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Pirate Bay Shuts Down Tracker, Switches To Distributed Hash Table

think_nix writes "The Pirate Bay has shut down their BitTorrent tracker. Instead TPB is now using Distributed Hash Table to distribute the torrents. The Pirate Bay Blog states that DHT along with PEX (Peer Exchange) Technology is just as effective if not better for finding peers than a centralized service. The Local reports that shutting down the tracker and implementing DHT & PEX could be due to the latest court rulings in Sweden against 2 of TPB's owners, and may decide the outcome of the case."

45 of 327 comments (clear)

  1. Distributed Post! by Lissajous · · Score: 5, Funny

    F......

    1. Re:Distributed Post! by russlar · · Score: 5, Funny

      i........

      --
      Anybody want my mod points?
    2. Re:Distributed Post! by Rik+Sweeney · · Score: 5, Funny

      Seriously guys, can you PLEASE SEED!!!!

    3. Re:Distributed Post! by clambake · · Score: 5, Funny

      Crap, stuck at 99%!

    4. Re:Distributed Post! by clambake · · Score: 5, Funny

      R.......

    5. Re:Distributed Post! by Rigrig · · Score: 5, Funny

      ...s.

      --
      **TODO** [X] Steal someone elses sig.
    6. Re:Distributed Post! by sopssa · · Score: 5, Funny

      ....t.....

    7. Re:Distributed Post! by pHus10n · · Score: 4, Funny

      C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!

    8. Re:Distributed Post! by selven · · Score: 4, Funny

      C-C-C- COMBO BREA.......

    9. Re:Distributed Post! by sopssa · · Score: 5, Funny

      piece 443 failed hash check

    10. Re:Distributed Post! by Kryptonian+Jor-El · · Score: 5, Funny

      I"VE BEEN STUCK ON 98% FOR 3 DAYS!!!!!!1111!!!1!! SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED.

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    11. Re:Distributed Post! by gravis777 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Refreash your tracker list, I have been seeding for days. I think the tracker server may be overloaded with all these slashdot people hitting us. The original seeder should really have enabled DHT on this torrent.

    12. Re:Distributed Post! by ciderVisor · · Score: 3, Funny

      Goddamned leecher !

      --
      Squirrel!
    13. Re:Distributed Post! by TeknoHog · · Score: 3, Funny

      Checking hash... 420 Not Found

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  2. Does this mean TPB will still be working? by Kirin+Fenrir · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Proving that technology is always one step ahead of copyright law.

    --
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    1. Re:Does this mean TPB will still be working? by sakdoctor · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sure you can.
      The decentralized service doesn't have that central server weakness, so the best you can do is blast sacrificial individual users with law suits.

      After that, it's a case of mass disobedience vs prohibition laws, because people are not going to stop sharing any time soon.

    2. Re:Does this mean TPB will still be working? by SethJohnson · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Whereas the tobacco companies have lost several huge lawsuits, I don't recall any magazines getting sued for running ads for cancer-causing products.

      Seth

    3. Re:Does this mean TPB will still be working? by Mathinker · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > where people post advertisements on where to buy drugs.

      X% of which are for legal OTC drugs sold in drugstores and 100-X% of which are for illegal drugs. You're probably right that if X is small enough, the legal system will rule against the site. But if X is large enough, probably not.

      All this is academic in the case of TPB, because of the "in your face" way they reacted to takedown requests. Nothing will save them.

      However, a site which is polite, officially bars illegal torrents, but errs in favor of accuracy vs. efficiency about reacting to takedown requests could very well replace TPB in functionality while making it a lot harder for the courts to effectively deal with them.

    4. Re:Does this mean TPB will still be working? by DangerFace · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I personally wouldn't demonize TPB. While this kind of sharing isn't the nicest thing, if the companies who are being effected had been decent about their cost structure people wouldn't have resorted to this in the first place.

