Slashdot Mirror
Air Cannon Ties Pirates In Knots
Hugh Pickens writes "Numerous high-tech devices have been proposed to help ships cope with piracy on the high seas. Now a company has developed a ship-borne launching device that fires a net or coiled rope into the path of pirate vessels using compressed air with a range of up to a range of 400m. The payload net or rope, which has a parachute attached to the end, will unravel and lay out across the surface of the water so that as the pirate boat travels through the water its propeller shaft will pick up the line and become entangled. 'With the trials and testing we've done, it has taken us some 45 minutes to cut and disentangle the line from the propeller itself,' says Jonathan Delf. 'Within that time of course, the target ship is on its way and hopefully help has arrived in the form of naval forces or helicopter support.' The system can be fired up to five times off just a cylinder of air like a simple scuba tank." The video mentions that the device can also fire a payload of golf balls. The systems have recently been sold to "several large shipping companies that travel near the oil-rich Nigerian Delta, which, like the Somalian coast, is rife with piracy."
Just shoot the fuckers already. Pretty soon there won't be any more of them.
I think the number of pirates would be reduced if the shipping vessels had small autocannons mounted on them. No jalopie fishing trawler can take a burst of 35mm AP shells for very long. Problem solved.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Are we really that politically correct now that even killing a pirate is wrong?
Pirates. Not a down-trodden minority.
Kill them. All of them.
It's the right thing to do.
Years later, a doctor will tell me that I have an I.Q. of 48, and am what some people call "mentally retarded".
What is going to keep the pirates from using something like this to their advantage?
The same thing that keeps car thieves from slashing the tires of cars they plan to steal.
Self defense its self is politically incorrect these days...
Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
No, but most countries aren't going to let your ship in their waters let alone to dock in their ports if it is loaded out with machine guns and torpedoes.
And shooting fisherman whom you mistake for pirates in generally frowned upon.
Err, the massive propellers that most cargo ships use make trying to foul one useless? Unless that rope you're using is 20cm thick or better, good luck with fouling a prop whose average diameter would often dwarfs the pirate's boat entirely with room to spare. Hell, good luck fouling the prop by ramming your entire boat into it for that matter...
Maybe you meant the golf ball cannon option? Umm, okay - you only have to get the balls up 5-10 stories high, not counting superstructure, let alone the bridge. RPG's are probably more plentiful than golf balls in that part of the world, and tend to be a lot more portable, methinks.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
It also won't work against pirates riding trained sharks, which you're about as likely to see.
I like the idea that the "good guys" can use expensive high tech to "stun" the bad guy's vessels, but if I were a captain of a ship being raided, I doubt I would prefer gumming up their motors to blowing them out of the water. Not only that but if you just mess with the pirates equipment they will just go on to do the same again later once they repair it. Sure the helicopter support might arrive in time and kill all the pirates, but at that point why not just kill the pirates from the boat int he first place?
It would seem like a limited lethal weapon system mounted on the transports would be the most efficient option.
Cool art gallery, if you're into that sort of thing.
Before you attempt to kill them, you have to be certain that they are a pirate. Legally certain, not just Slashdot certain.
Fouling their prop doesn't require quite such a high standard of proof, and gets the job done, at least till they get their hands on some jet boats.
It's also not too smart for a pirate to escalate from a small disabled boat -- if someone on that ship had some means of firing back, that could only be deployed against proven pirates, well, you just gave them proof.
Just shoot the fuckers already. Pretty soon there won't be any more of them.
If it's always clear weather, and daytime, and all the boats have transponders so that you never make errors in identifying which boats are pirate and which aren't, that might be reasonable.
If you are, say, reliable 99% of the time... and, say, one boat out of two hundred is a pirate-- you'll be shooting two innocent fishermen for every pirate.
And it's always harder to identify the bad guys in the real world than it is in the movies.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
No.
There's no trick to it.
If you're approaching a large commercial ship of any kind, plying its trade in the waters off the coast of East Africa, and you continue to ignore the many and varied warnings to do otherwise, you deserve to get shot. The innocent people you're concocting out of thin air for the sake of juvenile, devil's advocate, argumentation... is breathtakingly naive.
I have a feeling you're a part of the Confetti Generation.
Years later, a doctor will tell me that I have an I.Q. of 48, and am what some people call "mentally retarded".
Yeeeeah. He was... fishing... at night, in stormy weather, a thousand miles off the coast of Somalia, but within 300 yards of the only merchant ship within 50 nautical miles.
That's the ticket.
The tipoff would probably when they start coming at you with highspeed boats (they only use slower larger "fishing boats" as motherships, they need small highspeed boats to catch their prey) and start firing warning shots with machine guns and RPGs.
