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Zombies As American Zeitgeist Proxies

blackbearnh writes "No doubt, there will be more than a few brain-munching glassy-eyed zombies showing up on the typical doorstep tonight, demanding brains, brains, brains, or at least some Milk Duds. But according to this essay over on Forbes.com, zombies are more than just the trendy monster on the block, they are to Americans what Godzilla is to Japanese: a personification of our fear of science and technology. 'It seems you can't throw a half-eaten cerebrum these days without hitting a posse of zombies brought to life by some kind of biological mishap (28 Days Later, Resident Evil, Planet Terror, Quarantine). Like Godzilla, zombies keep up with the times, always ready to mirror whatever aspect of science and technology people feel most uncertain about at the moment.'"

44 of 263 comments (clear)

  1. Incidentally. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    This entry belongs in Idle, which incidentally is perused exclusively by zombies.

  2. umm.... by realityimpaired · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm pretty sure that in Dawn of the Dead, Romero wasn't trying to convey a fear of new technology, but rather a disdain for commercialism.... the bulk of that movie took place in a shopping mall, fer cryin' out loud!

  3. Not necessarily of US origin.. by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 5, Informative

    Both 28 Days Later and Resident Evil were made respectively by a UK director (in the UK), and by a UK company (FilmFour)....

    1. Re:Not necessarily of US origin.. by __aagctu1952 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Both 28 Days Later and Resident Evil were made respectively by a UK director (in the UK), and by a UK company (FilmFour)....

      And "Quarantine" is a remake of a Spanish movie, [Rec].

    2. Re:Not necessarily of US origin.. by Philip+K+Dickhead · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Zombies. Yawn.

      Pirates. Yawn.

      Ninjas. Yawn.

      Strippers? O.K. Where's the Gin?

      --
      "Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
    3. Re:Not necessarily of US origin.. by spymagician · · Score: 2, Informative

      Both 28 Days Later and Resident Evil were made respectively by a UK director (in the UK), and by a UK company (FilmFour)....

      Resident Evil (film) was based loosely on the Capcom (Japanese) videogame series Biohazard (Resident Evil in the US). The original games were intentional homages to classic zombie and "science-gone-awry" films and stories, although the latest installments have moved away from that somewhat.

    4. Re:Not necessarily of US origin.. by JustOK · · Score: 2, Funny

      you'll never see them if they're ninja strippers.

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    5. Re:Not necessarily of US origin.. by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 2, Informative
      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  4. Fear of Science and Technology? by icebike · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This seems a bit of a stretch, since Americans embrace Science and Technology readily.

    Seems more likely a personification of fear of death.

    However, I personally don't lend much credence to these mumbo-jumbo pseudo scientific explanations of things people do for the sheer fun of it. Some things don't have a deeper meaning.

    --
    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    1. Re:Fear of Science and Technology? by Threni · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly. "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar", as a number of people, including Freud himself, are alleged to have said.

    2. Re:Fear of Science and Technology? by shog9 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Just today I saw a woman, probably in her 60s, step back from a touch screen, claiming that she didn't trust the machine.

      Shucks... Still in my 20s, and I don't trust the machine. Sounds like a savvy old gal to me!

    3. Re:Fear of Science and Technology? by icebike · · Score: 3, Insightful

      People are very sensitized to risks of technology that they don't understand

      Defined sensitized.

      We jump in cars and elevators without a thought, we yak on cell phones and play on computers, we plug things into electrical outlets without a care, buy game consoles, and generally adopt new technology readily, be they gadgets, GPSs, phones, emission controls, electric vehicles or solar power.

      Sensitization to risks, to the extent it exists, is not driven by Joe User, but rather by the fear mongering groups opposed to something and their press lapdogs.

      30 years of Nuclear fears generated by hype from green movement groups is now seen by those same groups as having been a huge tactical mistake. But it will take 20 years to undo the fear, with the coal plants running full tilt in the meantime.

      Americans have great faith in Science, largely justified.

