. Spoke Czech, Swedish and English, was highly intelligent and had a shitty job for a while. Now she works at a law firm that deals with patents and patent law (Patentbyrå), as an assistant to patent lawyers. She was so goddamn geeky at heart she would put most of us on /. to shame. It's just a kind of weirdness and geekiness most of "us" here on /. won't recognize if it kicked us in the arse, that is.

      Maybe your average software developer can do magic under the hood, but he's not motivated to. Maybe (s)he can do magic under the hood in bed, in a kitchen, on a squash court, with a chemistry lab or with a bass, but you'll never know it. On the other hand, one of the most common beliefs amongst humans is that one is different or not normal. Superior, even.

      This planet is filled with weird fuckers. The trick is figuring out what's weird about whom.

  2. Less pressure to conform? by noidentity · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm thinking that different professions have different levels of social pressure to conform to a certain way of behaving and appearing, and the coder profession has less of this pressure, perhaps because good programmers have to constantly question assumptions and think outside the box to come up with good designs. But hell if I know or care.

  3. Talk about slow news day by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Here's a tip: everybody loves to think they're unique and "weird." The most conventional, boring, person you know is going to describe how wacky their party was if you ask.

    In reality, there's no such thing as "weird" because there's no such thing as "normal." If you encounter somebody you think embodies "normal", well, you just don't know them well-enough. (I bet a lot of people thought Tom Cruise was normal before he started jumping on Oprah's couch.)

    --
    Comment of the year
  4. No, there are not by ZouPrime · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Strange, weird and unique peoples work in every sphere of society. You only think coders are special because you happen to hang out with coders and not, say, accountants. If you were hanging out with accountants, you would find accountants a weird and diverse bunch too, but instead you have a stereotypical view of how accountants act, just like the rest of the population have a stereotypical view of coders.

  5. Re:Asperger's syndrome. by NoYob · · Score: 5, Funny

    People with Asperger's syndrome - and left-handed people - make the best programmers. Ergo, weird comes with the terratory. I prefer "interesting". I'm "interesting"...and programming has kept me earning top dollar for 35 years.

    I find that women with big tits make the best programmers and I have as much evidence as you do that proves me right.

    --
    It's NOT me! It's the meds! I'm on 1000mg of Fukitol.
  6. Re:Asperger's syndrome. by Hal_Porter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    terratory

    Sigh. Whenever we have these "we only seem weird to you cretinous neurotypicals because we're geniuses" circle jerks the sloppy spelling and grammar really starts to grate.

    And actually it's completely back to front. We socially lazy people are good at programming because we have lots and lots of free time that the regular folks spend being sociable.

    --
    echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  7. What? by Yvan256 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Are Software Developers Naturally Weird?

    What do you mean? African or european developers?

  8. Re:Asperger's syndrome. by JohnFen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We socially lazy people are good at programming because we have lots and lots of free time that the regular folks spend being sociable.

    I think this is the largest truth of it. Why are we good at things technological? Because we're so interested in it that we've spent an enormous amount of time and effort on it. Time and effort that had to come at the expense of neglecting other activities.

    Also, we tend to be a bit elitist in attitude and relish all things that set us apart. So we probably think we're weirder than we really are.

    Also also, people are just weird. I've never known a normal person in my entire life.

  9. viewpoint by ei4anb · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Weird" is an irregular adjective that varies with the pronoun. An example illustrates best:
    I am interesting
    You are eccentric
    He is weird

  10. Yes. Computers are unnatural. by Admiral+Burrito · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Yes. Computing is warping our minds.

    Computers are just so damn logical, working with them is completely removed from normal everyday life. It's well known that people anthropomorphize computers in order to deal with them in our own frame of reference, but conversely we also mentally shift our thinking into a logical form which we aren't evolved to deal with, so that we can work effectively with computers. The more closely you work with computers, the more this will affect you.

    I don't think this is a new thing though. Mathematicians and people working in hard sciences have certainly faced the same sort of thing. For example, many early scientists (eg. Galileo) have faced persecution because they have found a mode of thinking that "normal" people have found objectionable.

    It'll only get worse as technology progresses.

  11. Developers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I don't have much respect for developers.

    I am a simple laborer who couldn't afford higher education, but I have my geeky things, specially related to videogame design.
    One day, I reunited enough will to combine my work with making a game of my own. It's still in early alpha but it's doing alright.
    Thing is...knowing I have no full education background, I dealed with C and OpenGL and their quirky things (pathetic string support, stupid color handling requiring to learn GLSL to do something worthy, respectively), all by myself. This is not specially impressive, but I didn't do by choice. I had to learn the same way with art/pixel art/animation and sound/music as well as general technique to achieve effects. It wasn't difficult to learn to do the media, but the code is not as straightforward. So I tried looking for help around in order to do some specific things that were hard.

    Every single programming question I deployed on the net was received with an elitist disregard, sending me to read tons of papers and stuff I don't really have an use for, specially because even if I try I can't understand it. They assume you have high education in MIT and you had to start from mainframes like they did or something. This is specially true on the IRC channel #opengl, where everyone seems to be too elite to deal with n00bs and giving incredibly obfuscated replies generally being more of a "don't bother me you fucking ignorant n00b".

    Unfortunately I don't know anyone else who codes around me (this country is not specially literate on IT), since most of my people are laborers like me who'd rather watch TV and get drunk instead of venturing into a coding project. And I can't blame them because unless you reinvent the wheel infinitely you are doomed to be inferior to the top dogs there. They limit knowledge sharing with their arrogant and "I am better than you" attitude, and it's sickening.

    There would be far more indie games and open stuff if they weren't so stubbornly elitist and shared that knowledge because it's going to die when they do otherwise.

    1. Re:Developers... by andre_pl · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Every single programming question I deployed on the net was received with an elitist disregard, sending me to read tons of papers and stuff I don't really have an use for, specially because even if I try I can't understand it. They assume you have high education in MIT and you had to start from mainframes like they did or something.

      Game programming is a very difficult field, are you expecting these people to just write code for you? sometimes you really do need to understand the fundamentals in order to be able to write the code, If people are giving you links to tons of papers to help solve your problem then I would argue that they are being helpful, its not their fault that you "don't really have an use for" it, or that you don't understand why the background information is important. it sounds to me like you think programming is as easy as "give me teh codez" and then pasting it all together, which may be true for a subset of simple problems, but when developing your own game, its simply not that easy, and you really do need to study and read, a LOT. Even if your game is going to be really similar to some other game out there, you can guarantee that the code is very very different, and nobody can just throw you some code to solve your problems, you need to study and read and understand, and THEN you can write the code yourself... if you need to ask questions in order to create your game, then you don't have enough background knowledge and you really do need to read the materials they're giving you... EVERY programming problem can be solved with enough reading and understanding of the works of the giants whose shoulders you stand on, and nobody will have a more appropriate solution to your problem than you, you just need to find that solution yourself.

  12. Re:"Right" and "Wrong" questions. by NoOneInParticular · · Score: 5, Funny
    I know this one differently, and with a different pun:

    A man was flying in a balloon, and lost his way. Luckily, on a hill, he spotted a guy that he could steer to. He asked the guy: "Where am I>". The guy answered: "You are in a balloon". "Oh", said the balloon guy, "you must be a software developer". "Why", asked the guy on the hill. "Well", said the balloon guy, "your answer is factually correct, but completely useless". "Oh", said the guy on the hill, "then you must be a manager". "Why" asked the guy in the balloon. "Simple", said the guy on the hill: "you don't know where you are, you don't know where you are going, and suddenly it is all my fault!"