The real reason they are not using real weapons against the pirates isn't because the couldn't be sure they were shooting the right people, but rather because docking at ports becomes much more complicated legally when you are carrying weapons.
"linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
How difficult would it be to equip ships with Browning M2 .50 machine guns and man a watch for incoming pirate vessels. The Browning M2, with an maximum effective range of 1.2 miles, could turn those pirate skiffs into driftwood long before the pirates were in AK-47 or RPG range. Shoot em full of holes and leave them for the sharks; when word gets around the piracy doesn't pay, the pirates will forced to give up or be killed. From all appearances the pirates are in it for the money so they will give up if piracy doesn't pay; after all, dead men tell no tales and spend no money.
Queue the 1/2" kevlar rope! A quarter mile of the stuff ought to do the trick. The worst part about lines jamming the propeller is that the line gets coiled up in the space between where the propeller and the hull meet, and the motion causes the prop to pull the propshaft out of the boat (with the engine attached). This causes what's called a "through hull hole", aka an "oh shit!" circumstance, wherein the boat sinks as the engine room fills with water. The rope doesn't even have to be particularly strong to do this. This isn't as big of a problem for outboard motors (what the pirates use) but it does cause problems for them with fouled props, etc.
moox. for a new generation.
A cheap, simple, easily fabricated cage around the prop solves this for the pirates.
Design it so the rope/net just slides below the prop. It'll add some drag, slowing them down a bit, which may help, but a larger engine solves that.
Just another corp' making money from fear, while providing no real protection.
Q: So - you saw the boat approach. It had people inside and you could see they were armed. They opened fire with warning shots over your boat. You looked through the scope of your rifle at the shooter. What did you feel?
A: The recoil of my rifle.
If I was in a 30ft yacht or a 500m container ship, if someone approached my ship on the high seas, I would be VERY wary, and the instant anyone tried anything rash, I would instantly perforate them with overwhelming firepower, especially if I was in a small boat, as I would feel much more vulnerable. If I'm in a small private boat, I am NOT in the mood for taking visitors in the middle of the ocean of any size or variety and would consider ANY such visitor a threat. If I am in a giant commercial ship, I am ONLY interested in properly flagged and responding government vessels coming for a visit. The rest are either pirates or Darwinbait.
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
You're confusing "judge and jury" with "self-defense". If you come at me shooting while holding an innocent in front of you, I'm probably going to shoot back. Guess what - if I shoot and kill the innocent you (not me) get the associated murder charge. You murdered the innocent by putting them in a situation where they could reasonably be expected to die by your actions.
So they had water cannons, noise makers, and now a flippin' rope cannon? Give those ships real guns with real bullets already! These pirates mean business. Any resistance these pirates meet is often returned with lethal force. Giving in to them and paying ransom is just calling for more of the same. Pay the Danegeld and you don't get rid of the Dane.
These ships need to have weapons that can match or surpass what the pirates have. Bolt a 25 mike mike to the deck if you must. Some little ship comes screaming up to your ship with guys carrying machine guns and rocket launchers shooting at you then its weapons free. They understand return fire. Make it too difficult to be worth their time and the piracy will stop.
All of this less than lethal crap has got to end. Give those ships real guns with real bullets!
Yep, I'm a bit perturbed over this. All this politically correct crap is getting people killed.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
Yeeeeah. He was... fishing... at night, in stormy weather,
... in eel-infested waters ...
John
If I commandeered a shipping vessel and if I had a choice between (1) some flying rope that can be shot out of an air cannon and (2) on-board artillery like a machine gun (or something that can blast a hole in an on-coming vessel), I would rather choose the artillery. The problem with this flying rope is that it might enrage the pirate, and he might aim his artillery at you and also signal for assistance. If his comrades arrive at the scene, then your flying rope will not stop the thugs from putting a bullet in your head.
I would too. Unfortunately, many countries into whose ports (and hence sovereign territory) you might with to sail might take issue with a cargo ship with a machine gun on it. They might even insist that you receive clearance as a military vessel or put other bureaucratic hurdles in the way. Remember, any delay costs you at least $50k an day in lost time, aside from the actual expense of dealing with it. It would be nice if there was a uniform agreement on the armament of cargo ships that exempted such things from local law* but there just isn't. A ship that makes multiple port calls is going to need to hire a lawyer from each country just to ensure compliance.
* For instance, if you were a crewman storing a rifle or pistol in your quarters while making a stop in the lovely Port of Boston, you would be guilty of possessing a firearm without a license. I'm sure the authorities aren't keen on enforcing that law but that such conduct is technically criminal since there is no exemption.
Are we really that politically correct now that even killing a pirate is wrong?
