China Bans Physical Punishment For Net Addicts

gimmebeer writes to tell us that months after a teen was beaten to death in an Internet boot camp, China has banned the use of physical punishment to help teens kick their net addiction. "The death of 15-year-old Deng Senshan, just hours after he checked into an Internet bootcamp in the southwestern Guangxi region in early August, caused a media storm in China. Days later, another teenager, Pu Liang, was taken to hospital with water in the lungs and kidney failure after a similar attack in Sichuan Province. The government in July had already banned electroshock therapy as a treatment for Internet addiction, after media reports about a controversial psychiatrist who administered electric currents to nearly 3,000 teenagers. The latest guidelines suggest officials in Beijing do not think that those with unhealthy Internet habits should be forced offline permanently."

Comments

Wow, that's impressive

[pclminion]

Wow, so you banned beatings for ONE class of prisoners. What a step forward China.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[timeOday]

Wow, so you banned beatings for ONE class of prisoners. What a step forward China.

Nice spin. What this is, is regulations on treatments requested by parents, akin to Outward Bound in the US.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[palegray.net]

The parent should not be modded "flamebait." If this is how people who have been determined to suffer from an addiction to the Internet are treated, imagine what must be happening to those diagnosed with more "serious" addictions to other vices. Add in gross human rights violations against those accused of actual crimes, and the situation begins to look very grim.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[Darkness404]

A prisoner is defined as:

a person who is confined; especially a prisoner of war

lets see here, the kids A) Didn't choose to come on their free will B) Can't leave when they choose C) Are mentally stable and can make their own decisions and D) are being held against their will. I would call them prisoners.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[wizardforce]

It's better news than hearing that China decided to just shoot them in the head instead. It's true China is extremely bad when it comes to maintaining human rights but really this kind of "treatment" needed to be banned.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[palegray.net]

Prison rape is absolutely nothing to laugh at, nor did my response include any verbiage saying that.

Your reply is a commonly used and rather disingenuous ploy to misdirect attention from the topic being discussed. I could easily rephrase it as "but bad things happen in other parts of the world, so this doesn't matter!" Such silly attacks on the U.S. contribute nothing to attempts at addressing the matter at hand.

Try living in China for a year. Try living in the United States for a year. While the U.S. certainly has its own problems, I'd love to hear your report on how awful things are here compared to China.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[interkin3tic]

Wow, so you banned beatings for ONE class of prisoners. What a step forward China.

Change takes time. If they keep the rate of one ban on beating certian types of prisoners, they won't have any more beatings in just three short years!

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[Anonymous Coward]

Certainly there are more kids who come out of these places saying it helped them than who die, but obviously 1 death is too many.

[citation needed]

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[palegray.net]

It's better news than hearing that China decided to just shoot them in the head instead.

The larger problem is the fact that efforts by journalists in China to report on such events typically results in said journalists being arrested or simply disappearing.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[NeutronCowboy]

Yes. In this case, one is government sanctioned, the other is illegal. One has no recourse, the other has (theoretically) the recourse of a criminal proceeding.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[Anonymous Coward]

Life in china is fine. You obviously haven't been there, and are regurgitating the western media's constant drum of negativity. They only show the bad parts of china, just like in (pick some random country that hates the united states)'s media only shows the bad part of the US. WAKE UP PEOPLE, the world is changing, you can adapt (), or you can bitch and become a tired, bitter and defeated.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[palegray.net]

I'll believe what you're saying as soon as I can verify it with independent media reports from a free press in China. I'm not holding my breath.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[palegray.net]

I can run with that line of reasoning, and wholeheartedly agree that abusive behavior if frequently viewed as "funny" by people around the world. I should have added the observation that U.S. citizens aren't alone in making fun of really sad situations, and shouldn't be singled out as such.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[dontmakemethink]

Not to mention violations against those wrongfully convicted...

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[dontmakemethink]

Prison rape is not sanctioned by the US National Institute of Corrections. We're talking about China's human rights violations that are 100% government sanctioned. Makes you wonder what happens between prisoners when they turn a blind eye.

It's also painfully ironic that they punish "internet addicts" at all. With so much repression going on, who'd want to go outside?

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[khallow]

Life in china is fine.

