Slashdot Mirror


US Air Force Buying Another 2,200 PS3s

bleedingpegasus sends word that the US Air Force will be grabbing up 2,200 new PlayStation 3 consoles for research into supercomputing. They already have a cluster made from 336 of the old-style (non-Slim) consoles, which they've used for a variety of purposes, including "processing multiple radar images into higher resolution composite images (known as synthetic aperture radar image formation), high-def video processing, and 'neuromorphic computing.'" According to the Justification Review Document (DOC), "Once the hardware configuration is implemented, software code will be developed in-house for cluster implementation utilizing a Linux-based operating software."

33 of 144 comments (clear)

  1. Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Maybe someone should tell them the new ones don't run Linux.

    1. Re:Wow by shivamib · · Score: 2, Funny

      So much for a Beowulf cluster, then.

    2. Re:Wow by Rik+Sweeney · · Score: 3, Funny

      They already know they don't run Linux, they just to play Uncharted 2 and Demon's Souls.

    3. Re:Wow by AbRASiON · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's a genuinely good point, I wonder if Sony would help them out on this or if they are getting the old one or what?
      I don't have much of a use for linux on mine TBH, it was far too goddamn slow (and I'm no linux guru) it really does need 1gb or more of ram, then she'd be fine.
      That being said, sucks for researchers who wanted this.

    4. Re:Wow by TheDarAve · · Score: 5, Funny

      Its the Air Force, it'd be an Airwolf cluster.

    5. Re:Wow by TheDarAve · · Score: 3, Funny

      I just had a scary thought of instead of using linux, they just program a "UAV flight game" and leave them in various Air Force recreation centers.

    6. Re:Wow by Sebilrazen · · Score: 3, Funny

      Ala Last Starfighter?

      --
      "There are no facts, only interpretations." --Friedrich Nietzsche.
    7. Re:Wow by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 3, Funny

      So. Just in time for Xmas. The Airforce of the United States is depriving children of consoles at the peak of season?

      That's 2,200 children who will wake up, sad and dissapointed - with a boxing day that brings only an electric train set, or an iPod touch.

      I weep for the dead children in Afghanistan and the empty stockings of children on the American home front.

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    8. Re:Wow by wagnerrp · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you check out the fbo.gov link in the article, it says they are purchasing units of the CECHP01 SKU, which is a 160GB/65nm variant of the old style which still offered OtherOS support.

    9. Re:Wow by kriston · · Score: 3, Informative

      Did we read the proposal linked from the article? It specifies PlayStation 3 model CECHP01 which does, indeed, run Linux. I wondered, though, how successful they are going to be at finding 2,200 units. Distributors are running out of new/old stock of this model, as many compute cluster builders are trying to get them before they're all gone.

      Here is the proposal for those who didn't actually bother to RFA:
      https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=bac60f8808fa1e221597573901a7cd6b&tab=core&_cview=1&cck=1&au=&ck=

      --

      Kriston

    10. Re:Wow by PReDiToR · · Score: 2

      You're right, but never let the truth stand in the way of a good old Slashbot whine.

      Sony deserves the moan though. Surely as time passes and parts get cheaper because they are still buying them in quantity the costs lower themselves. Sony (the arseholes) shouldn't need to keep taking parts out of their boxen and then selling them for the same price.

      DRM and this. Remind me why we bother with Sony at all?

      --

      Do not meddle in the affairs of geeks for they are subtle and quick to anger
  2. Loss for Sony? by SlothDead · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Since Sony's strategy (like Microsoft's) is to sell the consoles below production costs and make money on the games I guess that they are now pretty angry about organizations buying PS3s solely for computing...

    1. Re:Loss for Sony? by RogueyWon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is only true for the start of a console cycle. By this point, Sony and MS should at worst be breaking even on console sales and probably having a bit of profit. Component prices fall dramatically over the course of the typical 5-year console cycle.

    2. Re:Loss for Sony? by DJRumpy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      [Citation Needed] "Except that Sony is not selling them below production costs. It costs them about $250 apiece to produce."

    3. Re:Loss for Sony? by DJRumpy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And yet not one of these Links is based in fact. They are all best guesses.

      Just because something sounds good doesn't make it fact.

      The FACT is that Sony doesn't release their Production costs and never has. They could be getting substantial savings in bulk (or not). Quoting someones best guess isn't good enough and shouldn't be presented as fact.

