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A Tale of Two Windows 7s
theodp writes "It was the best of operating systems, it was the worst of operating systems. When it comes to the merits of Windows 7, it looks like Slate's Farhad Manjoo and PC Magazine's John Dvorak are going to have to agree to disagree. Manjoo gives Windows 7 a big thumbs-up (a sincere one, unlike Linus!), calling it a 'crowning achievement,' while Dvorak is less than impressed, saying, 'Win 7 is really just a Vista martini. The operating system may have two olives instead of one this time out, but it's still made with the same cheap Microsoft vodka.' So, for those of you who've had a chance to check things out, are things really different this time?"
Multiple readers have also pointed out that there have been problems with the download and installation of Windows 7 upgrades obtained through the student discount offer, which Microsoft has confirmed.
And if anyone had a job, they could all buy new computers. Oops. Economic timing at odds with market synergies. What to do?
We'll see how successful this launch is in 5 years. I'm sure they'll fake the numbers in the short term, even if no one is buying.
--
Toro
It was the best of operating systems
Says who? I have yet to see a single human, that is not payed by Microsoft, say something that is even close to that.
It suggest, that you are also payed.
Also, the rhetoric device of the two sides, extrapolating a contrast where none is, is such an old hat, that you must be a real newbie in the business of viral marketing, to still use it.
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
Can't be done by you. Can be done by my 72 yr old mother and my 5 yr old daughter. Which is not that strange as all it takes is a click on the 'monitor settings' menu entry followed by a selection of the desired resolution and a click on 'OK'. This works from every resolution to every resolution.
Your seeming inability to accomplish such a simple task is somewhat baffling. Are you trying to do it the same way as you are used to in Windows? Remember, just because it has a mouse it does not mean it is Windows.
--frank[at]unternet.org
System > Preferences > Screen Resolution
Pick 640x480. Click Apply. Pick whatever you want to go back to. Click Apply.
I went to the new Microsoft store in Scottsdale and had a demo of Windows 7. The demonstrator was having a hard time covering up the fact it kept stalling and was even harder to find or get to anything than in Vista. When asked what the improvements were over Vista all he could do was point to some DVD editing app, show how you could shake windows to hide them, and to point out a new shortcut to a Microsoft internet sales portal. So basically nothing new in the OS itself other than a toy application and an internet shortcut designed to make you pay more to Microsoft.
The fundamental problem is that each new version of Windows keeps building more and more layers of 'features' and artificial views that just get in the way, and Windows 7 is no different. Its now at the point where you haven't got a clue where your files actually are on the disk any more or whats going on with the system any more. Instead of enabling users, they are treating them more and more like morons to be forced down a single path. With Windows 7 If your lifestyle, workflow, and file organisation preferences are in any way different to Microsoft's view of how you should live, act, and think, the system punishes you by being awkward and useless until you change your lifestyle to suit it.
Honestly, the trip to the Microsoft store to check out Windows 7 was the last chance I was giving Microsoft after having already wasted serious money on Vista. My options were to upgrade to Windows 7 or finally say goodbye to Microsoft forever. On the strength of what I saw at the Microsoft store I uninstalled Vista and have now moved entirely over to Ubuntu Linux as my main OS. I'm very happy and haven't looked back since.
(Change an Ubuntu screen to 640x480, and then try to change it back, without using secret hidden commands. Can't be done.)
It not only can be done, but you actually do it just about the same way as with Mac or Windows. Just go to the menu on the toolbar.
Look under System => Preferences => Screen Resolution
How is that harder than doing the same thing in Mac or Windows?
That's what Linux needs to become if it wants to be a universal replacement desktop, instead of just an isolated tool for technicians.
Then get to work.
Linux is your operating system too. Why not start a project to build a desktop that works the way you want it? You don't have to be a developer. If you have ideas compelling enough, you can probably rope in a few coders to knock out a prototype and attract some interest.
What would you start with?
[-- Trust the Monkey --]
Actually providing information about those BSOD will not result in the end of the universe.