As long as you haven't been imprisoned for being addicted to the internet.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[LordLimecat]

Im not quite sure that i would call Outward Bound "treatment", or that i would compare it to electroshock therapy.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[Jeeeb]

They're not prisoners. These are not state run institutions. Parents send their kids to these institutions voluntarily. Now obviously there is a problem with violence in these 'camps' and the government has stepped in to regulate. How exactly is it that you manage to fault the government (I'm assuming when you say China you're not referring to the entire nation) for this?

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[Anonymous Coward]

Or attempt the free practice of religion or speech.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[schon]

A) Didn't choose to come on their free will B) Can't leave when they choose C) Are mentally stable and can make their own decisions and D) are being held against their will.

By your intrepretation a toddler put in a crib is also a prisoner.

Methinks you skipped some of the criteria there.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[Anonymous Coward]

Certainly, I think anyone would say life in the United States is superior, the standard of living is just generally higher in the US.

The 'internet addicts' are sent to these camps by their parents, not the government. These are privately run camps. It's not like the government is rounding these children up and shipping them off to addiction camps.

As for life in China, I think you would find it quite livable provided that you have a decent source of income, and assuming that you don't do things to annoy the government.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[Mr. Freeman]

"By your interpretation a toddler put in a crib is also a prisoner. "

NO! They're not. You clearly didn't bother to actually didn't read his post, did you?
You missed the first line of his post: "C) Are mentally stable and can make their own decisions"
Toddlers are not mentally stable and can't make their own rational decisions, which is exactly what he was referring to.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[palegray.net]

I have several friends from China, and have heard first-hand accounts of the oppression at play there. Visiting China does not give an accurate impression of what it's like to live under the thumb of a regime that doesn't respect free spech, freedom of the press, etc. Foreign nationals who "make trouble" for the Chinese government are routinely asked politely to leave. Of those who decide not to comply, they are removed by force, also known as being escorted out by armed agents. In some cases, they are arrested and confined until their home country can arrange for a quiet release.

I am quite familiar with the methods employed by the Chinese government to paint a pretty picture of the nation for tourists, and I'm not fooled. Let's have a look at the number of people emigrating to the U.S. from China, and contrast it with the number of people moving in the opposite direction.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[ozmanjusri]

Try living in the United States for a year. While the U.S. certainly has its own problems, I'd love to hear your report on how awful things are here compared to China.

Your experiences would depend a lot on your choice of recreational activities, though you're almost an order of magnitude more likely to end up in a US prison.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_pri_per_cap-crime-prisoners-per-capita

Still, I expect if you're wealthy enough, both would be pretty comfortable. It's normally only people on the fringes who suffer.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[mysidia]

C) Are mentally stable and can make their own decisions

Without an objective criteria for mental stability, that's a real hard one to avoid the ''captors'' satisfying.

They can claim that someone demonstrated to have an internet addition is unstable and can't make good decisions.

For example, if they choose to leave, they will be satisfying their addiction in a way that harms them, negatively impacts their social life, etc.

Further, their mental stability may be questioned on the basis of them spending 30 hours a week online, instead of going out with RL friends.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[timeOday]

No, minors are not legally entitled to make their own decisions. Legally, it is their parents' right to send them to the camps.

You'll notice two contradictory sentiments on slashdot: 1) parents are responsible for everything their kids do and leaving it up to technology or laws is reprehensible, and 2) parents are wrong for doing anything to their kids because someday they'll have to make their own decisions.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[mysidia]

Realistically.. what can be done about prison rape.. throw the perpetrator in jail? oh wait...

Personally, I think prisons should be required to monitor 24/7 for such activities, video surveillance over every nook and cranny, and isolate prisoners at all times when not directly supervised: no 'visiting' other prisoners' cells, no case at any time whatsoever that multiple prisoners are in the same cell: no unsupervised groups, period.

Criminals by the very definition require that isolation and supervision, they are an unstable lot and cannot be trusted

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[palegray.net]

I'll readily admit that my country does have a knack for locking people up for non-violent drug offenses. Unfortunately, an absurdly large percentage of the nation's prison population is in the clink for convictions of that nature.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[Dan541]

A toddler does not fit C

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[Jeeeb]

The 1980's called it wants its stereotype back. Seriously TFS and TFA both talked about the media's role in reporting this and encouraging the authorities to do something about it. No mysterious disappearances or anything. All we have here is privately run camps running amok and the government stepping in to regulate after it becomes widely reported in the media.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[SanityInAnarchy]

I think you're exaggerating a bit. Here's where they aren't contradictory:

Parents are responsible for raising their kids. It is reprehensible to try to replace this with laws or technology. It can be assisted with rules, to a point -- for instance, kids can't get into R-rated movies alone. But this can too easily make parents lazy ("T for Teen? Well, I guess it's ok.") or remove their ability to make decisions, like effectively banning kids from seeing certain things, regardless of what their parents want.

