Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft, Other Rivals Slam Google Chrome OS
CWmike writes "Microsoft is, predictably, not all that impressed by Google Inc.'s demonstration of its upcoming Chrome OS. 'From what was shared, it appears to be in the early stages of development,' a Microsoft spokeswoman said. 'From our perspective, however, our customers are already voicing their approval of the way Windows 7 just works — across the Web and on the desktop, and on all sizes and types of PCs — purchasing twice as many units of Windows 7 as we've sold of any other operating system over a comparable time.' But neither were potential rivals who make Linux and instant-on operating systems. Chrome OS claimed 7-second boot times and the ability to run Web apps within another 3 seconds, which failed to impress Woody Hobbs, president and CEO of Phoenix Technologies, a long-time BIOS software maker that has re-invented itself with a Linux-based instant-on OS called HyperSpace. 'Instant-on is about being able to access your Internet applications in one second. Seven seconds is too long,' Hobbs said. 'There is no such thing as "cold boot" for today's mobile PCs such as netbooks and smartbooks. You should be able to use your netbook like you use your smartphone — a press of a button and you are "on."' Mark Lee, CEO of DeviceVM Inc., said Google's favoritism towards its own browser and Web apps could rub some users the wrong way, especially those outside of the US. 'In China, users prefer Baidu, not Google,' Lee said. DeviceVM's Splashtop platform boots into Firefox within seconds and uses Yahoo or Baidu as default search engines instead of Google."
I was already contrarian in yesterday's Chrome thread. Some people are asking "Does Chrome OS Spell the End of Desktop PCs?" I think the thing that's in the most danger of being taken over by Chrome OS is slashdot. Some people will make some interesting builds, and it will be a lot of fun to play with. It's doubtful much more will come of it than that.
But of course Microsoft and their friends at Forrester and Gartner, PC World and news.com.com.com will be declaring it a greater threat to world peace than Scientology, claim it causes genital warts, say that it may damage both your computer and your self esteem. The funniest thing I've seen along this line is this one.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Not even google can please 100% of the people 100% of the time.
How is that different from any other company that has ever existed?
...it has NEVER been the most technically superior OS.
Is is the OS that runs all our apps.
Chrome and BIOS OSes do not change this.
Fast boot times don't matter if I have to dump my apps. Fast app launch times don't matter if I have to dump my apps.
Remember to halve any sales figures that Microsoft releases due to how they constantly misrepresent and mis-measure their actual sales.
Cory Doctorow talking about cloud computing makes as much sense as George W Bush talking about electrical engineering.
They are competing directly, but Google's friendlier. Google is making an appliance OS, where as SplashTop is designed as a light fast-booting OS.
But almost everyone is using a strawman (as Microsoft is). The point is not to replace Windows, it's an OS for web surfing. It's not for playing World of Warcraft, doing heavy photo editing, video editing, etc. Everyone is writing the "Google vs. Microsoft" article they want to write, instead of the tougher article about how Google is basically working to define a new class of computer (something of a netbook that's not running a general OS).
It's web-TV, but not on TV and not horrible. It's an email appliance OS that lets you read the web pages people link to in their emails.
It's not a direct shot at MS and Apple.
Gruber gets another one right.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
Has he booted a smartphone recently? It takes around 30 seconds for my Nokia smartphone to boot up. Of course, the point he's probably making is that smartphones are always on and therefore always accessible, but to achieve that surely you'd instead have to work towards reducing the idle power consumption of PCs...
You know, my first thought when I read "seven seconds is too long" was "you've got to be kidding" - but then I remembered how some of the people we support (academic faculty) have wasted hours of our time with complaints when their IMAP email messages were taking four seconds to open on one particular day instead of the usual one second... (and yes, that was a verbatim complaint).
#DeleteChrome
I haven't seen a recent smartphone that is on (and I don't mean, "displays something", I mean "fully usable") within 7 seconds. Even if you factor out the ID number input, 7 seconds is not too far fetched for current phones, overcramped with "features".
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
What other reasonable choice have they had for years?
One of the best versions of WinXP was the pirated TinyXP: minimalist yet flexible, fast to install, fast to boot, fast to run on lower-end hardware.
While XP could have been made more secure and remained useful for the next decade, it was doomed because it lacked Digital Rights Management capabilities and other measures to lock down the platform for content providers. How sad.
Now we must suffer through Microsoft Vista2 aka Windows 7. Farewell Microsoft.
And it "just works" on ARM processors? So "PC" should really be "x86-based PC".
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
'From what was shared, it appears to be in the early stages of development,' a Microsoft spokeswoman said.
Thanks for the advice but it's not a problem - I never buy any software from Google until the third release.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
The reason your customers won't be interested in Chrome OS as a replacement for 7 is the same reason pickup-truck drivers aren't interested in motorcycles as replacements.
It's scratching a different itch, although I'm a little skeptical that anyone's seriously itching hard for a minimal OS capable of running only a web browser.
"... Seven seconds is too long,"
what about the minutes people had to wait to start up their computers?
sure, it's nice to not have to wait so long now, but what is so crucial that someone has to be logged on in 7 seconds? is Facebook or fantasy sports that important? go twitter yourself or something while you sit through the tortuous boot time. or maybe just go grab a drink.
"To stop the terrorists."
If they're all so scared enough to give it this much attention, it /must/ be good.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
smartphone — a press of a button and you are "on."'
I don't know what smartphones they are referring to. My iPhone and my laptop are seldom 'off'. They both go into standby when i'm not using them, the times to come out of standby are very similar, and if I actually had to type a password into my iPhone to bring it out of standby the computer would beat it by far.
Has Mr Hobbs never turned a smartphone on from a complete off state? There is a negligible difference between booting my iPhone vs my Windows XP laptop. My old HP iPaq wasn't much different.
The companies that will take a direct hit when Chrome OS gets released commented that it will be bad. Amazing.
