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Landmark Health Insurance Bill Passes House
theodp writes "A hastily-crafted amendment imposing tough new restrictions on abortion coverage in insurance policies helped pave the way for the House to approve the Democrats' bill to overhaul the nation's health insurance system. 'It provides coverage for 96 percent of Americans,' said Rep. John Dingell. Rep. Candice Miller disagreed, calling the legislation 'a jobs-killing, tax-hiking, deficit-exploding' bill. The 1,990-page, $1.2 trillion legislation passed by a vote of 220-215 and moves on for Senate debate, which is expected to begin in several days."
Update — 11/08 at 13:45 GMT by SS: Changed vote totals above to reflect the actual bill vote. The 240-194 number was for the abortion restrictions amendment.
You have read all 2000 pages?
Who produces more for society: a factory worker who puts cars together, or an investor who makes money by short selling and dealing in derivatives? Now, who is more likely to afford a heart transplant?
Palm trees and 8
It doesn't affect premiums or anything
This continued blind faith in the existence of a free lunch is nothing short of astounding.
You're paying for it, somewhere.
If moderation could change anything, it would be illegal.
I applaud this move heartily and am glad to see America finally catch up with the rest of the developed, Western world. Forcing citizens to enter patronize particular corporate entities IS the way forward, and I'm glad Obama and the House can see that. Once the citizen realizes he has to give up a large portion of his ability to make selfish INDIVIDUAL choices and act in accordance with that of the leaders of his or her nations, can they develop into a more moral, self-actualized human being. I think this is also an indication that there is a shift towards America having less of this "me, me, me!" attitude and the country is starting to realize that freedom isn't individual greed, but something greater than they are--sacrifice and adherence to ones' governing body. A more moral human being is one that follows the edicts of the body that rules it. A good dog, after all, is not one that jumps the fence and goes where it pleases but one that runs to its master with leash in its mouth, wagging its tail.
Maybe the US will finally join the rest of the industrialized world ... instead of taking the, "find your own care" attitude
It's great, isn't it? I can't wait for Nancy Pelosi to also provide me with all of the food I need to exist, clothing, housing, and of course some politically correct entertainment when I feel the need, too. She's comfortable, this week, only taxing "millionaires" (as she dismissively calls them, which she will also call hundred-thousand-aires, next) and borrowing a crippling load of Chinese money against future generations in order to make sure that I can see a dermatologist because I'm too stupid not to walk through poison ivy, so why not do the same for all of the other services I want other people to provide for me? Obviously the "rest of the industrialized world" is facing no trouble whatsover funding huge Nanny State entitlement societies, and consider personal accountability to be old fashioned, so even more of that must be better, on every front.
The funny thing is that Pelosi's bill requires the continued activity of Old Fashioned, self-sufficient, risk-taking, business-starting/running Eeeeevil millionaires in order for it to work at all. Well, that and the threat of jail time and huge fines if you don't buy such services. To which end she will happily take someone else's money and give it to you so that you can avoid that federal legal jeopardy. Happily for her and her ilk, that will require an enormous, ever larger permanent layer of redistribution bureaucracy, enforcement agents to deal with evil healthy young people who don't buy in, and courts to deal with the consequences for not playing along.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Not bloody likely. At least, not with this bill. But thank you for the kind thoughts. Check in again a a decade or so, maybe we will have managed to drop to third world status by then and even Congress will realize that something drastic needs to be done.
Health care in this country is about the best in the world. What you're lamenting is that the government isn't providing a "free" system to everyone. Never mind that there is no such thing as "free" government anything, why exactly should the government provide this? Should they start handing out "free" cars next? How about more "free" government housing? As a poster above said, this blind faith in the existence of a free lunch is nothing short of astounding. Governments are instituted to protect the rights of individuals. Nothing more. Do you wish to say that "health care" is a "right"? If so, who will be compelled by law to provide this "right" to you?
I was raised on the command line, bitch
"Nemo me impune lacesset"
And yet, Keynsian economic model is the only one that works...
Except for every time Keynesian remedies have been tried, you mean?
The first great depression, the Japanese lost decade, the second great depression that we're heading into right now...
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
"A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism."
Dictator? Check, the President has been collecting more and more power since the 20th century. Stringent socioeconomic controls? Check. Supression of the opposition through terror and censorship? Check, look at white house taking on fox news. Belligerent Nationalism? Check.