My main objections with technology are simply that, like any other form of censorship, if they want to see it, they'll see it, and the act of trying to censor it only makes it that much more appealing. Once they get to the age where this becomes an issue, the solution isn't an arms race, but to sit down and explain to them why you feel the way you do about whatever you're blocking, and then unblock it, and let them make the choice.

None of this contradicts the moderate version of the second point, which is that you have to at least start letting your kids make their own decisions -- if you keep a tight enough reign until that 18th birthday, they'll probably rebel once they legally can.

That, and it isn't as if everything magically changes at 18. If they're an immature brat at 17, they probably will be at 19. If they're mature at 15 or 16, why not treat them like an adult?

These aren't contradictory, except in that extreme example. But they're based on the same idea -- the parent's job is to raise the kid to be a responsible adult.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[jellyfrog]

When was it that the chinese forced their own youth to fight wars on foreign soil, for ideological reasons alone?

Surely for ideological reasons is better than for, say, money....? What other reasons are there (killing dictators probably counts as ideology)? But it's probably true that the US is a hell-hole, much like everywhere else.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[Hognoxious]

When you say visit China you mean to go to one of the big cities and stay in a 5 star hotel conveniently close to a Starbucks and a McDonald's?

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[superyanthrax]

If Americans were REALLY interested in the welfare of Chinese people, they'd allow free trade with China. Oh wait, oops, this will cause American manufacturing to completely collapse. Can't do that then.

News flash, people in China don't care about "human rights" nearly as much as how well off they are economically. As long as you use "human rights" as the stick in your left hand while the protectionism/economic imperialism stick in your right hand is waving menacingly nobody will listen to your propaganda about "human rights", especially in China. It is clear that you are simply trying to render our country impoverished and we won't take it unlike in the past. We aren't even bringing up how hypocritical the Americans are with their "human rights" promoting as they undermine elections and prop up brutal dictators because it suits their interests.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[bogjobber]

If Americans were REALLY interested in the welfare of Chinese people, they'd allow free trade with China. Oh wait, oops, this will cause American manufacturing to completely collapse. Can't do that then.

The US doesn't have free trade with China? What planet do you live on? We definitely have our trade disputes and protectionism, but that runs both ways and is in no way specific to China. We have had similar tariff and trade disputes with every other country that is a major trading partner (easy examples being Japanese auto manufacturing and Canadian lumber).

As for the US attempting to make China impoverished, I can't even imagine the version of reality where you think this is happening. The trade relationship the United States and China have built since the cultural revolution is the single largest reason for the growth of the Chinese economy and economic progress of Chinese citizens. (I am not claiming the Americans are responsible for China's progress, just that we have been their most important economic partner for most of the last 30 years.)

You have a completely misinformed view of the Sino-American relationship. I suggest you take a second look at the situation.

And all of this is completely irrelevant. China is not somehow excused from treating their citizens like animals because the US is protectionist or imperialist in its trade policies. They are separate issues. You are only aiding an oppressive government by shifting blame away to the "evil Americans." China's ongoing human rights violations are horrifying, and are rightfully reviled by the rest of the world.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[vegiVamp]

Is it in any way conceivable to your narrow mind that both premises may be possible *at once* in a nation of 1 billion ? Same as the US is generally good to live in for most citizens, but the state still commits atrocities like gitmo at times ?

Yes, there's things in China that shouldn't be - and likely more and worse than in your and my parts of the world, but for the majority of the 1 billion people, life is reasonably good. They'll get there, eventually, and so will you.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[vegiVamp]

You're quite right. "Knowing about it but not caring enough to bother doing something about it" is not the same as "being sanctioned".

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[pclminion]

You are fucking crazy. I don't give a crap whether it's China, Uganda, the United States or Greenland. Beating people in custody is not okay.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[AnotherUsername]

If America actually STOPPED its free trade with China, China's economy would collapse(If Walmart alone left China, it would cause a collapse). China undervalues its currency, has little in the way of worker's rights, and does everything in its power to undermine every other country's economy so that China will be seen as the new great economic power.

