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Caves of the Moon

jeno passes along this excerpt from New Scientist: "A deep hole on the moon that could open into a vast underground tunnel has been found for the first time. The discovery strengthens evidence for subsurface, lava-carved channels that could shield future human colonists from space radiation and other hazards. ... The hole measures 65 meters across, and based on images taken at a variety of sun angles, the hole is thought to extend down at least 80 meters. It sits in the middle of a rille, suggesting the hole leads into a lava tube as wide as 370 meters across."

16 of 172 comments (clear)

  1. Before you get exited about gaping moon holes... by Rip+Dick · · Score: 5, Funny

    The moon is a harsh mistress...

  2. Beware of the Cave Dwellers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    3.5 billion years into existence and we've finally hit the first plot point.

  3. Just to get it out of the way ... by Nerdfest · · Score: 3, Funny

    That's no moon! It's a space station.

    That hole is probably where it fires its main weapon from.

  4. Obviously... by sabernet · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is R. Daneel Olivaw's hideout

    1. Re:Obviously... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'm on ur moon, controlin ur destiny

  5. Re:Liquid Hot MAG-MA! by Locke2005 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Given the moon's lesser gravity, you should be able to jump right over the lava. That's right folks, this going to be one great big real-life Mario Brothers game!

    --
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  6. Obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    The moon isn't like a truck - it's a series of tubes.

  7. So then, now we know by countertrolling · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The moon is made out of Swiss cheese...

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    For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
  8. Re:Just one question... by KDR_11k · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sure but the same could happen to your home. Events of that type are pretty rare and hell, if something can smash through solid rock it'll probably smash through the ceiling of your surface moonbase too.

    --
    Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  9. Ice by mbone · · Score: 5, Informative

    These are almost certainly "sinkholes" into lava tubes, where lava runs out the center of a partially frozen lava flow. (Apollo 15 showed pretty clearly that at least the Hadley Rill was a collapsed lava tube.) There are lava tubes you can visit on the big island of Hawaii.

    The interesting thing to me about this is that the interior of these tubes, being far from the Sun and in a vacuum, might easily contain an appreciable amount of water ice, for the same reason that the lunar poles might, but with a much more convenient distribution across the Moon's surface.

    Besides, wouldn't it be cool to explore these 3 billion year old caves?

  10. Mapping Lunar Caves by sanman2 · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Seriously though - I wonder what would be the best kind of sensors/instrumentation to map underground caves and tunnels on the Moon from orbit? Isn't there supposed to be something called "cavern sensing radar" or "ground penetrating radar" that can do this stuff? If so, then how come it hasn't been done yet? Surely we're not just going to rely on finding these choice living locations by just luckily spotting some hole in the ground?

    If Man is going to return to the Moon and make a permanent base there, then it might as well be done in a cave, which is much more naturally sheltered from harmful cosmic rays and meteors, as compared to living in some inflatable habitat on the surface. Heck, that's why our cavemen ancestors liked caves to begin with - because they were uniquely sheltering environments. Shouldn't there be some kind of effort to map out the lunar underground to reveal where the best locations might be? As they say in real estate - it's location, location, location!

    1. Re:Mapping Lunar Caves by mbone · · Score: 3, Informative

      Very low frequency radar could do this, such as the SHARAD radar used to map the subsurface water ice on Mars.

      This will not be as easy as it might seem - SHARAD uses 15-25 MHz radar, or wavelengths from 1-3 meters. A 10 meter diameter tunnel (a fairly large lava tube) would only be a few wavelengths across, and thus would be hard to see.

      Apollo 17 orbited a 60 meter wavelength radar system, but I don't think that this had either the surface coverage or the resolution to realistically see lava tubes.

      With this finding, I expect some nation will find the money to orbit a suitable radar around the moon to hunt for more tubes.

  11. Re:Just one question... by mbone · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This lava flow comes from the late heavy bombardment and so the lava tube is well over 3 billion years old. Yes, the roof might fall in, but (given that there is no erosion, and no ground water dissolving the rocks) if it hasn't collapsed in 3+ billion years, the odds are in your favor.

    Now, that doesn't mean that these tubes are necessarily stable, and you would certainly want to be cautious on the first visit, and provide a roof to protect against cave-ins caused by human activity, but many of the lava tubes on Earth are quite stable, and similar tubes on the Moon would be great places to set up shop.

  12. Re:Access point to the hyperlogos by mpe · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Sorry I can't find a better link, but you don't really need a lava tube for settlement, it just makes it cheaper and easier. You're still going to need an inflatable habitat

    The obvious problem with an inflatable habitat is that anything the size of dust is going to make at least one hole in it. Patching is likely to take up quite a bit of someone's time.

    or similar (honestly, what else makes sense?) to sit in the tube.

    Install two bulkheads some distance apart and pressurize the space in between to 75 kPa.

  13. Re:Lava, on The Moon, really? by mbone · · Score: 3, Informative

    The Moon has highlands and Mares. The highlands are old (saturated by craters at all scales) and mostly made of a type of granite, while the Mare are relatively younger (not saturated by craters at the km scale) and made of basalt lava. This basalt lava is mostly thought to have come from the late heavy bombardment - a period of massive collisions on the Moon about 3.9 billion years ago which is now hypothesized to be from a disruption of the asteroid belt from the orbital migration of the outer planets.

  14. Re:Access point to the hyperlogos by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 3, Informative

    The obvious problem with an inflatable habitat is that anything the size of dust is going to make at least one hole in it.

    This isn't a kid's balloon. As I recall, the skin is about six inches thick, and made of kevlar.

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