Slashdot Mirror
Vulgar Comment On Newspaper Site Costs Man His Job
DeeFresh writes "ReadWriteWeb has an article up today discussing an incident in which a school employee lost his job after leaving a comment on the website of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch newspaper. After the school employee responded to the newspaper's poll of 'the strangest thing you've ever eaten' with a feline-inspired vulgarity, Kurt Greenbaum, the site's director of social media, tracked down the commenter's identity through his IP address and reported him to school officials. When confronted, the school employee resigned from his job."
And yet Greenbaum seems to show no remorse...
Asshole.
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
How bored was this guy? He worked at a newspaper and decided 'Hey, I don't like that comment, let me track down who it is, where he works, and report him?' What is this, the second grade? There are two real options, delete it as being offensive or leave it. Maybe a third option if it was a threat of some kind, which you could report to authorities. But really?
I will shred my adversaries. Pull their eyes out just enough to turn them towards their mewing, mutilated faces. Illyria
Not only that, but he's a fucking hypocrite. He called this guy's employer up with the goal of having him fired, and when cornered over the issue said:
"Yeah, you caught me! I made him log on to his computer at work, visit STLtoday.com's Talk of the Day, read the item, type a vulgarity and hit the "submit" key.
Interesting perspective. Thanks for your contribution.
Oh, I didn't say he was fired. I said he resigned.
"A vulgarity"? You mean the word pussy? OMFG WHAT WOULD JESUS THINK IF HE SAW THAT WORD? Guess what? People have sex.
P.S. Forced to resign is much the same thing as being fired, especially since in this day and age he could probably have been sued for sexual harassment over such a comment, thus completely ending any future employability.
Using the word 'pussy' on school time is simply not that bad. Of course, I can't attach these comments to the article itself, because comments are disabled there now even though the story is only three days old. Perhaps that's because most of the comments go something like this:
YOU are the director of social media? tools to be leveraged to get businesses closer to their customers?
what an awful story and it's even more embarassing that you squawk about it after the fact.
Kurt Greenbaum is scum, and I will do my best to avoid their website in the future.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Kurt Greenbaum should be ashamed. There is no place whatsoever for that kind of behavior in America.
Somebody simply wanted to freely express himself, and Kurt interfered. Absolutely pathetic.
Wow! I'd say that Greenbaum should be reprimanded for not performing his duties. I wonder where - in the St. Louis Dispatch policies - it states for employees to track down the ip address of those making offensive (but not illegal) posts and then contact the work.
OTOH, why the heck did the teacher resign at first being contacted? I wonder how much more there is to the story than we're seeing.
Lesson learned: When making anonymous posts, use either a proxy, an anonymous posting service (COTSE.NET), someone's open WiFi connection, or a friend's computer.
The Kai's Semi-Updated Website Thingy
We reserve the right in our sole discretion, but do not assume any obligation, to refuse to post, remove, or edit any messages or postings sent to the Site.
We reserve the right to suspend or terminate your access to and use of this Site if, in our view, your conduct fails to meet any of our guidelines. We also reserve the right to change these terms at any time.
Well, fire Greenbaum. STLtoday.com didn't reserve the right for him to track people down and harass them through their employer, nor did he use the agreed upon remedies outlined in the terms of service. I guess even the editors don't read those things.
"Common sense will be the death of us all"
Still on the site is the story of how some guy killed and ate a cat (is that even legal?), but that is ofc fine, however the guy posting an innuendo obviously went too far!
IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
Nah; I don't need to sully any of that. He resigned (we obviously do not have all of the information, because I honestly doubt that the conversation went "you said pussy twice!" and the guy went "GAH oh noes I quit! D:") because "concerned citizen" noticed that this was coming from a local school IP address. Now, this could have two variations: if it was an elementary school, it would seem strange. If it was either a middle or high school, well, it could have easily been from any student who felt like trolling.
So, Mr. concerned citizen forwarded a message along the lines of "this e-mail address from your IP address said "pussy" twice on my website". If it had been any student e-mail, that would be the end of it because the teachers just do not have student e-mail addresses on file (usually). If it had been the headmasters e-mail address, Mr. concerned citizen would have been duly ignored.