      But, beginning in the 60s this believe has been progressively poisoned by years of attempts to ban/reduce everything from peanuts to salt to coffee to aspirin to sugar, potatoes, wheat, and rock and roll. The stories of lake Eire being permanently a dead lake, of imminent death due to any number natural disasters largely foisted by pseudo-scientists with a political ax to grind has taken its toll. Always the FUD before the FACTS, the Fear before the Data, the Restrictions before the Research.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    4. Re:Fear of Science and Technology? by Artifakt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There have been some interesting major shifts in what gets made into horror movies, (and books, radio, or TV horror)

      For one, for about 20 years just before the stage production of Dracula took off, Mummies were really big, with dozens of stories in horror magazines and such each year. Vampires were practically unknown. A lot of things Stoker originated just sort of collectively jumped into people's minds after that - Vampires took on distinctive fictional features such as not crossing running water, or turning into mists or bats, for the first time. Within a decade, just about anyone you polled had heard of them, and most thought that Stoker's additions to the legends were centuries old parts of the original legends instead.
            Zombies did something similar. There were a few films with voodoo style zombies, animated by a Hougan (usually called a witch doctor). There were lots of references to New orleans style Voodoo (Fewer to Haiti or African roots of vodou), and a whole lot of superficial references to Vodou beliefs and practices. If one of those zombies killed somebody, it probably slowly shambled over to the victim as a witch doctor directed it, and crushed or strangled the victim. Night of the Living Dead rebuilt the zombie, giving them an appetite, which soon became focused on brains. Now, I suspect if you surveyed a lot of people, most of them know of the Zombies - Brains connection, but most of those think it's something from original myths and legends, not George Romero.
            Alien Invaders and Atomic Mutants caught on in the 50's, but there was a more general common trend, to horror that didn't involve the supernatural. Hundreds of thousands of people who had never heard of or read H. P. Lovecraft seem to have found themselves agreeing with his arguments from 20 years before about horror without religious overtones.
            When people suddenly shift positions to a new focus, in vast numbers, and they don't know where the new idea comes from and instead talk as though the idea has always been around, that's why psychologists think there are deeper meanings. A huge shift in what is sometimes called the zeitgist happens, AND many people in the middle of the shift claim things haven't changed, attribute new ideas to fictitious or ancient sources, and often, deny vehemently that they themselves have changed their opinions in the slightest. A hundred million adult people read a series of books about a boy wizard written for young readers, when five years before they would have had no interest in such things and the idea of such a series making the author the richest author ever would have sounded totally absurd to them.
            If there's no deeper meaning behind such shifts, maybe there's also no 'deeper meaning' behind election landslides, stock market crashes, or political witch hunt movements either. Maybe such things just happen, with no underlying causes. That, if you really follow the train of thought to its logical end, is scarier than real zombies.
       

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
    5. Re:Fear of Science and Technology? by Zak3056 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Now, I suspect if you surveyed a lot of people, most of them know of the Zombies - Brains connection, but most of those think it's something from original myths and legends, not George Romero.

      IIRC, both they, and you, would be wrong. :) The "Brains" connection comes not from Romero's zombie movies, but from the "Return of the Living Dead" series, which is unrelated.

      --
      What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?
  5. Or maybe... by turing_m · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... you just needed a convenient enemy for an FPS? Something in the uncanny valley that is human-like but not quite human that the average person will feel compelled to blow away?

    So now you've decided on zombies, you've got to figure out how they were created so the plot makes sense. Supernatural, or science. If science, pick from alien technology, radiation, biological means, or something a bit more wacky - other dimension, your large Hadron collider malfunctions, I don't know.

    There are only so many explanations the public will buy to sate their desire to blow away not-quite-human things. You have to pick one.

    --
    If I have seen further it is by stealing the Intellectual Property of giants.
  6. Fear of Tech? by lyinhart · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Of all the examples he could have chosen, he chose zombies? In most films, if there is an explanation for their existence of the zombies in the film, it's usual mystical or related to disease or something (as the writer cedes). But the writer had better examples he could have chosen. Like the "evil computer" - e.g. Hal 9000 from 2001, or Skynet from the Terminator films.

    --
    Freedom is drinking a beer in the park when you're supposed to be at work.
    1. Re:Fear of Tech? by hey! · · Score: 5, Interesting

      OK, I'm an engineer, but I've had the *rudiments* of a liberal education, and *I* can see that the idea that zombies represent fear of technology *per se* is weak.

      No.

