Slashdot Mirror
Lost Northwest Pilots Were Trying Out New Software
Hugh Pickens writes "The NY Times reports that two Northwest Airlines pilots who flew about 110 miles past their destination to the skies over Wisconsin as more than a dozen air-traffic controllers in three locations tried to get the plane's attention had taken out their personal laptops in the cockpit, a violation of airline policy, so the first officer could tutor the captain in a new scheduling system put in place by Delta Air Lines, which acquired Northwest last fall. 'Both said they lost track of time,' said an interim report from the National Transportation Safety Board countering theories in aviation circles that the two pilots might have fallen asleep or were arguing in the cockpit. 'Using laptops or engaging in activity unrelated to the pilots' command of the aircraft during flight,' said a statement from Delta Airlines, 'is strictly against the airline's flight deck policies and violations of that policy will result in termination.' Industry executives and analysts said the pilots' behavior was a striking lapse for such veteran airmen who have a total of 31,000 flying hours of experience between them. In the case of Flight 188, 'Neither pilot was aware of the airplane's position until a flight attendant called about five minutes before they were scheduled to land and asked what was their estimated time of arrival,' the interim report said."
But it is news to me, it can commandeer aircraft radios and navigational aids within vicinity and convert them into a giant Wi-Fi range extenders.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
They were raiding in WoW, I would imagine. ;-)
"Tutoring in the new scheduling software", my ass.
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
will need to know how to use the new scheduling system now!
They were SO engrossed they neglected to respond to repeated attempts at contact for OVER AN HOUR? They weren't learning a new scheduling system.
They were on a WoW raid, more like.
It's supposed to be completely automatic, but actually you have to press this button.
“Both said they lost track of time,” the report stated. It also said that the pilots had heard voices over their cockpit radios but ignored them.
There is really no excuse for both pilots completely losing situational awareness like this. They're both toast, and deserve to be.
As for the scheduling system they were going over - actually, that is probably the 'news for nerds' part. The old airline schedules were built in two units - 'pairings' and 'lines of time'. A pairing is a group of flights, typically from 1 to 6 days long, that begun and ended in a pilot domicile. The word 'pairing' was to indicate that an entire crew was 'paired' together that whole time. A line of time (or simply a line) was a month-long group of those pairings. There is a long list of legal requrements (min rest, max flight time, union contractual obligations, aircraft mx requirements, etc.) that these schedules had to meet.
Ultimately, from the pilot's point of view, these lines were published each month for the next month. Bidding was very straightforward. If you were the number 1 senior pilot in that base (technically, domicile, aircraft and status (capt. or F/O), you picked your line, and that was that. If you were #2, you picked your schedule, and got it.... unless the number 1 guy already got it, in which case you got your second choice. If you were number #300.... well, picking 300 schedules in the order you want them was a time consuming task, but the outcome was perfectly transparent. The line awards were public, so you could verify that the schedules you didn't get really did go to senior people. You can debate whether such a system is 'fair', but at least it is clear how it works, both globally and month to month.
Then, with the advent of more powerful computers, a system called 'PBS' was born - Preferential Bidding System. These systems, instead of having hard, published lines you bid from, instead only published the pairings. You expressed your 'Preferences' through a computer language. A computer program then ran, taking everybodys preferences, seniority, system constraints, etc. into account and generated schedules.
In theory, PBS sounds great. A pilot's preferences generally don't change that much month to month, so you could file your bid away and let it run automatically each month with little or no tweaking.
In practice, it's usually been highly disruptive and caused great angst for a year or two after being implemented, for many reasons:
1) The language used to express your preferences is generally designed for the programmers, not the users.
2) The results can be, to put it mildly, unexpected. When you have pre-published schedules, you have a pretty good idea ahead of time what to expect.
3) There are no month-to-month conflicts that generate additional days off, resulting in more work per pilot, a reason the airlines like them and pilots don't, on average.
