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Murderer With "Aggression Genes" Gets Reduced Sentence

Noiser writes "New Scientist reports: 'In 2007, Abdelmalek Bayout admitted to stabbing and killing a man and received a sentence of 9 years and 2 months. An appeal court judge in Trieste, Italy, cut Bayout's sentence by a year after finding out he has gene variants linked to aggression.'"

17 of 507 comments (clear)

  1. Where's the... by Malc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... personal responsibility? Controlling our behaviour is one of the things that differentiates us from animals.

    1. Re:Where's the... by CecilPL · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes. I hold both these beliefs. The justice system is not about blame, it's about keeping criminals safe from society and (in my mind) rehabilitating them.

      You would never blame a computer for a programmer's error, but you would try to fix the bugs, and if there was a dangerous bug you couldn't fix you wouldn't use that computer.

    2. Re:Where's the... by DahGhostfacedFiddlah · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Is personal responsibility compatible with atheism?

      Maybe not. That's not just an atheistic question though - it goes right to the basis of free will.

      However, we can accept for the sake of argument that we're all just clockwork beings with no more control of our destiny than a computer program. My programming is telling me that if I am going to continue to achieve my primary objectives (shorthanded as "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness"), then dangers to those primary objects (including violent criminals) must be neutralized. This guy's genes may be an excuse, and an explanation for his actions. However, that certainly doesn't make him any less dangerous.

      The only way I'd want him to get less time on the basis of his "aggressive genes" is if he were to undergo a chemical or genetic treatment that reduces the effects of those genes.

    3. Re:Where's the... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Personal responsibility is a pure fiction in a deterministic universe.

      Except that quantum mechanics implies that we are not in a deterministic universe. Replay the same actions twice and you won't necessarily get the same outcome.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    4. Re:Where's the... by sjames · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Doesn't that make the punitive aspects of the prison system (which have not been demonstrated to serve any rehabilitative goal) unconscionable?

    5. Re:Where's the... by hannson · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How about extending the sentence? Given his gene pool he's likely to kill again. See, this door opens both ways.

    6. Re:Where's the... by causality · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And before someone else points it out, yes I meant "keeping society safe from criminals". First cup of coffee, yadda yadda.

      If this really is genetic, wouldn't that be an argument for the death penalty as a method of selecting against that gene? Seems to me that giving such a light sentence is counterproductive here, if in fact it is genetic.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    7. Re:Where's the... by SomeKDEUser · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I hold similar beliefs, and to me, the punitive aspects of prison should only be as required to a) be a deterrence, b) serve as a lesson (as in you have to feel punished so you understand what you did is bad) and c) symbolically represent atonement to society. the latter part is really necessary because then the criminal can feel they deserved their punishment and got better from it, but also have the society consider someone who has finished his sentence as a new person.

      Unfortunately, too many people feel that legal punishment is a means to avenge the victim. This is cruel, wasteful and essentially inefficient. Demand punishments as light as possible to deter: this will empty prisons, be less costly, and make for a more balanced society.

    8. Re:Where's the... by ceoyoyo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Agreed. Anyone who mounts a "my genes made me do it" defence should realize that their genes are, for now, immutable and so they are effectively claiming that they cannot be successfully rehabilitated and must be monitored or otherwise controlled for the rest of their lives.

  2. Backwards? by Sefert · · Score: 5, Insightful

    By that logic, isn't he more dangerous, and therefore should get a longer sentence? (Until a gene therapy solution comes out, anyway).

    1. Re:Backwards? by slim · · Score: 5, Insightful

      By that logic, isn't he more dangerous, and therefore should get a longer sentence?

      Only if the purpose of imprisonment is to keep dangerous people off the street.

      Finding a consensus on the purpose of imprisonment is pretty much impossible.

    2. Re:Backwards? by slim · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're confusing your own conviction, with a consensus.

      Truly, there is no consensus, and there probably never will be.

  3. Backwards? by rotide · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Seems a little bit backwards there.

    If I'm actually genetically predisposed to violence, keeping me in society might not be the best course of action.

    Seems to me, those that are _not_ predisposed to violence have a better chance of rehabilitating than those that aren't. Shouldn't they need less time in the slammer to rehabilitate?

    Predisposed to violence = more time in?

    Not Predisposed = less time in?

  4. Ah... do you smell that? by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's the smell of free will going out the window, courtesy of people thinking that gene==unable to overcome that impulse. And with free will out the window, there's no liability. And with no liability... well, the court system we have is completely unworkable.

    I was wondering when that issue was going to crop up. Thankfully, Italy seems bound to test just how much of a disaster that road will be.

    The only solution to this is to ignore genetic predisposition when judging a convicted criminal.

    Or, to put it differently: we have no choice but to believe in free will. Our society depends on it.

    --
    Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
  5. Why can it only be one? by crmarvin42 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Prisons serve all three roles. Their existance is ment to be a deterrent to those that have not broken the law, punishment for those that have already broken the law, and protection of the rest of society from those who've demonstrated a willingness to break the law. The nature of the crime will effect to what extent the sentencing is intended to act as a punshment or protective role.

    Sentencing of Blue and White colar criminals are going to be aimed at punishment and a warning to others that may be tempted to perpetrate similar acts (embezlement, breaking and entering, etc.). The ancillary effects of incarceration (loss of job, being ostrasized by friends/family, difficulty finding a job post incarceration) are as much part of the punishement as the actuall time spent in prison.

    The sentencing of violent offenders is going to be targeted more at punishing the perpetrator and protecting the innocent. That's why they tend to have longer sentences and are locked up in higher security facilities than their blue collar compatriots. Rehabilitation is more important, but less successful with certain groups of violent criminals and thus they serve longer sentences and are occationally euthanized by the state (depending on where they are incarcerated).

    The death penalty is the ultimate in both punishment of the criminal and protection of society, and IMO not to be used lightly. It should never be used for those that have not proven themselves to be violently dangerous to the rest of society (ie tax fraud doesn't deserve a needle, but repeated homocides does).

    --
    Bureaucracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.-Oscar Wilde
  6. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  7. Re:I get your point by be951 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yeah I mean, really, don't we want to do the opposite? Logically, isn't someone with an "aggression gene" probably going to be more likely to be a repeat offender?