Anyway, there were some constructive comments. Saying that they should improve and boot in a second instead of 7, as they are actually doing, sounds to me like positive feedback. And if google or the community can't make boot Chrome as fast because of design choices, would be nice to have HyperSpace or SplashTop in normal computers/notebooks and chrome in specialized netbooks, the market is wide enough for all, and the consumers will win at the end. And, who knows, could be more feedback between all those fast booting linux all along chrome os development and advancements made in that area.
In other news, water is wet. More at 11.
'From what was shared, it appears to be in the early stages of development,' a Microsoft spokeswoman said. 'From our perspective, however, our customers are already voicing their approval of the way Windows 7 just works -- across the Web and on the desktop, and on all sizes and types of PCs -- purchasing twice as many units of Windows 7 as we've sold of any other operating system over a comparable time.'
Sounds like the typical politician in a debate. Half a meaningless thought on the actual topic followed by a string of promotional sound bites for the product they're selling.
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
I just don't get the point. Everything Chrome OS runs can already be run by any other OS, so why not just use some other Linux distro that's not restricted to web apps?
Tech blogs have been extrapolating from minor leaks ands rumours, generating the 'perfect' OS in their minds. When Google released what they think is going fill a niche - a smartphone on steroids - the tech blogs where crushed. Microsoft steps in to assure them that they will continue to have a hype cycle to satisfy their lust for ad revenue, and all is well in the Techblogosphere.
In three or four years, when you can only get Chrome OS on a netbook, the geeks will turn against Google as well. It will be the same fight that was fought for the desktop, but this time it will be Ubuntu that that people will say doesn't let you mount a hard drive out of the box, since it is only SSD, which will be too difficult for the 'common user', and the geek culture will implode on itself as it struggles with it's fanatical devotion to a dumbed down Linux and their realization that Google and Canonical are run by the same type of people that cause them constant strife in their underpaid IT jobs.
Either that, or like when Firefly was canceled, they will just go outside for a week, and wait until they are drawn back in....
-- I care not for your foolish signatures.
... it's part of their paycheck to not be impressed with anything let alone admit it to the media.
Do they use a press release response form ticking the checkboxes for all the usual lines?
Oh come on, Chrome is no threat to desktops, because people will still need their rich apps on high-spec hardware, therefore desktops will be still around as a do-everything machine. Partly though, because laptops netbooks and smartphones haven't killed desktops yet. I fear though, Microsoft has for a long time been making Windows a one size fits all requirements OS, the indentical OS gets put on netbooks to top end workstations. Chrome OS will appeal people who just want web and social networking and a bit of mucking around with their digital photos, but previously had to fork out for more than they needed in a laptop and desktop.
Having played around with the virtual machine images circulating, I don't think it's a threat to anything, but it looks pretty solid for a beta OS, but finally the ideal OS for the focused web tablet we've all been wanting for a long time. I also imagine the code could be rolled into existing linux distributions. It could coexist alongside other desktop environments ie KDE/Gnome, although I don't think Chrubuntu would be a very catch name.
Oh and it's Linux, open source, if it is lacking any features we will fix it okay?
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
I'm not sure what type of phone ol' Woody Hobbs uses... but I think that's kind of a flawed analogy at best. Over the years, my phones from a cold start have taken easily 5 - 10 seconds to post up (...and that includes the gracious amount of Verizon Wireless foo that flashes around at the beginning) Regardless of the pounding Chrome OS is taking, 7 second boot up time with instant access is killer. Really that's not any less/more than my Acer AspireOne + LinuxMint coming back up from hibernation mode. I'm really anxious to give Chrome OS a spin. Just like people argue for the sake of arguing, I think it's safe to say people also ridicule for the sake of ridiculing.
This is the first time I've ever said this, but with the release of Windows 7, Windows "just works". XP had plenty of bugs, Vista drove me to Ubuntu for a few years, and now with Windows 7, I've had very few problems. It's nearly none, but I had to run a few older games in XP compatibility mode and some proxification program didn't work because it lacked a 64 bit driver.
That said, I'm thinking that Chrome OS will "just work" too, but because it's functionality will be limited and hardware support tightly controlled.
Don't take life so seriously. No one makes it out alive.
Anyone who thinks that once Google perfects this, they're going to be content to simply sit idle on the cloudbook (I'm making that word up; consider it public domain) market with it is fooling themselves.
Google is also working on implementing 3D in the browser. They're also saying that for most features users use, Google Apps will be caught up with Microsoft Office in a year. They're also working VERY hard on developing a standard codebase to implement a desktop UI within a browser, and they're making very good progress.
Is Google overly optimistic? Maybe, but what company isn't? My point, though, is that they've got a LOT of really good things going for them. Don't dare think of Chrome as forever relegated to "OS-lite," or else you'll be making the same fundamental mistake that many other companies have made with Google. (And indeed, that a lot of them made with Microsoft in the past. "Oh, Internet Explorer will never catch up to Netscape." "Excel is like a scaled-down Lotus 123." "Our company has invested way too much in Netware to change." "Visual C++ is neat, but for serious development, go with Borland.")
It's really kind of fun to watch a company out-Microsoft Microsoft, except in a good way. As far as I'm concerned, I hope Microsoft continues to think of ChromeOS as just a toy that will never be a serious contender with Windows outside of very limited niche devices.
Richard Stallman says using cloud apps is stupid.
On comp.os.linux.advocacy, about the only thing the anti-Linux trolls and the pro-Linux trolls agree on is that they aren't trusting their data to the cloud, so Chrome OS is not impressive to them.
This story is posted as though it's surprising that companies would show disapproval towards their competitors products, claiming that their own are superior.
Can we please not post stories merely for the sake of finding another reason for people to bitch about Microsoft?
> Seven seconds is too long,' Hobbs said.
For instant on it is. FOr a quick boot it's ok.
> There is no such thing as "cold boot" for today's mobile PCs such as netbooks and smartbooks. You should be able to use your netbook like you use your smartphone -- a
> press of a button and you are "on."' M
My smartphone (HTC Touch Diamond) is nothing like that. From pressing the reset button (near where the stylus lives) to doing anything is around a minute. 7 seconds would be a massive improvement.