      To be honest, I'm starting to see the whole argument about filesharing redundant. If the cost structure was fairer I would most certainly spend more money on it. However, if I walked into a shop and bought everything I had downloaded over the last year, say, we end up with this:

      ~1 000 albums, at £15 each = £15 000 (assuming cheap albums balance out rare items - I know for a fact the market value of some of my Nina Simone stuff would be in the hundreds of pounds, but I'm choosing to assume that they are outliers and can be ignored)

      ~250 films, at £10 each = £2 500

      ~50 full seasons of TV shows, at £20 each = £1 000

      TV shows as and when they come out in their country of origin = a little over £1 000

      ~30 games, at £35 each = £1 050

      Adding up to a grand total of £19 550 ($32 851.38). So assuming I didn't have to pay rent or bills, buy food, or have any way of watching this stuff / listening to this music / playing these games, I'd still need a significantly increased household income. And I haven't really listened to / watched / played loads of that stuff, I just like being able to think "I want to watch x genre" and having it there, and when someone comes round and I discover they've never seen WarGames, come on, I need to be able to show them...

      The point being, I spend most of my disposable income on media of various sorts, but that doesn't mean I can afford everything I want - and if I can have it, why not? No one would be getting my money if I didn't 'steal' it, so the only person losing out would be me. The whole argument has been rendered redundant in my case by me not having a huge pile of cash to hand over in the first place. The RIAA/MPAA/whoever can take me to court for however many millions of dollars if they want - they'll get a lower percentage of my income awarded to them than I hand over voluntarily.

      tl;dr: my girlfriend gets annoyed at how much I spend on media, when I should pay bills, and I still pirate more than 95% of the stuff I own. Meh.

    5. Re:Does this mean TPB will still be working? by Voyager529 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      There are several. First and most realistically, Google has a whole lot more money to spend in court than TPB does. Second, also from a completely practical standpoint, I'm sure that the number of judges/juries who have use Google are orders of magnitude above the number that have used Pirate Bay, so familiarity is on Google's side. Third, Google has complied with legal takedown notices, whereas Pirate Bay has basically said "go walk the plank". Google has shown good faith when asked to, while Pirate Bay has not. Fourth is a little common sense: Google indexes a huge amount of stuff online, and if there are pirated materials available online, then by nature, some will end up on Google. While Pirate Bay might also host game patches, linux distros, Creative Commons licensed artwork, and other legal materials, when their search cloud shows people searching for theatrical releases, Top 100 music, and Adobe Photoshop (i.e. stuff that's obviously copyrighted), it's going to be a rough day for the lawyer who's defending Pirate Bay. Finally, there was/is a community on TPB that helped "cleanse" "bad releases" and/or help highlight "good releases", while Google has no such community in place specifically for pirated material.

      To further the GP's example, no one is going to press charges on you because you have a phone book which happens to include a few drug dealers in it (it's a statistical inevitability). Any jury would laugh that out of court. On the other hand, if you've got a little black book which is largely filled with drug dealers, even if you also have some of your friends' numbers in there, if half the people in your black book get arrested, you're going to have a pretty lousy day in court if your only defense is "it's just a list of phone numbers, who doesn't have one of those?" - the DA's response will be "yes, I do. To get into MY phone book, you have to be a family member, close friend, or business contact. 96% of the people in your Rolodex are known drug dealers, Mister Anderson, and I've got a dozen witnesses saying that they got the numbers of everyone else we've arrested from you. How do you explain that?"

      I'm no fan of the RIAA by ANY means, nor am I entirely convinced that TPB deserves to be sued out of existence from a legal standpoint. I am saying that they are among the biggest public torrent trackers, made it no secret that they had warez/music/movies for download, and not only did they refuse to comply with the copyright holders, but they were very well known for replying to takedown notices with public replies that usually amounted to "go shove it". Outside of Google being the biggest search engine, they have very little in common.

  3. Those guys are playing it dangerous! Hashtable? by NoYob · · Score: 5, Funny

    First "Pirate Bay" and torrents and now Hash?!? What next, cocaine?!