And then Mr. concerned citizen writes an article celebrating his ability to turn someone in for saying "pussy" twice. It's slightly difficult (and disturbing) to believe that Mr. concerned citizen had the local school IP address memorized to the point where a brief glance at the e-mail alert tipped him off that this was a serious issue.
It will be a delight to see if this becomes a normal thing. You know, adults posting on a not-child oriented website and being punished for using naughty words. I'm sure the teacher wasn't on a lunch break, or wasn't waiting for 1200 copies to print, or wasn't waiting for his students to finish a test, etc. Almost as atrocious as someone replying to slashdot on the clock, with their employers computer assets.
But maybe I just find the idea of being tracked to your job by a hypersensitive journalist a little off putting. Suppose he decides that he should moderate out disagreeable posts? He's well within his rights to do so, as a moderator.
I just find it ridiculous that the adults have greater difficulty coping with foul language than the kids. Seriously, it's a word. Delete it and warn him if you really feel threatened by it; you don't contact the organization it came from. How comical it would have been if he had called them instead..."Hello Mr. Rumples, I have a serious issue to address. You see, someone from within your school said pussy....twice. On the internet."
I agree. This isn't some Orwell-inspired conspiracy to silence freedom of expression, this is a valid objection to the use of equipment in an educational institution being used inappropriately. Yes, censorship and coalescing of power in the hands of the government/corporate complex is a huge problem faced by the general population of western nations, but lets identify the problem rather than burning down the house to kill the termites. I don't agree with the idea that social taboo as a means of behavioral regulation is a bad thing. Telling teachers to behave in a manner that highlights to children how we would like the future generation to conduct themselves is not OMG CENSORSHIP, it's the process by which tribal savages become productive farmers, who become orderly towns people who become civilized nations. Take a walk out to the streets in a large city these days, and the behavior you'll see makes the marauding Vikings look positively gentlemanly.
The outcry about this really highlights in my mind the fact that society today has decided that finding common morality is a bit too hard to bother, and apathetically defaulted to a state of total moral disintegration. It's not censorship to think that civilized people should act, well, civilized. To all of you who think that it's some kind of social repression to frown upon people who make a habbit of unashamedly expressing themselves in a vulgar and crass manner, I suggest you go see the movie Idiocracy, because it's about YOU.
I hate printers.
"Now I can't way to see the juvenile posters making this a case of libertarian freedom of speech"
- And who can blame them after your juvenile post blathering about "being on the clock". Jeez, wake up and realize that nitpicking about being on the clock was never the point of this discussion. The point was why the hell was that asshole tracking commenters down? What kind of a dickhead reports someone for posting on the very message board that he left open for comments?
Don't want comments, shut down that functionality. If you do want comments either moderate them or just deal with a few vulgar posts. And whatever you do, don't post the question "what is the grossest thing you've ever eaten" and not be smart enough to see the comments that are coming your way.
While the posts were a bit juvenile and the guy shouldn't have done it during school hours, they aren't noteworthy enough to cost a person his job. The most juvenile act in this story was the vindictive way the guy was hunted down. Sorry, but put it in perspective and realize it's just one little word.
It is also worth noting that the school didn't fire him, but that he quit on the spot... or so says the story, but that's irrelevant anyways. The guy had it coming.
Ok, we're all agreed the guy was an idiot idiot for posting at all. But he 'had it coming?' Really? Suppose instead he'd made two posts to slashdot in that time - a clear misuse of school property - would he deserve to lose his job then? What if he'd posted and reposted a critique on some sort of scientology blog - would he deserve to lose his job then? It seems to me that the reason this guy lost his job is because he violated the ridiculous community morals of a small town, not because of anything to do with misuse of school resources.
At one point in my life I seriously considered becoming a teacher, but I realized that doing so would likely place me at the mercy of the sorts of unthinking bigoted responses we're seeing here. This attitude is at least part of the reason our public education system is failing - the work environment is so unpleasant that (with the exception of a few saints) no one with another option for a career would do it. Would you really want to work beside people who are so shocked by a couple one word internet posts that you can't work with them anymore?