4) Non-computer savvy older pilots (Captians) have a harder time getting it than younger pilots (F/O's), on average. It takes a vastly important piece of your life (when are you working? Where are you going? 28 hours in HNL or 32 hours in XNA?), and makes it tied to your comfort with learning, essentially, a primitive computer language.
I cringe when I see this, because I've done this - taught Captians while flying about PBS. So have many other F/O's. You just prioritize it where it belongs - below aviating, navigating and communicating. These guys made everyone else look bad.
I am surprised that anyone is able to keep their job. Where an honest mistake where no one was harmed causes someone to loose their career. I would feel more comfortable riding in a plain from a pilot who has a relatively good record and made a mistake and got severely corrected As they know the severity of their mistake, and are extra careful not to make an other one. Vs. a Pilot who has a good records but has gone too comfortable with their job, and will be likely to make their first mistake.
It reminds me when I first started working. I was cleaning out my old backup files. so I meant to do a rm -f *~ but me being green and not so careful I did an rm -f * ~
I Hit Ctrl-C after I realized it was taking way to long. However, I cleared out about 2 weeks of work. Plus my personal documents. Needless to say I learned to backup more freaklently and the value of a good source control system.
But If I were to get fired after that mistake and forced to switch careers then I wouldn't be able to apply my new learned methods.
That is why I cringe whenever there is a big mistake and people go well I hope that guy gets fired. Because the guy who did the mistake and especially if he was honest about it, would probably be so much more careful the nest time around. Who I would be more worried about is the guy who fired him. As part of the mistake is on him too. For not making sure they are safe guard in place.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
I'm sorry but that's just crap. New pilots, sure, they make less, but on *AVERAGE* the pay is around $70k.
http://www.avjobs.com/salaries-wages-pay/pilot-pay.asp
No. A shootdown would have been nearly impossible in this situation. This was stupid, and both pilots should and probably will be terminated over it, but the passengers were never in any real danger.
The initial theory at ATC on this was probably that they had a radio failure. Radios fail, so there are procedures to deal with it. 110 mile overshoot at aircraft speeds probably means they were out of radio contact for 15-20 minutes of flight time after passing their destination. ATC was probably still working down through their checklist while dealing with the rest of the radio traffic at the same time. The aircraft has lots of reserve fuel as per FAA regs, and the plane was following its assigned flight path (a little longer than scheduled, but it wasn't going whacko, so the assumption might have been that the crew had a radio or other mechanical issue and were trying to deal with it).
ATC obviously verified that their flight path was clear, which put a tad more load on them, but they were at cruising altitude and there's plenty of room up in Class A airspace. And if they had flown over something sensitive enough to have a restricted zone up at 37,000 feet (which would be exceptionally rare, most MOAs only extend up to class A airspace, not into it), the military would have scrambled a couple of fighters to pay them a visit. If they didn't notice the fighters themselves, I'm sure some passenger would alert a stewardess and the pilots would have jumped on the emergency band in a big fat effing hurry, or if they really had a radio out watched for the wings to waggle and followed them to a runway. It's hard to miss a fighter 20 feet off your nose, and those guys are pretty damned good at getting close enough to be noticed without inducing turbulence.
I imagine a few people at ATC were just starting to get worried, since it could also be crew incapacitation (fun facts to know and tell - if you lock the very reinforced flight door from the crew side and both crewmembers die or become incapacitated, you're pretty much screwed - no Patrick Swayze bad movie moments of private pilots landing the plane at their favorite airstrip causing fun and mayhem but saving lives - just simple fuel starvation and uncontrolled descent into terrain). I'm sure there was the sound of a few strained sphincters unclenching when Dumb and Dumber got on the horn and acknowledged that they were simply distracted.
This was incredibly dumb, and deserves termination or at least a very, VERY strong reprimand, but at no time were the passengers in any danger.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
so the first officer could tutor the captain in a new scheduling system put in place by Delta Air Lines
If this is really the case (which is still to be confirmed), then they were at least working for their company, making the best use of what they (incorrectly) thought was "available" time.