    --
    It's NOT me! It's the meds! I'm on 1000mg of Fukitol.
  4. Still guilty by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So they go from hosting a tracker to hosting a bootstrap node that gives clients access to the DHT swarm? In short, in the eyes of the law (and probably of the general public), they're still facilitating the illegal distribution of copyrighted material. At the very least, they look guilty as hell, because they seem to do try their hardest to stick it up to da man.

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    1. Re:Still guilty by thisnamestoolong · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Hold on there, hoss. It's not that simple -- if we were to define our terms that simply, then ski mask manufacturers would be facilitating the illegal procurement of liquor store cash register contents. The law needs to operate on very black and white terms, and things like the Pirate Bay are operating in very new, and very gray, legal territory. I am nowhere near enough of an expert to comment on how this will specifically affect the legal standing of the Pirate Bay, but I will say that such sites operate on a knife edge of legality -- and any case the legal system can possibly raise against them will depend on an extremely specific set of conditions. If not, Google would be every bit as guilty as the Pirate Bay (as would every single ISP on the planet). What this means is that if the Pirate Bay sufficiently distances itself from the actual illegal activity, then there is no way they can be legitimately prosecuted. We saw the same thing happen with Kazaa (where the industry types decided to go after individual users instead).

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    2. Re:Still guilty by hitnrunrambler · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Still guilty (Score:2)

      by Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) on Tuesday November 17, @09:01AM (#30128264)

      So they go from hosting a tracker to hosting a bootstrap node that gives clients access to the DHT swarm? In short, in the eyes of the law (and probably of the general public), they're still facilitating the illegal distribution of copyrighted material. At the very least, they look guilty as hell, because they seem to do try their hardest to stick it up to da man.

      Don't you mean:
      "Boss, I know them Duke Boy Pirates is guilty! They've gone from bootlegging trackers to bootlegging bootstraps. In the eyes of the law (and flash) they are facily-tatin' the illegal distribution of moonshine. At the very least, they look guilty as hell, with them outlaw haircuts and that fancy car."

    3. Re:Still guilty by purpledinoz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Then aren't ALL ISPs also facilitating copyright infringement? Isn't Cisco providing the network technology for copyright infringement? Isn't Intel providing the ability for consumers to download illegal material from the Internet? Isn't AMAT, a semiconductor tool manufacturer, guilty of providing Intel with the tools to make microchips for copyright infringement?

    4. Re:Still guilty by BarMonger · · Score: 3, Informative

      ..at least not in Scandinavia..

      What do you mean by that? You are aware that "Scandinavia" is actually three different countries with three different sets of laws, right?
      Here in Denmark we do not have the same laws as the Swedes do. And since Norway isn't even a member of the EU, some parts of Danish and Swedish law is very different than Norwegian law.

    5. Re:Still guilty by Xest · · Score: 5, Informative

      The real problem is that under standard interpretation of Swedish law they weren't in breach of the law in the first place. The only reason they have been found guilty is because of a corrupt judge who made up a false interpretation of the law to suit his goals and to find them guilty.

      So on one hand this view that they're in breach of the law is incorrect as it falsely assues judges are infallible, which of course we know full well they are not, but similarly I don't think this will be much help because as the creative industries got away with installing their own judge once and ensuring his position and stance was upheld (even though he did not follow Swedish law as it is written) and so realistically they'll just be able to do it again.

      Effectively, for the TPB guys the law doesn't matter, because whether they stay within it or not a corrupt court system is allowing them to be found guilty regardless. If anything I'd say that they have done this because it's possibly harder to shut down and perhaps easier to move around than a full blown tracker. I don't really blame them for just playing a game of cat and mouse instead, if their own country has failed them in initially allowing an unwarranted police raid due to foreign pressure, then not giving them a fair trial by allowing a judge with a blatant conflict of interest to preside of their trial, and then protect the judge when they follow the proper process for handling such conflict of interest- again, all because of pressure from foreign corporate interests, then I think it's perfectly justified for them to shun the law.