Your country IS impoverished. When your 'absolute poverty' is less than $90(US) per year, and almost 10% of the population is below that line, yes, your country is in poverty. Include the fact that China receives over $1 billion per year in foreign aid(the kind of foreign aid which is given to impoverished nations, by the way).

Your country DOES have human rights violations. Whether it is the famous Tiananmen Square incident in 1989, or the censorship that still occurs today, or the fact that during the 2008 Olympics entire regions were practically cut off from power and water so that the numerous fountains could operate around the clock and so that the massive light shows could go off without a hitch. Nevermind that people were without power and water for months leading up to the Olympics. But hey, at least China looked good. Human rights take a backseat to China looking good on television. The fact that people were arrested and sentenced to re-education camps simply for applying for a protest permit(2 elderly women, by the way), a reporter was arrested for covering a pro-Tibet protest, and most people could not access human rights websites, as well as the fact that out of all the protest permits applied for, all but 3 were 'withdrawn', 2 were suspended, and 1 was denied.

Your country NEEDS to be kicked out of free trade agreements until it can learn how to operate more fairly in the world's economy. Note, this is simply my opinion, and since I come from a country that doesn't limit free speech, I can say it without fear of police breaking in my door and dragging me off in the middle of night, sent to a 're-education camp,' and deposited back in my house weeks/months/years later, properly re-educated.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[arekusu_ou]

mentally stable...they're addicts, they aren't mental stable. I'd compare some game addicts to the practical functionality outside of games, to mental retardation. There were people who wouldn't shower, go to work, go to classes, sometimes get food, due to gaming addictions.

mentally stable would not be my first choice of words for them. Nor is porn addiction if it costs you your job either.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[arekusu_ou]

Wow a government that asks "trouble makers" trying to destroy their country to leave their country...shocking really.

I'm so glad we invite domestic and foreign terrorists to destroy everything America holds dear, makes me feel safer knowing terrorist's freedom isn't being hindered.

Granted, China is incredibly strict, like the difference between a parent who beats their child with a belt for misbehaving and a hippie parent with no rules and let their kids run amok. Who's to say which parenting style is better and which parenting style is forbidden?

BOFH who lock their networks down like a jail in hopes of making it secure.

And "mental patients dying from extreme treatment". Not sure how those treatments were suppose to help but America had their share of problems in mental health care. One flew over a cuckoo nest was a good Academy winning movie and book.

Look I'm not saying everything in China is great, or the middle East. But they don't like others, young countries, coming in telling them what to do any more then you would like the government to come into your home and tell you how to raise your children. The Chinese people WORSHIPPED Mao Zedong and Westerners hate his ideals. It's a different culture.

Re:Wow, that's impressive

[palegray.net]

I'm so glad we invite domestic and foreign terrorists to destroy everything America holds dear, makes me feel safer knowing terrorist's freedom isn't being hindered.

You lost any shred of credibility you might have had by attempting to compare journalists to terrorists. Good job.

Physical Punishment

[NoYob]

Is that the translation of the euphemism they use in China for masturbation?

So, the Chinese are banning beating off to porn or something?

No, I haven' read the article yet. Why do you ask?

Re:Physical Punishment

[PDX]

Say goodbye to the internet BD/SM crowd in China.

suddenoutbreakofcommonsense

[Darkness404]

Isn't it common sense to most sane people that physical punishment is bad for most things except for perhaps hardened criminals? Especially for something as vague as "internet addiction" that might not even exist.

Re:suddenoutbreakofcommonsense

[Anonymous Coward]

And you think physical punishment is a good thing for "hardened" criminals? How is that common sense? You're just setting the bar slightly higher, you're just as bad as they are.

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

[Anonymous Coward]

Or at least in this case you have a choice.

You get a life or you lose your life.

Re:Ironic

[Rockoon]

Even though the second bullet has pierced over halfway through your brain, you appreciate that its now exiting rapidly more than you do the first bullet that missed you entirely but is now (unfortunately?) motionless?

Re:STFU if you're an American!

[pclminion]

No. Fuck you. I speak out against this sort of torture and abuse no matter who commits it, or who it is committed against. Apparently, you think it's okay.

Keepin' the Chinaman down!!

[freedomseven]

Progressive measures like this are the things that keep innovation down. They don't understand why you need to be on the internet so much so they decide you are sick, deamonize the "illness", and take steps to cure you. Thanks guys. We need you guys on the side line so that we can catch back up.