He only posted the comment twice... Have you ever posted a comment and not seen it appear, only to think that the request never went through and subsequently reposted the comment?
We will not share individual user information with third parties unless the user has specifically approved the release of that information.
I don't like Linux. This doesn't make me a troll.
In America at least, you cannot be arrested for saying something stupid or even treasonous on the Internet. But that's it. That is the sum total of your protection. You can't be arrested, that's all there is to it. You CAN lose your job, lose any prospect for meaningful employment, lose your wife, lose the respect of your family, friends, and co-workers.
Never write anything anywhere on the Internet, "anonymously" or not, that you would not want your wife, boss, friends, or children to read. Period. It's not difficult to understand, yet we continually find ourselves trying to defend these losers as if they are some kind of free speech champions. They're not martyrs, they're morons. Giving these guys an Anonymous Login is like giving them a bottle of Tequila. Sure, it's their right, but you hope they have enough self-awareness to know how stupid and ugly they appear after they indulge.
It's only vulgar because we have collectively agreed to consider it as vulgar. If we would just get over the idea that certain terms are vulgar, we could move on from having vulgarity and the childish bickering that results from its use in certain environments. "Fuck" is only profane if you keep considering it to be profane.
I don't agree with the idea that social taboo as a means of behavioral regulation is a bad thing. Telling teachers to behave in a manner that highlights to children how we would like the future generation to conduct themselves is not OMG CENSORSHIP, it's the process by which tribal savages become productive farmers, who become orderly towns people who become civilized nations.
I think the time for the moral majority is dying, and I'm thrilled. Keep your social taboos off my freedom of speech.
I also don't think people should be fired for shooting their mouths off in a venue unrelated to their job. I mean for god's sake, he wasn't even posting under his own name, his IP was traced. Even if it wasn't, why shouldn't teachers be allowed to express themselves? Shouldn't they be encouraging free expression, even if it's vulgar, between the test-prep sessions?
Okay, his post was fairly puerile and probably not the funny response he wanted. What the hell, sometimes you drop a bomb. It doesn't mean you should lose your job.
"All these years believing you're the signified monkey, only to find out you're just a big hunk of nobody cares."
I suppose I could've modded you overrated,but that wouldn't do much more than fan the flames.
Let's look at this from another perspective.A Meta perspective.
Was the man wrong for typing pussy into a WWW forum?
A. From the standpoint of being an employee, you bet he was wrong.
B.From a freedom of speech in an open forum that made possible his opinion/joke perspective, no he was alright. Moderation and site administration are the responsibilities of the site owner.
Now the new question, was the paper wrong for tracking the man down merely to take out their anxiety on, when they enabled him and many others to write whatever they like without scripted moderation?
A.If he were actually protecting taxpayers,children,business assets he would be right, but this isn't the case. He did it out of anger on newspaper time to grind his own ax and make his moderating job easier by denial of freedom of speech to someone that he didn't know posted from a school. Had it been me from my home and a confrontation from him had ensued, he would be getting his nose reset.
B. This is just outright being a snitch to aquire feelings of self righteous vengeance. Were I the fired man, I would expend my resources to have the snitch investigated for anything useable to make his life hell. Alert the IRS to possible living beyond his means. Complain to the neighborhood association about any infraction. Complain to the police about any unusual noise or parking violations in front of his house.
I don't think you can find any case of society accepting a snitch as a welcome factor to any community. In the micro society of prison they are eliminated immediately. In society we end up having to pay for witness relocation. In schools they are the kid taunted mercilessly till graduation and possibly beaten frequently.
This amounts to the paper baiting the man who would've posted from his home,were that his location at the time. Truthfully I hope he gets a good lawyer and starts working the snitch and the paper over.
Resignation is often offered to well loved and respected offenders at most jobs for fireable offenses. Since it was a school and a newspaper was involved of course he was offered the choice. DUH.
Should the man have been smarter? yes
Should the man have been fired? no
Should the newspaper be exposed by a meta story? Yes, but that won't happen, Newsclowns won't rat on newsclowns anymore than a cop will out a cop.