Does Google's OS include the BIOS in those 7 seconds?
My problem with the Google OS is I don't really want an OS with no hard drive and everything living on the net somewhere out of my control. I want to copy my photos onto my hard drive(s), convert them (from RAW) etc etc. I can't be doing all that over the net with 11 meg images, over a possibly slow, and definately hostile internet connection.
It's the fact that you need to reboot in the first place. The whole idea of rebooting is really getting old. There used to be a time back in the 50s when you needed to "reboot" (unfreeze and refreeze) your refrigerator from time to time, but we went past that. You don't "reboot" your TV or your Car (even though both are running internal software), why the fuck should you routinely have to reboot your computer?? Rebooting is warranted when a major system change is being made, in either hardware or software; but not for simply turning off the system. Yes, we already have sleep/hybernation modes, but they are still in their infancy compared to what they should be like. I'll consider them mature when, in the mind of Joe Sixpack, "turning off" his computer (so it doesn't make noise or eat electricity), either via shutdown or via simple external power cutoff, would mean an immediate going into passive mode, without losing the current machine's state. It'll probably require some internal capacitor to be able to save the memory and whatnot when there's no power, but this should be done automatically, silently, and transparently; for all intents and purposes (except, perhaps, hardware changes) the user should consider the computer as already having been turned off. Conversely, an OS should be able to run indefinitely, running _any_ task or combination thereof, without keeping clogging up memory with useless shit that isn't freed when not used anymore, which eventually forces a "hard" reboot. If anything, there should be a way to "purge" unused or dubiously-used memory, potentially shutting off some background processes, but without shutting off the OS or interfering with applications currently actively used by the user. Said Joe Sixpack would then consider this process as exactly meaning "turning off" and "turning on", continuing this process indefinitely (up to months and years if needed be), without any loss of performance on behalf of the machine. Finally, we live in a hot-plug era with many hardware devices, so why the fuck is so much software still stuck in the 20th century and requires to do a reboot to install (I shouldn't have to care about driver or concurrency issues in the kernel, as modern software should be sufficiently abstracted away from the hardware to be able to install user-level devices without fucking with the OS kernel). A "real" reboot should not be done except when it's actually needed in order to complete a _major_ system change (and installing any kind of user application doesn't count as "major" in my book). And when that happens, the time it takes to do a "real" reboot will be moot, as it would be done quite rarely, especially for the average user.
The idea of having the OS depend on the Internet is not too brilliant IMHO, but then I think a great limitation was to base it on linux... they should've taken something like Haiku instead.
I would love to see the demise of people making Access databases, Word forms and Windows only applications. My only concern would be media - I don't really want my games, mp3s, videos stored "in the cloud". Docs, emails are fine.
...Baidu prefers *you*!
Even worse: My Blackberry Curve was nagging me that it needed a reboot after a software installation, so I granted it permission. It took a full four minutes to get the login prompt (corp policy requires passwords).
Most people don't realize smartphones are on, all the time, even when they're "off." An actual cold start is pretty painful.
Learn to do paragraphs. Nobody wants to read your walls of text.
IMO the key selling points for chrome are:
1) Zero user maintenance
2) Security (the thing is even resistant against user-space malware), even Linux distros are years away from sand-boxing desktop apps
3) Simple UI
IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
What people don't get about Google's software is that they are not selling it. That's not where their revenue comes from. They can spend a lot of time getting the software right, refocusing it, tweaking it, getting comments. Microsoft by contrast has to come out with the big "impressive" release every few years to keep the company afloat. That's their business model. It's not Google's.
Look at Android. 18 months ago the cell phone execs were all saying that Google didn't understand how hard it is to create cellular phone software. The G1 got a lot of yawns. That reception would have been a disaster for Apple, but for Google it didn't matter, they just kept working on it. Today, Android is a serious competitor.
Whatever Chrome does or doesn't do can be changed. And maybe it will flop. That won't be a huge deal for Google as long as they get their advertising on the next generation of devices.
``Regardless of the pounding Chrome OS is taking, 7 second boot up time with instant access is killer.''
Still, we gotta be able to do better than that.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
It's something all unto itself. if anything is a rival, it is a smart phone OS, like Windows Phone or other rivals. To compare google OS to a desktop OS is like comparing a toy car to a Ferrari.
Me: I'll take ChromeOS for $100, Alex.
Alex: For $100, "specific segment of hardware that Google is aiming for".
Me: Who are people too cheap to spend $200 on a netbook?.
Alex: Right!
Me: I'll take ChromeOS for $200, please.
Alex: The answer is "it obsoleted ChromeOS a year before ChromeOS was supposed to be delivered"
Me: What is Droid?
Alex: Right again!
Me: I'll take ChromeOS for $400, please.
Alex: The answer is "Business".
Me: Who won't be using ChromeOS?
Alex: Right again!
Me: ChromeOS for $800, please.
Alex: They both don't let you run your apps your way.
Me: How is a ChromeOS-based computer like a Tivo?
Alex: Right again!
Me: ChromeOS for $1600, please.
Alex: The answer is, "100 times as much."
Me: How much more profit will Apple make off each computer it sells compared to vendors of ChromeOS-based computers.
Alex: Right again!
ChromeOS bonus question, "We welcome our cloud-based data overlords", "In Soviet Russia, Chrome browses YOU" and "You can have my data when you pry it from my cold dead hands."
Me: What were the three most popular ChromeOS privacy FAIL slogans?
Alex: Right! How much did you wager?
Me: All of it, Alex. There was no risk - everyone knows ChromeOS is Google's most famous flop to date.
Looks interesting => We don't give a shit.
Looks bad => Oh shit, we are screwed.
-- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
What if someone successfully develops something like a cloud service with Wine+NX and lets you run any and all Windows apps out in the cloud? If they get an acceptable framerate out of it that should put most "but my application X dont work" to shame. The only problem i can see is doing that through the browser and get fast enough framerates for games.