Re:Keepin' the Chinaman down!!

[Frosty Piss]

They don't understand why you need to be on the internet so much so they decide you are sick, deamonize the "illness", and take steps to cure you.

They don't understand why I need my medicine (comes in 40 ounce bottles, you know), and are taking actions to "cure" me.

Re:Keepin' the Chinaman down!!

[Vegeta99]

Not even close, dood. I'm not going to kill a family of 4 if I crash my computer because I'm on the damn net too much.

Great strides are being made

[GringoChapin]

It's nice to see that China is slowly but surely entering the 18th century. You can do it guys!

Re:Great strides are being made

[TheLink]

There have been definite improvements in the past two decades or so (OK so Mao took them backwards a huge bit). So most of the people in China will just put up with it - they are getting richer. Many of them are rabidly proud of their country.

Car analogy: they're stuck in the car and the CCP is driving, the scenery is crap, but getting better and they look like they're getting somewhere[1] (and quite fast too by some standards). So most will stick around for the ride, grumble a bit ("are we there yet?"), but not really care that they can't change the driver. A few will even be singing nationalistic songs of their own free will, and there'll be a bunch who'd get off ASAP and go to some other country.

[1] For example, their ambitious push for more nuclear power stations, which should reduce pollution significantly:

quote: "The country may build about 22 reactors in the five years ending 2010 and 132 units thereafter,"

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=a2lUkzmYNGWI
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-08/05/content_8967806.htm

In contrast I'm not sure when my own country (Malaysia) will significantly reduce its dependence on fossil fuels (without screwing up projects massively) - they don't seem to be good at getting things done and instead are fond of coming up with really stupid ideas.

Re:STFU if you're an American!

[e9th]

I agree. Outsourcing is just plain wrong.

I read this as....

[russ1337]

"The death of 15-year-old Jake Simpson, just hours after he checked into an Copyright bootcamp in the southwestern Californian region in early August, caused a media storm in the USA. Days later, another teenager, Paul Schmitt, was taken to hospital with water in the lungs and kidney failure after a similar attack in Seattle. The government in July had already banned electroshock therapy as a treatment for Copyright Infringers, after media reports about a controversial RIAA psychiatrist who administered electric currents to nearly 3,000 teenagers. The latest guidelines suggest officials in Washington do not think that those with unhealthy copyright habits should be forced offline permanently."

Re:I read this as....

[RedBear]

Parent should be modded insightful, not funny. If things go in the wrong direction this is exactly the sort of thing we could be reading in the papers in just about any country in a few years.

Re:I read this as....

[vegiVamp]

I was more thinking of Jesus Camp, but yeah.

Re:STFU if you're an American!

[FlyingSquidStudios]

Apparently, some people still don't understand this whole 'representative democracy' thing. Many Americans- millions- never supported and never will support torture. We didn't vote for those who did, we didn't support their policies and some of us would even like to see them do prison time for them.

Wrong source?

[BoppreH]

Electroshock therapy for Internet addiction? Are you sure this isn't from The Onion?

Re:Wrong source?

[CannonballHead]

apparently not

Why don't they go all the way?

[HalAtWork]

Why don't they go all the way and ban physical punishment? Is there any good reason to punish someone that way? Does it even help rehabilitate those who "require punishment"? Physically restraining someone is required to make someone submit if they are acting violent themselves, but that's different than physical punishment.

Re:Why don't they go all the way?

[khallow]

Punishment isn't about rehabilitation. It is about making sure criminals suffer some publicly so that victims don't take the law into their own hands. It's not about revenge, but a ritual "paying of dues" so that victims are placated and actual revenge doesn't occur.

Re:Why don't they go all the way?

[khallow]

You're welcome. Thinking about this, punishment is really an ancient thing. I think it came about in early governments because everyone was coming from a clan/tribal system with some variant of clan-based revenge as the default law system. I suspect harsh, prompt punishment was considered the most important priority by those in power. It kept most people from disrupting the society. Fairness and consistency in the punishment rendered would have come later when hypocrisy and favoritism became serious enough problems to threaten the whole system.

The concept of rehabilitation seems fairly recent. And there are at least two valid (IMHO) schools of thought supporting it. Namely, the social justice point of view that sees criminals mostly as people who didn't get a fair chance at life and made bad choices. They deserve a second chance and perhaps even more chances, depending on the situation. And the economic point of view that sees a bunch of productive people holed up in jail for destructive acts rather than contributing to a healthy society.