      What zombies represent are fear of the economic and cultural changes which are facilitated by technology. Depersonalization. How far is it from a cubical drone to a zombie? Pretty much add the taste for human brain and you're there. Take something like a MacDonald's restaurant -- not to pick on them, but all franchises are the same. A franchise is a complicated economic relationship in which the individual store, although possibly independently owned, has everything defined by corporate HQ (in this case MacDonald's HQ). The franchisee has a detailed manual which specifies how to *everything*, how to respond to any kind of situation that might arise. In fact, it doesn't just *say* how. It *mandates*. It is a big collection of algorithms. And every one of those algorithms is executed by *people*, not based on their own judgment, but triggered by the conditions specified in the manual.

      So what zombies represent is not a fear of technology, but a fear of *becoming* technology.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  7. Oh, FFS by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Zombies are fun. They're fun for costumes, they're fun as horror movie bad guys, they're fun to blow away in video games.

    Pirates and ninjas and vampires are fun, too, but they've been overexposed. Zombies are about to go the same way, I suspect, and they'll drop off the cultural radar screen for a while. Then they'll come back (they always come back ...) after people have gone through a few more cycles of archetype-of-the-week.

    That's really all the explanation needed. Trying to read some deep cultural significance into what monsters are popular at the moment is almost always a fool's game. Even Godzilla very quickly outgrew its origins as a nuclear metaphor, and just became a fun monster.

    --
    The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    1. Re:Oh, FFS by ruiner13 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Then they'll come back (they always come back ...)

      that's because you didn't shoot them in the head! Double-tap, man!

      --

      today is spelling optional day.

  8. Re:Fear of Science... by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This seems a bit of a stretch, since Americans embrace Science and Technology readily.

    Almost all Americans are willing to embrace technology, but few really embrace science. In fact, a large number are overtly hostile to some branches of science (especially the biological sciences). The majority seems content to retain an ignorance of science in general, or perhaps fear that they are incapable of understanding it.

    --
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
  9. Re:Way to over-analyze, Forbes by Philip+K+Dickhead · · Score: 2, Informative

    > For your next trick, can I get an article about how movie vampires represent world-wide fear of religion?

    How about a scary story about the American, Kennedy - it includes a body, the real "un-dead" and even... brains.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-m-gillon/a-new-wrinkle-in-the-jfk_b_339026.html

    According to the newly declassified transcript, Mrs. Kennedy was becoming desperate to leave. "Mrs. Kennedy was getting very warm, she had blood all over her hat, her coat...his brains were sticking on her hat. It was dreadful," McHugh said. She pleaded with him to get the plane off the ground. "Please, let's leave," she said. McHugh jumped up and used the phone near the rear compartment to call Captain James Swindal. "Let's leave," he said. Swindal responded: "I can't do it. I have orders to wait."

    --
    "Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
  10. Re:Nope by zblack_eagle · · Score: 5, Funny

    So we'll end up with a Big Gay Al Qaeda?

    Super.

  11. Dammit! by LMacG · · Score: 2, Funny

    There were NO zombies in 28 Days Later.

      . . . pets peeve, tries to calm down, wonder why he brought his goat anyway . . .

    --
    Slightly disreputable, albeit gregarious
    1. Re:Dammit! by Valdrax · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There were NO zombies in 28 Days Later.

          . . . pets peeve, tries to calm down, wonder why he brought his goat anyway . . .

      Okay, then, what's the functional difference? People are infected with a plague via biting (or any other blood exchange) that robs them of their humanity and turns them into cannibals doomed to eventually collapse when their food supply runs out. The plague also makes them extremely dangerous and hard to kill. Society falls apart due to the plague and the remaining uninfected throw out conventional morality in a bid for survival. There's military quarantine, there's impotent scientists, and there's all the classic scenes where people have to deal with their loved one turning.

      If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. It's not like all other movie zombies are undead, and few have any resemblance to the Haitian Voodou origins of the word "zombie." The rage-infected humans in that movie ARE zombies as much as the monsters of any other zombie apocalypse film are and as much as the "vampires" from "I Am Legend" are. They'd even be zombies if the origin of the plague was parasitic wasps (Dead Rising) or alien parasites (Slither).

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  12. Not science and technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If anything, I think zombies symbolize a breakdown of technological society, and the survivalist chaos that would arise in its absence. Most popular zombie movies feature the complete or near destruction of human civilization by the zombie horde. The humans then spend the movie scrounging for weapons, food, shelter, etc, and other humans generally pose at least as great a threat to them as the zombies do. The zombie apocalypse is fundamentally a survivalist fantasy, in which those with guns make the rules and there is an unlimited supply of enemy targets that are only dangerous in numbers, easily fooled, and which can be shot to pieces without ruffling any ethical feathers. In short, a survivalist paradise. This is what appeals to the (probably mostly male) audience. Men are built for violent competition in an environment with no technology and competing, relatively small groups of people, and by largely removing technology from the picture, zombies put us in exactly that situation.