Keep this in mind, all of you reading slashdot at work !
You mean like unknown to the pilot emergencies that might be communicated to him by a traffic controller, such as change your altitude, you are on a collision course with x-other plane?
A pilot ignoring traffic controllers for over an hour is NOT a non-event.
Funny, then, that the method of travel which you insist is the safest actually results in the most deaths per mile traveled... I am not saying anything about you *personally* but this kind of poor risk judgment is what leads to all kinds of bad decisions. From what type of travel to choose, to what kind of medical treatment to choose, we humans are absolutely TERRIBLE at properly weighing risk. Say what you will about the fallibility of statistics, we all stand to gain if people put a little more stock in sound science as opposed to emotion-driven decision making.
ATC would have guided them through maneuvers anyway, so I'm sure that's true. They would have had to receive and acknowledge a new course back to the airport control area, and a descent path to pattern.
But, yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if they had the aircraft execute a few turns first to make absolutely sure they had the correct aircraft and that the pilots could comprehend and execute instructions. I've never heard of the procedure, but I'm only a private pilot and the few times I've used flight following I've managed to keep positive radio contact at all times.
And the maneuvers served another purpose. Time building. After all, since this was probably their last flight the pilots might as well make the most of it and log as much PIC time as they can... and, hey, they know how to use the new scheduling system now, so they can clearly see that they don't have any flights coming up in the near future.
I just read a more thorough FAA report on the incident, and it seems they were out of contact for about an hour, and other pilots on other aircraft where assisting trying different frequencies. Pilots do lose contact with ATC from time to time when up in Class A airspace, but this one was probably VERY close to the point where they'd scramble a couple of fast intercept planes to go check things out.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
The stall speed of an F-16 is around 120 knots. This would be a problem when intercepting a Cessna at cruise, because they can cruise comfortably at about 90 knots. But a passenger jet is going to be running at a minimum of 300 knots or so at cruise. Intercept would be absolutely no problem under these circumstances.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
I am an ex-IT engineer turned airline pilot (currently flying Airbus A320) so will bite and explain some items...
1. there are loudspeakers in the cockpit, usually the volume is at mid-level, but you choose the volume you want
2. it takes about 10m to fly 80 miles, so 110miles of course would mean they were engaged in the discussion for some 25m (10m from Top of Descent plus the 110m after destination)
3. You normally keep an ear out for someone calling you in the radio, but sometimes you just might miss it. I concede that 30m without listening to air traffic control is too much...
4. Their timing was all wrong... Near top of descent turning on their laptops?? Come on...... It's one of the only 2 situations were you really must have full attention, Takeoff until Top of Climb and from Top of Descent to Landing....
5. There is an automatic system called TCAS (Traffic Collision and Avoiding System) that would warn them if there was any chance of colliding with another aircraft. This system is mandatory (at least in Europe) and is why those 2 aircraft over Brazil collided some years ago.
6. In what regards to fuel, you take fuel to fly to destination + fuel to fly from destination to alternate landing + 30m holding at alternate + whatever your airline policy sees fit + whatever captain decision sees fit. They probably landed short on fuel to fly to destination, but there are procedures in place for this.
7. Normally there are allways 2 radion frequencies in use, the area you are in and the emergency frequency. Also, some airplanes have HF frequencies and can be called over HF. This will sound a buzzer in the cockpit and is quite loud.I doubt ATC called them over HF....
8. Autopilot was obviously on, but it doesn't beep when reaching Top of Descent...
9. Firing them is a bit excessive, but some sort of disciplinary action should be taken. Do not forget that training a pilot costs above 100kUSD, so it is not immediate to find a replacement. Also it is easy to just appoint blame, but keep in mind that aviation is not like your regular day job. There is no excuse for what happened here but the mentality of "you erred, you're fired" will cause problems in the future.....
B
Jesus Christ, I hate those christians!!