I guess my thinking is that there is a sort of hierarchy of needs that a system of law and law enforcement fulfills. In an advanced society we tend to concern ourselves with high level issues like rehabilitation and education, but it's worth remembering that the lower level needs still must be addressed.

Re:Why don't they go all the way?

[stephanruby]

Punishment is about protection, reparations, rehabilitation, and vindication, yes, but it's not just about those. It's also about deterrence -- a show of power -- a show of force for both sides involved, plus anyone else who gets to see it or hear about it.

But Wait

[Tablizer]

I'll take the damned punishment if they just give me the 'net back

Re:Ironic

[Anonymous Coward]

In China they take half the powder out of the bullet when they shoot you in the head. The bullet just swirls around inside your skull and no exit wound = less mess to clean up.

If you ask me all governments do fucked up things. In the case of China killing kids for spending too much time online is just one out of a very impressivly long list.

How to freak them out

[Anonymous Coward]

As proposed earlier: Give gaming addicts a computer, where they can start whichever game they want, however where all the games only play themselves.

That should teach them, and after about a week of staring at the screen they might just start to do other things a slight bit at a time.

Re:How to freak them out

[Wobble-U]

Isn't that like watching sport on TV? I'm sure some people do that too often too...

Re:How to freak them out

[koxkoxkox]

Do you know on Korea you can watch Starcraft games on TV ? With excited commentators and all ? Didn't know a word of Korean but that was fun anyway.

Re:How to freak them out

[HBI]

I want to know what the Hangul is for "Zerg rush".

Re:How to freak them out

[Hognoxious]

There was something like that in the UK, but it didn't catch on and only ran for a season or two.

Back to phychoterror then...

[Hurricane78]

...because in the eyes of the uneducated masses, that is still seen as "not real" and "just imaginary hurting". Despite modern neurology having proven, that the brain literally can't distinguish between those types of pains. (So a broken heart really actually hurts! And hurting you feelings creates real actual physical pain.)
Also, it is much harder to heal a fucked up mind, that a fucked up body. (From what is seen as "equally bad".)

But hey: It's invisible, so it can't be real. Any don't be a pussy anyway! Stop crying! He didn't beat you. It's just words. Right??

Welcome to the dark ages. You never left them.

Re:Back to phychoterror then...

[rdnetto]

I would argue that without physical punishment, psychological warfare isn't as bad. Don't get me wrong, it's still abhorrent, but once it's purely psychological it becomes possible for some individuals to resist it, and it's also a lot harder to implement since you need a decent understanding of the individual for it to be truly effective against them.

Keep in mind...

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing in China is illegal or immoral; until caught that its. Rest assure some other form of abuse will be invented in its place until its application results in death (again.) Then another, and another. Rinse and repeat. Never underestimate the creativity of the human mind to formulate new forms of torture to be inflicted on fellow human beings, nor its ability to following letters of laws while raping the intend of the law.

It might work

[Snaller]

After all the only way to "win" the "war" on drugs - is to start punishing those who DO drugs - not the ones selling it.

Re:STFU if you're an American!

[buchner.johannes]

There is a difference between not supporting torture (maybe even tolerating it, since it is "just against the bad guys") and being against torture. You only describe the further.

Also, the European understanding is that capital/corporal punishment is against the human rights. Which makes the US not necessarily shine (although not comparable to China of course). That is one major reason why Governor Schwarzenegger got huge criticism from the county where he was born (he adjusted to the US view and did not object to the death penalty).

Re:Ironic

[GigsVT]

If you shoot someone in the head with a pistol round, the bullet doesn't make it all the way through ever.

Really, a rifle round never makes it all the way through either, what's coming out the other side is usually just fragments and a lot of bloody pulp.

these camps

[euyis]

The real nature of these camps:

Parents take the children (not always children, at least in one case it's an adult - university student) to the camps, with force or deception, pay the camp owner money and leave. No questions asked - they don't care whether the "patients" are really "net addicted" or not. Then the victims are stuck here, beaten and drugged by the drillmasters every day. Most of them are runied forever when they leave (alive).

So it's basically a way for the parents to get rid of their problematic children, without trying to solve the real problem behind - survey indicates that most "net-addicted" children's parents have bad habits, e.g. addiction to gambling, and don't care what does the child think.