Im also wondering how much work it would be for Google to later on slap dalvik/android devkit onto the platform for local applications. Probably not that much i suspect.
While Google Chrome OS starts out on the small netbooks etc i dont think they will stay there if they succeed in getting a piece of the market.
The development that has lead up to this has been going on since long before Microsoft even discovered the internet. The whole browser war was about keeping applications tied to the local computers. Bill Gates and many other in MS said so themselves in discoveries during Gomes and MS vs. DOJ. The same goes for the Java poisoning. And now, trying to slip .net and silverlight out as X platform and then sneaking in platform dependant stuff.
The natural development is going right in Googles direction with Microsoft working against it for everything they can. Its like a pent up dam, once a trickle starts its not long until the dam breaks and our computing as we know it is radically changed in a fairly short timespan.
I think we have pretty interesting times ahead with much foulplay from a desperate Microsoft. They will stop at nothing to stomp Google to bits, absolutely nothing.
HTTP/1.1 400
Droid gives you more features and more convenience - plus you don't have to take 7 seconds to boot.
I'll admit I don't have a Droid - I have the G1 - but a 7 second boot would be far superior to what I experience.
What are people talking about with 'instant on smartphones'? The only thing 'instant-on' that I've seen is turning the screen back on. If you ever have to actually reboot the thing it takes at a least a MINUTE (haven't timed it, could be longer).
http://www.chaotickingdoms.com
It's actually why I've got ThunderBird's RSS thing set to only ever show me the summaries, and I click on from there, instead of loading the full article. It's far easier for me to click through each item I'm interested in, opening them in FireFox, -then- going on to read them (each article is then already loaded), then it is for me to click one item, wait for it to display in ThunderBird, read it, click the next, wait again, etc.
The only real difference is that 'wait'.. and yes, it's only 2-4 seconds - but it's a very, very annoying wait. If I could make ThunderBird pre-download the full articles, I would.
( if there's an add-on that does this, feel free to drop a link.. I'll search the add-ons site later myself )
I've lived in large cities most of my life and since 1995 have had readily accessible internet.
But this last summer and fall I spent my time at our family cabin in northern Wisconsin. Let me tell you, always connected means squat here (because it's just not an option - even dialup, particularly with the economy being what it is these days). OS stability means everything.
I've been able to work in the north woods just fine, knowing that I can drive into town and connect to the internet when I need to email something, etc.). But an OS that needs internet connection does me absolutely no good in these parts.
I suspect a large part of America would agree with me on that.
Not really. People will buy a crippleware smartphone for that before they'll spend money on a crippleware computer. don't have to buy a separate keyboard, mouse or screen, portable, always-on, can run local apps instead of downloading everything off the web every time, apps work offline, more local storage, can make phone calls, videos, etc., and just way more cool.
And the only people who will look at this are people too cheap to buy even a crappy $200 netbook or a smartphone. No advertiser is going to pay for clicks from them, so forget about subsidizing these boxes with revenue from search.
Business won't want it because there's some data you just don't share, not to mention desktop clutter and more time wasted synching.
This product is at least 3 years too late (and will be 4 years too late when it finally rolls out), and aims at a market nobody can make money with.
You should be able to use your netbook like you use your smartphone — a press of a button and you are "on."'
Maybe Phoenix shouldn't be bashing on Google in that comparison. I *wish* my Windows smart phone booted in 7 seconds. It's more like 30-45. It turns on, displays a retarded 8-second AT&T animated logo, continues booting slowly, pops up and asks for a password (but you have to wait 10-15 seconds before you can actually type because Windows is still loading), and then finally you're at your phone desktop. ...except none of the buttons work for another 10 seconds while even more crap loads.
Phoenix has bigger fish to bash over the head with a cluebat before they complain about Google and 7 seconds.
There's no place like
Microsoft aren't considering:
1) ARM version of Chrome OS - means $199 smartbooks instead of $299-$499 netbooks running Windows XP or Windows 7.
2) OS is free.
3) Actually Google might be offering a share of advertising revenue to manufacturers, as with Android. This means that the OS has a negative cost. We could see $149 smartbooks. Who is interested in a Windows 7 netbook at 3x the cost then?
4) Good enough for a second/cloud computer. Especially if it supports the "home cloud" with support for DNLA (media streaming) and other common home/office services.
However there are failings - firstly I think that Google need to make the OS Android compatible. I.e., installing the Dalvik VM and Android APIs by default. Android 2 allows higher resolutions. Android 3 will surely support resolutions up to smartbook (1024x600, 1366x768) and running an app as a tab within Chrome OS, allowing a unified platform. Surely therefore Chrome OS smartbooks will include multitouch displays...
Also Chrome OS 1 will surely be rough, like Android 1 and the G1. Droid is showing what Android 2 can do, and it's far more mature. Android 3 will probably be the first all-rounded and sweetly remembered variant. Android 4 will be good too. Android 5 through 7 will be dire.
It's for your friends and relatives who drive you mad with tech support questions. Send them a $100 box, tell them to switch the cables out, and get on with your life.
Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw bricks. Microsoft must have a lot of bricks, because Windows has been broken forever.
even in Virtualbox. The rest is rather disappointing though. It's just a full screen web-browser and nothing else. If you want more than that you'd be better off with Ubuntu Netbook Remix or another mini Linux distro. I would have much preferred a stable Linux build of the Google Chrome browser.
Chrome OS seems like exactly the thing that MS was fearing from Netscape during the first browser war: that Netscape's browser would somehow end up competing directly against Windows and therefor had to be crushed early.
Interesting position by MS. So, the fact that they've sold a ton of Windows 7 licenses somehow implies that IE is better than Chrome? Sure sounds to me like the kinds of things antitrust lawyers would be interested in hearing.
Personally Chrome hasn't done anything for me, but that's besides the point.