  13. Zombies As American Geek Expression of Hope by Memroid · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I would argue that zombies are nothing related to a fear, but rather the geek's hope for a post-apocalyptic world where they can go back to the basics.

    No more 9-5 jobs.
    No more waiting for the release of the next piece of entertainment.
    No more races for popularity, money, and possessions.

    A simple fight for survival where those who are still alive are considered the successful, the happy, and the free.

  14. Frankenstein? by RyoShin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    according to this essay over on Forbes.com, zombies are more than just the trendy monster on the block, they are to Americans what Godzilla is to Japanese: a personification of our fear of science and technology.

    I would have put that label upon Frankenstein. While perhaps not of American creation (are zombies?), Frankenstein is as well known as Mickey Mouse. And, as opposed to zombies, Frankenstein is, in every iteration, a creation of humanity; whereas Zombies can become as such thanks to any number of suddenly-unearthed virii.

    I would say, though, that zombies strike more fear because they are more unknown. In most versions, Frankenstein answers to someone or can be stopped by some repressed sense of humanity (or a woodchipper, whatever). Zombies, however, have a bloodlust that is rarely stopped short of a shotgun to the head.

    But that might be the reason for the popularity of zombies currently: they have a much more versatile origination scenario than does Frankenstein.

    1. Re:Frankenstein? by blyloveranger · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Frankenstein is, in every iteration, a creation of humanity

      I agree whole-heartedly. You can only watch Mr. and Mrs. Frankenstein do it so many times before you begin to think, "Enough already. I get it. Dr. Frankenstein was a creation of humanity. Now stop showing Dr. Frankstein's ugly-ass parents having sex and start showing Dr. Frankstein create the monster."

  15. Re:Way to over-analyze, Forbes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Vampires represent peoples hangups about sexuality. You are mostly correct right now. The vampire currently represents a man who is everything a girl can want, but for some reason can't love her. This is essentially catering to the "fag-hag" demographic which is actually growing faster and faster as current media extols the virtues of "metrosexual" style. In the early 80s, vampires were generally depicted as doomed souls due to aids panic. In more Victorian times, vampires simply represented sex outside of wedlock. Normally I wouldn't make much of such symbolic interpretations, except for the fact that authors generally are deeply interested in symbolism and therefore a symbol of sexual deviance would be passed down as a way of exploring... sexual deviance.

  16. Profoundly Wrong by benjamindees · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Zombies in no way personify a fear of science and technology. They personify a fear of the elderly. Every American I have ever known to be preoccupied with zombies is a young person. The monsters of elderly Americans' generations were King Kong (Blacks) and, before that, Dracula (Jews).

    Zombies are catatonic, un-dead creatures that forcibly feast on the brains of the living in the same way that elderly Americans forcibly rob younger generations of progress, instead co-opting the best and brightest to work to extend their lives indefinitely, turning them into zombies as well in an unsustainable, exponentially-growing process.

    "You'll eat your young." --some American

    --
    "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
  17. Re:Way to over-analyze, Forbes by hey! · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually, vampires represent two things.

    A few years ago I read an interesting book of bona fide vampire legends collected by a professional folklorist, and he makes a convincing argument that nearly all such real legends (as opposed to literary creations) are associated with events consistent with and strongly suggesting tuberculosis outbreaks. It fits: the increasing pallor and weakness, the slow decline of one, then another family member. In rural populations a single family member might bring the disease back, dooming the entire family, but their neighbors would be hardly exposed at all, giving an effect much like a curse on a single family.

    So vampires represent infectious disease in the true folk imagination.

    A long time ago I read an account by a psychologist who believed that people have a latent fear that the dead will return to life. He convinced a local funeral parlor owner to offer locks on caskets as an option and they sold extremely well.

    So the second thing vampires represent might well be ... fear of vampires.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  18. Re:Zombies just need to be shot by Dunbal · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If anything, the proliferation of zombie movies is not the product of fear of technology, but the result of not having clearly defined enemies.