Oh you can kill them but there are a few things to consider first:
That said if you can shoot them dead, I'm pretty sure no one will mind. Provided you are in international waters AND you can prove your case that you didn't just murder someone AND you can explain why your ship is armed AND you can somehow figure out a way to kill a group of pirates that out numbers yours and is probably better armed.
I don't know about you, but being an American I would rather take my chances in a gun battle with the pirates (a rail mounted Browning M2 heavy machine gun would be very useful against pirates armed with AK-47s and RPGs fired from small skiffs) than be taken as a hostage back to Somalia where any Americans will almost certainly be turned over to the local Islamic militias and beheaded. In fact, after the incident with the Maersk Alabama the Somali pirates have already threatned to do just that.
Most of the people doing the actual "pirating" have been pushed to it by their government. The source of the problem isn't greed, it's necessity (with a decent payoff, too).
No, Somalia hasn't had an effective government in almost 20 years. If they had, there would be police and coast guard and someone to answer for the pirates. Territories are controlled by warlords, plain and simple.
They may have been pushed into piracy by their local warlords - by the lack of government, if you will, but not by the Somalian government.
But no matter why they became pirates, they are still pirates, and they deserve the same fate as pirates throughout history. Swift, irreversible justice. Doesn't matter if they're volunteers or conscripts, on drugs, just kids, old fishermen, or whatever -- they've all proven themselves by heading out to sea to commit murder. For each pirate sent to the bottom of the sea, the people back home become a little more scared, and a little less willing to head out on another attack.
The sea is a lot more brutal and less policed than Central Park, and things don't turn out nice and neat like a cop booking a mugger.
John
Before you attempt to kill them, you have to be certain that they are a pirate. Legally certain, not just Slashdot certain.
As a general rule of thumb, there are three things that need to happen before deadly force is justified:
Pirates approaching a boat armed with AK-47s have met all three of those variables. They have the ability and opportunity to do the crew harm and have demonstrated an intent to do so. Under the laws of most nations you are entitled to respond with deadly force in such a scenario.
Fouling their prop doesn't require quite such a high standard of proof, and gets the job done
Yes it does. You can't just disable boats on the open ocean and leave their crews at the mercy of the sea and elements.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
You foul their props at 400m, they'll punch a hole in the side of your cargo vessel with an RPG at 400m easy as pie
"Consider how lucky you are that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far
In the 1700s and early 1800s, the solution to piracy was for British (and later, American) warships to hang pirates immediately when captured. And to not be too picky about capturing them instead if sinking their vessels. It's time that our Wimpy-In-Chief grow a few stones and return to the tried-and-true measures. Pirates are lazy cowards; they're in it for the money. Make it not only unprofitable but also NASTY dangerous, and they'll find other lines of work.
The US military has alread killed the pirates out of necessity; the United States has a long term policy of not negotiating with terrorists, hijackers, or hostage takers. Appeasment only makes the aggressor more aggressive and paying ransoms is not good long term policy. The horse is out of the barn on this one and Americans should avoid capture by Somali pirates at any price. Remember that it is the Somali pirates who are the villains in this business, they attacked first and the US Navy responded in kind. They got what was coming to them.
Greetings and Salutations...
If all of you chicken hawks REALLY think that blasting pirates out of the water is the best option, I would suggest this:
1) Band together (facebook is a good option).
2) Pool your savings and buy a freighter (lots of them parked now, and available for cheap).
3) Join the crew, and bring your biggest guns along.
4) Cruise the Somolia coast a few times and have fun blasting the pirates.
5) PROFIT!
Now...do not be too surprised if, after the second or third time you blow a group of attacking pirates out of the water, you find yourself
visited by support ships with RATHER larger guns.
Pleasant Dreams
Dave Mundt
YAB - http://blog.beemandave.com/
But fishing line is a big problem in protecting marine animals; it seems like intentionally stranding hundreds of yards of the stuff might have some negative impacts on the surrounding aquatic life.
I'd go with a different approach. A tightly packed array of 50x50 green lasers with a calibrated spotting scope on it. Optionally, protect the person manning the laser station with bulletproof shielding. When you see an obviously hostile craft approaching, everyone on the friendly ship dons their protective eyewear which blocks out the green laser frequency in case of any bounce-back. Then spot them through the scope and flip the switch and pan across the whole ship. Makes them nice and blind.
After that, the crew can follow up with a little napalm or ship-mounted flamethrower. A sulfuric acid cannon would be pretty sweet too. Or a few remote controlled .50 cal turrets with armor piercing bullets setup to pin each vessel in a crossfire. Or these mounted on the bow and stern of the ship setup to be armed when enemy vessels approach: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP6GpAnmAPU
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
I don't understand why everybody is hung up on this fear of 'making mistakes'. Why is it every time that somebody suggests arming potential victims somebody else comes along and starts worrying about friendly fire? It rarely works out that way in the real world. It's even less likely in a maritime setting.