    4. Re:Loss for Sony? by timeOday · · Score: 2, Insightful

      [Citation Needed] "Since Sony's strategy (like Microsoft's) is to sell the consoles below production costs and make money on the games..."

  3. In the future... by Braintrust · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...processing power will be purchased in units of physical volume.

    These units will be named something clever. They will come in different flavors.

    They will be designed as components; primarily used to comprise a greater whole.

    --
    Years later, a doctor will tell me that I have an I.Q. of 48, and am what some people call "mentally retarded".
  4. Cell processor by Xest · · Score: 2, Insightful

    We keep hearing these stories, and the reason is that the Cell processor is awesome for this type of work.

    Are we still at the point where we can't get hold of Cell processors for machines specifically designed for this sort of task? Isn't the PS3 a rather inefficient way of doing this rather than a purpose built system or grid of systems, or does it come down to cost in that a purpose built system would just cost far more than a bunch of PS3s? 2200 PS3s is still going to cost, what, half a million?

    Presumably it's not because they use the GPU as well because AFAIK Linux on the PS3 doesn't allow access to use the graphics card, or are they getting custom PS3s?

    There does certainly seem a big market for Cell systems so the future of Cell certainly seems promising in this respect.

    1. Re:Cell processor by huge · · Score: 3, Informative

      Are we still at the point where we can't get hold of Cell processors for machines specifically designed for this sort of task?

      I haven't checked the details yet, but I was told that IBM QS21 is Cell based blade system

      --
      -- Reality checks don't bounce.
    2. Re:Cell processor by emilper · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They would buy Cell processors, but then then it would take an year and a half for the papers to be processed, six month for IBM and Dep.Def. to spec the systems, and about two years while competitors contest the order ... everything costing about 10 times as much for one half of the computing power, and would not be able to run much else besides floating point calculations.

      BTW, has anybody tried DwarfFortress on a PS3 ?

       

    3. Re:Cell processor by umghhh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I suppose if they ordered a system designed specifically for their purpose it would cost a dozen millions more on top of this half that you mentioned and then they still had to do in house software stated in the summary. So indeed they saved some - even if you consider all the military expense a nonsense anyway it was still half a mil wasted instead of a dozen.

    4. Re:Cell processor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Didn't you hear? IBM have effectively killed the Cell.

      End of the line for IBM's Cell
      IBM has revealed that the Cell processor line is an evolutionary dead-end. Some of the ideas behind it will live on, but the Cell family itself will not
      Ars Technica

    5. Re:Cell processor by Nerdfest · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Nearest I could to a price find on that is about $7000. That will buy more than 20 PS3's. (Although the QS21 is a more powerful machine, with 2 cell processors).

    6. Re:Cell processor by STFS · · Score: 2, Informative
      I'm not sure this data is valid still but according to http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2008/11/putting-the-ps3s-brain-to-work.ars there is a huge difference between a PS3 and a QS21 blade in terms of price/performance... in favor of the PS3!!!

      Since most academic research groups are not overly flush with cash, the authors put these results in terms that someone holding the purse strings would understand. It terms of computing power per cost, the PS3 delivers 50,000 LUPS/dollar, the super high performance IBM QS20/QS21 runs at 3500 LUPS/dollar, while a quadcore desktop machine is capable of putting out 17,000 LUPS/dollar.

      However, there seems to be the issue with the memory though:

      The researchers point out that LB simulations take a large amount of RAM and, when moving to a three-dimensional simulation, the amount of RAM will become very important. Since the PS3 has only 256 MB of RAM, even moderately sized 3D grids could end up being written and read into swap memory, which would be a significant performance bottleneck.

      --
      You don't think enough... therefore you better not be!
  5. Re:Why buy the whole PS3 by AlecC · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Because at this scale, buying mass market complete systems is much cheaper because of the economies of scale. Parts sold as spares and replacement are priced much higher than complete systems.

    --
    Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
  6. Black Friday Deals! by upto0013 · · Score: 5, Funny

    They should wait for Black Friday, nobody is going to fight the Air Force for a doorbuster...

    1. Re:Black Friday Deals! by MichaelSmith · · Score: 3, Funny

      Except the Army?