This wasn't news this was revenge and I hope the rat gets his.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
It doesn't matter whether he "had it coming" or not.
Contacting the school violated the stated privacy policy of the site, whether it was a student or staff. We're talking about a newspaper, for god's sake. A newspaper should be the first to stand behind their privacy policy. Reporters have gone to jail to maintain the privacy of their sources, and while the online equivalent of "letters to the editor" isn't quite in the same league as "Deep Throat", this was still unacceptable behavior.
The St Louis Post-Dispatch needs to step up to the plate and bat for their own goddamn rights. If they DON'T do something about this violation of privacy, they weaken their own ability to protect their sources.
It's only vulgar because we have collectively agreed to consider it as vulgar.
If the definition of vulgarity relies purely upon a social collective, then it's natural, and reasonable, for violations of such a collective to recursively deteriorate social structure.
"Fuck" is only profane if you keep considering it to be profane.
Is the action defined within a word an action you desire to covertly imbue upon your children? If so, then, by all means, most literally, spread the word. However, I know of few good parents who would approach the subject of sex lightly. Trusting a safe, civilized understanding of the world to surface within a child entirely through the context and connotation of vulgar language, and not overt explanation, is just asking for problems; kids already learn enough through observation to get themselves into trouble all the way through adulthood, why add insult to injury?
Actually, I agree with MrNaz. And consider this: a person with the intelligence and eloquence to artfully make their point without having to resort to the same bag of 10-15 words the rest of us overuse has proven themselves doubly - they've insulted you AND shown themselves to be more intelligent. Read Cyrano DeBergerac for some good examples of this. If your audience is too dim-witted to understand anything but "asshole" and "dickface" then they're probably not worth the time anyway.
For conscience is the wound, and there's naught to staunch it
I am amazed at the responses here on /. This is completely not about this moron's use of vulgarity. Of course he's an idiot, that's a given. More important is the fact that a paper gave what was supposed to be an anonymous poll with an obviously baiting question, and then used that information to track this guy down and ruin his life. In this case it was about some obscenities, but what's to say this couldn't have been about say, late-term abortion, or gay rights? Would you want someone tracking you down and exposing you over that information? Those topics are AT LEAST as enraging today as a couple of obscenities. The school employee was an idiot, but the guy at the newspaper is the one who should be arrested.
The man at the newspaper who tracked the ip address, and identified the poster, should be fired. A newspaper should not be in the business of discouraging free speech. If the comment was offensive, it should have been moderated before publication (assuming there's a published policy against posting offensive material).
I am just guessing at what the man said, but unless it referenced some criminal act, tracking him down and getting him fired is inexcusable. The newspaper should issue an apology, and give him a job with an equivalent salary and benefits for life.
My other sig is extremely clever...
School systems do not allow for any personal use.
So glad you're familiar with every school district on the planet.
Nope. Wrong. Aside from violating their own privacy policy, he (Greenbaum, the newspaper guy) went counter to the idea of anonymous commenting. If you want to be able to call someone out, don't allow anonymous posting. If an anonymous poster is being a nuisance (and one re-post probably should not qualify -- the poster could have assumed transmission error or some such) block his IP address.
If everybody put their money and their reputation where there mouths were, civilization might just lurch forward a little bit.
And where does a newspaper gloating about making someone lose their job for posting a single vulgar word twice on their site fall in there? I expect papers to have more ethics than that in a civilized society, so I think they've set civilization back a bit with this, not forward.
Actually a "truly free country" is an anarchy.
You need rules in human interaction and a combination of a few pretty important of said rules is "you do not hunt down and stigmatize someone for making a sexual joke".
I do congratulate you on your subtle twisting of words, though.
The position is a salary based position so the 'free' work you refer to is more task driven.
Sure, it's just a task that takes all day. If your wife only puts in 8 hours she's obviously not a teacher.
"may not access or download material from the Internet except for legitimate educational reasons" seems to be pretty clear to me.
"Staff may also use school equipment and networks for professional development and personal use which is both reasonable and appropriate to the school environment. This applies whether the equipment is owned or leased either partially or wholly by the school, and used on or off the school site."
Looks like you didn't read your own link.
Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.