System - Preferences - Screen resolution
This enabled you to change the screen resolution. On my system, it has several options, one of which is 640x480. I can change to and from it with the same amount of effort that Windows requires.
Or until you can get some geek to reveal the secret ALT-CNTL-X-NUM-+ whatever key combo. Like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-L-0s-7-Z0 - QUOTE: "Linux works for you, because with youses guys computers, YOU work for the computers, and, and, and....."
Alt-drag is a standard on Gnome for moving a window. You can drag it by any part of the window, just by holding the Alt key as you drag - this allows you to move the title bar fully off screen, or move off-screen buttons onto the screen. You don't have to drag it by the title bar as in Windows (although you can do it this way also). So what's this alt-cntl-x-num-whatever key combo you're talking about?
Seems to me if the average user gets stuck in 640x480, and can't out, it's the computer that has the control not the user. Not consumer-friendly.
Even noobs on Linux generally know about the alt-drag function, or at least they know how to navigate a help system and find out about it. Hint for Ubuntu: start the help browser, click on "New to Ubuntu", then "Introduction to the desktop"; the alt-drag feature is in the section on manipulating windows. Here's what it says about moving a window, after mentioning the titlebar-drag method:
You can also choose Move from the Window Menu, or press Alt+F7, and then either move the mouse or press the keyboard arrow keys to move the window.
You can also press-and-hold Alt and drag any part of the window.
Was that hard? I suppose it's inevitable that some who have been conditioned by too many years of MS Windows without running any other OS may not even conceive that there could be anything other than the "Windows way", and don't even bother looking in the help system. If that's what you mean by "average user", then they are doomed to use Windows forever, as they are unlikely to adapt to anything else...
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
So... How did you change the resolution to 640x480
He went into the display settings, selected 640x480 and pressed, ok.
If so then you must presumably be able to change the resolution again using those same commands and you don't have a problem.
When its 640x480 and you go into that display settings dialog, you can select 1280x1024, but you can't press OK. So no, the same sequence of actions doesn't work. Because the dialog box is too big for 640x480.
Now if you know arcane keyboard shortcuts you can use them to move the window to reveal the offscreen button, but most people don't know that. If you have 2nd computer runnign the same version running right beside it, you can see how many tab presses it takes to get to the 'ok' button and then mirror that on the other unit, but most people don't have that luxury.
I don't have a machine running Ubuntu to hand to try.
This is why you probably should have kept your mouth shut.
If you're too stupid and lazy to learn anything, then you're too stupid to use Linux. Your whole rant basically boils down to "Linux is too hard for me, because it's not Windows."
It's no big secret, and it's been mentioned here several times already, that holding down the alt key lets you click and move the window under the mouse cursor. How cryptic! How is the average moron like you supposed to figure out such a cryptic, single key shortcut? If you had bothered to RTFM before going around fucking with settings, you would never have had the problem.
Oh, and let me guess... you just inherently knew, from birth, how to use the Display control panel in Windows? The fact that you can hit the enter key and it will act as if you clicked apply, is like breathing, and you didn't even have to learn it. Pressing one key in Windows: super easy. Pressing one key in Linux: super cryptic.
Your whole comparison breaks down anyway, because the "average consumer" won't know they can use the enter key to fix their problem on windows.
Just use Windows, troll.
Clearly, Windows 7 is for those who don't know any other OS. It might do the job from keeping the clueless from looking for the alternative, which is Microsoft's major goal now. But for those of us who have already switched there is no reason to even look at this OS. The fundamental flaws won't go away. Ever.
Now, even if you don't think about the price which is IMO ridiculously high... There is no LiveCD's for me to test my hardware: some of it isn't officially supported and the need to re-partition my HDD (and the need to repair GRUB afterwards) just to see how it works and whether it works at all... It's just too much hassle. Neither can I install the OS on an USB stick. Hell, I boot Linux from an ExpressCard SSD right now, overall speed increase is astronomical, but Win7 won't even install there. On top of this, I have to pay for a copy in order to test (yeah, I have missed the "free" RC1, now what?).
Software is still has to be installed one-by-one and you either have to upgrade all the pieces one-by-one too or deal with dozens of independent updaters. Not to mention the dire need for extra protection resulting in more software one has to install manually.