HAH! "for a job that technology has made almost fully automated... the larger the plane, the more they earn - even though it takes little more skill to pilot a jumbo jet."
$200K for the decades of training and experience to know what to do when one of the world's more complicated machines breaks, a mile in the air, with 200 souls on board. "Overpaid"? What a jackass.
No flares, no afterburners. Intercept procedures are well-established and are part of basic pilot training.
The intercepting aircraft will perform a closing pass, starting from one side and overtaking (generally on the left since this is where the senior pilot usually sits). If the intercepting craft cannot slow enough, it will make a crossing overtake pass in front of and below the intercepted aircraft (to avoid inducing turbulence on the intercepted craft), repeating as necessary until radio contact has been made or the intercepted aircraft waggles its wings to acknowledge presence (or eye contact is made between the two pilots if both aircraft can fly at the same speed).
A second intercept aircraft flies behind and above the intercepted craft, watching for wing waggle and/or any other signs the pilot of the intercepted craft may give. If you're going to be shot down, that's his job too. But to my knowledge that's never been done.
There is a clearly-established set of hand signals AND aircraft signals that may be used to indicate what the interceptor wants the intercepted pilot to do. The VERY first thing is to acknowledge to the interceptor that you see and are aware of them (waggle the wings), then the intercepted pilot gets on the emergency frequency at 121.5 and identifies himself as an intercepted aircraft, if a radio is available and working. From there, the interceptor has a series of very visible signals to indicate that you should follow them, or you are free to go about your business, or you are to land at the airport they are headed toward, or whatever they want you to do.
The AOPA does a big campaign to get these cards in the hands of every pilot several times a year. If you know a pilot and they don't carry one of these, print out one and glue it to their lapboard: http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/intercept.pdf
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
I'm a Network Engineer and a private pilot working toward ATP and I hear what you're saying with all 9 of your points. The pilots honestly expect us to believe that they took out their laptops and were so distracted by what they were doing that they lost track of time. No, sir. I don't buy it. This simply does not happen. Pilots are some of the most methodical and anal retentive people on the face of the planet. Taking time away from the duty of flying the aircraft (especially a large airliner with over 100 people onboard) simply doesn't happen unless the pilots are incapacitated. Yes, computers do much of the mundane work but the pilots are responsible for always triple-checking the aircraft's computers with respect to navigation, fuel state, engine performance, and a host of other factors that keep them busy. Even if one of the pilots took out his laptop for some reason (Showing off Windows 7?) the other pilot never would have done the same. As for missing the radio calls, you know as well as I do that not long after the flight is airborne, the non-PIC has trained their hearing to pick out his/her flight number from the ATC traffic like it was their mother's name. No sir, they were asleep. We all know the problems commercial pilots face. Long hours, little pay, waking up at 3:30am to open Starbucks and then jumping into the cockpit of an RJ at 9am. Pilot fatigue is reaching a critical stage and I believe this is just the beginning of events like this. Granted, both pilots falling asleep is going to be rare, but having at least one pilot taking a power nap in the cockpit is fairly common.
Minnesota Air National Guard here-
(Just for your own information)
We were on alert standby throughout the event; that is to say, we knew about it and kept in contact with norad and the mpls atc, and our pilots were suited up. Had a scramble been declared, we probably would have intercepted the airliner within 20 minutes unless Madison got there first. Wouldn't be the first time this has happened.
-b
No offense, but I've stopped responding to AC's.
What's the signal for "Windows has crashed and I have to wait for it to reboot"?
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
I am an ex-IT engineer turned airline pilot (currently flying Airbus A320)
Dude, did you learn nothing from this story? Don't post to slashdot when you're flying!It'll get you in trouble! ;-)
You can't take the sky from me...
I may be misunderstanding your wording, so we may be agreeing vehemently here..