Easy enough to make it go in VirtualBox
Folks are making a big deal about this as though it were an OS. It's not.
It's a browser appliance.
When all you need is a browser that will boot from a little bit of flash memory, it's just the ticket. This is perfect for just about any public terminal. Also nice to have around so that when a family member's old windows machine gets all virused up or the hard drive dies you can just plug this in and get them back online.
It is very, very easy to use. Just log in with your google account, and you're in business. It boots and loads the browser from a read-only partition and is thus uncrashable and incorruptable. Embedding this on ARM daughtercard notebooks like Dell's Latitude ON machines could easily give somewhere north of 10 hours of wifi browsing time.
It's still very alpha at the moment (not too hard to freeze it), but it's got a lot of potential. I can see myself carrying this around on a USB key.
Oops, open mouth insert foot. They are talking about Chrome OS not the browser :)
They said nothing of the sort. They said customers prefer a traditional OS vs a browser-only OS.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
'There is no such thing as "cold boot" for today's mobile PCs such as netbooks and smartbooks. You should be able to use your netbook like you use your smartphone — a press of a button and you are "on."'
Cold booting a phone will not load in less than 7 seconds or will certainly take more than 10 seconds. Comparing a phone would be like comparing the Chrome OS coming out of hibernate and he is assuming that time is the same as a cold boot.
Not that it really matters, the 3G (or less) connection is the slowest part of smartphone computing and Chrome OS will unfortunately run into this problem as well.
Gee.
Well, I guess that's that, then.
This is "Bing" all over again. Personally, I hate it, but Microsoft *says* its better, and Bill Gates is the world's richest man so who am I to argue? It hurts, but it *must* be good for me.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
I had a look at google Chrome through virtualbox, and i think that the media is a bit to eager with the "ChromeOS: the next Win7 killer???" headlines. If you look at it that way, i think it's definatley not. It's not a replacement for any current desktop OS. And me thinks it's not intended that way. It's just a OS with everything stripped but the browser. If you just need a browser, it's OK. If you want something besides a browser it's not sufficient. So for a netbook it suits fine i think. Maybe even for joe-sixpack on a regular PC, but as soon as joe-sixpack wants to do anything more than browsing ChromeOS is not enough. It's comparing apples and oranges when you compare it with any regular desktop OS. Maybe the classification InternetOS instead of desktop OS (although i don't think google ever said it was) would be better....
If you don't like my sig then don't read it.
HAHAAAAAAAAHAHAAHAHAHAHA. I guess this guy has never really used a Smartphone that was off off? I had a Samsung SCH-i730 and SCH-i760 (Both WinMobile) which took a bit to boot and become useful, and now a Blacberry Storm. If the Storm is fully powered down, and I turn it on, it takes about 3 and a half minutes to boot up to the point of "I can make a call". What this means is if I go into some bathroom at a bar, and some drunk bastard puts moves on me, before I could power up and call 911, him and all his friends could run a train on my ass and be gone. Now what about this "push a button and it's instantly on" crap?
In Europe, Microsoft has to sell a Windows 7 [insert version here] E without any bundled browser..... I wonder how Google will get around this or will it be another double standard in this industry "just because".
PC's running Windows 7 with optimized BIOS set-up boot quickly but really, who cold boots a PC much anymore? I usually put mine in hibernation and it 'wakes' within about 10 seconds tops.
For a MS person to then argue that those Win7 sales mean that MS are brilliant at judging what their customers want ...
[=lost for words=]
Eric Baird
From Microsoft! LOL! These people are beyond parody. Are you describing Windows?
Do you have ESP?
Right now, if you have a choice between a "cloud" office suite and OpenOffice, then unless you have a special reason to want the cloud option, you download Ooo
A browser-based OS for netbooks that //requires// cloud-based office software makes GoogleDocs look less irrelevant.
Eric Baird
Yes, Microsoft is going to "slam" Google's Chrome OS. So what. Microsoft's bias is irrelevant. Chrome OS is Linux. Slapping on the Google name may get a few suckers to bite, but ultimately Chrome OS will achieve the same market share as any other Linux. And the few people who actually do buy it will be stuck with a tiny underpowered laptop with limited use.
Remember the "Internet Appliance", WebTV and dedicated word processors. Netbooks will end up in the same dustbin.
Neither Splashtop or Hyperspace can be installed on a non-Microsoft-licensed system. After repeated attempts to get a straight answer WHY from either of them, I am forced to consider any of their comments to be TROLLING.
CountFroggy
But who is actually impressed? I have no idea why I need to boot into a browser. I already have Linux and it already has a browser. Besides, it works offline without Google Gears crap as well, as running OpenOffice.org without that Google Docs crap, as well as running Firefox instead of Chrome shit, as well as I can customize it as I want instead of Chromium OS, as well as I can develop for it in any IDE I like.
Google looks to me like Oracle recently: they have great relational database (same as Google has great search engine) but then everything else is a plain crap, but very nice marketing.
If Microsoft could just figure out how to prevent restarts on software installs, the cold boot scenario would be almost pointless. in the 3 months between software installs, I have not rebooted my PC a single time, and it always comes out of standby quickly.
Reducing cold boot time from 30 to 7 seconds just isn't a feature most users will see value in *if* Microsoft could just kill most of the scenarios where one would need to cold boot.
Until recently, along with your telescope, mount, tripod and imaging gear, as well as dew strips and controllers, you lugged a full-sized laptop out into the field, various USB hubs and cables, plus a power source for it (usually a big heavy auto-type battery and inverter), and a table or three on which to set it all up.
The laptop had to be covered by a box or similar, unless you enjoyed draining the dew out of it the next morning, not to mention being sworn at by other amateur astronomers when the dazzling unshielded glare from your laptop screen blasted their night vision.
Now you just slip your netbook into a jacket pocket. They are easily fast enough to run telescope control, planetarium and imaging apps, along with Photoshop or whatever else you may need or want to use.
And soon astronomers may discover that even netbooks may be replaced by do-everything cellphones.