As for usability (something that could be fixed) -- where the hell are my goddamn virtual desktops?! Text copy on select so I can paste with a middle mouse button?
Last but not least -- Alt-dragging/resizing a window. A killer feature if you are using a touchpad (which I am). It's not there.
No, you won't return to Windows land because of 7 if you're using something else.
right-alt+click is pretty fucking easy, whiner
How long before your dumbass litany gets modded troll: holding alt and moving the windows around, it's just as easy as in Doze if you're not too stupidly set in your ways. PEBKAC.
Why is this marked flamebait? It seems like parent is trying to determine the issue GP experienced. Only way to solve it is if people can see what's causing the issue.
His message is propaganda! If you know that this Farhad Manjoo has a history of flacking for Microsoft, it shows that his viewpoint is NOT objective. If Steve Jobs tells you that Apple makes great products, does the message count more than the messenger? No! Unless you're an idiot, you ALWAYS consider who the messenger is. That information is important because it reveals the messenger's bias. This guy is a Microsoft Poodle and his opinion is NOT objective. What you just said is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. ALWAYS consider the source.
I love anti-MS circle jerks on slashdot articles and zealots saying how Linux is so superior yet Linux lacks even a modicum of finesse that Windows has. Windows 7 hands down beats any OS I've used including the several large distros of Linux I've used (RedHat, Fedora, Slackware, Ubuntu, Mandriva). It works, has almost no driver problems so things Just Work (TM), and is god damn stable. It's better than any Windows OS ever released. The new UI while played down as "nothing major" by you FOSS zealots makes the workflow of Win7 much faster and more intuitive than OS X or Linux is currently capable of. Not only that, the potential that software devs have is enormous with being able to integrate jumplists and stuff right into their taskbar icons and start menu. Have any of you anti-MS zealots even used Windows since 3.1? Live in the now, man.
That is revisionist history in the extreme.
No that was his opinion , which he is entitled to have.
Despite all who liked Vista - and there were many - no, it was not a good operating system if you use simple consumer metrics
Not a fact. It is your opinion which you are entitled to have.
: a) it frustrated people
Theres a broad statement. How many people did it frustrate. what percentage of Vista users were frustrated by Vista. Where are you getting this data.
It didn't frustrate me. But if it even frustrated 2 people this would be a true statement.
b) it caused many working Windows systems to no longer work
See above. How many Windows systems actually stopped working. does this count only the ones that stopped working altogether. Does it count systems that stopped working but were repaired or fixed while still using Windows Vista
My system ran just fine on Vista.
c) it created confusion without end.
Ok can you provide some data on how much confusion this created. was it alot of confusion to just a few people. or a little confusion to a lot of people.
It didn't confuse me at all. Of course most people who sit in front of a computer get confused when you get to the really tough tech stuff like plugging it in and turning it on. This wouldnt be Vistas fault.
it was so bad that the company that made it decided to call the fixed version by a completely different name.
Thats if Windows 7 is just the FIXED version. I have yet to read anywhere that microsoft said they just fixed vista and gave it a differnt name and that product was windows 7.
At the risk of being modded down as a basher - and I'm not - I say this because it's REALITY.
You say your not a basher. If it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck most likely its a duck,
You say this is "REALITY" Sorry but I call bullsh*t. It may be your reality but you are not so special that your reality becomes everyones reality.
You might want to disagree with me as a happy Vista user - but that makes my point.
WOW you are really full of yourself. Im just curious when you masturbate do you call out your own name.
How the hell does anyone disagreeing with you make your point. It doesn't. It just shows that your an egomaniac who thinks your opinion is law and the rest of us who disagree are just nuts or confused. Blow me
Do you even remember Longhorn?
I also remember Coke blak
At this point Im going to ignore the rest of this mess until you write something sane.
Such things could include Windows Vista sucked. (Thats an opinion which we are all entitled to have)
NOT
Windows Vista Causes testicular cancer in midgets. (Thats just a load of bullsh*t untill its backed by PROOF)