      I'm sure they're also perfectly aware of the consequences, some call this stupid, but then, that's the difference between people willing to risk their freedom for something they believe in and people who just whinge about things on sites like Slashdot I suppose.

    6. Re:Still guilty by Cyner · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Didn't the US Government directly fund the development of the global file sharing network?

      --
      FreeBSD.org - The power to serve
    7. Re:Still guilty by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's unfortunate that the quote I want to make right now ("The tree of Liberty...") comes from a founder of the very country which put such pressure on the Swedish government.

      I suppose the great always have further to fall.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    8. Re:Still guilty by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The real problem is that under standard interpretation of Swedish law they weren't in breach of the law in the first place.

      How do you know? Because they've told you so? Are you a Swedish lawyer qualified to judge that they were in the right, and the judge in their case ruled wrongly? (personally, I do not consider myself qualified for that; any arguments that I may advance on this are purely my own views)

    9. Re:Still guilty by cfalcon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Jefferson WAS a lawbreaker. He participated in a revolution. And the copyright in the constitution was designed to expire- unlike the one we have today, which is unconstitutional.

  5. Peer ants by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Pirates are like ants and always find a way around obstacles and tend to attract more pirates to use the same path.
    Removing a single tracker, no matter how widely used it was won't deal much harm. This may lead to the removal of other trackers in the future, but peer exhange and DHT are pretty much a good subsitute in my opinion.

    1. Re:Peer ants by dkleinsc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In other words, the Internet is seeing copyright enforcement as damage and automatically routing around it.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  6. Old news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    As far as I know, the tracker has not been shut down but merely moved to OpenBitTorrent. There are various posts on SuprBay confirming that fact. The (PirateBay) trackers themselves were shut down since august and OpenBittorrent is now the official tracker. I remember reading another post where someone did some research and ran a few traces, which confirmed (at the time) that the trackers were running on the same IP address. Here is another post worth reading.

    As for OpenBitTorrent, it has been 404-ing since I tried to open that website. However a google cache exists as early as November 14th. On the cached page it is explained that the tracker operates solely on the info hash and thus knows absolutely nothing about the contents itself. Presumably in an attempt to elude copyright cops. Adding new torrents to that tracker is as simple as adding the tracker address to your newly created .torrent file. The tracker will automatically start tracking the info hash when an announce is made.

  7. And the hydra... by Taibhsear · · Score: 3, Insightful

    grows yet another head. Good luck trying to keep up, MAFIAA.

  8. If DHT and PEX are by mehrotra.akash · · Score: 5, Insightful

    " just as effective if not better for finding peers", then why did they wait for the ruling to change over?
    why not just switch over a long time back??
    especially if they are better..

  9. Re:In a related question by sopssa · · Score: 4, Informative

    Magnet link is an URI, your browser is supposed to send it to it directly.

    It's interesting that TPB takes this stance now when it has become too expensive and hard to keep their trackers working, and while having legal issues shot against them from everywhere. DHT and PEX have been around for years with no significant improvements. This isn't a change because "the technology is ready now", but because the ship is sinking.

  10. Napster et al court cases... by nweaver · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One of the reasons why BitTorrent didn't suffer the legal fate of Napster, Kazaa, etc is that BitTorrent only handles data transfer, not search, and has significant noninfringing uses.

    Having trackerless torrents however doesn't help the noninfringing uses, only infringing uses. (If its non-infringing, just host a tracker damnit!), thus trackerless client features start to get very dangerous from a legal perspective for the developers.

    --
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    1. Re:Napster et al court cases... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Having trackerless torrents however doesn't help the noninfringing uses, only infringing uses. (If its non-infringing, just host a tracker damnit!)

      Why?

      If there's a way to make legal distribution more robust and able to tolerate problems (e.g. slashdotting) on your node, why wouldn't you want to use it?