2. Those on welfare tend to not look for a job. Why look for a job when the government sends you money and foodstamps? Why look for a job when you can join a gang or sell drugs? Welfare doesn't work, it encourages lazyness.
I was hoping up until this point that we could restore the republic without having to go through a collapse like the Soviets did. That hope is considerably smaller today.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
I used upper-case text because your reading comprehension apparently involves "stop reading once you see something you disagree with", and I wanted to make sure you saw the point.
Regarding the farmer, what an insipid question to ask. Since when did you have a right to eat farm produce?
Regarding the physicians, you're the free market guy here, right? Wouldn't you just assume that they'd be replaced by people willing to do the job?
I am scientifically inaccurate.
Still hungover from last night's party eh?
It's not about doctors, it is about forcing one group to pay for another group. Same old Bullshit from the Left. "Spreading the wealth around".
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
The only thing that's killing jobs in Michigan are the representatives who aren't doing anything about trying to create them.
If you believe that governments create jobs, you're part of the problem.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Until you run out of other peoples money.
What's in it? The destruction of freedom and liberty in America.
- There is language in the bill that once a certain time period is reached (2013 I believe), no one can purchase health insurance from a private insurance company. You have to buy into the government exchange.
- A government health plan (health exchange). Subsidies will be given to people who are deemed to not be able to "afford coverage." - Abortion was removed from federal funding in an attempt to appease centrists repubs and dems. As a libertarian I don't believe the government should be allowed to tell a woman what she can and can't do with her body. As a conservative, I see paying for an abortion as FAR less expensive than paying for 18 years of state and federal assistance.
- The much politicized end of life planning (death panels) are in the bill. Republicans, believe it to be consultation with elderly Americans to convince them not to pursue advanced (costly) medical treatment to extend their life; because they have already lived a long life. Democrats are less likely to get into the specific details. The bill itself provides text to describe what it is not (mercy killing) rather than what it is.
- The bill cuts $400 billion from Medicare over 10 years. Once you combine end of life planning (see above), the reason for "end of life planning" appears to be more aligned with the Republicans concept.
- If you don't have health insurance you must buy insurance from the government exchange or face a penalty.
What's not in the bill? Anything to actually control health care costs. Which I see as this:
- Tort reform. (limits and regulation on medical malpractice lawsuits)
- Buying health insurance across state lines.
- Increased payment by Medicare and Medicaid (currently, these plans are subsidized by everyone else with health insurance)
- Prescription drug reform. (I do not believe a drug should be sold in America for more than the cost in the rest of the world. Either Americans are subsidizing the drugs for the rest of the world, or we're being ripped off.)
Big deal if American's use Canadianit's as a "legal" alien. That doesn't stop hoards of American women from crossing the border to deliver their babies in Canada because it's free - and we Canadians have to pay for it. Looks like you guys will soon be getting the short end of the stick. Have fun.
What about those of us who don't want any coverage at all? (By choice)
Oh that's right. We get fined almost $3000. Funny how you conveniently forgot that part. Freedom of choice and individual liberty is effectively dead. Congress might as well rename itself Microsoft or Comcast, since they follow the same anti-choice modus operandi
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
"Look up how much campaign money they gave to Hillary and Obama."
Wow, are you a shill, or what.
How about the truth? Try it sometime.
The truth is: both the democrats and republicans take obscene amounts of money from the health industry.
You are under corporatism, not capitalism. Need a reading primer? I can supply.
>>>health care is a necessity
No it isn't. From the moment humans are born, their destiny is to spend eternity in a coffin. Healthcare is merely a way to postpone this ultimate end, not an ultimate cure.
Furthermore, while you have a right to smoke, or drink, or overeat, you do Not have a right to make your neighbors pay to replace you diseased lung, liver, or fat-clogged heart. You chose your lifestyle; now YOU should pay the cost, not hand the bill to your neighbors.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Wow, you must not read slashdot very much. Every time I hear mention of police force, its usually the dailyKOS slashdotters ranting and railing against the "oppressive" police officers.
No. Police, fire, and military are not "socialized", and have nothing to do with "socialism". Keep spreading the lies. these are "civic services" not "socialized" services. They do not provide a measure of "wealth" to any other man. These services ensure the maintenance of civil society. Universal, socialist, health care is not required for a civil society, as proven by the existence of our Republic for the past 200+ years.