          Or how about "the proliferation of zombie movies is the result of lazy Hollywood companies that simply want to cash in on a fad, because frankly Hollywood ran out of ideas years ago"?

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  19. What's scary about that? by reiisi · · Score: 2, Insightful

    People. These are real people. After an assassination, things are gory, including blood and internal organs (brains in this case).

    And the emotional state of people is not going to be all that much cleaner, either.

    Presidents and vice presidents, and their family, are real people. When we expect them to be superhuman, we've already lost any war that's important, including metaphorical wars with the undead.

    And if it's just the gore itself that's so scary, well, again, welcome to reality.

    --
    Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
  20. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar by V50 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    When I was in University, I once had some leftist student try to convince me that Batman was evil, using a Marxist analysis. That is, he's a rich man, who tries to keep the poor of Gotham down under his boot by going out at night, scaring beating the crap out of the proletariat for daring to stand up to him and his exploitive, capitalist parents.

    While rather amusing (I don't think he was fully serious, I hope), the truth is, you can see whatever as a metaphor/representation/whatever of anything you want, but at the end of the day, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

    Zombies are cool cause they eat people. That's my analysis.

  21. communist hordes and subversive neighbours by cas2000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    i've always thought that the american fascination with zombies was because they combined a representation of the "mindless hordes of communism" with america's favourite paranoia about Fifth Column subversion of the American Way Of Life

    plus, of course, americans love the Lawless West mythology, that a single good man with a gun can save the day. add to that the survivalist wet-dream of A World Gone Mad and you have the perfect fantasy fuel for everyone, especially the RKBA nutters.

    (that said, i love a good zombie flick myself. or even a bad one)

    oh yeah, while i'm dissecting the american zeitgeist, i'll also mention that the american obsession with robots from the 1950s onwards is due to the white middle class desire to have an obedient slave race that won't revolt....indeed, CAN'T revolt due to Asimov's Three Laws being built-in. robots are proxy black slaves with all the uppitiness removed.

  22. Re:Way to over-analyze, Forbes by sznupi · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Adding to reasons you mention - vampires basically originate from slavic mythology (they were probably introduced to the western Europe by way of human trade in middle ages; for example, "nannies" of slavic descent were supposedly quite valued for some reason, so when they actually were left to care for children it's concievable they would tell some stories...)

    And this was also the time of imposing Christianity on those regions. Very gradual of course; in Poland for example there is currently a widely held myth of "national baptism" in tenth century, when in reality this was of course a political gesture, even with Pagan Reaction in XI century (killing clergy, restoring old places of worship, forcing Christian ruler to escape, the usual; btw, he came back some years later and enforced new rules again with the help of borrowed German warriors...but don't mention that to most vivid current worshippers, they also often don't like Germans, they get confused ;) ) and Christianity being mostly a facade even up to around XVII or XVIII century. A facade, but nonetheless with few crucial changes in officialy tolerated customs.

    You see, Pagan Slavs generally burned their dead. Leaving a body to slowly decompose was a big no-no. But it was one of essential things back then for Christianity. A very potent recipe for greatly elevated fears of dead returning to life that you mention (also because at the beginning it was actually widely realised they didn't get "proper" burial)

    PS. In a very twisted way, original poster has some point - religious circumstances helped greatly, perhaps it was even sometimes fear of the "old gods" ;p

    --
    One that hath name thou can not otter
  23. Common in early zombie movies, but we've moved on. by Valdrax · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Of all the examples he could have chosen, he chose zombies? In most films, if there is an explanation for their existence of the zombies in the film, it's usual mystical or related to disease or something (as the writer cedes).

    Mystical elements were big in early films featuring zombies, but "Night of the Living Dead" has thrust the zombie apocalypse genre firmly into the sci-fi horror camp ever since. You generally don't see masses of zombie hordes bringing an end to civilization in mystical zombie films because that kind of zombie is rarely self-propogating, and a true zombie apocalypse requires that.