Re:these camps

[MichaelSmith]

In don't understand why parents would do that, given that each family is only going to have one child anyway.

Re:these camps

[shirotakaaki]

Because they have their own vices and could give a shit about that one even if its the only one?

Re:these camps

[RedBear]

Although the behavior of all people on Earth is superficially similar, many cultures such as the Asians have decidedly different attitudes toward children than we do in the US. In Asian cultures the family name comes before the individual's name, emphasizing the fact that the individual is less important than the family. Any member of a family that causes the family to "lose face", or become dishonored in the eyes of others, is seen as a liability to the family. Protecting the family name is often put before the desire to protect one's offspring. It's really only a matter of degree.

The attitude we have in the US to the importance of children is actually abnormal compared to a large percentage of the rest of the world. In parts of Africa there are some truly horrible things done to children by their own parents. Due to lack of resources, there is a strange phenomena where the youngest child is often suddenly accused of witchcraft and either murdered or cast out on the street and usually drummed out of town, never to be allowed to return. Usually the accuser is the mother (although often a step-parent, not biological parent of the accused child). Africa is far from the only place where such things happen to children.

The universality of "humanity" as defined by the unconditional love and protection of children is vastly overestimated. If you don't believe what I've described because you can't imagine feeling that way toward children, well, you need to do more research. Unmodified human nature is really a lot uglier than most people realize.

Re:these camps

[MichaelSmith]

many cultures such as the Asians have decidedly different attitudes toward children than we do in the US.

True to a point. My wife is a third generation Malaysian of Cantonese origin. Her families attitudes towards children are pretty much in line with those you would find in a western country. One exception is about divorce. The children always go with the mother. In one case where a mother in my wife's family died the children went to the mothers parents and never saw their father again, which I find a bit weird.

A woman I met from Hong Kong told me that when she moved out of home at the age of 18 her parents pretty much said only call if you are really in trouble. Otherwise...don't..

The differences may come down to R/K_selection_theory but in China where you only get to have one child I expected everybody to be K Strategists.

Re:these camps

[RedBear]

In the places in China where parents are likely to send their children to one of these types of camps, we are usually talking about a large concentrated population. I doubt the people in such areas feel any particular need to maintain the local population growth since the local population is already straining the carrying capacity of the area. In the many outlying village areas of China which are still mostly low density agriculture-based communities, I'm sure the mentality toward protecting children is decidedly different. However, the importance in Asian cultures of family honor or social ranking even in such low population areas should not be underestimated.

Even looking toward other western countries the US is still the odd man out in terms of our treatment of children. Sure, they are all protective of their children, but if you closely compare their daily interactions with children most countries don't come anywhere close to the almost worshipful attitude that is so common with Americans. Callousness and casual forms of cruelty are very prevalent in many other countries. Many consider the American attitude unhealthy, actually, and hold up American youth as evidence that sparing the rod really does spoil the child.

Because so many Americans think of children as irreplaceable perfect gifts from God that must be protected at all costs, it is hard to imagine how easy it is for many other cultures to discard children without even thinking about it. Ever wonder why you only see bloated, starving babies and very young children on those TV shows about Ethiopian starvation? It's because the father and the older children always get fed before the youngest, so the youngest child starves. The aid workers are constantly faced with the problem of trying to explain to the mothers that they need to feed the youngest child first if they don't want it to die. Too often, the mental disconnect that allows this behavior in the parents in the first place means the mothers simply cannot put two and two together, and the child ends up dying.

Human nature, and the human brain, is a very strange, very complex thing. Once you study it objectively for long enough, you will never be surprised by even the most atrocious and bizarre human behavior. After all, we are still just relatives of the chimpanzee who happen to be better at using tools and communicating.

One thing you may notice however (which makes all anecdotal evidence worthless in terms of exposing actual human nature) is that the more educated families tend to gravitate more toward the western type philosophy of caring for children. Therefore anyone who was well-off enough to somehow travel to the US from any country for any reason will naturally be more similar to us than different. It's only the anthropologists who take the time to study other cultures in their native environments that have been able to document the true range of human behaviors in the treatment of children. Assuming that the behavior of other cultures will make some sort of logical sense is usually the first mistake.

Re:Ironic

[El Torico]

If you shoot someone in the head with a pistol round, the bullet doesn't make it all the way through ever.