[quote]
Instant-on is about being able to access your Internet applications in one second. Seven seconds is too long,' Hobbs said. 'There is no such thing as "cold boot" for today's mobile PCs such as netbooks and smartbooks. You should be able to use your netbook like you use your smartphone — a press of a button and you are "on."' Mark Lee, CEO of DeviceVM Inc.
[/quote]
I'd like to see a smartphone that boots in one second. Since the phone is already *on*, the netbook will be at a disadvantage if it has to be booted first.
I've got better things to do tonight than die.
Tom,
There have been some challenges in defining the differences, but Chrome OS is not an operating system. It's a distribution that includes the Linux operating system that adds its value in the user interface space. The underlying operating system is Linux. Chrome OS is a shell.
Its scope is every environment the base OS applies to, and that's going to stretch from the firmware of your wireless router to the TOP500. Its target market is grandma, but it's open source to the point where builds are now available for every Virtual environment and we're not 48 hours in yet.
In short by opposing something that's not yet defined, you're destroying your cred.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
I left windows for this exact reason, I went to Linux. What I use to do and what I do now are totally different. I dont need 1000 services and a million other pieces of shitty software just to do the things I need to do. I listen to music, and go online. Everything I do is Internet centered. I need something that I can type the ocassional txt file, watch hulu, check email and work online. Chrome hit everyone one of those things on the nose, I would like some more control but it does what it is designed to do. And it will get better this is just what alpha? If that? I dont plan on making the switch, but if I can slap chrome on peoples machines that need just to get online check email etc. Then chrome hits the nail on the head.
Visit my Forums?
their approval of the way Windows 7 just works
So, Microsoft is now imitating Apple's moniker. Of course, it's b.s. from both Microsoft and Apple: when you buy their systems, you get an OS and a bunch of accessory applications. You then need to install the application software you actually want to use. And then you can get ready for being pestered constantly by applications that want to update themselves, security warnings, and all that other crap that comes with desktop OSes.
Google is making money with Ads, which will never go away, as long as google search is superior. So, this affords Google massive profits to tinker with.
1) GoogleOS is an Alpha release, many look at it and think, oh it's just a browser. Well yes it is, but Google is making the browser able to Run games (WebGL and NaCl), ajax apps using HTML5 for word procssor/spreadsheet/mail (you name it) replacements.
2) Google will iterate and refine GoogleOS much like Android. Right now, it is fresh and something so beyond what people are normally used to, that it seems Novel.
3) Everything is moving to the Web as in WebApps. I don't care what anyone says, all Apps given 10 years will be running in a Browser. Not Todays browser, no, Im talking about Browsers that can do 3D (webGL) dirext access to the CPU and GPU (games), very rich and compelling apps using HTML5 and Canvas tag.
4) Javascript will be 20x faster in 5-10 years, Native Client will be made more portable friendly, which means most all Open Source Libraries will be ported to run with Native Client. Right now, Glibc is being ported ( although just the beginnings and not without many issues), but once GTK QT and the major open Source Libraries are ported to Native Client, they will be able to run in the Browser.
Solution to the 'Cloud data and privacy' problem.
1) Google already Encrypts the Local SSD drive. So, if people are not buying into it because of fear of data probing, then Google and the OS community will simply Synch the Encrypted data.
2) The ability to retrieve all your lost data, after a laptop theft or crash, and then ReSynch is a Huge convience. Anyone will agree to that.
3) anyone that says, 'Well someone can still decrypt any encryption. Well, if that were the case no one would be doing online banking due to all the TLS and SSL problems. No, it just gets fixed and we move on. If the Internet disappears tomorrow, I think the economy would suffer, so people are using personal data on potentially hackable mediums, already. Plus, if Google I seriously doubt Google will be trying to hack into peoples private synched, and encrypted data. If so, lawsuit!
Obviously ChromeOS cannot replace a real OS, and you can say a lot of bad things about Windows, but it is an OS and not just a glorified browser. But wouldn't it be neat to have an instant-on glorified browser until the real OS is done booting, and switch when you need to do some real computing? Cold-booting Windows can easily take several minutes, if you measure the time from hitting the power switch to real idle state (no HDD access, negligible CPU activity). Mr Hobbs is right in that ten seconds is far from instant-on, but I'm sure those ten seconds can be reduced further.
because I have found an existing need. SHE is my mother-in-law, and it's the perfect solution for her, because she can browse, but can't seem to do anything else worth a damn on her computer. GoogleDocs and internet-mail for her, is 100% of her required feature set. End of story. And some remote network devices have been fully configurable using browser interfaces for a long time already, I don't see any reason why an interface can't be built for the trivial items left that my mother-in-law maybe *might* want to reconfigure on her new machine.
Google is NOT solving a problem that doesn't exist. Google is CREATING a new market with a new product, just like we saw with the iPod phenomenon.
Someone gonna come hit you with the clue stick soon - this is going to be MASSIVE.
People are totally missing the point here on slashdot. I think this will be a huge hit with the people that are still computer illiterate, or have a hard time learning standard computer functions (elderly come to mind, as well as 3rd world residents). I see that Chrome OS will likely make things a whole lot easier on people with its basic functionality.
For all those people that want to roar back with, "they can just get a mac." Go shove it. Mac isnt the best in productivity and not everybody can afford one. Even though Macs OS is pretty polished (read pretty), it is still not as simple as what I have seen with Chrome OS. And yes I have compiled it and ran it.
PC's running Windows 7 with optimized BIOS set-up boot quickly but really, who cold boots a PC much anymore? I usually put mine in hibernation and it 'wakes' within about 10 seconds tops.
That pesky 'patch tuesday' keeps requiring me to reboot my employer's windows boxes every few weeks...
There's no place like
Google states that Chrome OS will run only web apps and is designed primarily for Netbooks. So this means that wireless access must be available for free or at little cost everywhere. Now consider that Google is coming with it's own phone soon. So since Google owns a lot of dark fiber, perhaps they will trade network access with the cell phone companies.