Just stop and think about it for a moment. Small craft do not follow merchant ships around for no reason. They have a pretty good incentive to steer clear of them. When approached, the merchant ship will respond with a hailing device. If it's some innocent situation then this fact will be discovered fairly quickly. If the small craft is filled with guys armed with AK-47s whom match every change in course then it's a fairly safe assumption that they have nefarious intent.
Putting arms in the hands of the good guys does not turn them into trigger happy nutjobs that kill random innocent people at the slightest provocation. The three concepts that I outlined above are standard operating procedure for police departments and armed civilians around the world. This isn't rocket science.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Fortunately he found the only found the only merchant ship within 50 nautical miles and was sailing to it to ask for help.
With a rocket launcher?
The convenient thing about being a pirate, is that you tend not to give a fuck about laws..
which is totally what she said
Having been in the military - The number of people willing and able to kill other people, even when you're in mortal danger, is still fairly low, and those who ARE willing and able usually go home with significant issues to deal with.
Some ships will have crew members willing and able to use lethal force against pirates, but the GP still has a good point.
Queue the 1/2" kevlar rope! A quarter mile of the stuff ought to do the trick. The worst part about lines jamming the propeller is that the line gets coiled up in the space between where the propeller and the hull meet, and the motion causes the prop to pull the propshaft out of the boat (with the engine attached).
My pirate ship is equipped with a bow-mounted motorized spaghetti twirling fork, arrr!
Set your phasers on "funky"!
"Just another corp' making money from fear, while providing no real protection"
when you stop thinking, and depend upon stereotypes of behavior to describe the world around you, you defeat your own ideology by making yourself look brainless. fact #1: prop fouling is a valid tactic that works, and you say as much in your own comment. fact #2: there are real threats in this world, such as pirates off somalia
are pirates off somalia baseless fearmongering by big media to scare clueless fools... or real entities? then what the hell is "Just another corp' making money from fear" suppose to mean? pffft
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Pirates are lazy cowards; they're in it for the money. Make it not only unprofitable but also NASTY dangerous, and they'll find other lines of work.
And what ther lines of work are they going to find in Somalia? The pirates are mainly ex-fishermen, but the fishing grounds have been destroyed by overfishing by foreign factory ships and by foreign dumping of toxic waste. It's a subsistence area, so there's no other work. Are you going to let them move to your country to find work? If not then they have a choice of crime or starve, and you're never going to make it "nasty dangerous" enough to put off the person who would starve to death otherwise. As for stories of pirates making a fortune out of piracy -- well, you can bet they're not the ones at sea risking their necks; they're the ones on land with a nice chain of plausible deniability to dissociate them from what's happening at sea.
Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
Pirates are not covered by the Geneva convention.
From now on, whenever you think "lethal weapons on civilian ships would stop piracy", I want you to consider that this is the same as "lots of armed Chinese marines in Los Angeles Harbor would stop piracy". Then put yourself in the shoes of a President trying to push some kind of international convention permitting that.
Thank you.
# cat
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
Quote: "fire a payload of golf balls"
Do you yell "fire" or "four" before you trigger this weapon?
When will you yanks learn that just throwing guns at a problem always makes it worse not better.
When you bring guns, they just bring bigger guns. And bombs and missiles. Just remember, pirates aren't going to give a crap about the same rules that limit what firepower a legal vessel can carry.
You start firing back, the pirates will just tool up with bigger guns and perhaps with RPGs etc. They will also reduce risk to themselves by shooting first instead of giving the crew a chance to surrender. They could just adopt a strategy of sinking boats first then taking whatever survivors a.k.a hostages are left from the sea.
Explain how is that better?
"When will you yanks learn that just throwing guns at a problem always makes it worse not better."
You're so right. After all, guns did nothing to stop the Nazis. If the crews of the captured ships just sat down nicely with the duly elected pirate representatives and met their perfectly reasonable requests to kidnap you and take your ship and cargo then I'm sure any remaining survivors would walk away happy.
"When you bring guns, they just bring bigger guns. And bombs and missiles. Just remember, pirates aren't going to give a crap about the same rules that limit what firepower a legal vessel can carry."
Yes, and before you know it all the pirates will have nuclear dreadnoughts and orbital particle cannons. Oh the humanity!
Or maybe they'd realize that getting shot and drowning at sea is a lot more likely than getting rich. And, being poor and unable to buy the latest Stark Industries weapons technology from the local Pirates R' Us, they'd find something better to do.
Hey, maybe I'm wrong. Either way, your suggested strategy of letting violent criminals do anything they want because stopping them might make them angry seems, well, unproductive.