    Ever since "Night of the Living Dead," the causes of zombie horror have mostly been either due to scientific experiments gone wrong or due to disasters caused by the march of science and technology. Let's look at a few:

    • Night of the Living Dead - Radiation from an exploded space probe.
    • Dawn of the Dead - No one knows the source of the plague, but the impotence of science to do anything is part of the collapse of authority.
    • Day of the Dead - The protagonists are a military/scientific team trying to reverse the plague from the above film. The head of the lab is a classic amoral scientist.
    • Hell of the Living Dead - Leak of a chemical actually intended to turn people in third-world countries into zombies to have them eat each other.
    • Night of the Comet - Weird space comet turns people who see it to dust or into zombies. Scientists were aware of the coming problem and are trying to find a solution.
    • Revenge of the Living Dead series - A fictional synthetic sounding gas called "Trioxin." Series features military cover ups, evil corporations, and in one of its worst sequels drug abuse.
    • Braindead - Disease-carrying animal brought back from the jungle to a zoo. A well-intentioned idiot keeps the initial zombies under control with injections.
    • Zombi 2 - Like the last movie, the plague is exposed to the world thanks to a researcher sticking his nose into unexplored territory.
    • 28 Days Later - Not about full zombies, but the origin of the apocalyptic plague is a man-made virus escaped from a research lab -- thanks to animal rights activists, a double-whammy for people the public doesn't trust.
    • Resident Evil series - Biological weapon experiments by a pharmaceutical company run by madmen out to trigger the next stage of human evolution.
    • Dead Rising - Central American research facility intended to research a way to mass-produce cattle instead engineers wasps that can implant zombifying parasites. (Boy if that isn't an abuse of grant money, I don't know what is!)
    • House of the Dead - While there's a lot of tarot themes, the source of the outbreak is a mad biologist funded by an evil corporation.

    Anyway, this list isn't comprehensive, but I'd say that in most movies either: (a) the plague is the result of scientists' actions usually on behalf of the military or an evil corporation, or (b) the cause for the outbreak is a natural disaster / unexplained and a part of the background of the movie is the inability of those in power (including scientists) to do anything about the situation.

    Unexplained plagues are becoming far more common in the past two decades as the zombie apocalypse has become and established genre, and movie-goers don't really feel a need for an explanation for the setup. After all, these stories are really about the collapse of civilization, a more bloody version of Lord of the Flies.

    Science being dangerous isn't all that important to the genre anymore, just like the Godzilla films stopped being about atomic horror long, long ago and started being more about cool giant monsters duking it out over a city. It's important to genre in the 60s-90s, but it's not such a big deal anymore.

    --
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  24. Ugh. by Valdrax · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It seems that Anne Rice and Stephanie Meyer [...] disagree, and they seem to have good chunk of the popular imagination in the United States.

    Yes, because modern takes on ancient legends are incredibly valuable for telling us how they originated and why they seem to have been so pervasive across culture before the advent of modern communications technology.

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    1. Re:Ugh. by maxume · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ugh all you want, 'zeitgeist' is the topic of discussion.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  25. Re:Way to over-analyze, Forbes by hairyfeet · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Actually it isn't so much the media pushing the "metrosexual" crap, it comes down to birth control pills of all things. Just look at the "macho he man" types that were popular before the pill, like Kirk Douglas, and how after the pill became popular you had the sudden rise of the 'pretty boy" types like Tab Hunter.

    The pill changes a females taste in men, the media was simply giving the female what she wanted, even if they didn't know at the time why they wanted that particular type. The article I linked to explains on the chemistry level, but I have seen plenty that have shown that depending on whether she is on the pill or not will skew which males in pictures she finds attractive. A woman who doesn't take the pill will like the classic "macho he man" types, whereas a woman on the pill goes for the Brad Pitt "soft boy" types.

    I have witnessed this IRL with the way my GF doesn't understand how her friends can like all these "little boys" like Orlando Bloom but will practically drool over "tough hombres" Sam Elliot and Viggo Mortensen in LoTR, but only when he was looking "all scrappy and hot", her words. She of course isn't on birth control and all her friends are, so it gave me a good chance to observe and yeah, it really does change their tastes as far as men go.

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  26. What???? No. Sorry. Just, No. by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Along with nuclear waste and mysterious space-borne radiation, pandemic plagues have also spawned zombies. This zombie type has become the dominant movie form over the last few decades, no doubt a reaction to AIDS, Ebola, cloning, genetically modified foods and the remainder of the brave new world of biotechnology.