There are some very potent pistol rounds (.44 magnum,.45 ACP, .50 AE, .454 Casull, et al.) Usually, there's a much bigger hole going out than going in, regardless of fragment size.
This could be a test for MythBusters.

Re:Ironic

[Arancaytar]

I nominate this exchange for Worst Analogy Ever.

Re:Ironic

[mysidia]

Better analogy...

China: You were shot in the head 20 years ago... every few years, the doctor is working on the bullet a little more, taking another piece out safely. You can't leave the bed until every bit is removed.

The US: You haven't quite been shot yet.. you are strapped down to a table, fully restrained, the gun is above your head, at the other end of a tube also strapped to your head, the trigger was pulled 20 years ago.

The bullet is inching down a few centimeters every year.

It's only a matter of time before it hits you... one year was the Sonny Bono copyright extension act... next year was the DMCA... pirate act of 2004... next year was the broadcast flag......

The bullet is coming towards you.. they've put you on just enough tranquilizers to keep you from moving, you're fully conscious of your fate, and there are lots of people in the room, but they've all got iPod earbuds or plugs in their ears, so they can't hear your screams..

So which one's worse?

Painful punishment can be non-physical too

[mysidia]

They haven't ruled out punishments like sending someone to pwn kids' level 80 Rogue in PK. Imposing cash fines/property seizure type penalties.

Or (oh no) use firewalls to block access from their network to World of Warcraft, Facebook, Wikipedia, Youtube, etc, while instead forcing kids to watch the chinese equivalent to Don't copy that floppy II and similar propaganda.

Some pretty severe punishments can be non-physical in nature.

The Real WTF...

[jellyfrog]

...is that physical punishments are apparently acceptable everywhere except in internet addiction camps now.

girlfriends

[OrangeTide]

Why not find the teenagers a compatible partner and force them to date? Seems simpler than electroshock to kick the internet habit.

At start-ups and on open source projects I know it's the kiss of death for the project when key developers get girlfriends. I can only assume it's the same for MMORPGs.

Re:girlfriends

[reverendbeer]

They don't know how. (from http://www.slate.com/id/2234600/) BEIJING—The first time Hu Jing tried to have sex with her college boyfriend, there was a technical difficulty. "We knew we had to use a condom," she said. "But we didn't know how." Faced with this conundrum, Hu and her boyfriend went looking for answers—he from his more experienced friends, she from the university library, where she combed through Dream of the Red Chamber, a literary classic from the Qing Dynasty. The following week, they reconvened for a second try. This time, they managed to roll on the condom but then well, where was the penis supposed to go? It took another week of research before they succeeded in doing the deed. [/i]

Re:Ironic

[bogjobber]

I hate US copyright law as much as anyone, but comparing the DMCA and broadcast flag to the torture and murder of addicts is absurd.

China sucks,

[nawitus]

but U.S. also has "boot camps" for troubled youth, and children die in these camps too.

We have always had this kind of regulations

[justkeeper]

The family planning law of China also explicitly banned forced abortions, however, bureaucrats of the planning commissions in many places just ignore it, and denied the existence of such regulations to meet the quotas.

Re:Ironic

[bmr91]

I'm pretty sure that a bullet traveling a few centimeters per year won't be doing too much damage. And even if all of those people still had earbuds on they could still SEE you screaming.

So, actually, I would say that your analogy is much, much worse.

Re:Ironic

[rvw]

And I'm still confused. Why couldn't they just go with a car analogy?

You mean they should shoot a car at your head, and then see what's coming out?

what's wrong with a kiss, boy?

[OrangeTide]

What's wrong with a kiss, boy? Hmm? Why not start her off with a nice kiss? ... You don't have to go leaping straight for the clitoris like a bull at a gate. Give her a kiss, boy.

Know what you're talking about.

[samsamsamj]

I understand this may not be the right place to ask people to think critically about issues, but at least I wish people know what they're talking about, not what they think or imagine the issue is.

The following is the so-called "draft guideline" in Chinese, which was published to call for public comments:

http://www.gov.cn/gzdt/2009-11/05/content_1456838.htm

The Chinese government is doing its job trying to regulate the treatment just days after the critical incidents and this is more formal policy draft. The title would be more appropriate to say: Chinese government propose to ban... What's so wrong about it?

I know for a fact thousands of American gay youth are still being checked into similar boot camps to rid of the gayness in them. When would the US Ministry of Health take a stand on the issue instead of hiding behind the religious freedom principle?