I did a little test and found out that my WinXP boots up in 24 seconds, whereas my Nokia E71 smartphone boots up in .... 30 seconds.
Last time I saw a cell phone boot up immediately after pressing the power button was probably in 2001.
When Steve Ballmer dismisses Apple it is really like a kid who pulls the cover over his head and repeats over and over "there are no monsters under the bed, there are no monsters under the bed".
And he is right. Steve Jobs is in the closet.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
PC's running Windows 7 with optimized BIOS set-up boot quickly but really, who cold boots a PC much anymore? I usually put mine in hibernation and it 'wakes' within about 10 seconds tops.
That pesky 'patch tuesday' keeps requiring me to reboot my employer's windows boxes every few weeks...
With Win7 the updates very seldom seem to require a reboot, so perhaps that is getting better as well.
" 'In China, users prefer Baidu, not Google,'"
Clearly he hasn't used Chrome, else he would know it graciously asks you what search engine you want to use before you start, defaulting to your OS's default (which is normaly microsoft)
Chrome OS was even demoed using microsofts web-apps, not Google.
Ok... so, there I am. Having a PIII Sony Vaio notebook with 128 mb and my mom, a user that has not been on a pc since like the MS-DOS time.
She wants to e-mail and do some browsing. If possible watching some photo's. That's it for here.
Let's review the OS market at this time:
- Windows:
Windows 98: ow... can't do that anymore. NO GO
Windows 2000 can run on this machine, sloooowwwww... and way too complicated. MAYBE HALF A GO.
- Mac OS X: can't run it, not an apple. NO GO.
- Linux:
Ubuntu (Netbook Remix): Not even able to install it. 128mb seems to little. And remember: the Ubuntu CD is 780mb.... way to big to burn on a 700mb disk! NO GO.
Xubuntu/Kubunut: same story NO GO.
Knoppix: Doesn't like the fact that the CD-player on a sony vaio is via pcmcia... NO GO.
- HyperSpace: ah, that will cost money. NO GO.
- DeviceVM's Splashtop: uhn... it's not a new PC, so it's not supported... NO GO.
- Google OS: ah... so there is a market. PROBABLY A GO if hardware is supported correctly.
Is impossible to be impressed with Chrome OS. Is just a linux that start a browser in 7 seconds. Well... is a achievement, but not a earth breaking one.
The comment from Microsoft.... is infuriating, ..his last shit of a OS, Windows 7, hardly will run on my netbook. My netbook got released with 512 MB of RAM, and 4GB of hard disk, has not moving parts and runs fantastic. Windows 7 for all I see, need more than 600 MB to run, and about 10 GB of hard disk for himself. Heck.. his design waste screen space like is a feature or something. If theres a OS that is NOT optimized for netbooks is the Windows 7. Probably is one of the good windows, and is followed by a bad one, so we can probabbly say "best than Vista", and let it here. How can somhome be so intelectually malicious, lack any moral sense, to suggest than Windows 7 is anything good for netbooks? The guys a liar the size of texas, but how a guy can tell lieas that big, knowing everybody know are lieas.. He has not shame? ridiculous and sad.
Most, maybe all, Netbooks release with windows are released with XP. This microsoft dude is stupid or a liar, maybe both.
-Woof woof woof!
If Microsoft could just figure out how to prevent restarts on software installs, the cold boot scenario would be almost pointless.
I updated my display driver (for a Radeon 5850) under Windows 7 last night; it didn't require a reboot. The problem most certainly has a solution.
It's official. Most of you are morons.
Maybe I missed something but I thought ChromeOS was for desktop computers with full sized keyboards and all, and Droid was for little cell phones with little tiny keyboards.
Would anyone like typing in a one page memo on their cell phone?
Let the PC get its zen on, for chrissake!
Nobody mentions TV sets and yet they seem to be a quite natural hosting hardware for a network-centric OS. If Google manages to get to those with Chrome OS then everything else will be trifles in terms of commercial return. I would be very surprised if Google is not talking to vendors about this.
Is it just me or are all these companies being a little quick to pounce on Google for this one?
'Instant-on is about being able to access your Internet applications in one second. Seven seconds is too long,' Hobbs (CEO of Phoenix Technologies) said. 'There is no such thing as "cold boot" for today's mobile PCs such as netbooks and smartbooks. You should be able to use your netbook like you use your smartphone -- a press of a button and you are "on."'
It takes my android phone a good minute to boot up and load the OS. I'm pretty sure palm and blackberry are just the same. The only reason our smartphones are "instant-on" is because they are already "on" and just standby.
IMAGE VERIFICATION IS EVIL!
Microsoft is in danger of seeing its products become less of a benchmark to aim for - more like a mile market to pass.
Microsoft did an impressive job of seizing Unix market share from Novell file servers and Unix servers & desktops in the 1990's.
They had a few strategies:
1. Offer cheap file serving without user limits
in desktop OS to get rid of Novell which had
high price tag and user limits.
2. Price significantly lower than Unix systems.
3. Hang a "legacy" label on Unix systems.
4. Push Office applications as reason to get OS.
This is one take on the Windows vs. ChromeOS rivalry: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9135288/Google_s_Chrome_OS_poses_long_term_threat_to_Microsoft
I agree that the battle is hypothetical now.
However, having watched a number of technology niche takeovers, I noticed something. The challenging products that are game changers usually overtake an overconfident incumbent by offering blatant advantages such as these:
* price
* maintenance/operation costs (TCO)
* graphics quality & system performance
* expandability
* ease of use and user empowerment
Linux and perhaps ChromeOS blow away Windows on the first 2 points
Graphics quality & performance will depend on the systems Google management selects/allows to run ChromeOS on. At a whim, almost - they could make it very high performance. Of course, apps and/or utilities have to take advantage of it to get it used but they might already have started the process of fostering those.