But keep it up, your distortion of the truth is right out of the communist manifesto.
20th century Marxism is not progress...
The states did get together and write a fairly restrictive agreement called the constitution. Read Federalist 41. Madison clearly defines that the General Welfare clause does not give the Federal government unlimited authority to tax us for our own good. Passing even more ammendments is a BAD idea, as it gives the "living and breahting constitution" crowd even more room to fudge our society ever deeper into the progressive (read: marxist) utopia that they falsely believe is possible.
20th century Marxism is not progress...
I am so glad the people who bankrupted Social Security and Medicare will finally have their hands in everything to do with our health care. This bill doesn't lower prices, but only shifts the actual insurance from 1100 competing private companies to one big government bureaucracy. Each year, less and less doctors are accepting Medicaid and other government health insurances because their payments stink. Of course liberals don't seem to mind because doctors are all rich people anyway who can afford to work for low wages. Nevermind that they pay hundreds of thousands in malpractice insurance, rent, electric and other business expenses. Who cares about business anyways? It's only math and numbers! Truth is, all of that doesn't matter when people are sick. In fact, I heard that the laws of gravity cease to exist when people get sick. Seriously, it seems only the lawyers are allowed to charge $500/hr because democrats love litigation, especially litigation that brings down private companies so that ill-funded and high taxing government programs can step in. I feel all future doctors should be forced to spend 10 years in medical school, come out with hundreds of thousands in school loans and do this to get paid low wages because the government says so. That will give the future doctors of America something to look forward too! However, there is one way to remedy this. Make medical school only 1 year, this avoids a lot of the expensive school loans, but gives us tons of uneducated shitty doctors who will work for government pay. I'm sure liberals don't mind that as long as everyone is covered, right?
The next thing we should do is force pharmaceutical companies to lower prices for all drugs to 1 cent a pill. That's right! Where do these big pharm companies get their nerve spending billions on new life saving drugs and then charging us a dollar or more a pill so they can keep funding their research?? Why can't these people simply work for less money? In fact, the engineers and the construction workers who build the pharmaceutical buildings, the electric companies that power the research departments and the companies that supply all the medical testing equipment should all take a pay cut because these pills are just too important! All pills that can save lives should be free, and the people who helped develop those pills shouldn't complain. If they do, then throw them out and hire cheaper chemists and scientists. If that doesn't work, we can always unionise the chemists and scientists so that instead of making drugs, they can be sipping more coffee and can keep their job even if they suck at it . That'll fix these rich pharmaceutical bastards! Right??
I love the fact that the people who scared us into getting the H1N1 vaccination and then couldn't even deliver 1/8 of the vaccines it promised are now going to run our health care system. Of course, liberals love free things. They love when someone else has to pay for their problems and they certainly couldn't care less about quality as long as everyone gets something. Something is better than nothing, right?? It's better that all 300 million citizens end up with crap than $270 million end up with good health care. Who cares that no one has read all 2,000 pages of this bill? Who cares if good doctors can't make a living and are forced to find other lines of work? Who cares if Big Pharm can't create life saving drugs because they can't fund research? Who cares if taxes go way up? Just as long as we have Hope & Change. Because without Hope & Change there is no reason to go on living.
Welcome to socialism my friends. Enjoy. :-)
They aren't willing to say "This treatment costs too much for its expected return, and thus shouldn't be covered, even if it means someone will die sooner."
Actually that is in the bill.
Government bureaucrats will be tasked to call people over age 80, and advise them not to get certain expensive procedures, and instead allow nature to take its course. It's basically an extension of what bureaucrats are already doing in GI Hospitals. And in the UK's N.I.C.E. organization
FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
I don't run my own space program. Or my own race car circuit. Does that mean I'm not providing for me?
Absolutely. Unless you have found a way to avoid getting any benefit, direct or indirect, from those things (ever used a car?).
And as an aside, anyone and I do mean anyone who doesn't pay insurance is self-insured. In other words, they run their own health insurance company.
Not unless you actually have sufficient amount of money set aside for any possible medical emergency. And somehow made it certain that you will immediately die if those costs will be exceeded. Otherwise you will incur costs on the rest of society, and therefore are absolutely not "self-insured".
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Really? And what exactly do you think is the end game of the progressive movement? Your inability to see the obvious shows you have shutdown all rational thought.
20th century Marxism is not progress...