Any alternate airport is not going to be a rural strip, this is a Part 115 flight which means they need a manned tower to legally land unless overriding safety concerns apply. "Alternate airport" does not mean "gotta get on the effing ground now where's a strip of tarmac or a long stretch of highway", it means another airport with sufficient capacity for a routine landing of the aircraft in question, including the ability to handle the passengers and sufficient emergency equipment to handle trouble. So the alternate is probably not terribly close to the main airport (though I don't know what they'd pick as an alternate on that flight), and the landing is going to be pretty routine (if in an inconvenient location for the passengers on board).
I've been diverted due to traffic (En Route Reserve exaustion), and basically it went like this:
1. Thunderstorm over destination airport (CVG), traffic backed up.
2. Entered pattern way the hell up in the air, started working down the stack.
3. Pilot used up "En Route" and "En Route Reserve" and started digging into "Contingency Fuel" due to heavy traffic (stacked pattern). Pilot announced that we needed to divert and started the clock on "Alternate Fuel" to get to the alternate airport. We were 15 minutes or so from getting landing clearance based on where we were in the pattern, BUT we were out of Contingency Fuel and En Route Reserve, and so we had to divert to Alternate because if we had been delayed any longer AND THEN had to go to Alternate we would have been deeply screwed.
4. Flew to Toledo, landed. Note that this was probably the CLOSEST alternate, and I'm sure we had a good chunk of Alternate fuel left. Airport looked different, but it was a normal landing.
5. Refueled. No one allowed off plane because we all wanted to get to CVG soonest and a deplane/replane would have cost time.
6. Waited an hour on the tarmac in Toledo for CVG traffic to normalize again.
7. Flew back to CVG, landed, taxiied to different gate since we were off schedule.
8. Thankfully I had a 2.5 hour layover and made my connector.
En-route Reserve and Contingency fuel are in addition to En Route and Alternate fuel. I don't have that section of the FAR/AIM in front of me at the moment and don't have time to look it up, but I think the International reserve is an international standard, and not just for international flights. However, let's assume it does not apply.
Assuming they picked their most distant alternate 1 hour away, and the flight is 3h 45m long (approximately what the Delta Flight Status page calls for).
En Route: about 4 hours, including a missed approach of 15 minutes.
Alternate: 1 hour. Total 5 hours.
En Route Reserve: 15% of 5 hours, 45 minutes. Since that's less than 90, we use that. Total is now 5:45.
Contingency: For a busy airport, add an hour. Let's assume they added a ridiculously low 15 minutes to save fuel weight. Total is now 6:00
So we have an approximate 6 hours of fuel on board for a less-than-4-hour flight. Maybe 6:30 if #3 applied.
So assuming 15 minutes to discover their mistake and 15 minutes to fly back, Dumb and Dumber used 2/3 of their En Route Reserve, and didn't touch their Alternate or Contingency fuel levels at all. In other words, the flight was made within FAA fuel regs, if not within Delta CRM (Cockpit Resource Management) regs or within the boundaries of common sense.
And yes, they are all in the same fuel tank (grin). But you burn them for the purpose for which they are intended. If you are out of En Route Reserve and Contingency, then you NEED to head straight for your nearest practical (weather, traffic, and other factors considered) Alternate airport right now so you arrive with plenty of fuel to make a safe landing there.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
Ahh, "Pop-up TFRs" (TFR = Temporary Flight Restrictions). The bane of every private pilot's existence since 9/11. Terribly inconvenient when they are announced before you take off, and somewhat more inconvenient if they are declared while you're inside one.
Kinda like a thunderstorm, with more ammo and less predictability.
Fortunately, the fine uniformed ladies and gentlemen who fly the intercepts have good judgment and a deep reluctance to shoot down unarmed gnats, so it hasn't been a fatal mistake... yet.
Because, God forbid should a Cessna weighing less than a Pinto and capable of a blistering 125 miles per hour get within 30 nautical miles of the President, Vice President, or any sporting event in progress...
I mean, after all, look at all the deaths caused by terrorist activities based in small aircraft.
What's that you say?
No, I couldn't find them either.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."