      If the advantages of decentralization are irrelevant, then you don't need bittorrent (tracker or not) for non-infringing use. Just host a ftpd dammit!

      The MAFIAA is supposedly out to fight piracy, but it's not like the MAFIAA is the only entity in the universe that has ever tried to interfere with information distribution. Nor are people who try to interfere with information distribution, the only thing that ever causes failures. People are going to want reliable data transfer regardless of whether or not some people happen to want reliability for copyright-infringing purposes.

      TPB is going down for piracy, but the fact that it can be shut down at all, overshadows the relatively minor piracy issue. If force can be used against trackers, then everyone (pirates, other governments, Falun Gong, Operation Clambake, Voice of America, you, and me) benefits from trackerless torrents. The pirates-vs-MAFIAA battle is unimportant and uninteresting, except perhaps as a technology driver and microcosm-scale stage. However that turns out, people are always going to need freedom from governments, other bullies, and even "natural" phenomena ("oops the server's down, because a court ordered it / because the admin fucked up and installed some malware / because apparently I tripped over an ethernet cable as I was leaving the building and can't drive back there until tomorrow / because the power went out / because an asteroid hit that city").

      Look at any historical record of computer problems, and "shutdown by the MAFIAA for piracy" is a relatively rare explanation. Question: What do you do about the other 99.99999% of cases? Answer #1: learn from your mistakes and don't let the problem happen again. Answer #2: learn from your mistake and make a single node failure not matter. I guess I know which basket you put all your eggs in.

  11. Re:In a related question by Galactic+Dominator · · Score: 5, Informative

    Of course this is in response to the legal situation, but DHT is a better method provided users get their clients configured correctly and ports forwarded. Your comment implies they are switching to an inferior technology which is certainly not the case. It's far more fault tolerant and less prone to bottlenecks, it simply requires more from the user. As more sites switch to this method, swarms will increase in size and throughput with less liability for all. I'm glad this finally happened.

    Congrats, you've successively cut off a head from the hydra.

    --
    brandelf -t FreeBSD /brain
  12. Still confused by SgtChaireBourne · · Score: 4, Informative

    It looks like someone is still confused there about copyright treaties like the Berne Convention.

    It is perfectly legal to download and re-distribute the copyrighted material when the copyright owner gives permission. MPAA, RIAA, Disney / Microsoft don't want that discussed. And when formerly copyrighted material has its copyright revoked, either by the rights holder or by the passage of time. For example, the early Elvis recordings are now in the public domain in many countries because the copyright on that particular edition has expired.

    Further, in some countries, fair use extends to copies for personal use. So while it may give you the warm and fuzzies to Repeat After Bill his every word, consider that the Internet is a global network and not just limited to your block.

    What is likely at the heart of the matter is the issue of whether decentralized communications networks shall be allowed by control-freaks in various companies or their subservient governments. If it's not centralized, it's hard to track or censor.

    --
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  13. Re:"Just as effective"? by Zerth · · Score: 3, Informative

    You may need to greatly reduce the length of time an entry is in your router's NAT table. Some badly-configured routers will keep an entry for a whole day.

    Also, as others have said, reduce the number of connections in your client, but that won't necessarily help if your node is popular, because denied connections still count.

  14. Re:Let's apply some p2p logic to this. by Asmor · · Score: 3, Funny

    Funny. P2P reacts to pressure and changes, porn is frequently on the cutting edge, but traditional media just sticks its fingers in its ears and chants "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

  15. Re:In a related question by Reziac · · Score: 3, Funny

    Any port in a swarm....

    --
    ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  16. Re:In a related question by sopssa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Is it illegal to download a list of instructions on which chunks to use ( and in what order ) to create a copyrighted work from your family photos? :)

    That's just the same old "but it's just random 0 and 1 on my hdd, it's not the movie, it just happens to have the same order in bytes!". No matter how you try to circumvent laws with stupid technical jargon, if it's clear you are or your intention is to violate copyright laws, you wont get far with such jargon.