Expandability of a ChromeOS cloud client computer is going to offer virtual resources so local ones will be less important. It is conceivable that a Mac or Linux/Windows PC with a scanner in your home or office could be configured as a resource providing a scanner service - accessed via a URL or a web service API via negotiation with the cloud or tunneling through it
Nothing revolutionary there and it keeps the ChromeOS cloud client simple, flexible, and cheap. At the same time it allows the user to capitalize on their existing OS. Security is the tricky thing. Jini finally created a decent scheme for that for Java applications but it took time. UPnP has been been problematic and it let cybercrooks take over systems. Google has advantage of being able to look at past things that worked and failed and avoid going down wrong paths.
Empowerment for office app suite users already exists. Google has their web based word processor, spreadsheet, etc. Running on Linux lets them harness Open Office if they wish, as well, though they might not want it running inside ChromeOS for security & archicture reasons. Does not matter
Virtualization can be seamlessly integrated onto a desktop allowing apps running under two OS to coexist, even to the point where their windows overlapp each other.
Ease of use is largely a degree of how smooth Google does the GUI design. HCI is far ahead of were it was a couple decades ago, yielding a lot of sound principles, software mechanisms, and hardware devices. Microsoft, by no means, has ever had a corner on the market of ease of use.
Malware has really messed up ease of use for users. It is not really safe to use a Windows system carelessly, and caring to keep a Windows system safe takes a lot of work. Individual users who relied completely on iT department to protect them have lost a personal fortune after being blamed for the actions of malware. Take the man who worked for Massachusetts, for example, as well as school teachers in the US & UK. Their use of the computer for business, ultimately, was not easy on them.
Simply using the computer to do online banking has proven incredibly costly for some companies and churches this year. They lost tens to hundreds of thousand of dollars. Their OS got compromised and malware embezzled a fortune.
Surprisingly, increasing security does not seem to be a game changer. At least in the past it has not.
Let the PC get its zen on, for chrissake!
Apple only licenses Mac OS X for sale on Macintosh. Violating software license is usually regarded as a copyright violation. Violating software/music/etc. copyrights is usually regarded as piracy and it has a high criminal/civil penalty.
Getting software "free" off of torrents, especially illegal software, is a good way to get Trojans installed on your computer. In fact, people who have done it recently have been the only ones to get onto botnets, get infected with worms that asked for money and stole data, etc. on certain platforms.
There is no honor among thieves and pirates are thieves.
The credentials of the people supplying the "hackintosh" hacks are not really known by the public. They could get lured into downloading a gaggle of their wares and then get a backdoor and then a worm, as has already happened with other OS hackers.
Most people don't want to dabble in this and hand over control of their systems to pirates and anyone who knows the mistakes pirates have made with their wares, by accident or on purpose.
Let the PC get its zen on, for chrissake!
Little delays have a big impact when they occur frequently and during moments of concentration. What if your keyboard took one second to respond to each key you pressed? And then waited another second to register the next key? You probably wouldn't have much fun typing up an email and waiting three minutes for all the letters to register, just to find that you made a typo in the first sentence and need another two minutes to correct one mistake. And you'd probably lose your train of thought before reaching the second paragraph and forget to tell your coworker that one very important reminder that would have saved them an extra day of work. Would it be worth ten minutes of your time Googling around and finding how to fix your computer?
So an increase from one second to four seconds isn't just three seconds, it's four times longer! And if that delay occurs while you're in a frame of mind that you only attain for an hour a day, that's another factor of twenty-four to count. Little delays when you're working intensely are a big problem.
Huh... really now..
Also, not that I'm interested in 'yet another webOS', but i find it sort of interesting that all the big players are slamming this so quickly. Are they scared?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Anon. Coward wrote:
No one gives a flying fuck about your toy OS, oldfag.I could say the same about Linux or Mac or Windows. But I'm not a little kid anymore, and don't feel the need to insult people. Let us all know when you grow up little coward.
--
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
The Menuet OS is faster and simpler than Linux or Haiku or other full/blown OSes, so they could save some firmware space. Since google is targetting specific hardware, the limited driver support in menuet doesn't really matter (it only supports AC97 audio, etc...).
The reason they didn't choose these alternative OSes is because they are targetting ARM.
Everyone keeps saying that this isn't a competition between M$ and Google because they server different customers... Personally, I don't like the Google OS because: * The people who everyone claims could use the Google OS (grandparents, techno-idiots) want to do a lot more than we give them credit for. Most of those people will want to plug-in cameras, iPods, etc. The other people (i.e. grandparents) can't see a netbook screen or keyboard, much less try to use it. Most older people want big keyboards and big screens. Try showing your Grandfather who has trifocals how to maneuver a 12" screen.... * This idea of no hard drive. Linux people tout "open source, so what's the problem?" -- do you want the Google OS to go down that path? Linux is an abysmal failure on the desktop because of the technical difficulty AND because the distros that aren't difficult, they get pushed aside because the others are (read: Linux is just scary!). I don't trust anyone with my data...not Google, not MS, anyone. I want to store my kids pictures, my MP3's on my hard drive...not Google. What do I do when my ISP decides to go down for a couple of hours, which leads me to: * The world isn't fully connected to the internet yet...a lot of people (even people in urban areas) have no access to internet because of costs and area coverage...you are screwed if you want to use this.
I normally change distros every few weeks but Ultimate Edition may have changed all of that. It is simply too good to foresee anyone having a better distro for quite some time.
I also burned the latest Knoppix DVD which is almost 4 gigabytes in size and it is really a great distro as well. If people are not using these distros they darned well should be as they seem to be better than anything anyone else has to offer.
There's a new equalizer this round that keeps Google honest: Open Source.
They're fueling open-source development (which is true for all of GP's technologies). If after Microsoft they threaten data security or other freedoms then someone will make their own netbook for the same price that's running Chromium with 3D, Cloud Desktop, etc just by copying the source legally.
If they close-source things to change this, then you're already a reader on the right site to hear about it.
Science & open-source build trust from peer review. Learn systems you can trust.