No Hand-Held Devices In Ontario Cars

NIK282000 writes "To cut down on accidents caused by drivers who aren't paying attention, in Ontario it is now a ticketable offense to text, email, or navigate with your GPS while driving. But it seems to me that they have thrown the baby out with the bathwater, because it is now also a $500 fine to change your radio station, change songs on your MP3 player, or even drink your morning coffee. It can also be enforced to the point where changing the climate controls on your dash can get you fined because it requires you to take your hands off the wheel. Though this was a good idea, it seems to have been taken a little too far."

Comments

Really?

[noundi]

Though this was a good idea, it seems to have been taken a little too far.

Here's how I reason. Regardless if I can or cannot drive perfectly well while drinking coffee with one hand, for all I know this could be completely fatal in your case. And if keeping the right to drink my morning coffee while driving potentially means losing my legs or even my life simply because you also had those rights, then it's a very, very, very small price to pay.

Re:Really?

[noundi]

I too would much prefer a more broad rule.

I find people talking on cellphones tend to be looking roughly straight ahead. Attention is diverted, but it's not as bad as a lot of other situations.

All my close calls involved other devices. One woman was putting on lipstick. Another guy was changing a CD. Another pulled into a 3-way intersection while looking for sunglasses.

I was able to swerve (slightly) into the wrong lane to avoid all three, but in busier locations that'd make the situation far worse. I happen to live in a small city in BC(<100k people), but in a large city of millions, with dozens of lanes of traffic, you just can't pull off the moves I did. It'd mean bad accidents, so I fully understand the desire to prevent it.

Regarding cellphones... many young people can operate them without looking at the screen or phone, and can drop them in an instant if necessary to grab the wheel. I'm really worried about other stuff more. Anything that takes your eyes off the road...

(Oh, and FYI - I'm responsible and pull over when making calls. You like to drink morning coffee huh, on the way to work? Well screw you!)

You're right. But really we're repeating what has been stated as plain fucking truth long ago: people think they are much better drivers than they actually are. So this means one thing, the responsibility (even though possible in the case of a few more intelligent people) cannot be put on the driver. The driver shouldn't be allowed to evaluate if "this is a good time to speak in the phone" or "this is a good time to drink my coffee" or "this is a good time to change the CD". It should simply be forbidden because the driver makes the common mistake of thinking he's safe because of his alleged awesome driving skills. Leaving the rest of us at danger, not only drivers but also pedestrians/cyclists and even property.

Re:They've taken a leaf out of the UK's book

[Anonymous Coward]

It's easier and more profitable to ticket almost law abiding citizens than hard core criminals.

Re:RTFS

[mcdonald.or]

Indeed it does. If the GPS is attached to the window, or dash mounted it can be used. If however you cause an accident by setting the address as you drive, you get the $1000 fine and points on your license.

However, the biggest problem I have with this new law, is not that it exists, I live in Ontario and cheer that it is in place, is that it does not apply to police officers. They are allowed to use hand held devices (such as cell phones) while they are driving. What is it that makes a copper less likely to be distracted by a hand held device than you or me?

Re:It does not go too far

[Aladrin]

"Any driver involved in an accident while their car was moving should immediately have their license suspended and car impounded until cause can be determined."

So under your proposed law, if someone hits you and the cop isn't sure, you lose your license until he is. And if he makes a mistake and finds you to be at fault, you lose your license?

No, that's far too extreme. You've gone beyond simple safety precautions and up into revenge.

Re:They've taken a leaf out of the UK's book

[fredjh]

Politicians create additional laws so they can take credit for them. Yes, most places already have these laws, but it's better for the politicians to create new ones instead of reminding people about the existing ones or encouraging better enforcement, which wouldn't get them much publicity.

Re:They've taken a leaf out of the UK's book

[AndGodSed]

Because "Driving without care or attention" has two possible problems.

1 - It is easier for a cop to say "I am fining you because you are talking on your cell while driving" as opposed to "I am fining you for driving without care or attention because you are talking on your cellphone while driving" and to make the point without wasting both parties time.

2 - "Driving without care or attention" leaves too much room for subjective argumentation - "But I can drive just as well while on the cell as when I am not!" and in (1) above it can become really problematic.

Re:They've taken a leaf out of the UK's book

[itsdapead]

Do none of these places have an offense of "driving without due care or attention" which would suffice,

Yeah, but that involves the police gathering evidence and making a case that a driver was not in control of their vehicle. These new offences are mainly "fixed penalty" jobs that bypass all that tedious stuff about "due process" and "a fair hearing", and are absolutely brilliant for soft-targetting people sitting in traffic jams (much easier than catching that idiot in a BMW as he zooms past).

On the bright side, maybe eventually the police will be given powers to simply arrest anybody driving a white van or a large German car.

Re:They've taken a leaf out of the UK's book

[TheKidWho]

Except for the fact that accidents per mile driven have been decreasing and are at an all time low in the USA...

But you keep calling other people idiots.

Get off your high horse

[syousef]

So no, this law does not go too far, in fact it does not go far enough. It should mandate that anyone found driving while distracted be charged with reckless endangerment of human life.

Anyone who claims they've never driven while distracted is a complete and utter moron. Mod it flamebait, I don't give a fuck but you sir are a fuckwit. It'd be more effective to ban babies from being in the car since an infant in a car seat who has just vomited and is about to choke to death is a far greater distraction than changing the fucking radio station.

I'm almost surprised you haven't suggested that cars need to be banned period.

The correct solution by the way is to teach people how to cope with distractions. AND TEST the driver for being able to cope with distractions. Life is full of them and pretending they don't exist is far more culpable than changing a radio station.

Everyone has a right to travel. No one has the right to endanger others.

First of all there is no "right to travel". Secondly the two are not compatible. There is a risk to yourself and others around you when you travel. It can be minimised NOT eliminated.

Those that do endanger others need to be held accountable for their actions

You mean like existing dangerous driving laws?

Re:They've taken a leaf out of the UK's book

[Bert64]

Less accidents, despite the increase in electronic devices...

And this has nothing to do with the fact that cars these days have better safety features?

Also a device like a GPS may actually decrease accidents, because it reduces stress... You no longer have to worry about getting lost, and try to read a map as you drive (you used to see this a lot - people with maps open on their steering wheel as they drove), you just relax and let the GPS guide you, no stress.

Re:Man!

[Anonymous Coward]

You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose but you can't pick your friend's nose.

Re:They've taken a leaf out of the UK's book

[MBGMorden]

Um, no. You rear ended a truck because you gunned your gas without paying attention to what was in front of you. Pulling out the fritter at the red light wasn't the issue - not returning your attention to the road when the time came was.