    2. Re:Black Friday Deals! by jank1887 · · Score: 2, Funny

      SOF got in there the night before.

  7. Not much stopping them really by ciroknight · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is the US Government we're talking about. One of the few entities on the planet where "Budget" is virtually meaningless. Someone sneezes funny and a million dollars goes out the door. How much do you think it'd cost to financially compel Sony to enabling Linux installs on their machines? Exactly how much does a PS3 dev-kit license cost again? How hard to do you think it'd be to get a judge to sign some order compelling Sony to releasing the schematics to the US Government under NDA, so that they can write and maintain their own Linux loader for the machine?

    Even if the cost of the above was in the lower 8-digit range without the machines included, which I really doubt, it'd likely be cheaper to source these machines than it would be to develop your own hybrid compute node and software for it (or nVidia's crazy-expensive, less mature solution).

    Sony doesn't support Linux on these machines, which makes it practically impossible for the home user to boot Linux on them. (Well, tbh, 'improbable', look at how much reverse engineering has happened with the GameCube & Wii). But for someone with deep enough pockets, like say a government agency, it's almost trivial.

    --
    "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
    1. Re:Not much stopping them really by DJRumpy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sony is not an American company, but I'm sure they were more than happy offer up a boot loader considering how big a customer the the US government could become if they were given a little courtesy. I doubt the would have to resort to threats.

      As to the budget, it is not meaningless. They can be shut down without a proper budget, unless you missed the California meltdown, and all of the drama when it came to funding our troops. Budget and government are always very real hurdles.

      I think it's more likely that someone at Sony saw the potential for a very large customer and supplied it without the need for any threats.

    2. Re:Not much stopping them really by jeffmeden · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If the budget really isn't in question, wouldn't they be looking into the blade server version of the cell processor, you know, the one that powers a good many of the supercomputers on the top500 list? As it is, this is PURELY a budget decision. Playstation 3 units at $300 per cpu node beats the HELL out of $1000-2000 or more per node for the conventional computing version. Add to that the fact that Sony still takes a loss on every PS3 unit that goes out the door, meaning it's basically a Sony subsidized supercomputer for a fraction of what a legit one would cost. This is nothing more than a well publicized exercise in unconventional supercomputing on a shoestring. Hats off to the Air Force, I for one am looking forward to some nice pictures of row after row of glimmering black PS3s with heat ripples coming off of them.

  8. Amazing! by bytethese · · Score: 2, Funny

    I didn't know Skynet was made of PS3's...

  9. Federal Govt Shutdown Is Highly Unlikely by BenEnglishAtHome · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They can be shut down without a proper budget, unless you missed the California meltdown, and all of the drama when it came to funding our troops. Budget and government are always very real hurdles.

    You're talking about the federal government and, technically, you're right. About every decade-and-a-half or so, Congress gets the budget so fouled up that the President refuses to sign a continuing order to keep the government working. At that point, the government technically stops. All non-essential personnel are let go. It's happened twice during my 27 years with the government.

    However, I don't think it'll ever happen again.

    Statutorily, to do a shutdown, all employees must receive notice in person and in writing. If the fed is going to shut down tomorrow, every single employee gets contacted today and told to be at the office in the morning to receive their formal notice. The law requires it.

    That means that every single Special Agent on stakeout is pulled off of surveillance to come to the office to get their letter. Every Special Officer, Revenue Officer, every sort of officer, agent, analyst, tech, etc., ad infinitum must all show up at the main office at the same time.

    The fed employs a huge percentage of people who actually visit their office in the downtown federal building (wherever that may be in your city) just once or twice a year. But at budget shutdown time, they're all there. The halls are packed with people because there's just not enough room for them to all sit down.

    Keep in mind that this in-person notification, with everyone at the same place at the same time, is an absolute statutory requirement.

    Now, in this post 9/11 USA, who'd be crazy enough to do this? Any half-assed attempt at setting off a bomb or flying a plane into a building would, at about 8:30 on the morning of a shutdown, kill more badge-toting feds than any normal-day method I can conceive short of a nuclear option.

    I really don't think the feds will ever shut down again. Seriously. It's just too crazy to contemplate these days. The last time it happened was well before 9/11 and plenty of people in the government, even during those relaxed times, commented on what a huge and idiotic security risk it was. I sincerely doubt we'll ever do it again.