    I have to take a moment to totally disagree with this assessment. --As many have already pointed out, bio-tech gone wrong (or whatever) is just the McGuffin used to get the story rolling. You can't have zombies without some sort of half-baked explanation at the outset. Nobody cares what it is really, so long as it isn't entirely implausible. In this case, the monster is definitely the Thing, (Ha Ha. Pun intended.), and the reason we are, as a culture, so fascinated with Zombies is based on, as per usual, the rumbling proto-awareness bubbling up from our subconscious. --Because we can't quite get a fix on the source of threat with our conscious awareness, the Deep parts of ourselves step in, conjuring up images for us to contemplate until we figure out the enormous stress vector we've thus far failed to recognize in the world around us, but which is trying its damnedest to consume us.

    And if you'll notice, there is another trend in film and television which is closely related to Zombies. . .

    Dollhouse (Programmable people.)
    Terminator Salvation (Programmable robot people which think they're real.)
    Moon (Programmable clone people.)
    Surrogates (Remote controlled robot people.)
    Gamer (Remote controlled real people.)
    Avatar (Remote controlled alien people.)

    I'd also add a few others such as. . ,
    Dexter (Dangerous fake people who don't think like us.)
    V (People which look like us but are really noxious alien lizards.)

    See the trend? I sure do. Everything looks peaceful, but our cultural subconscious is screaming.

    All in all, plain old Zombies are far less disturbing because they're mindless. The idea of somebody else controlling zombies raises the skill level beyond simple shotgun solutions. I'd wager that the reason our world is such a mess is precisely because we've utterly failed to deal properly with the problem of fake evil people, and worse, the fact that regular folks are so very easy to turn into fake evil people. This is upsetting, and it's the reason, I think, behind the whole Zombie thing.

    -FL

  27. A cigar is ALWAYS a cigar, what is a cigar? by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While rather amusing (I don't think he was fully serious, I hope), the truth is, you can see whatever as a metaphor/representation/whatever of anything you want, but at the end of the day, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

    Rather amusing? You're assuming that just because the crowd believes what it is instructed to believe, that it must be true. --Which always works out for the best. (Sarcasm)

    Actually, your leftist student was very close to the truth. Many of DC's Superheros are fixated on catching bank-robbers and otherwise protecting the established power structures and property wealth. --Unless you've noticed, the banks today are the villains in all the news stories, (unless, of course you happen to be a millionaire republican TV commentator, in which case it's the poor and ill-educated who are to blame). Given that the banks create the entire money supply out of thin air through fractional reserve lending and then have the gall to charge interest on top of that, (interest which is not actually possible to pay back as a society since the only supply of money is the bank system itself), the actual intent was always slavery and social control. It was by no means accidental. --And there's no argument I've heard yet (and I've heard a lot of them) which can logically defend the history of this system unless the argument out and out declares that people deserve to be treated like livestock and that the already-wealthy should be at the top of this sick food chain.

    If Bruce Wayne was such a genius, he would have taken out the elites instead of beating up on the poor and neglected, which setting aside the Joker, is exactly what he does. I put it down not to his being evil, but to his writers being naive child-men.

    Left or right, that's the truth of it. So yeah, a cigar may be just a cigar, except in this case, few seem to understand what a cigar actually is.

    Superman is an even bigger dummy. At least in Frank Miller's work, Batman was partially aware that the government was self-serving and untrustworthy.

    -FL

  28. Re: the perfect movie idea by bar-agent · · Score: 2, Funny

    Pirate zombies versus ninja mummies.

    That would be epic.

    (Zombies are too messy to be good ninjas.)

    --
    i'd hit it so hard, if you pulled me out you'd be the king of britain [bash.org]
  29. The zombies represent the audience. by for(;;); · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Have you ever seen Romero's batshit film Knightriders? It was his first big studio film. It's about a traveling jousting troupe that rides motorcycles instead of horses. (It's also a fucking disaster of a movie -- watch The Crazies if you want more good early Romero.)

    Anyway, these biker-jousters live noble lives, going from town to town to perform these great honorable jousting acts. And what are their audiences like? Brainless, artless, drunken idiots; people who live with no purpose, no ethics, and no honor. The people in the biker-jousting shows are zombies.

    This, I claim, cracks the code of Romero's zombie metaphors. In Night and Dawn, the living survivors holed up in the house/mall represent Romero himself and his film crew -- people attempting to be aware of their own existences, and attempting to bring meaning to their lives, and generally trying to live fully. We, the audience, vicariously live by watching their movies; we live by feasting on their ideas. We're the zombies.

    --

    "Whatever happened to fair use?"
    -- Duff-Man